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Post by peterthornesboots on Feb 22, 2024 18:35:37 GMT
With Tricky Ricky kicked out on his arse today, I would be sitting a little nervously if I was Jared.
I am not saying that every bad signing is his fault, but there is no doubt that terrible recruitment is why we are staring relegation in the face. He has certainly been part of that process.
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Post by leicspotter on Feb 22, 2024 18:40:39 GMT
I really hope we don’t do another scorched earth policy. In an ideal world we are bringing in 4-5 seasoned pros known for their workrate, determination and character. Too much turnover is proving to be our undoing. The big issue, recruitment wise, seems to hinge around the 'character' of some of these signings. Rumours abound, of course, but the likes of Mmaee, Vidigal and Haksaw don't really seem 'up for it' and Wesley only looked interested last time out. That said, Campbell looks disinterested all the time and he's been here for ages...but seems to want away. Junior, Junho, Gooch all look to have great attitdes, Burger has it in abundance too. One thing you knew you would get with TP and Lou, players who actually gave a shit
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Post by frasier37 on Feb 22, 2024 18:40:55 GMT
With Tricky Ricky kicked out on his arse today, I would be sitting a little nervously if I was Jared. I am not saying that every bad signing is his fault, but there is no doubt that terrible recruitment is why we are staring relegation in the face. He has certainly been part of that process. To be fair, for all we know he's given a list of players over to the manager and tricky and they've picked from that. Let's not get another lynch mob started for a bit
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Post by Ygor on Feb 22, 2024 23:40:55 GMT
Whilst I have been critical of recruitment as well as ownership, I get the impression that some of you seem to know exactly what Ricky's role/responsibilities are/were, as well as Dublin's and Schumacher's.
I confess to being confused at times over this so please, if there are job descriptions for their roles freely available, please point me in their direction so I can get a better grip of who is responsible for what.
Which brings me to where the buck stops. I don't need a job description to understand who presides over the sorry mess we find ourselves in since I believe it is the Coates's responsibility to ensure the club has the right infrastructure in place to be successful.
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Post by march4 on Feb 22, 2024 23:48:31 GMT
I really hope we don’t do another scorched earth policy. In an ideal world we are bringing in 4-5 seasoned pros known for their workrate, determination and character. Too much turnover is proving to be our undoing. The big issue, recruitment wise, seems to hinge around the 'character' of some of these signings. Rumours abound, of course, but the likes of Mmaee, Vidigal and Haksaw don't really seem 'up for it' and Wesley only looked interested last time out. That said, Campbell looks disinterested all the time and he's been here for ages...but seems to want away. Junior, Junho, Gooch all look to have great attitdes, Burger has it in abundance too. One thing you knew you would get with TP and Lou, players who actually gave a shit Junior and Gooch were surely AN signings.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Feb 23, 2024 7:18:26 GMT
The big issue, recruitment wise, seems to hinge around the 'character' of some of these signings. Rumours abound, of course, but the likes of Mmaee, Vidigal and Haksaw don't really seem 'up for it' and Wesley only looked interested last time out. That said, Campbell looks disinterested all the time and he's been here for ages...but seems to want away. Junior, Junho, Gooch all look to have great attitdes, Burger has it in abundance too. One thing you knew you would get with TP and Lou, players who actually gave a shit Junior and Gooch were surely AN signings. Gooch definitely....why Tchamadeau? Neil would be far more likely go the Enda Stevens/Johnson signing way...experience, passive, offers nowt
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 23, 2024 11:29:46 GMT
Junior and Gooch were surely AN signings. Gooch definitely....why Tchamadeau? Neil would be far more likely go the Enda Stevens/Johnson signing way...experience, passive, offers nowt I think he mentioned we were trying to sign him previously in the Jan before Jared came in.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 23, 2024 11:34:14 GMT
Junior and Gooch were surely AN signings. Gooch definitely....why Tchamadeau? Neil would be far more likely go the Enda Stevens/Johnson signing way...experience, passive, offers nowt They really don’t have to be either, do they? We have scouts. I had thought that we’d been following Junior for a while. The previous head of recruitment could have passed it on following scout recommendations. He won league 2 young player of the year last year. He was hardly an unknown.
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Post by march4 on Feb 23, 2024 12:50:29 GMT
Gooch definitely....why Tchamadeau? Neil would be far more likely go the Enda Stevens/Johnson signing way...experience, passive, offers nowt I think he mentioned we were trying to sign him previously in the Jan before Jared came in. That’s my recollection.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 23, 2024 12:59:50 GMT
I still think we signed a lot of good players, just not the key signings in the key areas, which lies with Ricky Martin not Dublin
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Post by yellowsnowman on Feb 23, 2024 13:40:32 GMT
We never bought for the key positions, there was no spine what so ever. We signed some quality players in,
Burger Junho Junior
And other than that the new signings are average at best. AN picked alot im sure apart from the over seas lads. More likely Dublin and RM.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 23, 2024 14:27:07 GMT
My understanding is that the manager gives Jared a list of the positions and type of player he wants ie a left footed attacking full back. The manager himself might have somebody in mind. Jared compiles a list who would fit the description then the DF, Dublin and manager sit down together to decide who to target and the DF then makes an offer and discusses term with the agent. If it looks like a runner the manager also may talk to the player. If it doesn't happen they move on to number two on the list. It's supposed to be a team effort with the manager having the final say. I have no idea whose job it is in the system to check the characters of targets or how often the DF turns down options because they are too expensive or the wrong age. We seemed to spend a lot of money on young, even teenage players,topped up with old experienced pros in the twilight of their careers and not many in the 23-26 age group. Who decided we should spread the money around a lot of unknown players with potential instead of one proven but developing player, a policy which again left us with a squad which was too big. Whose job was it to spot the flaws in Mmaee's character. Presumably the data only provides on the field stats. Should Dublin, the manager or the DF done the deeper research. Without knowing the answers we don't know how culpable Dublin was. He might have performed his part to perfection.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2024 9:45:43 GMT
This guy was responsible for the signing of Enda Stevens.
For that alone he should be fired.
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Post by gingerninja on Feb 24, 2024 9:55:02 GMT
I think Stevens was probably Neil's choice, as were Johnson and Pearson, no data required for those, he would have known them inside out anyway.
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Post by bolders on Feb 24, 2024 10:14:42 GMT
I think Stevens was probably Neil's choice, as were Johnson and Pearson, no data required for those, he would have known them inside out anyway. Gouch aswell and properly Hoever
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 24, 2024 10:24:02 GMT
This guy was responsible for the signing of Enda Stevens. For that alone he should be fired. Jared Dublin's job is purely to give options for the position and type of player the manager wants. The manager can also put forward a player he wants to consider. I've said this so often. So in the summer Neil wanted an attacking left footed left back. From his data base Dublin would make suggestions. These may have included Stevens amongst others or Neil added Stevens to the list. Martin would have looked at the cost and profile of the players, resale value, etc and crossed off any he didn't think fitted the club. Neil would then have made his choice in discussion with Dublin and Martin. Stevens may not have been the first choice, who may not have wanted to come or whose wage, and contract demands were beyond what Martin thought we should be offering. Through that process, and it may just have been Neil saying he wanted him above any body else we ended up with Dublin. Please explain how that is Dublin's fault. He does the donkey work and apart from offering advice on the stats has very little responsibility for decisions once he has made his suggestions. Neil and Martin were the senior men. There is even suggestion that Neil wanted Martin here because he knew he'd be able to get the players he wanted as they were friends.
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Post by datguy on Feb 24, 2024 10:35:49 GMT
This guy was responsible for the signing of Enda Stevens. For that alone he should be fired. That’s just not true, is it? The men responsible (plural) for signing Enda Stevens have both been sacked. Alex Neil and Ricky Martin have both lost their jobs.
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Post by frasier37 on Feb 24, 2024 10:54:58 GMT
This guy was responsible for the signing of Enda Stevens. For that alone he should be fired.
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 24, 2024 11:34:46 GMT
Any recruitment department will have a very simple input and output process.
The input side of things will be a list of requirements from the manager in terms of:
a) Positions to target b) Attributes for players within those positions - ie. Physical, Technical etc. c) Any other requirements based on location, age etc.
From there the recruitment people will find and whittle down targets to a list of 5 players or so for each position. From there that list will be ordered in terms of who to go for first etc.
Once those players have been picked and signed it's up to the manager to put them into a system that works for them.
For me there are too many variables on the coaching side to be able to confidently pin the tail on the recruitment 'donkey'.
1) Did the manager identify the right profile of player in the first instance? 2) Did the manager target the right positions? 3) Did the manager pick the right option from the 5 or so placed infront of him? Did he turn down better players or players more suited to his football or the club DNA? 4) Could the club afford the right option? 5) Did the Technical Director lay down the right process in terms of which positions to target for loans and which positions to target for permanent signings? 6) Did the coach play the players in the right system that suits them? 7) Did the manager and the Technical Director target the right types of characters for a) the system, b) the club, c) to mould with other players? 8) Most importantly - are the players left over from the previous manager and his requirements suited to the new manager and his preferred high octane system?
All those questions need answering before you even go down the road of "Were there better options than Linden Gooch, Ciaran Clark, Enda Stevens, Ben Pearson and Daniel Johnson?" that the last manager was clear front and centre of.
I get people are angry and frustrated but sometimes you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Even if we did do our due diligence on a lot of our signings, sometimes when you bring in as many as we did it doesn't work out and just naturally turns to shit. The huge benefit of Jared is that he managed to identify and bring in the likes of Wouter Burger and Bae Junho - both of which are gold dust and both will make us a profit going forwards. Those two in themselves are paying for this process. The longer we stick with it and get better people around it and the manager the better the overall process will be.
I don't think sacking Jared is the answer here.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2024 12:06:00 GMT
This guy was responsible for the signing of Enda Stevens. For that alone he should be fired. That’s just not true, is it? The men responsible (plural) for signing Enda Stevens have both been sacked. Alex Neil and Ricky Martin have both lost their jobs. It is true actually. He recommended him as he had worked with him at Sheffield United and knew him very well. He would have been fully aware of his injury problems and under no circumstances should he have recommended him to the technical director or manager.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 24, 2024 12:07:00 GMT
This guy was responsible for the signing of Enda Stevens. For that alone he should be fired. That’s just not true, is it? The men responsible (plural) for signing Enda Stevens have both been sacked. Alex Neil and Ricky Martin have both lost their jobs. Actually, I’m pretty sure it was a Dublin suggestion. He knew him from time at Sheff Utd. I’m sure that when he signed, there was a strong suggestion that Dublin played an important role in bringing him in. It’s up to the physios and club docs to consider his injuries though.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2024 12:16:23 GMT
And I also find it appaling that considering he's a stats man how on earth he didn't do a simple Google search on Mmaee which would have revealed he had issues at nearly every club he's been at before and should have never recommended him either.
All 3 of the clowns who fucked up the summer rebuild in such a massive way should be sacked and he's the only one still standing.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Feb 24, 2024 12:23:19 GMT
And I also find it appaling that considering he's a stats man how on earth he didn't do a simple Google search on Mmaee which would have revealed he had issues at nearly every club he's been at before and should have never recommended him either. All 3 of the clowns who fucked up the summer rebuild in such a massive way should be sacked and he's the only one still standing. He might have presented the player warts and all for others to make the final call. There's often an element of risk with players that have had issues in the past. Many of them mature or work better in a different environment. Most employers don't expect a candidate to be perfect but they would want to see how their prospective new experience would be more successful than when they had issues previously
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skidog
Academy Starlet
Posts: 159
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Post by skidog on Feb 24, 2024 12:24:37 GMT
Any recruitment department will have a very simple input and output process. The input side of things will be a list of requirements from the manager in terms of: a) Positions to target b) Attributes for players within those positions - ie. Physical, Technical etc. c) Any other requirements based on location, age etc. From there the recruitment people will find and whittle down targets to a list of 5 players or so for each position. From there that list will be ordered in terms of who to go for first etc. Once those players have been picked and signed it's up to the manager to put them into a system that works for them. For me there are too many variables on the coaching side to be able to confidently pin the tail on the recruitment 'donkey'. 1) Did the manager identify the right profile of player in the first instance? 2) Did the manager target the right positions? 3) Did the manager pick the right option from the 5 or so placed infront of him? Did he turn down better players or players more suited to his football or the club DNA? 4) Could the club afford the right option? 5) Did the Technical Director lay down the right process in terms of which positions to target for loans and which positions to target for permanent signings? 6) Did the coach play the players in the right system that suits them? 7) Did the manager and the Technical Director target the right types of characters for a) the system, b) the club, c) to mould with other players? 8) Most importantly - are the players left over from the previous manager and his requirements suited to the new manager and his preferred high octane system? All those questions need answering before you even go down the road of "Were there better options than Linden Gooch, Ciaran Clark, Enda Stevens, Ben Pearson and Daniel Johnson?" that the last manager was clear front and centre of. I get people are angry and frustrated but sometimes you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Even if we did do our due diligence on a lot of our signings, sometimes when you bring in as many as we did it doesn't work out and just naturally turns to shit. The huge benefit of Jared is that he managed to identify and bring in the likes of Wouter Burger and Bae Junho - both of which are gold dust and both will make us a profit going forwards. Those two in themselves are paying for this process. The longer we stick with it and get better people around it and the manager the better the overall process will be. I don't think sacking Jared is the answer here. Some salient points there Mrs Dublin 😁
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Post by thornestein on Feb 24, 2024 12:41:35 GMT
he’s got to take a lot of responsibility regarding the mess we’re in , most were his recommendations, he’s surely got go as well
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 24, 2024 12:54:58 GMT
And I also find it appaling that considering he's a stats man how on earth he didn't do a simple Google search on Mmaee which would have revealed he had issues at nearly every club he's been at before and should have never recommended him either. All 3 of the clowns who fucked up the summer rebuild in such a massive way should be sacked and he's the only one still standing. He might have presented the player warts and all for others to make the final call. There's often an element of risk with players that have had issues in the past. Many of them mature or work better in a different environment. Most employers don't expect a candidate to be perfect but they would want to see how their prospective new experience would be more successful than when they had issues previously Arnautovic and Pennant both had dubious histories but both did their job for Stoke and there are probably players who came to us with brilliant records and did nothing, Dwight Gayle being the most recent.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 24, 2024 13:02:40 GMT
And I also find it appaling that considering he's a stats man how on earth he didn't do a simple Google search on Mmaee which would have revealed he had issues at nearly every club he's been at before and should have never recommended him either. All 3 of the clowns who fucked up the summer rebuild in such a massive way should be sacked and he's the only one still standing. Does being a twat come under stats 🤔😂
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 24, 2024 13:05:34 GMT
he’s got to take a lot of responsibility regarding the mess we’re in , most were his recommendations, he’s surely got go as well We're guessing most though aren't we, Hoever, Johnson, Rose, Jr, Gooch probably weren't, after that it's guess work for the most part, just because they're from overseas doesn't automatically mean it was down to him but even then there's two other people above him that actually make the decision.
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Post by chumley on Feb 24, 2024 14:24:32 GMT
I think Stevens was probably Neil's choice, as were Johnson and Pearson, no data required for those, he would have known them inside out anyway. Trouble being he knew them a few years ago when they were half arsed to try. Older and less energetic now it seems.
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Post by thepottypotter on Feb 24, 2024 15:54:38 GMT
Fire Dublin. Not getting us a left back, competent keeper or another CB after 2 windows.
Put us massively in the shit.
Has to go.
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