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Post by Pugsley on Feb 5, 2024 10:05:12 GMT
We’re in the thick of one of the worst series of league finishes in the club’s history, beaten only by.. err, the same people, thirty years ago. And if the fans dare to criticise this we’re “entitled”. Brilliant I understand your frustration but I never said that criticism of our present situation is not merited. I was speaking of our fans who think that we would be an established Premier Club if it wasn't for those nasty stupid owners we have. We were an established PL club. Then JC got involved.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Feb 5, 2024 10:13:59 GMT
“we're in a position worse now than we ever were as a Championship club, prior to even getting promotion in the first place!“ How isn’t it? Right now we're in a worse state than we were before we got promotion to the Premier League. Quite self explanatory really. Prior to gaining promotion to the Prem we were at least having top half finishes and just missing out on the play offs. Since Premier League football we've had constant bottom half finishes. ie we've regressed as a club, the riches & status of the Premier League have passed us by. It's as if we haven't been there. Not a great legacy that whichever way its looked back on. Worse state no we are not. A lot less likely to go down. Under the Icelandics we were constantly on a shoe string and hot favourites to go down from the off as they did not invest and crowds were in the 13-14k’s. Yeah we haemorrhage more money but it’s footed by the Coates and bet365 so not really that relevant. Can’t see how we’re in a worse state now.
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Post by andromeda on Feb 5, 2024 10:25:07 GMT
I understand your frustration but I never said that criticism of our present situation is not merited. I was speaking of our fans who think that we would be an established Premier Club if it wasn't for those nasty stupid owners we have. We were an established PL club. Then JC got involved. Easy to blame one person but we don’t have the point at which JC started steering the ship. He has clearly gone down this model of having people like Ricky and Simon running the Club since (2023?) and we haven’t got any better only worse. The disconnect between the Club and the fans has never been greater imo. What have either achieved during their time? A load of less than average players and a couple of ‘fans’ events where they can fleece the fans for more money behind the bar.
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Post by a on Feb 5, 2024 10:29:54 GMT
Could he maybe hand the running over someone else or is that already meant to be the case? Isn't that Ricky Martin's job now? I have no idea to be honest. Yes? we need someone better 😂
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Post by andromeda on Feb 5, 2024 10:33:53 GMT
This is the right answer but can you trust them to get that right? Tricky Ricky and Simple Simon have not exactly transformed us in the right direction. Just another pair of incompetent people at the top of the Club. Get in a Chief Exec and Director of Football that has worked at the top level at a decent Club. We have the money to pay these people so why don’t we? Hasn't Simon King disbanded the Supporters Forum? Surprised more wasn't made of that at the time! Good point forgot about that. The Supporters Council clearly wasn’t perfect but surely reforming it would have been better than saying’ Feck that I don’t want to be answerable to those peasants’. Fielded questions at a meet the club event isn’t being held to account.
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Post by mamathestriker on Feb 5, 2024 10:37:43 GMT
Hasn't Simon King disbanded the Supporters Forum? Surprised more wasn't made of that at the time! Good point forgot about that. The Supporters Council clearly wasn’t perfect but surely reforming it would have been better than saying’ Feck that I don’t want to be answerable to those peasants’. Fielded questions at a meet the club event isn’t being held to account. The Supporters Council was by no means perfect looking from the outside, but it at least gave fans a regular forum to air concerns and represent other supporters too. They had that one consultation meeting in its place but I can't see how that is better.
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Post by andromeda on Feb 5, 2024 10:45:29 GMT
Good point forgot about that. The Supporters Council clearly wasn’t perfect but surely reforming it would have been better than saying’ Feck that I don’t want to be answerable to those peasants’. Fielded questions at a meet the club event isn’t being held to account. The Supporters Council was by no means perfect looking from the outside, but it at least gave fans a regular forum to air concerns and represent other supporters too. They had that one consultation meeting in its place but I can't see how that is better. Exactly. Everything those pair have touched has made things worse. We need to get rid and get proper people in running the Club, backed (only financially) by the Coates family.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 5, 2024 10:59:47 GMT
Is the correct word when and not if now?
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 5, 2024 11:36:15 GMT
We were an established PL club. Then JC got involved. Easy to blame one person but we don’t have the point at which JC started steering the ship. He has clearly gone down this model of having people like Ricky and Simon running the Club since (2023?) and we haven’t got any better only worse. The disconnect between the Club and the fans has never been greater imo. What have either achieved during their time? A load of less than average players and a couple of ‘fans’ events where they can fleece the fans for more money behind the bar. JC let the manager appoint those people. Absolute bonkers decision and typical of the man. It's the right model but, as usual, done the wrong way.
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Post by greenman on Feb 5, 2024 11:42:28 GMT
Are there FFP rules in the Third Division? See Reading for evidence, that would likely be us. Languishing below the Vale
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Post by andromeda on Feb 5, 2024 11:47:54 GMT
Easy to blame one person but we don’t have the point at which JC started steering the ship. He has clearly gone down this model of having people like Ricky and Simon running the Club since (2023?) and we haven’t got any better only worse. The disconnect between the Club and the fans has never been greater imo. What have either achieved during their time? A load of less than average players and a couple of ‘fans’ events where they can fleece the fans for more money behind the bar. JC let the manager appoint those people. Absolute bonkers decision and typical of the man. It's the right model but, as usual, done the wrong way. Agree completely. As I said before though the Coates family have a history of disastrous senior appointments going back to the 80’s. I don’t think it’s specific to John, more of a family trait… They need to replace those two at the top and get people in who have been at the highest level. That might be expensive but worth every penny.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Feb 5, 2024 11:57:39 GMT
Third richest owners in the entirety of the football league and we’re looking at playing the Vale next season if they don’t fall back down into League 2.
You have to laugh don’t you, otherwise you’d end up being sectioned.
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Post by noustie on Feb 5, 2024 12:01:53 GMT
Third richest owners in the entirety of the football league and we’re looking at playing the Vale next season if they don’t fall back down into League 2. You have to laugh don’t you, otherwise you’d end up being sectioned. Probably the second richest skint club after Newcastle but we haven't the option to offload wank players to Saudi for a fortune unfortunately. At this rate it screams the only way of turning this shit around is through pure fluke rather than judgement.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 5, 2024 12:09:46 GMT
By “the family”, you mean Peter. Denise has never been part of it and doesn’t give a monkey’s, and PC isn’t going to get himself back involved now, at 108 or whatever he is. So we’re dopey John’s plaything for the foreseeable, whatever depths he manages to drag us down to Richard Smith is on the board, his brother in law. It’s still the family’s money he’s pissing down the drain. If he oversees relegation to the third tier, I’m not sure how much that would cost but I can imagine it’ll be a pretty penny of their money. Denise Coates’ salary last year was something like £200 million. That’s in one year (despite Bet 365 losing money). If we went down, it would cost a small fraction of that. If it came close to hurting any of them in any way that was meaningful, I’d expect them to sell. I expect them to sell as soon as PC dies to be honest.
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Post by callas12 on Feb 5, 2024 12:13:40 GMT
Right now we're in a worse state than we were before we got promotion to the Premier League. Quite self explanatory really. Prior to gaining promotion to the Prem we were at least having top half finishes and just missing out on the play offs. Since Premier League football we've had constant bottom half finishes. ie we've regressed as a club, the riches & status of the Premier League have passed us by. It's as if we haven't been there. Not a great legacy that whichever way its looked back on. Worse state no we are not. A lot less likely to go down. Under the Icelandics we were constantly on a shoe string and hot favourites to go down from the off as they did not invest and crowds were in the 13-14k’s. Yeah we haemorrhage more money but it’s footed by the Coates and bet365 so not really that relevant. Can’t see how we’re in a worse state now. Think you've answered the question in your own answer there. Having far less money, gates of 13-14k etc etc pre Premier League was just part of the course. There was no benchmark to really compare us to. That was more understandable to be poor back then. With the finances our owners have got and have spent, bigger gates than back then and the fact we've been in the Premier League so have the structure already in place, to be a bottom half Championship Club for the last 6 seasons in my view makes things a lot worse now than they were then. Inexcusable in fact. The fact our owners have thrown a ridiculous amount of money at the squad and management team appointments since we dropped out the Premier League but still as of today we are hovering just above the drop zone shows a complete mismanagement from the top down. Throwing money at an issue is the Coates answer to making things better. But when money doesn't change anything it's Time to realise that cycle and course of action isn't working. Totally inexcusable in my eyes and where we are now is a far worse predicament than any Championship Season in the seaons pre Premier League on this basis alone.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 5, 2024 12:15:40 GMT
I think JC holding the purse strings and in post remains our best option. Any other realistic options are worse. Just have to hope he flukes it and finally gets the right team in post. A stopped clock is right twice a day. The best option is JC remaining as Chairman in name only, and get professional’s in to run the club with the financial backing of the Coates family. He’s not flunking anything any time soon. Perhaps. Though Ipswich were bought out in 2021 and haven’t exactly been doing bad since. I somehow doubt that we aren’t as similarly as attractive of an investment opportunity as they were three years ago.
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 5, 2024 12:19:00 GMT
I've just stuck £60 on us to be relegated at 12/1.
We can't score, we gift goals down the other end (can anyone remember the last genuinely good goal we conceded), there's rumours of player unrest, bad eggs in the club etc.
It all just stinks of a relegation season.
At least I'll make enough to pay for my summer holiday to get over it.
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Post by Scouse on Feb 5, 2024 12:21:11 GMT
Good point forgot about that. The Supporters Council clearly wasn’t perfect but surely reforming it would have been better than saying’ Feck that I don’t want to be answerable to those peasants’. Fielded questions at a meet the club event isn’t being held to account. The Supporters Council was by no means perfect looking from the outside, but it at least gave fans a regular forum to air concerns and represent other supporters too. They had that one consultation meeting in its place but I can't see how that is better. The councils remit & meetings didn’t include talking about or raising issues relating to on-field issues or concerns
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Post by andromeda on Feb 5, 2024 12:30:46 GMT
The Supporters Council was by no means perfect looking from the outside, but it at least gave fans a regular forum to air concerns and represent other supporters too. They had that one consultation meeting in its place but I can't see how that is better. The councils remit & meetings didn’t include talking about or raising issues relating to on-field issues or concerns It may not have included that (I don’t know so will take your word) but at least it was a vehicle for fans to speak directly to people at the Club. What is there now? Just seems like the two idiots at the top of the Club have carte Blanche to do what they want without accountability. Devolving power from the board to senior people only works if those people are at least slightly competent. They should be replaced but I wouldn’t trust the board to replace Tricky and Simple with anyone decent as they just get drawn in by Five Pillars of Bollox on a PowerPoint presentation.
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Post by spirered on Feb 5, 2024 12:34:01 GMT
I understand your frustration but I never said that criticism of our present situation is not merited. I was speaking of our fans who think that we would be an established Premier Club if it wasn't for those nasty stupid owners we have. We were an established PL club. Then JC got involved. Although I'm far from happy with JC's tenure, didn't the decline start when PC decided that we needed to be self sufficient, at which point we started to sell off the crown jewels (Arnie, Walters, Whelan etc) without suitable replacements 🤔
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Post by andromeda on Feb 5, 2024 12:36:15 GMT
We were an established PL club. Then JC got involved. Although I'm far from happy with JC's tenure, didn't the decline start when PC decided that we needed to be self sufficient, at which point we started to sell off the crown jewels (Arnie, Walters, Whelan etc) without suitable replacements 🤔 Nail. On. Head. Everyone blaming JC (who has clearly played a part in the decline) forget the rot started long before then.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Feb 5, 2024 13:36:35 GMT
Worse state no we are not. A lot less likely to go down. Under the Icelandics we were constantly on a shoe string and hot favourites to go down from the off as they did not invest and crowds were in the 13-14k’s. Yeah we haemorrhage more money but it’s footed by the Coates and bet365 so not really that relevant. Can’t see how we’re in a worse state now. Think you've answered the question in your own answer there. Having far less money, gates of 13-14k etc etc pre Premier League was just part of the course. There was no benchmark to really compare us to. That was more understandable to be poor back then. With the finances our owners have got and have spent, bigger gates than back then and the fact we've been in the Premier League so have the structure already in place, to be a bottom half Championship Club for the last 6 seasons in my view makes things a lot worse now than they were then. Inexcusable in fact. The fact our owners have thrown a ridiculous amount of money at the squad and management team appointments since we dropped out the Premier League but still as of today we are hovering just above the drop zone shows a complete mismanagement from the top down. Throwing money at an issue is the Coates answer to making things better. But when money doesn't change anything it's Time to realise that cycle and course of action isn't working. Totally inexcusable in my eyes and where we are now is a far worse predicament than any Championship Season in the seaons pre Premier League on this basis alone. I agree with that but what you said earlier was we are in a worse state than when we first got promoted to the championship which I completely disagree with. We had no backing, were favourites to go down and poor crowds. Much rather our circumstances now (not that it’s great) than back then.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Feb 5, 2024 13:53:34 GMT
I really don't know what would happen if we went down. All heads should surely have to roll (possibly Schumacher aside if we want someone with a clue how to navigate us back) and we start again. You'd like to think, although absolutely disastrous short term, we'd at least make a better fist of getting out of that league than we have this one, but would you bank on it? Would you bollocks.
We'd lose face, supporters and the reputation we had built. It could also break us if we balls up the FFP side of things, not in terms of the finance itself but points deductions etc.
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Feb 5, 2024 14:14:53 GMT
Have to be a reset anyway can't see junho burger junior wanting to stay and would have to sell probably to balance the books.
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Post by yellowsnowman on Feb 5, 2024 14:24:45 GMT
Have to be a reset anyway can't see junho burger junior wanting to stay and would have to sell probably to balance the books. It would be a reset of all proportions. Low gates and we wouldnt come straight back up either. Whole of last summer wasted.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Feb 5, 2024 14:58:41 GMT
I've just stuck £60 on us to be relegated at 12/1. We can't score, we gift goals down the other end (can anyone remember the last genuinely good goal we conceded), there's rumours of player unrest, bad eggs in the club etc. It all just stinks of a relegation season. At least I'll make enough to pay for my summer holiday to get over it. I'm tempted back the double with Vale to be relegated at 100/1
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 5, 2024 15:08:02 GMT
I've just stuck £60 on us to be relegated at 12/1. We can't score, we gift goals down the other end (can anyone remember the last genuinely good goal we conceded), there's rumours of player unrest, bad eggs in the club etc. It all just stinks of a relegation season. At least I'll make enough to pay for my summer holiday to get over it. I'm tempted back the double with Vale to be relegated at 100/1 I'm in. We're destined to never play them again.
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Post by shakermaker on Feb 5, 2024 15:13:40 GMT
Have to be a reset anyway can't see junho burger junior wanting to stay and would have to sell probably to balance the books. Burger is certainly one who would want to leave. Junior and Junho, whilst clearly very good players with terrific potential, have not become bona fide, 'established' Championship players - certainly not enough for them to kick up a stink about wanting to play at a higher level. Junior went straight from L2 to Championship, and whilst he has done very well in the Championship I'm not sure other teams would see him as a 'must have' - we were after all the only team in for him. Nobody knew Junho existed before we bought him.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 5, 2024 15:25:00 GMT
Third richest owners in the entirety of the football league and we’re looking at playing the Vale next season if they don’t fall back down into League 2. You have to laugh don’t you, otherwise you’d end up being sectioned. Probably the second richest skint club after Newcastle but we haven't the option to offload wank players to Saudi for a fortune unfortunately. At this rate it screams the only way of turning this shit around is through pure fluke rather than judgement. Appointing Pulis was a fluke. Flukes don't tend to happen that often.
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Post by chamberlain on Feb 5, 2024 15:26:12 GMT
Third richest owners in the entirety of the football league and we’re looking at playing the Vale next season if they don’t fall back down into League 2. You have to LAUGH don’t you, otherwise you’d end up being sectioned. You really do mate
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