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Post by cvillestokie on Dec 28, 2023 14:06:00 GMT
Loan with a longer term contract as neither have a future here. We can live in hope as realistically we have one option atm although I think Mmaee is getting better and will score goals but he needs some help and players around him A League 1 side might take Gayle on but how much of his £20k a week (that we pay, Newcastle pay him far far more) would they pay? 10% if we are very lucky, can't see it happening Wes is on even more money Isn’t Gayle out of contract in the summer? Wes is only here until the summer. Why would anyone bother?
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Post by stokecitytalke on Dec 28, 2023 14:17:23 GMT
I don’t think Wesley will be here. His agent will be trying to tout him around to a club abroad as he’s not playing here and has a short term contract With any luck we can then bring someone else in on loan with a view to a permanent signing He's our player, we took over his contract to the end of the season so he won't be here next season and isn't taking a loan spot.
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Post by Caddick988 on Dec 28, 2023 14:30:07 GMT
I'm all for Jared still and I'm happy to give him more time to try and find some hidden gems. Out of the players we've brought in I think Burger and Bae are really good prospects and I think Mmaee will come good given more time. Think for the money we've paid for Vidigal that he's been a really good pick up too and hopefully Schumacher can get him scoring consistently. I don't think all our signings will be a success, they never are, but it's the profile of player which we're signing now which gives me confidence. Less aging players with no up sale and more exiciting prospects who could take us forward and help with FFP in the future.
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Post by idle on Dec 28, 2023 14:58:26 GMT
You do when you're desperate, as AN clearly was. £36k/wk isn't that much when you pay no transfer fee. He will have cost us around £1.4M for the duration of the contract. You don't get a decent striker for that. Even BTA would have cost us ~£6M just for this year (minus any resale value, but I know we disagree on how much that would be) BTA wouldn’t have cost £6M and the outlay would have been spread over the length of his contract and yes due to his age it would be highly unlikely to not have a reasonable sell on value even if he wasn’t a success, see Surridge, Doughty. Wesley is the complete opposite there is very little upside in the deal. If he’s shit like he is he’s a millstone if he’s successful he walks to a bigger club in the Summer for free. I really wish we’d learn our lessons and stop doing deals with no upside. The deals that were billed as being for the here and now have been crap. £5M transfer fee + £20k/wk (+any sign-on and agent fees) isn't unreasonable, even if FFP allows you to spread the cost over the length of the contract. It's still a £6M outlay THIS season. I agree Wesley has been a poor deal, but if he had scored 6-7 goals and hadn't looked like a statue, it probably would have been worth it for £1.4M. You always take a chance on footballers, they could break their ankles at the first training session and be out for the season. Of course it all happened because of poor planning, even if I give them some slack for needing 17 new players in in the summer, along with new coaches and other staff. Have you learned anything yet, JC? But back to the issue at hand, I don't believe Wesley was a JD signing. Him, Pearson, Johnson, McNally, Gooch and Rose was ANs signings, and not "data driven".
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Post by stokefanone on Dec 28, 2023 16:54:25 GMT
I'm all for Jared still and I'm happy to give him more time to try and find some hidden gems. Out of the players we've brought in I think Burger and Bae are really good prospects and I think Mmaee will come good given more time. Think for the money we've paid for Vidigal that he's been a really good pick up too and hopefully Schumacher can get him scoring consistently. I don't think all our signings will be a success, they never are, but it's the profile of player which we're signing now which gives me confidence. Less aging players with no up sale and more exiciting prospects who could take us forward and help with FFP in the future. You have missed Junior and Jolic as hidden gems. Jolic is starting to show good ability in the reserves and Junior is top drawer.
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Post by collo68 on Dec 28, 2023 17:04:16 GMT
I don’t think Wesley will be here. His agent will be trying to tout him around to a club abroad as he’s not playing here and has a short term contract With any luck we can then bring someone else in on loan with a view to a permanent signing He's our player, we took over his contract to the end of the season so he won't be here next season and isn't taking a loan spot. Sorry I know he’s our player just meant try and get someone in on loan as we haven’t got much more cash to spend
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 28, 2023 17:06:46 GMT
He's our player, we took over his contract to the end of the season so he won't be here next season and isn't taking a loan spot. Sorry I know he’s our player just meant try and get someone in on loan as we haven’t got much more cash to spend I think there's still a decent amount left but I'm only going off us still trying to spend on the last day of the summer window.
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Post by wilcopotter on Dec 28, 2023 20:57:45 GMT
Wesley last season scored 3 goals in 37 games for Levante in the Spanish second division. It worries me how our Recruitment Team thought how he was going to be our goal scoring machine based on that “data”. He wasn't brought in as a goal scoring machine - he was brought in as an outlet when Plan A wasn't working. Wesley was brought in specifically to be a squad player - he was never intended to be our main goal scorer. In those terms he's done a job. Whether the new manager thinks we need that sort of player going forward is another matter. Wesley always was a stop gap and will be gone in the summer. I really can't see why him being underwhelming is such an issue - he was a squad filler. Not being funny but……. what job has he actually done? No goals, no assists, hardly any starts and no impact when he comes on, at high expense (apparently). May as well have had one of the club shop lads fill the squad for what he has done.
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Post by wilcopotter on Dec 28, 2023 20:59:17 GMT
Wesley last season scored 3 goals in 37 games for Levante in the Spanish second division. It worries me how our Recruitment Team thought how he was going to be our goal scoring machine based on that “data”. I don’t think he was signed to get 20 a season, was definitely bought as ‘another option/plan B’ to go longer to either see games out of to pump the ball forward with the hope he’d chip in with a few goals. Don’t think we had a plan A with Alex, let alone a plan B.
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Post by southernish on Dec 29, 2023 11:19:19 GMT
I don’t think he was signed to get 20 a season, was definitely bought as ‘another option/plan B’ to go longer to either see games out of to pump the ball forward with the hope he’d chip in with a few goals. Don’t think we had a plan A with Alex, let alone a plan B. Exact same thing my PNE fan friends said when we originally signed AN. Never a Plan B and we saw it. If we went behind nothing changed.
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Post by skip on Feb 12, 2024 15:42:42 GMT
I've just had a look through Dublin's LinkedIn profile and whilst his education reads as pretty impressive on the top line to be fair, but I was more interested to learn more about his Level 1 in Player Identification qualification that he lists amongst his attributes.
PFSA LEVEL 1 TALENT IDENTIFICATION IN FOOTBALL - CREATED BY EXPERIENCED PREMIER LEAGUE TALENT IDENTIFICATION SPECIALISTS
It costs fifty quid, takes roughly 4-6 hours to complete, is undertaken online and is, cough, "a great stepping stone into a career in football."
It is the first of twelve qualification available through the PFSA. Just eleven more to go, Jared.
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Post by s7oke on Feb 12, 2024 15:45:44 GMT
I've just had a look through Dublin's LinkedIn profile and whilst his education reads as pretty impressive on the top line to be fair, but I was more interested to learn more about his Level 1 in Player Identification qualification that he lists amongst his attributes. PFSA LEVEL 1 TALENT IDENTIFICATION IN FOOTBALL - CREATED BY EXPERIENCED PREMIER LEAGUE TALENT IDENTIFICATION SPECIALISTS It costs fifty quid, takes roughly 4-6 hours to complete, is undertaken online and is, cough, "a great stepping stone into a career in football." It is the first of twelve qualification available through the PFSA. Just eleven more to go, Jared. 😱🤬
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 12, 2024 15:50:39 GMT
I had a quick look and couldn’t see a thread for him. I personally think he deserves one as he’s been an absolute revelation (along with AN+RM) Whilst we’re not sure how good and effective the recruitment has been, and time will tell. I think most of us can agree we are now going in the direction we all thought we should have been years ago. In the player interviews you can tell he’s incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about the job he’s doing and has been on the trails of players we’ve never even heard of for years. Some of the players we’ve been linked with and the creativity behind ‘getting deals done’ (I’m looking at Wesley specifically) has been really refreshing, long may it continue. Not having a go at you mate (none of us could have predicted this) but this hasn't aged well....
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Post by potterrotter on Feb 12, 2024 17:09:16 GMT
I've just had a look through Dublin's LinkedIn profile and whilst his education reads as pretty impressive on the top line to be fair, but I was more interested to learn more about his Level 1 in Player Identification qualification that he lists amongst his attributes. PFSA LEVEL 1 TALENT IDENTIFICATION IN FOOTBALL - CREATED BY EXPERIENCED PREMIER LEAGUE TALENT IDENTIFICATION SPECIALISTS It costs fifty quid, takes roughly 4-6 hours to complete, is undertaken online and is, cough, "a great stepping stone into a career in football." It is the first of twelve qualification available through the PFSA. Just eleven more to go, Jared. If this is true. It could be the next big documentary on Netflix
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Feb 12, 2024 17:25:25 GMT
I've just had a look through Dublin's LinkedIn profile and whilst his education reads as pretty impressive on the top line to be fair, but I was more interested to learn more about his Level 1 in Player Identification qualification that he lists amongst his attributes. PFSA LEVEL 1 TALENT IDENTIFICATION IN FOOTBALL - CREATED BY EXPERIENCED PREMIER LEAGUE TALENT IDENTIFICATION SPECIALISTS It costs fifty quid, takes roughly 4-6 hours to complete, is undertaken online and is, cough, "a great stepping stone into a career in football." It is the first of twelve qualification available through the PFSA. Just eleven more to go, Jared. And that was all that was needed for JC to entrust our recruitment to him....if only JC had done a Google check.
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 12, 2024 17:28:38 GMT
I had a quick look and couldn’t see a thread for him. I personally think he deserves one as he’s been an absolute revelation (along with AN+RM) Whilst we’re not sure how good and effective the recruitment has been, and time will tell. I think most of us can agree we are now going in the direction we all thought we should have been years ago. In the player interviews you can tell he’s incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about the job he’s doing and has been on the trails of players we’ve never even heard of for years. Some of the players we’ve been linked with and the creativity behind ‘getting deals done’ (I’m looking at Wesley specifically) has been really refreshing, long may it continue. Not having a go at you mate (none of us could have predicted this) but this hasn't aged well.... I dunno; it’s difficult. Of the deals he definitely had involvement in the hits hit hard (Burger, Bae, Junior) and this misses missed big (Mmaee, Jojic, Leris? Vidigal?) But the same for Neil faithfuls except average to bad (Gooch, Rose, Pearson, Johnson). We did what clubs rarely do. Recruiting 18+ players in one hit. Compromises will have had to be made to get players in, unfortunately we made too many in the wrong areas. The great reset was sold as a great opportunity, but in reality I bet it was chaos (resulting in what we’ve got now). My original point does stand though, it’s more about the process than the players and the creativity shown which I still stand behind. We just need to do genuine due diligence, to identify leaders and good characters.
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Post by thisisouryear on Feb 12, 2024 17:43:05 GMT
Jared was stuck in an impossible position of having to sign so many players, being able to focus on a few players will surely benefit him more. There was always going to be more misses than hits given we didn't have 11 players to put on the pitch in the summer. He has managed to get a few gems though so he deserves a bit more time. It was only ever a foundation to work from but being able to narrow his search down to particular areas will help you'd hope.
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Post by citynickscfc on Feb 12, 2024 18:11:10 GMT
Jared was stuck in an impossible position of having to sign so many players, being able to focus on a few players will surely benefit him more. There was always going to be more misses than hits given we didn't have 11 players to put on the pitch in the summer. He has managed to get a few gems though so he deserves a bit more time. It was only ever a foundation to work from but being able to narrow his search down to particular areas will help you'd hope. I don't see any gems sorry. The best we have so far could be likened to the signings of Danny Pugh, Michael tongue, or even Peter kopteff. The latter being out of nowhere and about as effective as haksabanovic. I've seen 0 product from any of them but people still talk about gems. It's horse shit.
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Post by etebojan on Feb 12, 2024 18:22:34 GMT
Jared was stuck in an impossible position of having to sign so many players, being able to focus on a few players will surely benefit him more. There was always going to be more misses than hits given we didn't have 11 players to put on the pitch in the summer. He has managed to get a few gems though so he deserves a bit more time. It was only ever a foundation to work from but being able to narrow his search down to particular areas will help you'd hope. He's definitely found a few Gems: Bae, Burger and Junior, at the end of the day he reports into Ricky and also services specific requests from whoever is the current manager/head coach... but you can bet Ricky would throw him under the bus first if he thought it might save his skin
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Post by idle on Feb 12, 2024 18:23:01 GMT
Jared was stuck in an impossible position of having to sign so many players, being able to focus on a few players will surely benefit him more. There was always going to be more misses than hits given we didn't have 11 players to put on the pitch in the summer. He has managed to get a few gems though so he deserves a bit more time. It was only ever a foundation to work from but being able to narrow his search down to particular areas will help you'd hope. I don't see any gems sorry. The best we have so far could be likened to the signings of Danny Pugh, Michael tongue, or even Peter kopteff. The latter being out of nowhere and about as effective as haksabanovic. I've seen 0 product from any of them but people still talk about gems. It's horse shit. If you don't see that Burger is the best midfielder we've had since relegation I don't know what to tell you.
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Post by mcw on Feb 12, 2024 18:34:01 GMT
I don't see any gems sorry. The best we have so far could be likened to the signings of Danny Pugh, Michael tongue, or even Peter kopteff. The latter being out of nowhere and about as effective as haksabanovic. I've seen 0 product from any of them but people still talk about gems. It's horse shit. If you don't see that Burger is the best midfielder we've had since relegation I don't know what to tell you. It's difficult to gauge players when the team as a whole is not operating in a cohesive manner. All you can go off is application and the way players impact the game through their own individual efforts. Burger stands out in relation to effort and trying to drive the team on as well as producing some moments of quality in games. Bae looks like he puts in the effort too and in a better functioning team he could be a real talent. Junior, raw, but has pace/power and seems to genuinely give it 100% and has the ability to develop into something special too. The rest, utter meh. I feel slightly sorry for Wilmot/Rose/McNally as I can see a scenario where they could be fairly dependable if the formation we are playing is not asking them to basically defend one-on-one at best and get dragged all over the pitch.
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Post by thisisouryear on Feb 12, 2024 18:44:16 GMT
Jared was stuck in an impossible position of having to sign so many players, being able to focus on a few players will surely benefit him more. There was always going to be more misses than hits given we didn't have 11 players to put on the pitch in the summer. He has managed to get a few gems though so he deserves a bit more time. It was only ever a foundation to work from but being able to narrow his search down to particular areas will help you'd hope. He's definitely found a few Gems: Bae, Burger and Junior, at the end of the day he reports into Ricky and also services specific requests from whoever is the current manager/head coach... but you can bet Ricky would throw him under the bus first if he thought it might save his skin It all seems to come down to the lack of experienced football people in the club. Even Ricky would benefit from having more experience around him. People who everyone can turn to, people who can offer advice, people who know the ins and outs of the game. From the outside looking in we seem very light on experience and more like a load of people thrown here and there because they have particular skills which are just to do a job even if they don't have much football knowledge. The lack of balance in the background can be the only problem because it's not money, it's not the manager, it's a little bit players but it was happening before Ricky and Jared were here so it can't just be them either.
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 12, 2024 19:05:16 GMT
Not having a go at you mate (none of us could have predicted this) but this hasn't aged well.... I dunno; it’s difficult. Of the deals he definitely had involvement in the hits hit hard (Burger, Bae, Junior) and this misses missed big (Mmaee, Jojic, Leris? Vidigal?) But the same for Neil faithfuls except average to bad (Gooch, Rose, Pearson, Johnson). We did what clubs rarely do. Recruiting 18+ players in one hit. Compromises will have had to be made to get players in, unfortunately we made too many in the wrong areas. The great reset was sold as a great opportunity, but in reality I bet it was chaos (resulting in what we’ve got now). My original point does stand though, it’s more about the process than the players and the creativity shown which I still stand behind. We just need to do genuine due diligence, to identify leaders and good characters. I thought this was an interesting conversation to add to my points above.
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 12, 2024 19:11:21 GMT
Who makes the decisions? Is he not just a glorified chief scout?
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Post by march4 on Feb 12, 2024 19:14:17 GMT
Jared was stuck in an impossible position of having to sign so many players, being able to focus on a few players will surely benefit him more. There was always going to be more misses than hits given we didn't have 11 players to put on the pitch in the summer. He has managed to get a few gems though so he deserves a bit more time. It was only ever a foundation to work from but being able to narrow his search down to particular areas will help you'd hope. He's definitely found a few Gems: Bae, Burger and Junior, at the end of the day he reports into Ricky and also services specific requests from whoever is the current manager/head coach... but you can bet Ricky would throw him under the bus first if he thought it might save his skin Junior and Bae are still settling into Championship football so only Burger is making a leading impact at present. And I would have thought AN and his team knew about Junior anyway and his signing could easily have been one of his. So that leaves Burger, Bae for the future and not a lot else.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 12, 2024 20:33:02 GMT
I may be a mile off with my understanding of Jared’s role.
I would expect the manger and Technical Director discuss and agree upon the style of play and their requirements (preferences) of a player profile they want within a budget to meet their vision.
Jared would then search and scrutinise different data bases to identify with their preferences and financial parameters.
He would produce a potential list of targets on their behalf, then it’s over to them.
Obvious or misguided?
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Post by danceswithclams on Feb 12, 2024 20:39:55 GMT
I may be a mile off with my understanding of Jared’s role. I would expect the manger and Technical Director discuss and agree upon the style of play and their requirements (preferences) of a player profile they want within a budget to meet their vision. Jared would then search and scrutinise different data bases to identify with their preferences and financial parameters. He would produce a potential list of targets on their behalf, then it’s over to them. Obvious or misguided? That's my understanding of how it works. I wouldn't imagine it's him deciding that we don't need to sign a left back for example. A lot of the signings we've made though have turned out to be utter shit. However, we're not party to the variables/search criteria he was/is working to (i.e. "find us a flighty winger under age of 25 for less than £1m").
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Post by tuum on Feb 12, 2024 20:43:28 GMT
I may be a mile off with my understanding of Jared’s role. I would expect the manger and Technical Director discuss and agree upon the style of play and their requirements (preferences) of a player profile they want within a budget to meet their vision. Jared would then search and scrutinise different data bases to identify with their preferences and financial parameters. He would produce a potential list of targets on their behalf, then it’s over to them. Obvious or misguided? No. That's how I see it. I think Jared is getting stick that is not really warranted. The only thing he could be criticised for is not doing due diligence on character but even then we don't know what his individual player dossier says about character/temperament etc when he handed it over to Tricky and AN. For me, it is is the manager who selects the players with input from Ricky. It is then up to Ricky to negotiate the deal.
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Post by idle on Feb 12, 2024 21:21:57 GMT
If you don't see that Burger is the best midfielder we've had since relegation I don't know what to tell you. It's difficult to gauge players when the team as a whole is not operating in a cohesive manner. All you can go off is application and the way players impact the game through their own individual efforts. Burger stands out in relation to effort and trying to drive the team on as well as producing some moments of quality in games. Bae looks like he puts in the effort too and in a better functioning team he could be a real talent. Junior, raw, but has pace/power and seems to genuinely give it 100% and has the ability to develop into something special too. The rest, utter meh. I feel slightly sorry for Wilmot/Rose/McNally as I can see a scenario where they could be fairly dependable if the formation we are playing is not asking them to basically defend one-on-one at best and get dragged all over the pitch. I agree with all this, it was just citynicks saying that Pugh, Kopteff and Tongue are just as good as Burger that ticked me off. I liked all of those, but they aren't anywhere near Burger, and probably not better than Bae or Junior (and those two have time on their side). I also think all our CBs would be great playing alongside a defensive leader, but we've got none. Some thought Clark was going to be that, but he's never seemed like that to me. Just a Newcastle has-been, never really good enough to stand out there and now way past it. I want to know who said "fuck the LB and CB, we'll go for a winger", even if Million may be a good signing. It was not what we needed, although I suspect he'll chip in with some goals and assists. There were several LBs available who could have done an ok job until the summer, for example that dude from Luton, Giles? He also comes from a no-nonsense, hardworking environment, which is sorely lacking at CW, with a few exceptions. Would have been a perfect signing, loan or otherwise.
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Post by citynickscfc on Feb 12, 2024 21:28:24 GMT
It's difficult to gauge players when the team as a whole is not operating in a cohesive manner. All you can go off is application and the way players impact the game through their own individual efforts. Burger stands out in relation to effort and trying to drive the team on as well as producing some moments of quality in games. Bae looks like he puts in the effort too and in a better functioning team he could be a real talent. Junior, raw, but has pace/power and seems to genuinely give it 100% and has the ability to develop into something special too. The rest, utter meh. I feel slightly sorry for Wilmot/Rose/McNally as I can see a scenario where they could be fairly dependable if the formation we are playing is not asking them to basically defend one-on-one at best and get dragged all over the pitch. I agree with all this, it was just citynicks saying that Pugh, Kopteff and Tongue are just as good as Burger that ticked me off. I liked all of those, but they aren't anywhere near Burger, and probably not better than Bae or Junior (and those two have time on their side). I also think all our CBs would be great playing alongside a defensive leader, but we've got none. Some thought Clark was going to be that, but he's never seemed like that to me. Just a Newcastle has-been, never really good enough to stand out there and now way past it. I want to know who said "fuck the LB and CB, we'll go for a winger", even if Million may be a good signing. It was not what we needed, although I suspect he'll chip in with some goals and assists. There were several LBs available who could have done an ok job until the summer, for example that dude from Luton, Giles? He also comes from a no-nonsense, hardworking environment, which is sorely lacking at CW, with a few exceptions. Would have been a perfect signing, loan or otherwise. Pugh was for a long period a top half champ player? Tongue was a top quality champ player on the prem fringes. Kopteff I was referring to as similar to what we have. So yes 2/3 are better than we currently have. Bae and Burger have shown glimpses of being both good and shit. No one knows if they will make it, but as it stands Tongues career is one that Burger would do well to replicate never mind succeed. Whelan was 10x the player burger is. By all means talk about potential, but look at Jamie Vardy, look at John Walters, potential isn't always obvious and right now our squad is staring league 1 in the face. Not 1 player gets in a top half champ side with any regulatory. On potential? No one even knows. Based on facts, they are all doing very very poorly. How many has Bae scored and assisted again?
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