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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 6, 2024 11:38:15 GMT
This season reeks of relegation. Poor squad, poor sprit, new inexperienced manager, supporter apathy / grumblings, out of touch board, lack of leaders. I think we need to take a deep breath, Saturday was a shit show but if you take Schumacher's tenure as a whole one bad half against Sunderland and a drubbing by the league leaders isn't that bad. Yes we need to start putting our chances away, and yes our home form is a worry but I think he needs to pick a formation, players in their rightful positions and play on the front foot like we did in some of his earlier games. The return of Tchamadeu, the new Dutch lad and Ennis with a weeks training under their belts will hopefully give us the shot in the arm we need. If we get nothing from our next 2 games I'll share the concerns, I expect us to get 4 points minimum so time will tell.........
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 6, 2024 11:54:54 GMT
I doubt our wage bill is huge. I imagine we’d still do comparatively okay on attendance. We’d likely sell players like Bae et al, recoup money lost. Generally do little of note. Fall into a malaise because no one at the club wants to push forwards. The fans were bored before, nervous now and would be despondent in league one. Most people realize that Stoke is just a part of, and not their entire life. There wouldn’t be some sort of riot. People would just generally feel like crap for a while then reset. Stoke City Football Club has published its accounts for the year ended 31 May 2023. total income £31.2m wages and salaries (all staff and players) £30.1m Wages down £7.3m from the previous year. You recognize that about 2 of the players that were at the club on those wages are no longer here?
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Post by independent on Feb 6, 2024 16:04:04 GMT
what is "about 2 players?" Remember we have also signed Pearson on a 4 year contract and gone begging to Clarke,so I'm sure that he is on a good whack. Either way 70% of £32m is £22.4m and that is recognised as the correct % of your income that should go on wages. If we went down, I imagine our income would also go down as we would at least get less from the Premier League money. MON and the Coates family did very well to sort out our finances in 3 years, we just need to not repeat our previous mistakes. Some people on here complained that MON had too many players contracts ending in June last. We always had the option to re-sign them. Would you rather go down into League One with all your players on Championship contracts. Now that would be repeating a past mistake.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 6, 2024 16:41:07 GMT
what is "about 2 players?" Remember we have also signed Pearson on a 4 year contract and gone begging to Clarke,so I'm sure that he is on a good whack. Either way 70% of £32m is £22.4m and that is recognised as the correct % of your income that should go on wages. If we went down, I imagine our income would also go down as we would at least get less from the Premier League money. MON and the Coates family did very well to sort out our finances in 3 years, we just need to not repeat our previous mistakes. Some people on here complained that MON had too many players contracts ending in June last. We always had the option to re-sign them. Would you rather go down into League One with all your players on Championship contracts. Now that would be repeating a past mistake. Yes our income would take a hit but relegation clauses with appropriate wage reductions are pretty standard fayre in football contracts in this day and age and being as we’re in the bottom half for a sixth consecutive season I doubt it’s so unthinkable it hasn’t ever crossed anyone’s minds to make sure they are present in the contracts we offer.
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Post by rambo61 on Feb 6, 2024 16:45:52 GMT
I think we'll just about survive but it will be a nervous run in no doubt - if we do go then no-one will be truly surprised and we couldn't really argue that we didn't deserve it in the face of several years of gross mismanagement and wanton negligence from the very top since relegation (and a year or two prior actually.....) - it would be a disaster for the club and the City as we'd probably end up in with Vale, Shrewsbury, Burton Albion and possibly even Crewe & Stockport County - along with a few "sleeping giants" Wigan, Weds, Bolton, Blackpool, Barnsley - nightmare stuff indeed.......or maybe it would be a fantastic nostalgic blast and we could all relive the nineties and noughties.....I think not..... the bright side of relegation...some fantastic away days there!!!👍
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Post by skip on Feb 6, 2024 16:56:04 GMT
I think we'll just about survive but it will be a nervous run in no doubt - if we do go then no-one will be truly surprised and we couldn't really argue that we didn't deserve it in the face of several years of gross mismanagement and wanton negligence from the very top since relegation (and a year or two prior actually.....) - it would be a disaster for the club and the City as we'd probably end up in with Vale, Shrewsbury, Burton Albion and possibly even Crewe & Stockport County - along with a few "sleeping giants" Wigan, Weds, Bolton, Blackpool, Barnsley - nightmare stuff indeed.......or maybe it would be a fantastic nostalgic blast and we could all relive the nineties and noughties.....I think not..... the bright side of relegation...some fantastic away days there!!!👍 There is no bright side to relegation. We must not allow ourselves to think this. Fuck League One and all who sail in her.
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Post by J-Roar on Feb 6, 2024 17:06:53 GMT
the bright side of relegation...some fantastic away days there!!!👍 There is no bright side to relegation. We must not allow ourselves to think this. Fuck League One and all who sail in her. Bang on. It's soul destroying enough in this league losing to shite teams, never mind even shiter teams in the 3rd tier
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Post by fraybentos on Feb 6, 2024 17:26:07 GMT
We already have the manager for promotion, forward planning
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Post by baconburger on Feb 6, 2024 17:26:40 GMT
There is no bright side to relegation. We must not allow ourselves to think this. Fuck League One and all who sail in her. Bang on. It's soul destroying enough in this league losing to shite teams, never mind even shiter teams in the 3rd tier Favourite season of my forty odd years winning the third tier under Lou. I wouldn’t wish to return but neither would I accept playing scared football in some morbid attempt to avoid it. Play the football the head coach has been bought in to implement and deal with the outcome.
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Post by J-Roar on Feb 6, 2024 17:31:37 GMT
Bang on. It's soul destroying enough in this league losing to shite teams, never mind even shiter teams in the 3rd tier Favourite season of my forty odd years winning the third tier under Lou. I wouldn’t wish to return but neither would I accept playing scared football in some morbid attempt to avoid it. Play the football the head coach has been bought in to implement and deal with the outcome. Agree. It was a great time. The others seasons down there were pretty dire though. Getting trapped in that league is an awful prospect.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 6, 2024 17:32:18 GMT
what is "about 2 players?" Remember we have also signed Pearson on a 4 year contract and gone begging to Clarke,so I'm sure that he is on a good whack. Either way 70% of £32m is £22.4m and that is recognised as the correct % of your income that should go on wages. If we went down, I imagine our income would also go down as we would at least get less from the Premier League money. MON and the Coates family did very well to sort out our finances in 3 years, we just need to not repeat our previous mistakes. Some people on here complained that MON had too many players contracts ending in June last. We always had the option to re-sign them. Would you rather go down into League One with all your players on Championship contracts. Now that would be repeating a past mistake. Apologies, I meant only about two. It’s more like 5 anyways, or however many we started with at the beginning of the season. The point was that we have no idea what our wage bill is currently because previous statements are drawn on an entirely different squad, manager and coaching staff. I also imagine that everyone has relegation wage drops embedded into a contract. Would the finances take a hit? Quite likely. Would there be some sort of riot at the mishandling of the club (which was what my point initially was about). No, I don’t think so.
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Post by anchorman on Feb 6, 2024 17:33:27 GMT
How about playing winning football or at least not losing football....The football of the last 8 years has scared us all to death!
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Post by baconburger on Feb 6, 2024 17:34:10 GMT
Favourite season of my forty odd years winning the third tier under Lou. I wouldn’t wish to return but neither would I accept playing scared football in some morbid attempt to avoid it. Play the football the head coach has been bought in to implement and deal with the outcome. Agree. It was a great time. The others seasons down there were pretty dire though. Getting trapped in that league is an awful prospect. Hey I’d far rather we worked out how to score goals against teams at this level.
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Post by anchorman on Feb 6, 2024 17:35:48 GMT
Favourite season of my forty odd years winning the third tier under Lou. I wouldn’t wish to return but neither would I accept playing scared football in some morbid attempt to avoid it. Play the football the head coach has been bought in to implement and deal with the outcome. Agree. It was a great time. The others seasons down there were pretty dire though. Getting trapped in that league is an awful prospect. The getting promotion part was brilliant, the rest of it was excruciatingly painful. The fact that we're even in this position is criminal.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 6, 2024 17:37:19 GMT
what is "about 2 players?" Remember we have also signed Pearson on a 4 year contract and gone begging to Clarke,so I'm sure that he is on a good whack. Either way 70% of £32m is £22.4m and that is recognised as the correct % of your income that should go on wages. If we went down, I imagine our income would also go down as we would at least get less from the Premier League money. MON and the Coates family did very well to sort out our finances in 3 years, we just need to not repeat our previous mistakes. Some people on here complained that MON had too many players contracts ending in June last. We always had the option to re-sign them. Would you rather go down into League One with all your players on Championship contracts. Now that would be repeating a past mistake. Pearson needs taking out of the squad and putting on a fitness plan to get back in shape, if he's as good a pro as previous managers of his have alluded to he'll acknowledge that his current state isn't acceptable and work hard to rectify it. If he sees his arse then it reflects more on him than anyone else.........
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Post by anchorman on Feb 6, 2024 17:38:29 GMT
Agree. It was a great time. The others seasons down there were pretty dire though. Getting trapped in that league is an awful prospect. Hey I’d far rather we worked out how to score goals against teams at this level. That's great, but until we work out how to out score teams, or even score a goal we need to keep it out at the other end of the pitch otherwise we're dead & buried..
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Post by kidcrewbob on Feb 6, 2024 17:41:52 GMT
I think we'll just about survive but it will be a nervous run in no doubt - if we do go then no-one will be truly surprised and we couldn't really argue that we didn't deserve it in the face of several years of gross mismanagement and wanton negligence from the very top since relegation (and a year or two prior actually.....) - it would be a disaster for the club and the City as we'd probably end up in with Vale, Shrewsbury, Burton Albion and possibly even Crewe & Stockport County - along with a few "sleeping giants" Wigan, Weds, Bolton, Blackpool, Barnsley - nightmare stuff indeed.......or maybe it would be a fantastic nostalgic blast and we could all relive the nineties and noughties.....I think not..... the bright side of relegation...some fantastic away days there!!!👍 Indeed, summon the spirit of those heady underdog days of our 1st season in the Prem where we did *every* away match on Marts bus (as I think you were too with Simon and the other guys?) - the best season ever in my book as a supporter despite getting beat most of the time - the first win away at WBA, our draws at Anfield, Villa park and Newcastle and the win at Hull to secure our Prem status will live long in the memory despite the ale!
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Post by baconburger on Feb 6, 2024 17:44:53 GMT
Hey I’d far rather we worked out how to score goals against teams at this level. That's great, but until we work out how to out score teams, or even score a goal we need to keep it out at the other end of the pitch otherwise we're dead & buried.. Great if you can keep it out without throwing more resources into defending. You don’t remedy a scoring problem by diverting resources to the other end of the pitch that just leaves you destined to be perennial low scorers but then you find that kind of thing acceptable.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 6, 2024 17:46:44 GMT
We already have the manager for promotion, forward planning With a better squad than he has now.
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Post by HarryTheHat on Feb 6, 2024 18:05:06 GMT
the bright side of relegation...some fantastic away days there!!!👍 There is no bright side to relegation. We must not allow ourselves to think this. Fuck League One and all who sail in her. You must have hated the Macari and Stein era then?
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Post by HarryTheHat on Feb 6, 2024 18:06:26 GMT
Favourite season of my forty odd years winning the third tier under Lou. I wouldn’t wish to return but neither would I accept playing scared football in some morbid attempt to avoid it. Play the football the head coach has been bought in to implement and deal with the outcome. Agree. It was a great time. The others seasons down there were pretty dire though. Getting trapped in that league is an awful prospect. Agree, but in fairness the occasions we've been there - we haven't stayed around for long
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Post by anchorman on Feb 6, 2024 18:22:24 GMT
That's great, but until we work out how to out score teams, or even score a goal we need to keep it out at the other end of the pitch otherwise we're dead & buried.. Great if you can keep it out without throwing more resources into defending. You don’t remedy a scoring problem by diverting resources to the other end of the pitch that just leaves you destined to be perennial low scorers but then you find that kind of thing acceptable. It’s very simple. If you can’t score you need to make sure you don’t concede because you’ll lose, which you seem to find acceptable. And if you can’t take your chances due to shit strikers, or out of form strikers you need to take pressure off them by not conceding. In other words if you concede lots of goals you have to score lots and lots of goals to win which is very difficult when you can’t score at all!!! I find our defenders defending very acceptable, it’s what they are there for. I would also find it acceptable if our forwards could score, it’s what they are there for. Defenders defend, forwards score.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 6, 2024 18:25:34 GMT
There is no bright side to relegation. We must not allow ourselves to think this. Fuck League One and all who sail in her. You must have hated the Macari and Stein era then? Let’s face facts actually really winning shit is great even if it’s only the third tier or the auto glass trophy. I’ve been a regular for over forty years and it has only really happened in that one short era.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 6, 2024 18:34:50 GMT
Great if you can keep it out without throwing more resources into defending. You don’t remedy a scoring problem by diverting resources to the other end of the pitch that just leaves you destined to be perennial low scorers but then you find that kind of thing acceptable. It’s very simple. If you can’t score you need to make sure you don’t concede because you’ll lose, which you seem to find acceptable. And if you can’t take your chances due to shit strikers, or out of form strikers you need to take pressure off them by not conceding. In other words if you concede lots of goals you have to score lots and lots of goals to win which is very difficult when you can’t score at all!!! I find our defenders defending very acceptable, it’s what they are there for. I would also find it acceptable if our forwards could score, it’s what they are there for. Defenders defend, forwards score. You can’t even bring yourself to say you think it’s how to approach our situation ‘ to divert additional resources into defending’. It’s a simple proposal, Lambert was either working along the right lines and was just unlucky or he completely misdiagnosed our problem and got his priorities wrong. Is that an approach we should be taking right now or isn’t it? There you go it’s not even a loaded question no need to criticise your hero.
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Post by anchorman on Feb 6, 2024 18:52:44 GMT
Can’t help yourself…Of course we should be putting more ‘resources’ into defending. Or let’s keep it wide open and carry on conceding and therefore accept relegation.I’ll leave you to your hero whoever that is..Noddy more than likely.
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Post by anchorman on Feb 6, 2024 18:54:51 GMT
Ps just for clarity…we should also being on the training ground putting hours and hours and hours into finishing…as suggested by Denis Smith….my hero!
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Post by bertiestan on Feb 6, 2024 19:22:55 GMT
There is no bright side to relegation. We must not allow ourselves to think this. Fuck League One and all who sail in her. You must have hated the Macari and Stein era then? Long time ago that…that was a great team/squad but let’s not not pretend that you’d be up for league one
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Post by independent on Feb 6, 2024 19:30:25 GMT
what is "about 2 players?" Remember we have also signed Pearson on a 4 year contract and gone begging to Clarke,so I'm sure that he is on a good whack. Either way 70% of £32m is £22.4m and that is recognised as the correct % of your income that should go on wages. If we went down, I imagine our income would also go down as we would at least get less from the Premier League money. MON and the Coates family did very well to sort out our finances in 3 years, we just need to not repeat our previous mistakes. Some people on here complained that MON had too many players contracts ending in June last. We always had the option to re-sign them. Would you rather go down into League One with all your players on Championship contracts. Now that would be repeating a past mistake. Apologies, I meant only about two. It’s more like 5 anyways, or however many we started with at the beginning of the season. The point was that we have no idea what our wage bill is currently because previous statements are drawn on an entirely different squad, manager and coaching staff. I also imagine that everyone has relegation wage drops embedded into a contract. Would the finances take a hit? Quite likely. Would there be some sort of riot at the mishandling of the club (which was what my point initially was about). No, I don’t think so. I agree about the riots. Regarding relegation clauses, you have more confidence than I do. Even if there are, I'm sure our few better players would be looking to leave. Hopefully relegation will not happen this year, as indeed it shouldn't. There is absolutely no reason that we should finish in the bottom 3.
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Post by HarryTheHat on Feb 6, 2024 19:31:37 GMT
You must have hated the Macari and Stein era then? Long time ago that…that was a great team/squad but let’s not not pretend that you’d be up for league one Ideally not, but I'd happily take a season like 91/92 or 92/93 over any of the past 6 we've endured. I don't recall many deflated weekends back then and ultimately I just want to watch my team compete. We don't seem to be able to do it at this level
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Post by peterthornesboots on Feb 6, 2024 19:35:24 GMT
This season reeks of relegation. Poor squad, poor sprit, new inexperienced manager, supporter apathy / grumblings, out of touch board, lack of leaders. I think we need to take a deep breath, Saturday was a shit show but if you take Schumacher's tenure as a whole one bad half against Sunderland and a drubbing by the league leaders isn't that bad. Yes we need to start putting our chances away, and yes our home form is a worry but I think he needs to pick a formation, players in their rightful positions and play on the front foot like we did in some of his earlier games. The return of Tchamadeu, the new Dutch lad and Ennis with a weeks training under their belts will hopefully give us the shot in the arm we need. If we get nothing from our next 2 games I'll share the concerns, I expect us to get 4 points minimum so time will tell......... Unless the two new signings turn out to be absolute gems then I think that relegation is a definite possibility. We are incredibly poor in the attacking third and over the last three games our defence has looked shambolic. Let's hope that this weekend we turn a little bit of a corner and get a positive result.
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