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Post by LGH87 on Feb 5, 2024 15:27:18 GMT
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Post by callas12 on Feb 5, 2024 15:50:29 GMT
Think you've answered the question in your own answer there. Having far less money, gates of 13-14k etc etc pre Premier League was just part of the course. There was no benchmark to really compare us to. That was more understandable to be poor back then. With the finances our owners have got and have spent, bigger gates than back then and the fact we've been in the Premier League so have the structure already in place, to be a bottom half Championship Club for the last 6 seasons in my view makes things a lot worse now than they were then. Inexcusable in fact. The fact our owners have thrown a ridiculous amount of money at the squad and management team appointments since we dropped out the Premier League but still as of today we are hovering just above the drop zone shows a complete mismanagement from the top down. Throwing money at an issue is the Coates answer to making things better. But when money doesn't change anything it's Time to realise that cycle and course of action isn't working. Totally inexcusable in my eyes and where we are now is a far worse predicament than any Championship Season in the seaons pre Premier League on this basis alone. I agree with that but what you said earlier was we are in a worse state than when we first got promoted to the championship which I completely disagree with. We had no backing, were favourites to go down and poor crowds. Much rather our circumstances now (not that it’s great) than back then. Nah I don't recall mentioning about the point we initially got promoted with Gudjon, that must have been crossed wires. On my original post on this subject I was referring to that we're in a worse place now than the Championship period we had when Coates & Pulis were back at the helm, the spell before we got promoted to the Prem. The era where Delap, Hendrie & Fuller were recruited in I was referencing. I recall we lost out getting into the play offs in the last game of the season at QPR and as disappointing as it felt back then, it was still a damn sight better than continous bottom half finishes. Matters not, I think we're on the same wavelength either way. We're not in a great place right now but hopefully our new management regime & available funds can get the balance right and we can start to improve our fortunes.
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Post by hoppo96 on Feb 5, 2024 15:58:05 GMT
Perhaps they would sell/give the club away to the fans and let them see how easy it is to run a club. Or they might sell it to anyone else who is interested. I imagine that they are sick of the constant moaning from people on this site, who think that it's a simple job to make a success of running a club. We are on our 5/6 manager since being relegated 6 years ago, yet there are lots of people complaining that we don't get rid of managers quickly enough. The sense of entitlement among some of our fans is sickening. Whatever manager is flavour of the month should be signed immediately. We have had Potter and now Nuno Espírito Santo mentioned and any nameless foreign manager, all of who will wave a magic wand and get us promoted. I just hope that we stay up. they have the resources to get people into running the club. It's been eight years of terrible decline, you don't go from top half premier league to another probable championship relegation battle with our resources and put it down to 'just one of those things' or 'bad luck'. pretty incredible that a club which has spent just over half it's league existence in the first tier, we have such a low view of ourselves.
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Post by hoppo96 on Feb 5, 2024 15:58:57 GMT
What happens next? Would the family pull rank and remove John? Would they just shrug their shoulders, throw more money at more shit and hope for the best? Would we riot? I honestly don’t know what would happen if/when we drop? John *is* the family. Denise doesn't care (understandably) and Peter is well, look at the year he was born.
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 5, 2024 16:00:06 GMT
What happens next? Would the family pull rank and remove John? Would they just shrug their shoulders, throw more money at more shit and hope for the best? Would we riot? I honestly don’t know what would happen if/when we drop? John *is* the family. Denise doesn't care (understandably) and Peter is well, look at the year he was born. The money is the families money though, the club isn't owned by John himself, he's merely the chairman. Bet365 owns Stoke and the family owns Bet365.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Feb 5, 2024 16:05:06 GMT
I think we'll just about survive but it will be a nervous run in no doubt - if we do go then no-one will be truly surprised and we couldn't really argue that we didn't deserve it in the face of several years of gross mismanagement and wanton negligence from the very top since relegation (and a year or two prior actually.....) - it would be a disaster for the club and the City as we'd probably end up in with Vale, Shrewsbury, Burton Albion and possibly even Crewe & Stockport County - along with a few "sleeping giants" Wigan, Weds, Bolton, Blackpool, Barnsley - nightmare stuff indeed.......or maybe it would be a fantastic nostalgic blast and we could all relive the nineties and noughties.....I think not.....
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Post by pushon on Feb 5, 2024 16:16:22 GMT
John *is* the family. Denise doesn't care (understandably) and Peter is well, look at the year he was born. The money is the families money though, the club isn't owned by John himself, he's merely the chairman. Bet365 owns Stoke and the family owns Bet365. I get your point but (I think) JC owns around 25% of the Bet365 shares and his sister Denise owns around 50%. Dad Peter holds (I believe) less than 10%, but is still Joint Chairman of the club/ holding company. The other main board member is Denise's husband, whose name escapes me, he holds the title of M.D. I wouldn't bet my house on these facts being precisely correct but it doesn't look likely that there'll be any insubordination.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 5, 2024 19:15:40 GMT
I've just stuck £60 on us to be relegated at 12/1. We can't score, we gift goals down the other end (can anyone remember the last genuinely good goal we conceded), there's rumours of player unrest, bad eggs in the club etc. It all just stinks of a relegation season. At least I'll make enough to pay for my summer holiday to get over it. You’ll just lose £60.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 5, 2024 19:17:30 GMT
Personally I’d love to be going toe to toe with Crewe again. Brilliant stuff
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Post by baconburger on Feb 5, 2024 19:24:31 GMT
John *is* the family. Denise doesn't care (understandably) and Peter is well, look at the year he was born. The money is the families money though, the club isn't owned by John himself, he's merely the chairman. Bet365 owns Stoke and the family owns Bet365. Bottom line John has the means to own and fund SCFC and doesn’t have to beg his Sister to carry on funding the club. If it’s his passion (I don’t know whether it is or isn’t) he has the means to fund the club like no club has ever yet be funded in this country(let that sink in) and to do so he’d probably have to divest his interest in bet365 opening her core business to outside interference unless she has the cash flow to buy his stake which would be a big ask even for her.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 5, 2024 19:25:06 GMT
Richard Smith is on the board, his brother in law. It’s still the family’s money he’s pissing down the drain. If he oversees relegation to the third tier, I’m not sure how much that would cost but I can imagine it’ll be a pretty penny of their money. Denise Coates’ salary last year was something like £200 million. That’s in one year (despite Bet 365 losing money). If we went down, it would cost a small fraction of that. If it came close to hurting any of them in any way that was meaningful, I’d expect them to sell. I expect them to sell as soon as PC dies to be honest. Did they lose money because she pocketed £200M?
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Feb 5, 2024 21:11:11 GMT
We'd probably give longer contracts to half the players who helped get us relegated, spend a load of cash on has beens and never gonna be's......nah, what am I thinking, no one would be that daft...or would they!
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 5, 2024 21:22:02 GMT
Nice trip to Wrexham on a sunny September afternoon would be quite pleasant 😀
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Post by peterpan1 on Feb 5, 2024 21:39:53 GMT
On a positive.....we'd have the best ground in League 1 ? 🤔
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Post by pulismaskreplica on Feb 5, 2024 21:41:47 GMT
Personally I’d love to be going toe to toe with Crewe again. Brilliant stuff And see how football should be played… the ‘Crewe Alex way’ carpet football, Brazilian style opulence from south Cheshire
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 5, 2024 22:18:30 GMT
Personally I’d love to be going toe to toe with Crewe again. Unfair fight, they have more
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Post by independent on Feb 6, 2024 2:36:53 GMT
I understand your frustration but I never said that criticism of our present situation is not merited. I was speaking of our fans who think that we would be an established Premier Club if it wasn't for those nasty stupid owners we have. We were an established PL club. Then JC got involved. Blackburn, Bolton, Leeds Utd. and Middlesbrough are some of the clubs who have had a longer unbroken spell in the Premier League than we have, so I suppose that means that they were established Premier League clubs as well.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 6, 2024 2:44:46 GMT
Nothing really. A few less fans would attend. If you really believe that, then i don't think you have given the matter much thought. There are going to be enormous changes in the football world over the next few years. The latest TV deal which is what is financing the present system has peaked. To get the same money, the latest deal actually allows almost all games to be televised. Future deals will probably provide less money. At the same time the WSL will be looking for a chunk of the TV money to underpin their ambitious but financially non performing leagues. Whatever chance the Championship has of continuing on it's merry way (they owe £1700 million between them) and you have already seen clubs having transfer embargoes imposed and points deductions. Players like Brereton Diaz leaving on free transfers and most clubs in the Championship unable to pay any decent fee for a player. Wages will have to fall even further than they already have. The proposed new FFP is designed to force clubs to live within their means. At the moment we have an income of about £32m and fans expect us to lose another £13m each season which the owners will supply. How much do you think our wage bill is? I doubt our wage bill is huge. I imagine we’d still do comparatively okay on attendance. We’d likely sell players like Bae et al, recoup money lost. Generally do little of note. Fall into a malaise because no one at the club wants to push forwards. The fans were bored before, nervous now and would be despondent in league one. Most people realize that Stoke is just a part of, and not their entire life. There wouldn’t be some sort of riot. People would just generally feel like crap for a while then reset.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 6, 2024 2:47:22 GMT
Denise Coates’ salary last year was something like £200 million. That’s in one year (despite Bet 365 losing money). If we went down, it would cost a small fraction of that. If it came close to hurting any of them in any way that was meaningful, I’d expect them to sell. I expect them to sell as soon as PC dies to be honest. Did they lose money because she pocketed £200M? No, she just took a pay rise in a year that her company lost money. It’s a bit of an odd decision. I suppose they lost more money because she took a pay rise. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-08/bet365-boss-coates-gets-pay-raise-to-280-million-despite-loss
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Post by st3mark on Feb 6, 2024 9:16:49 GMT
I think I'm actually ready to go down. I loved that period last time. I don't think I can take much more of this shite. I enjoyed our time in what was division 2, I'd rather those days stayed in the past though. We'd likely end up mid table and be stuck there for 3-5 years. Think we were there 4 years last time. Missed out on the play offs in the Little season and then lost in the play offs to Gilligham, Walsall and then beat cardiff/Brentford. I've got to say I loved it. The Prem days always first but genuinely the third tier days have always been a better buzz for me than this level.
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Post by moon on Feb 6, 2024 10:30:24 GMT
I enjoyed our time in what was division 2, I'd rather those days stayed in the past though. We'd likely end up mid table and be stuck there for 3-5 years. Think we were there 4 years last time. Missed out on the play offs in the Little season and then lost in the play offs to Gilligham, Walsall and then beat cardiff/Brentford. I've got to say I loved it. The Prem days always first but genuinely the third tier days have always been a better buzz for me than this level. They were good times indeed, the playoff games will live long in the memory - especially beating Cardiff at Ninian Park, I honestly enjoyed that more than anything I experienced in our time in the Premier League - but it's partly the age I was at the time.
The bit that I don't miss though is a half empty stadium (or less), we regularly had about 12k I think but sometimes less than 10k in the ground, compare that to our days in the PL when it was full most games and there was a buzz around the Brit that was only seen for the home play off leg in division 2.
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Post by andromeda on Feb 6, 2024 10:45:57 GMT
I think someone may have already said this but people expecting things to be better because we are in a lower division obviously are too young or have short memories. We would just be equally shit and disappointing, just in an even worse league. We have to stay up.
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Post by theporcelainpele on Feb 6, 2024 10:47:12 GMT
Just noticed it would be a renewed rivalry with Stockport fucking County. Wow!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 6, 2024 10:50:38 GMT
We won't go down.
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Post by J-Roar on Feb 6, 2024 11:10:53 GMT
This season reeks of relegation. Poor squad, poor sprit, new inexperienced manager, supporter apathy / grumblings, out of touch board, lack of leaders.
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Post by theporcelainpele on Feb 6, 2024 11:12:51 GMT
Really hope that you are right. Every single thing within the club at the minute is only pointing one way though. We have to get junior back in that defence and really hope that Million hits the ground running from start number one. Oh, and that the entire squad has a big group hug and gets on with it together as one.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 6, 2024 11:19:33 GMT
I bloody hope you are right mate.
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Post by haway on Feb 6, 2024 11:22:42 GMT
Playing in league one is shit, it’s so so shit.
Given you’ve been above that level for so long, everyone will see you (and Sheff Wed) as the big boys in the league and raise their game.
- The time wasting from the opposition will be ridiculous, whether you’re home or away. - The referee performances are even worse down there. - Most of your team will have to leave - I know that seems a positive but you’ll likely require a massive rebuild or rely on academy products.
It’s not a case of bouncing straight back up either, I see someone on here mentioned ourselves or Ipswich as doing well following our promotions, but we both spent 4 years in league one. Other ‘big’ teams (if you don’t mind using the label) have also struggled after going down there. Derby, Portsmouth & Bolton spring to mind. Sheff Wed too who look like they’re going straight back down.
Basically it’s not a good thing to go down and have a reset, you should be resetting in the summer following survival. Not waiting for you to get relegated.
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Post by skip on Feb 6, 2024 11:23:01 GMT
We (they) have absolutely got to play like relegation is an absolute none-starter. If the players actually realised what it would mean to us - no time for glassy eyed nostalgia for trips to fucking Crewe or whoever else - then we might get somewhere in the next few games.
Relegation should be absolutely unthinkable. They could do worse than take a leaf out of Everton's book. They're playing like the pride of the club is at stake. I wish some of ours would get this.
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Post by independent on Feb 6, 2024 11:28:56 GMT
If you really believe that, then i don't think you have given the matter much thought. There are going to be enormous changes in the football world over the next few years. The latest TV deal which is what is financing the present system has peaked. To get the same money, the latest deal actually allows almost all games to be televised. Future deals will probably provide less money. At the same time the WSL will be looking for a chunk of the TV money to underpin their ambitious but financially non performing leagues. Whatever chance the Championship has of continuing on it's merry way (they owe £1700 million between them) and you have already seen clubs having transfer embargoes imposed and points deductions. Players like Brereton Diaz leaving on free transfers and most clubs in the Championship unable to pay any decent fee for a player. Wages will have to fall even further than they already have. The proposed new FFP is designed to force clubs to live within their means. At the moment we have an income of about £32m and fans expect us to lose another £13m each season which the owners will supply. How much do you think our wage bill is? I doubt our wage bill is huge. I imagine we’d still do comparatively okay on attendance. We’d likely sell players like Bae et al, recoup money lost. Generally do little of note. Fall into a malaise because no one at the club wants to push forwards. The fans were bored before, nervous now and would be despondent in league one. Most people realize that Stoke is just a part of, and not their entire life. There wouldn’t be some sort of riot. People would just generally feel like crap for a while then reset. Stoke City Football Club has published its accounts for the year ended 31 May 2023. total income £31.2m wages and salaries (all staff and players) £30.1m Wages down £7.3m from the previous year.
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