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Post by femark on Jul 28, 2023 8:22:57 GMT
You could argue that the only way to change their culture is to get involved with it and engage with them. He's not going to do that sat on his arse is he? If I think it'd make a blind bit of difference then I'd agree but it won't. If everybody thought like that then nothing would change...
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Post by Marc01 on Jul 28, 2023 8:23:12 GMT
At least Hendo won't have to worry about taking a knee or wearing those pesky rainbow armbands or laces or more. I’ve read he’s on close to £700,000 a week. Absolutely bonkers. Just heard these payments* are (as someone in football once demanded) “NETTO”. That’s 109 Million tax free… plus any crazy signing on fees or “loyalty” bonus. * Earnings / wages don’t seem to be a suitable description 🙂
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 28, 2023 8:24:27 GMT
If I think it'd make a blind bit of difference then I'd agree but it won't. If everybody thought like that then nothing would change... Indeed but in this case if he spoke up he would be sacked or arrested. He won't do it. If he does then fair play to him but taking their money in the first place is the biggest insult to these communities. Absolute hypocrite.
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Post by femark on Jul 28, 2023 8:30:26 GMT
If everybody thought like that then nothing would change... Indeed but in this case if he spoke up he would be sacked or arrested. He won't do it. If he does then fair play to him but taking their money in the first place is the biggest insult to these communities. Absolute hypocrite. How can you call him a hypocrite when you don't even know how he will conduct himself. I'd be amazed if they arrested him and if they sacked him, at least he would have made a point and got people talking about it. It's likely that he won't speak up, but you can't judge him before the fact.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 28, 2023 8:32:13 GMT
Indeed but in this case if he spoke up he would be sacked or arrested. He won't do it. If he does then fair play to him but taking their money in the first place is the biggest insult to these communities. Absolute hypocrite. How can you call him a hypocrite when you don't even know how he will conduct himself. I'd be amazed if they arrested him and if they sacked him, at least he would have made a point and got people talking about it. It's likely that he won't speak up, but you can't judge him before the fact. Because he's gone there when he absolutely shouldn't do. Southgate should drop him now. I mean it should have been done for footballing reasons about 18 months ago but this should speed that up.
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Post by SCFC92 on Jul 28, 2023 8:34:10 GMT
Indeed but in this case if he spoke up he would be sacked or arrested. He won't do it. If he does then fair play to him but taking their money in the first place is the biggest insult to these communities. Absolute hypocrite. How can you call him a hypocrite when you don't even know how he will conduct himself. I'd be amazed if they arrested him and if they sacked him, at least he would have made a point and got people talking about it. It's likely that he won't speak up, but you can't judge him before the fact. Or, all of these high profile footballers turn to these clubs and say, no amount of money will get me there until your stances on the rights of women and marginalised communities changes, and say it publicly. Of course he isn't going to stand up, he is there to rake in the cash to fill his already hefty pockets and balls to anyone I have said to represent previously.
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Post by femark on Jul 28, 2023 8:34:50 GMT
How can you call him a hypocrite when you don't even know how he will conduct himself. I'd be amazed if they arrested him and if they sacked him, at least he would have made a point and got people talking about it. It's likely that he won't speak up, but you can't judge him before the fact. Because he's gone there when he absolutely shouldn't do. Southgate should drop him now. I mean it should have been done for footballing reasons about 18 months ago but this should speed that up. If he goes there and speaks out about the saudi treatment of homosexuals, will you still think he shouldn't have gone?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 28, 2023 8:39:24 GMT
Because he's gone there when he absolutely shouldn't do. Southgate should drop him now. I mean it should have been done for footballing reasons about 18 months ago but this should speed that up. If he goes there and speaks out about the saudi treatment of homosexuals, will you still think he shouldn't have gone? Yes. But I will have a bit of respect for him if he does.
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Post by skip on Jul 28, 2023 8:47:24 GMT
Because he's not a multi millionaire already. It's a slap in the face to the communities he has championed. You could argue that the only way to change their culture is to get involved with it and engage with them. He's not going to do that sat on his arse is he? Respectfully, that's not how change happens. Publicly refusing their offer on the grounds of human rights instead would be a start.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2023 8:48:34 GMT
Why? In the last few years of his professional career and been offered a contract that will set his kids and their kids, and their kids up for life. He must be a right prick 🤣 As throughout his captaincy at Liverpool he has declared himself as an ally of the LGBTQ society, and this clearly was very VERY shallow when you have basically chosen money over morals. A country where it is illegal to be homosexual and he has been wooed by the cash to go there. The marginalised groups need people to actually stand up for them, especially those in the public eye. It's not as if he was struggling before, 200k per week, he is set up for life anyway. It's greed and it stinks! I've heard a few people from the LGBTQ society speaking and they see it the opposite way, and are saying that it can be a good thing that people like Henderson are going over there and hopefully helping to change their beliefs. Whether it will or not is a debate, not for this board, or for me personally. As far as the money is concerned, it makes no odds that he's already a multi-millionaire, no matter how much money you earn, the vast majority of people will always want to earn more, thats just how it is. As a footballer in the twilight of his career, I see no issue with going over there for a few years, taking whatever riches are being thrown at him and then setting his family up for generations to come. If that's his motive for going then fair play to him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 28, 2023 8:50:25 GMT
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Post by skip on Jul 28, 2023 8:55:36 GMT
As throughout his captaincy at Liverpool he has declared himself as an ally of the LGBTQ society, and this clearly was very VERY shallow when you have basically chosen money over morals. A country where it is illegal to be homosexual and he has been wooed by the cash to go there. The marginalised groups need people to actually stand up for them, especially those in the public eye. It's not as if he was struggling before, 200k per week, he is set up for life anyway. It's greed and it stinks! I've heard a few people from the LGBTQ society speaking and they see it the opposite way, and are saying that it can be a good thing that people like Henderson are going over there and hopefully helping to change their beliefs. Whether it will or not is a debate, not for this board, or for me personally. As far as the money is concerned, it makes no odds that he's already a multi-millionaire, no matter how much money you earn, the vast majority of people will always want to earn more, thats just how it is. As a footballer in the twilight of his career, I see no issue with going over there for a few years, taking whatever riches are being thrown at him and then setting his family up for generations to come. If that's his motive for going then fair play to him. If you watched Newsnight this week, Tuesday I think it was, and heard the nonsense Saudi representative for Sports Media PR or some such role, Henderson going there won't make the smallest of positive differences. The most the guest speaker could muster was something spurious like comparing England and test cricket to sports washing. Henderson going their is a coup for them.
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Post by SCFC92 on Jul 28, 2023 9:37:02 GMT
As throughout his captaincy at Liverpool he has declared himself as an ally of the LGBTQ society, and this clearly was very VERY shallow when you have basically chosen money over morals. A country where it is illegal to be homosexual and he has been wooed by the cash to go there. The marginalised groups need people to actually stand up for them, especially those in the public eye. It's not as if he was struggling before, 200k per week, he is set up for life anyway. It's greed and it stinks! I've heard a few people from the LGBTQ society speaking and they see it the opposite way, and are saying that it can be a good thing that people like Henderson are going over there and hopefully helping to change their beliefs. Whether it will or not is a debate, not for this board, or for me personally. As far as the money is concerned, it makes no odds that he's already a multi-millionaire, no matter how much money you earn, the vast majority of people will always want to earn more, thats just how it is. As a footballer in the twilight of his career, I see no issue with going over there for a few years, taking whatever riches are being thrown at him and then setting his family up for generations to come. If that's his motive for going then fair play to him. I as a member of the LGBTQ society see it the other way. It's abandoning your morals and principles for money, when you already have your life set to be comfortable. It shows the support for people such as myself can be bought and sold and it's gross. My existence is illegal over there, think about that. The stronger message would be to publicly state, no, not going, not for any amount of money. I'll stay in the UK / Europe or the USA and cream in 100's of thousands a week anyway.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jul 28, 2023 9:43:41 GMT
You could argue that the only way to change their culture is to get involved with it and engage with them. He's not going to do that sat on his arse is he? Respectfully, that's not how change happens. Publicly refusing their offer on the grounds of human rights instead would be a start. There have been small changes and events in these sportswashing countries thanks to the likes of Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton speaking out when the F1 circuit goes there. It all helps. A fortnight ago, Hamilton wore a rainbow-coloured helmet for the race in Qatar, with the words "we stand together" printed on the back. He will wear the same helmet this weekend and then again in Abu Dhabi for the final race.
"Do I feel comfortable here [in Saudi Arabia]? I wouldn’t say I do, but it is not my choice to be here," the Mercedes driver said. "The sport has taken the choice to be here, and whether it is right or wrong, while we are here I think it is important that we do try and raise awareness.
"If anyone wants to take the time to go and read what the law is for the LGBTQ+ community, it’s pretty terrifying. There’s changes that need to be made."www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vettel-hosts-women-only-karting-race-in-saudi-arabia/6843234/www.givemesport.com/1796382-f1-lewis-hamilton-sebastian-vettel-endorse-lgbtq-womens-rights-ahead-of-saudi-gp/We don't know what Henderson will or won't do yet, but while he has more of a choice in where he works, I think people are too quick to judge when we don't know how he's going to handle the situation. Who knows, perhaps he'll donate a proportion of his salary increase to LGBTQ+ and womens' rights.
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Post by skip on Jul 28, 2023 11:29:10 GMT
Respectfully, that's not how change happens. Publicly refusing their offer on the grounds of human rights instead would be a start. There have been small changes and events in these sportswashing countries thanks to the likes of Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton speaking out when the F1 circuit goes there. It all helps. A fortnight ago, Hamilton wore a rainbow-coloured helmet for the race in Qatar, with the words "we stand together" printed on the back. He will wear the same helmet this weekend and then again in Abu Dhabi for the final race.
"Do I feel comfortable here [in Saudi Arabia]? I wouldn’t say I do, but it is not my choice to be here," the Mercedes driver said. "The sport has taken the choice to be here, and whether it is right or wrong, while we are here I think it is important that we do try and raise awareness.
"If anyone wants to take the time to go and read what the law is for the LGBTQ+ community, it’s pretty terrifying. There’s changes that need to be made."www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vettel-hosts-women-only-karting-race-in-saudi-arabia/6843234/www.givemesport.com/1796382-f1-lewis-hamilton-sebastian-vettel-endorse-lgbtq-womens-rights-ahead-of-saudi-gp/We don't know what Henderson will or won't do yet, but while he has more of a choice in where he works, I think people are too quick to judge when we don't know how he's going to handle the situation. Who knows, perhaps he'll donate a proportion of his salary increase to LGBTQ+ and womens' rights.Fair play to Hamilton, agree entirely. And (as emboldened) if Henderson does something overtly proactive, visibly supporting LGBTQ+ and Women's rights, I'll be the first to applaud him, but in all likelihood I doubt it. Would love to be proved wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2023 11:55:44 GMT
I've heard a few people from the LGBTQ society speaking and they see it the opposite way, and are saying that it can be a good thing that people like Henderson are going over there and hopefully helping to change their beliefs. Whether it will or not is a debate, not for this board, or for me personally. As far as the money is concerned, it makes no odds that he's already a multi-millionaire, no matter how much money you earn, the vast majority of people will always want to earn more, thats just how it is. As a footballer in the twilight of his career, I see no issue with going over there for a few years, taking whatever riches are being thrown at him and then setting his family up for generations to come. If that's his motive for going then fair play to him. I as a member of the LGBTQ society see it the other way. It's abandoning your morals and principles for money, when you already have your life set to be comfortable. It shows the support for people such as myself can be bought and sold and it's gross. My existence is illegal over there, think about that. The stronger message would be to publicly state, no, not going, not for any amount of money. I'll stay in the UK / Europe or the USA and cream in 100's of thousands a week anyway. That's all fair enough mate, and I can never begin to fully understand how it must make you feel, but I can see your side of the argument and why you feel how you do about this subject, which is obviously much more raw to you. There will be plenty of folk who will do exactly as you say they should and just won't go for any amount of money, and that's fine, but me as an individual also have no issue with any players who are in the twilight of their careers going over there to get the riches on offer, the fact that he's already a multi-millinaire doesn't come into it for me. Also, I wouldn't hold the USA up as any kind of shining light in the acceptance stakes either, there are plenty of areas over there, and plenty of people in certain areas of that crackpot country who still don't accept people from the LGBTQ community. One last thing on this subject, as its moving away from football, and into territory that I don't really wish to go too deep into, we are yet to hear from Jordan Henderson himself yet so before he gets shot to pieces for this decision, it might just be worth waiting to hear what he has to say, or how he speaks whilst over there, you never know, he might just surprise you.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 30, 2023 19:35:56 GMT
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Post by Northy on Jul 31, 2023 7:39:14 GMT
Its mind boggling, but doesn't he give quite a bit back to the poor in his own country? Would be good if it goes to some sustainable land and food projects out there.
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Post by biddulphchav on Jul 31, 2023 12:54:45 GMT
I've heard a few people from the LGBTQ society speaking and they see it the opposite way, and are saying that it can be a good thing that people like Henderson are going over there and hopefully helping to change their beliefs. Whether it will or not is a debate, not for this board, or for me personally. As far as the money is concerned, it makes no odds that he's already a multi-millionaire, no matter how much money you earn, the vast majority of people will always want to earn more, thats just how it is. As a footballer in the twilight of his career, I see no issue with going over there for a few years, taking whatever riches are being thrown at him and then setting his family up for generations to come. If that's his motive for going then fair play to him. I as a member of the LGBTQ society see it the other way. It's abandoning your morals and principles for money, when you already have your life set to be comfortable. It shows the support for people such as myself can be bought and sold and it's gross. My existence is illegal over there, think about that. The stronger message would be to publicly state, no, not going, not for any amount of money. I'll stay in the UK / Europe or the USA and cream in 100's of thousands a week anyway. Oh come on, do me a favour. Where do the clothes you wear come from? Do you know? Do you know what conditions the workers have to put up with in those places? Are you aware of the situation in the wider supply chain for any of the goods you buy? I doubt you are, if you are like most people, you buy stuff that’s the best value for you, a combination of quality and cost. Somehow I doubt the moral and ethical values you are talking about apply to you in that situation, so why are you on your high horse now? Henderson is a footballer, he’s gone over there to play football - they are paying him more. That’s the end of the story, and you can call out the morals of it, but if you do then you had better make sure you are 100% on top of your own moral compass and don’t benefit from the exploitation of others.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 31, 2023 22:06:37 GMT
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 31, 2023 22:50:14 GMT
At least Hendo won't have to worry about taking a knee or wearing those pesky rainbow armbands or laces any more. And you dare to suggest these actions are vapid virtue-signalling and you get derided as some kind of right-wing crank. Could there be a clearer exposé of the emptiness of it all than this tawdry Saudi business
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Aug 2, 2023 19:59:38 GMT
I haven't caught it all, but there's an interesting programme about Saudi football on 5Live at the moment. PIF are planning to separate into multiple entities so they can get around the multi club ownership rule.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 2, 2023 20:51:49 GMT
I haven't caught it all, but there's an interesting programme about Saudi football on 5Live at the moment. PIF are planning to separate into multiple entities so they can get around the multi club ownership rule. There is always a way when you have this much power and wealth.
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Post by andystokey on Aug 14, 2023 12:50:01 GMT
Neymar is off now. £77.6m but he is set to earn 6x his PSG wage or £129m a year which is £2.5m a week!!
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 14, 2023 13:29:48 GMT
I haven't caught it all, but there's an interesting programme about Saudi football on 5Live at the moment. PIF are planning to separate into multiple entities so they can get around the multi club ownership rule. There is always a way when you have this much power and wealth. And with this much wealth don't be shocked if they buy their way into the champions league
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 14, 2023 13:38:28 GMT
There is always a way when you have this much power and wealth. And with this much wealth don't be shocked if they buy their way into the champions league I think this is a stated objective. Either this, or a World Club Champions League will succeed the European Champions League in prominence. If the financial rewards of World Club Champions League are increased significantly then the clubs will of course follow the money. I think the Champions League will feel the need to be refreshed (or is that re-marketed) anyway at some point as the number of teams who can realistically win it shrinks
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 16, 2023 10:30:50 GMT
Neymar is off now. £77.6m but he is set to earn 6x his PSG wage or £129m a year which is £2.5m a week!! Just read this quote from Neymar "I achieved a lot in Europe and had some special moments, but I always wanted to be a global player and test myself with new challenges and opportunities in new places,” Neymar said (h/t Paris Fans). Global player, new challenges? Yeah right! Greedy little shit more like.
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Post by st3mark on Aug 16, 2023 11:33:05 GMT
No issue with players going there for the money.
But let's not pretend it's about football.
I watched my first Saudi match recently, wanted to see what the standard was like. It was as if you'd taken 3 professional footballers and chucked them on the pitch amongst some Sunday league sides.
I may give it a whirl now and again because of my interest in the sport, but I'll wait a while before I next bother.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 16, 2023 12:07:42 GMT
Saudi Arabia will play two international friendlies at Newcastle United's St James' Park.
Sacha Deshmukh, chief executive of Amnesty International, criticised the decision to hold the international matches at St James' Park, calling it another example of "how sportswashing works".
He called on Newcastle manager Eddie Howe, co-owner Amanda Staveley and others at the club to "break their collective silence" on human rights issues in Saudi Arabia. BBC Report
I wouldn't hold my breath!
The British government considered the possible failure of the Saudi takeover of Newcastle United to be an “immediate risk” to the United Kingdom’s relationship with the Gulf nation, an investigation by The Athletic can reveal.
Then-prime minister Boris Johnson’s chief strategic advisor even sought to find a “senior interlocutor to impress the interests” of the government onto the Premier League.
Government interference in domestic football!
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the PIF’s chairman, sent private phone messages to Johnson in which he warned there may be economic consequences for Britain if the Premier League resisted the takeover, and this spells out the masses of money potentially on the line for the UK economy. The Athletic
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Post by foster on Aug 16, 2023 12:51:32 GMT
No issue with players going there for the money. But let's not pretend it's about football. I watched my first Saudi match recently, wanted to see what the standard was like. It was as if you'd taken 3 professional footballers and chucked them on the pitch amongst some Sunday league sides. I may give it a whirl now and again because of my interest in the sport, but I'll wait a while before I next bother. It's a veterans league at best. I won't be watching it... ever.
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