How close are we to Axe Time?

[Trouserdog]

Going into the summer with almost a blank slate and a bit of money to spend, the minimum expectation was that we'd be looking at a team capable of finishing in the top half and some decent foundations being laid this season. Talk of a play-off challenge was always a bit fanciful for me, but we had to be better than last season- we just HAD to be. But are we? Or has Alex Neil, with the freedom to sign pretty much a whole squad and get them playing his type of football (whatever that is), somehow made us worse still?

Personally, I wouldn't go quite that far. Man for man, I think this year's squad is slightly stronger than last year's. We have made some good signings and some bad ones, which was always going to be the case with the number of arrivals we had. Our midfield 2 of Pearson and Burger is an area of strength, Tchamadeu, Vidigal and Junho look very promising players. It's not all doom and gloom by any means.

Yesterday highlighted where the problems lie. We looked quite good in some passages of general play, but were utterly clueless what to do when we got into the final third. Meanwhile, in our own box, you always new the next calamity was only round the corner. In short, we can't score, and we can't stop gifting chances. Never a good combination that.

Some of those problems are only going to be addressed with the arrival of a transfer window. Other issues we have are entirely of the manager's making. A manager who seems incapable of planning for contingencies; a manager who doesn't seem to understand how to set a team up to score; a manager who seems determined to leave his stronger players out of the squad or on the bench in favour of workhorses and plodders.

The three (perhaps fortuitous) wins kept the wolves from the door, but I was all set to go into full on AXE mode before the Bristol City away game and I've not seen much to suggest we're ever going to get anywhere with this guy in charge. His management is causing us to underperform and eventually, if we dither about it long enough, we'll reach the stage where that underperformance reaches an inevitable conclusion.

He's probably a couple more bad results away from things getting ugly.

[Deleted]

Pearson and Burger an area of strength?

You must be watching a different team than me then mate.

Also, all we ever talk about since relegation, is the next transfer window, amd how things can be fixed during it, and it never happens.
The transfer window doesn't coach players, doesn't pick the right formations and doesn't gel teams into a style of playing.
All things that this manager seems incapable of doing.

Fed up with hearing things like, the next transfer window can't come soon enough, became when it does, nothing ever changes.

[aspo365]

Well written post TD!
Personally I think your post is 2 bad results too early, those 3 good results get him quite a bit of credit in my eyes. I certainly agree about your comments on the final 3rd! Why he didnt make wholesale changes on about 55 minutes I don’t know!!

[emretezzy]

Nov 26, 2023 9:34:10 GMT Trouserdog said:

Going into the summer with almost a blank slate and a bit of money to spend, the minimum expectation was that we'd be looking at a team capable of finishing in the top half and some decent foundations being laid this season. Talk of a play-off challenge was always a bit fanciful for me, but we had to be better than last season- we just HAD to be. But are we? Or has Alex Neil, with the freedom to sign pretty much a whole squad and get them playing his type of football (whatever that is), somehow made us worse still?

Personally, I wouldn't go quite that far. Man for man, I think this year's squad is slightly stronger than last year's. We have made some good signings and some bad ones, which was always going to be the case with the number of arrivals we had. Our midfield 2 of Pearson and Burger is an area of strength, Tchamadeu, Vidigal and Junho look very promising players. It's not all doom and gloom by any means.

Yesterday highlighted where the problems lie. We looked quite good in some passages of general play, but were utterly clueless what to do when we got into the final third. Meanwhile, in our own box, you always new the next calamity was only round the corner. In short, we can't score, and we can't stop gifting chances. Never a good combination that.

Some of those problems are only going to be addressed with the arrival of a transfer window. Other issues we have are entirely of the manager's making. A manager who seems incapable of planning for contingencies; a manager who doesn't seem to understand how to set a team up to score; a manager who seems determined to leave his stronger players out of the squad or on the bench in favour of workhorses and plodders.

The three (perhaps fortuitous) wins kept the wolves from the door, but I was all set to go into full on AXE mode before the Bristol City away game and I've not seen much to suggest we're ever going to get anywhere with this guy in charge. His management is causing us to underperform and eventually, if we dither about it long enough, we'll reach the stage where that underperformance reaches an inevitable conclusion.

He's probably a couple more bad results away from things getting ugly.

Squads fine.

Man with a tan is beyond shit.

[worcsstokie15]

Nov 26, 2023 9:40:50 GMT @vincentvega said:

Pearson and Burger an area of strength?

You must be watching a different team than me then mate.

Also, all we ever talk about since relegation, is the next transfer window, amd how things can be fixed during it, and it never happens.
The transfer window doesn't coach players, doesn't pick the right formations and doesn't gel teams into a style of playing.
All things that this manager seems incapable of doing.

Fed up with hearing things like, the next transfer window can't come soon enough, became when it does, nothing ever changes.

In a 4231, Burger and Pearson would definitely be an area of strength. They’d provide a very solid platform. If only AN picked the correct 4 ahead of them, say, Vidigal - Bae (Haks), Leris (Tyrese), Mmaee (Wes).

[Deleted]

He clearly has to go but surely now its obvious that even when he does that nothing is going to change.

[Deleted]

Nov 26, 2023 9:48:03 GMT worcsstokie15 said:

Nov 26, 2023 9:40:50 GMT @vincentvega said:

Pearson and Burger an area of strength?

You must be watching a different team than me then mate.

Also, all we ever talk about since relegation, is the next transfer window, amd how things can be fixed during it, and it never happens.
The transfer window doesn't coach players, doesn't pick the right formations and doesn't gel teams into a style of playing.
All things that this manager seems incapable of doing.

Fed up with hearing things like, the next transfer window can't come soon enough, became when it does, nothing ever changes.

In a 4231, Burger and Pearson would definitely be an area of strength. They’d provide a very solid platform. If only AN picked the correct 4 ahead of them, say, Vidigal - Bae (Haks), Leris (Tyrese), Mmaee (Wes).

Never rated Pearson before he came here, and he's done nowt to change my mind.
Burger looks like he should be a good player, but flatters to deceive.

[milky]

Most Stoke fans are level headed enough not to expect / demand promotion.
They don't expect Stokelona..short lived,long gone and unlikely to return in my lifetime.

Me personally, I'd just like to see a team on the front foot ,trying to score some goals and win games.What we are seeing ,bar sporadic moments,is a manager who has assembled a shit load of attacking players go full on binary mode.

Alarm bells rang with me after the Cardiff and Coventry games .2 clean sheets maybe but the opposition were far more likely to score ,in fact the Cov game could well have ended up like yesterday had they not been so wasteful.
At the same time the 2 opposition keepers could have been sent out with their feet set in concrete.However it was clear it was going to be " same again " re personnel and tactics for yesterday and hoping for a spawny 1 0 win.

We had a great chance to build on something after the Middlesbrough win and the manager shat his pants ,and not for the first time either.

If Jon Coates is not concerned at what he is seeing he fucking well should be !

To sum up....AXE for me !

[19notbeaten72]

Nowhere near the axe for me he will probably lose the next 2 games then win 3 on the bounce again.
The idiot running the club will see that as progress & gift him with money to spend in the Janurary transfer window.
The club is a complete shit show from top to bottom with Jon boy in control.

[peterthornesboots]

I think that we have the makings of a half decent squad (although it is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination).

I said this a couple of months ago, I doubt that AN will be anywhere near to being sacked anytime soon. We have invested so much into his vision and ideas (both on and off the pitch) that we will probably see it through for the long term - for better or for worse.

I expect us to finish mid-table at best this year. I think that we lack any real goalscorers and AN's pragmatic approach is not helping with that regard.

There was a thread a couple of weeks ago about whether we are seeing another binary season. Unless we change our approach or sign a goal scorer in January (easier said than done) then this going to be a binary year.

[loosestools]

It's an AXE for me too.

[estrangedsonoffaye]

Nowhere near. They’ve invested a lot in how Neil wants the football club to be run, he has a mate in the technical director position and Coates went out of his way to appoint him despite the timing being exceptionally questionable.

I think he’ll see out the season whatever happens. Can’t wait.

[loosestools]

Nov 26, 2023 10:07:22 GMT estrangedsonoffaye said:

Nowhere near. They’ve invested a lot in how Neil wants the football club to be run, he has a mate in the technical director position and Coates went out of his way to appoint him despite the timing being exceptionally questionable.

I think he’ll see out the season whatever happens. Can’t wait.

I know that you are correct -but- he deserves the AXE now.

[mickstupp]

He’s got the season. Finish bottom half again and he’s got to go. Simple as that.

[frasier37]

I wonder how many it'll take for them to get one right?
Not saying I've lost all faith but...

Hope I'm still around

[Janet in ST5]

Nov 26, 2023 9:54:19 GMT @sorensen82 said:

He clearly has to go but surely now its obvious that even when he does that nothing is going to change.

My sentiments exactly. It’s quite clear that, no matter who the manager is, whatever his philosophy (😂) might be, it always sinks back to the same slow play. Our passing stats must have been off the scale yesterday, but pointless passing across the back, repeatedly, and continuously. I’m no fan of Neil, didn’t like his football, or his cynical time wasting tactics, but he has had success elsewhere, maybe not meteoric, but success all the same, so why now, with all his players, can’t he do it at Stoke? There remains one person who hasn’t changed during all of this, and I wonder if he, rather than set an expectation of points / league position, also gives a required style of play…..🤷🏼‍♀️.

[gingerninja]

I think from here until the new year is a critical time for both Alex Neil and the club..on paper we have a relatively decent run of matches, we simply have to cement ourselves in the top half before we enter January, anything else would be in my opinion terminal for him.

[cheadlepotter]

I’d have him gone now, I’d have had him gone at the end of last season, I’m like a broken record on here but…he’s never achieved anything with his own players. Why those in charge at Stoke thought he’d be any different here I don’t know.

I do believe we have a squad good enough to compete in the top half, it’s about using them properly.

The defensive line, especially the two centre halves (and counting Wilmot when he’s back), can’t be too high. We don’t have the pace for it and it’s constantly exposed. Yesterday wasn’t helped by Junho wandering all over the place leaving Stephens with a huge portion of the pitch to defend but still it was too high. I’d like to see much more of Tchamadeu, but I have a feeling the deal to sign Hoever on loan pretty much means he’s starting when fit.

Dropping the back line a bit would hopefully mean Pearson would stop being in line with them when we’re in possession, it would create more space in front of the defence for us to play out. Burger has the ability to spot some brilliant passes, but opposing teams have sussed us out and playing a frantic press against us means we’re quite useless going forward and prone to conceding the ball, often in dangerous areas.

Johnson is a bottom half Championship plodder, he should be back up to perhaps Junho, I have doubts that Baker will ever make it back.

The wingers (Vidigal, Haks, Campbell, Leris) give us plenty of opportunity for rotation. A decent bit of scouting the opposition would indicate which two were more suited for the game. With those four available, (three of them yesterday) we shouldn’t be seeing players like Junho out of position causing far more problems than any positives.

Up top, Mmaee or Wes. Tezgel and Lowe can provide back-up if not loaned out. Need I say, no more Gayle. Don’t even give him a run out in the cup, he’s done.

[willieeetmiout]

He's made / making 3 massive errors for me which meant our season was over before it began:

1. No proper left back signed. You'll get 20 games out of Stevens max. It's a huge deficiency.

2. No proper keeper signed. Bonham awful yesterday.

3. For me this is his biggest problem. He absolute hard on for rotating the front 4. Players, especially forwards, thrive on form. Yet at Stoke you get no starts, then 4, then none, then 2, then none, then 1 apart from players who absolutely should be dropped like Johnson who start regardless of previous performances.

The front 4 for me should be (bracket players replace if main are injured/suspended

Vidigal (Haks) Mmae (Wesley) Campbell (Leris)

Juhno (Johnson)

[dirtygary69]

I am still on board but you can’t be playing and losing like that at home to frigging Blackburn. My confidence in him (and there wasn’t loads) has taken a massive dent after yesterday. The main problem being I just can’t see what his long term plan for Stoke City is.

We are neither attacking or defensive, not quick or incisive and he doesn’t appear to have much tactical or strategic awareness, in game especially. Don’t want to go too harsh on him because he has beaten the likes of Farke and Carrick in more recent weeks so he does deserve credit for those but, overall, when the onus is on us to break someone down we fail and fail miserably in yesterday’s case.

Games like yesterday can and have always happened, however well or badly you are playing, but the performance itself is one we’ve seen time and time again and I just don’t understand how it gets to that, when you know exactly how Blackburn are going to play. He’s getting it wrong as often as he’s getting it right and, after 15 months or so in charge it’s really not good enough.

I would probably be happy to see him go if we have a poor week against QPR and Plymouth. 4 points is the absolute minimum but he keeps putting himself under pressure from supporters by having these games where he gets it horribly wrong.

In answer to the question, he’s definitely closer than he was at this time yesterday. If it’s 0/6 this next week (which I don’t think it will be) then I can’t see the fans putting up with much more, no matter what the board say.

[LphPotter]

Nov 26, 2023 10:32:10 GMT dirtygary69 said:

I am still on board but you can’t be playing and losing like that at home to frigging Blackburn. My confidence in him (and there wasn’t loads) has taken a massive dent after yesterday. The main problem being I just can’t see what his long term plan for Stoke City is.

We are neither attacking or defensive, not quick or incisive and he doesn’t appear to have much tactical or strategic awareness, in game especially. Don’t want to go too harsh on him because he has beaten the likes of Farke and Carrick in more recent weeks so he does deserve credit for those but, overall, when the onus is on us to break someone down we fail and fail miserably in yesterday’s case.

Games like yesterday can and have always happened, however well or badly you are playing, but the performance itself is one we’ve sign time and time again and I just don’t understand how it gets to that, when you know exactly how Blackburn are going to play. He’s getting it wrong as often as he’s getting it right and, after 15 months or so in charge it’s really not good enough.

I would probably be happy to see him go if we have a poor week against QPR and Plymouth. 4 points is the absolute minimum but he keeps putting himself under pressure from supporters by having these games where he gets it horribly wrong.

Our performance was terrible and the team selection was pathetic, everyone except Neil it seems knew that there was no goals in that side.

Blackburn are a decent side though, they’ve won 4 in a row away from home. That doesn’t excuse the performance and team selection though, as soon as we conceded the early goal though it was obvious what would happen, same as last season.

We have to bounce back with at least 2 wins in the next 3 games.

[scfcbiancorossi]

It's almost like we have to wait until our season is completely and utterly ruined and we are in the bottom 3 until we sack our managers. Why aren't we proactive and like other successful clubs do, why dont we sack our underperforming managers with a view to salvaging the season? It's painful how fucking long we wait when it's so obvious Neil isn't going to get us out this league, or remotely close to getting us out this league.

Get him out.

[benjaminbiscuit]

Nov 26, 2023 10:05:58 GMT 19notbeaten72 said:

Nowhere near the axe for me he will probably lose the next 2 games then win 3 on the bounce again.
The idiot running the club will see that as progress & gift him with money to spend in the Janurary transfer window.
The club is a complete shit show from top to bottom with Jon boy in control.

The family have invested £330m in this club it can even pretend to have the aspirations we all dream of solely because of their support of course they make mistakes , recruitment of managers and now their new management speak boss is clearly one but in my hu,blue option they don’t deserve name calling in a message board. 

Stoke fans talk so often about give us effort and we forgive and support then watch somebody go beyond the call of any possible duty and resort to abuse when things dont suit 


One thing os for sure if he red this and walked away our current troubles would be a tiny dot in a wave of unthinkable events thats would threaten the clubs very existence. , 
Now they need to sort the manager and his boss and the on field issues in the way the tackled the off but abuse is not necessary .

[scfcbiancorossi]

Nov 26, 2023 10:37:11 GMT LphPotter said:

Nov 26, 2023 10:32:10 GMT dirtygary69 said:

I am still on board but you can’t be playing and losing like that at home to frigging Blackburn. My confidence in him (and there wasn’t loads) has taken a massive dent after yesterday. The main problem being I just can’t see what his long term plan for Stoke City is.

We are neither attacking or defensive, not quick or incisive and he doesn’t appear to have much tactical or strategic awareness, in game especially. Don’t want to go too harsh on him because he has beaten the likes of Farke and Carrick in more recent weeks so he does deserve credit for those but, overall, when the onus is on us to break someone down we fail and fail miserably in yesterday’s case.

Games like yesterday can and have always happened, however well or badly you are playing, but the performance itself is one we’ve sign time and time again and I just don’t understand how it gets to that, when you know exactly how Blackburn are going to play. He’s getting it wrong as often as he’s getting it right and, after 15 months or so in charge it’s really not good enough.

I would probably be happy to see him go if we have a poor week against QPR and Plymouth. 4 points is the absolute minimum but he keeps putting himself under pressure from supporters by having these games where he gets it horribly wrong.

Our performance was terrible and the team selection was pathetic, everyone except Neil it seems knew that there was no goals in that side.

Blackburn are a decent side though, they’ve won 4 in a row away from home. That doesn’t excuse the performance and team selection though, as soon as we conceded the early goal though it was obvious what would happen, same as last season.

We have to bounce back with at least 2 wins in the next 3 games.

Thing is what's the point in keeping him even if we win 2 out of our next 3 games? Because then we go and lose 2 out of the next 3 and we've just lost another 10 games out of our season!

The minute we start going down the route of "he needs to win the next game to keep him in a job" it's all over. Get rid of him now and stop wasting time. We've got to be more ruthless of a club otherwise we've got many many more years ahead stuck in this shit situation.

[dirtygary69]

Nov 26, 2023 10:37:11 GMT LphPotter said:

Nov 26, 2023 10:32:10 GMT dirtygary69 said:

I am still on board but you can’t be playing and losing like that at home to frigging Blackburn. My confidence in him (and there wasn’t loads) has taken a massive dent after yesterday. The main problem being I just can’t see what his long term plan for Stoke City is.

We are neither attacking or defensive, not quick or incisive and he doesn’t appear to have much tactical or strategic awareness, in game especially. Don’t want to go too harsh on him because he has beaten the likes of Farke and Carrick in more recent weeks so he does deserve credit for those but, overall, when the onus is on us to break someone down we fail and fail miserably in yesterday’s case.

Games like yesterday can and have always happened, however well or badly you are playing, but the performance itself is one we’ve sign time and time again and I just don’t understand how it gets to that, when you know exactly how Blackburn are going to play. He’s getting it wrong as often as he’s getting it right and, after 15 months or so in charge it’s really not good enough.

I would probably be happy to see him go if we have a poor week against QPR and Plymouth. 4 points is the absolute minimum but he keeps putting himself under pressure from supporters by having these games where he gets it horribly wrong.

Our performance was terrible and the team selection was pathetic, everyone except Neil it seems knew that there was no goals in that side. Jo

Blackburn are a decent side though, they’ve won 4 in a row away from home. That doesn’t excuse the performance and team selection though, as soon as we conceded the early goal though it was obvious what would happen, same as last season.

We have to bounce back with at least 2 wins in the next 3 games.

Yeah, Blackburn were threatening and have been on a good run. They might have run rings around us whatever we did, but we did exactly what they wanted and expected us to and had a game plan. They did exactly what was expected and we
looked like it was a complete surprise to us. Piss poor.

These next three games should be 9/9 if we are serious about not wasting another season in this division. 

[milky]

Nov 26, 2023 10:45:41 GMT benjaminbiscuit said:

Nov 26, 2023 10:05:58 GMT 19notbeaten72 said:

Nowhere near the axe for me he will probably lose the next 2 games then win 3 on the bounce again.
The idiot running the club will see that as progress & gift him with money to spend in the Janurary transfer window.
The club is a complete shit show from top to bottom with Jon boy in control.

The family have invested £330m in this club it can even pretend to have the aspirations we all dream of solely because of their support of course they make mistakes , recruitment of managers and now their new management speak boss is clearly one but in my hu,blue option they don’t deserve name calling in a message board. 

Stoke fans talk so often about give us effort and we forgive and support then watch somebody go beyond the call of any possible duty and resort to abuse when things dont suit 


One thing os for sure if he red this and walked away our current troubles would be a tiny dot in a wave of unthinkable events thats would threaten the clubs very existence. , 
Now they need to sort the manager and his boss and the on field issues in the way the tackled the off but abuse is not necessary .

Nah sorry Benj .

They can't be classed as good owners just because they have shit loads of money and are therefore able to bail out their own mistakes .

Surely that makes them not actually very good at what they do ?

[figo85]

I’ll go as far as to say he’ll still be in charge next August

[willieeetmiout]

Nov 26, 2023 10:51:31 GMT figo85 said:

I’ll go as far as to say he’ll still be in charge next August

It's fucking Sunday mate. No need.

[xchpotter]

Should go, but won’t. The mini purple patch has sadly bought him time (bit like the Watford win for Hughes). It will go to further shit, the board will fiddle while Rome burns and eventually act to late.

It’s what Stoke do and it’s just accepted 😔

[Gods]

Nov 26, 2023 10:07:22 GMT estrangedsonoffaye said:

Nowhere near. They’ve invested a lot in how Neil wants the football club to be run, he has a mate in the technical director position and Coates went out of his way to appoint him despite the timing being exceptionally questionable.

I think he’ll see out the season whatever happens. Can’t wait.

I agree John Coates is in on the joke, front and centre of it in fact.

To that end the present leadership team comprising shiny-top Alex, Tricky Ricky and US Jared, are here to stay for the forseeable future.

Do the 3 wise men know what they are doing I ask myself?

I doubt it.