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Post by chiprockets on Jan 17, 2023 21:53:30 GMT
It's all politicised by the Unions Can you expand on that Knype? It will start a thread in a minute about intellectual superiority complex. And everyone will be correct in being intellectually superior.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 23:05:31 GMT
What an incredibly well thought through plan!🤦♂️
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 18, 2023 6:28:52 GMT
Not good is it? "These cuts come on top of a long period of real-terms reductions in teacher salaries dating back to 2010. As shown in Figure 1, salaries for more experienced and senior teachers have fallen by 13% in real-terms since 2010. Teachers in the middle of the salary scale have experienced cuts of 9-10% since 2010. Starting salaries have fallen by 5% in real-terms. However, the real-terms cuts in teacher pay levels since 2010 compare unfavourably with changes in average earnings, which are likely to have risen by about 2% in real-terms between 2010–11 and 2022–23 (based on whole-economy average weekly earnings)." Yeah but, you can prove anything with facts. 🙂
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Post by knype on Jan 18, 2023 7:57:21 GMT
Can you expand on that Knype? It will start a thread in a minute about intellectual superiority complex. And everyone will be correct in being intellectually superior. You wouldn't...
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Post by knype on Jan 18, 2023 7:57:57 GMT
I didn't say that I didn't (there's 11), I'm just trying to understand what POINT you're attempting to make (if there actually is one). Give him time to google an answer Zzzzzz
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Jan 20, 2023 17:34:02 GMT
Average hours a teacher works is 62 per week, if you average that out to someone who would normally work 37 hours in their working week a teacher is actually working the holidays they are entitled to without pay. 4 years at university racking up a minimum of £38k of debt for the privilege of earning £28k a year. At the same time the current teachers have effectively taken a 13% pay cut in the last 10 years. If some of those criticizing the teachers think it's such a great career feel free to take up the opportunity to become one, there's a shortage so you'll never be out of work. Think of all those holidays, the gold plated pension - surely there must be some takers on here. Gouranga.
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Post by elystokie on Jan 20, 2023 18:07:48 GMT
Average hours a teacher works is 62 per week, if you average that out to someone who would normally work 37 hours in their working week a teacher is actually working the holidays they are entitled to without pay. 4 years at university racking up a minimum of £38k of debt for the privilege of earning £28k a year. At the same time the current teachers have effectively taken a 13% pay cut in the last 10 years. If some of those criticizing the teachers think it's such a great career feel free to take up the opportunity to become one, there's a shortage so you'll never be out of work. Think of all those holidays, the gold plated pension - surely there must be some takers on here. Gouranga. And if Gullis can get paid for it you'd think any fucker can.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Apr 3, 2024 19:44:54 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c97ww882dexoPossible industrial action at the start of the next school year, with unions' soft polling indicating 90% are in favour of striking again. I was working in a school whilst they were last striking, less than 12 months ago, and supported their decision but I'm not sure I would be in favour of them striking again so soon, following an acceptance of the pay rise offered within the past year. At some point, you have to accept that the economy is in a bad place and that pretty much everyone is worse off compared to X years ago if they've stayed within the same role. A starting salary of £30,000 isn't amazing for the amount of work they do, but it's not bad in comparison to other roles. Of course there is a huge issue with staff retainment, but whilst more money helps, it's not a leading factor in the reason why people don't stay in the profession.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2024 20:08:33 GMT
They’re lucky they got such a well paid job with more holidays than anyone else could ever dream of. And don’t give me that bollocks about working during holidays. I know a couple who have a bit to do and leave it till the day before to rush it through then moan about it
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 3, 2024 20:19:28 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c97ww882dexoPossible industrial action at the start of the next school year, with unions' soft polling indicating 90% are in favour of striking again. I was working in a school whilst they were last striking, less than 12 months ago, and supported their decision but I'm not sure I would be in favour of them striking again so soon, following an acceptance of the pay rise offered within the past year. At some point, you have to accept that the economy is in a bad place and that pretty much everyone is worse off compared to X years ago if they've stayed within the same role. A starting salary of £30,000 isn't amazing for the amount of work they do, but it's not bad in comparison to other roles. Of course there is a huge issue with staff retainment, but whilst more money helps, it's not a leading factor in the reason why people don't stay in the profession. What's the answer? Cut workload maybe? Or have larger classes, less school time, try to attract more immigrant teachers?
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Apr 3, 2024 20:23:23 GMT
They’re lucky they got such a well paid job with more holidays than anyone else could ever dream of. And don’t give me that bollocks about working during holidays. I know a couple who have a bit to do and leave it till the day before to rush it through then moan about it Pretty much every teacher does a fair chunk of work through their holidays. I think they're pretty much forced to be subject leads at least at Primary School level so have stuff to do for that, plus planning for ever changing curriculums*, training etc. SLT are obviously paid more, but if they're also in the classroom they have insane amounts of work to do. They definitely work hard, and have no chance of completing what they need to do within the hours they're paid for. That's the real reason why they can't retain staff - completely pointless, box-ticking nonsense that as absolutely no benefit to the children or teacher what so ever. All there to cover their arses as is the modern way.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2024 20:26:59 GMT
They’re lucky they got such a well paid job with more holidays than anyone else could ever dream of. And don’t give me that bollocks about working during holidays. I know a couple who have a bit to do and leave it till the day before to rush it through then moan about it Pretty much every teacher does a fair chunk of work through their holidays. I think they're pretty much forced to be subject leads at least at Primary School level so have stuff to do for that, plus planning for ever changing curriculums*, training etc. SLT are obviously paid more, but if they're also in the classroom they have insane amounts of work to do. They definitely work hard, and have no chance of completing what they need to do within the hours they're paid for. That's the real reason why they can't retain staff - completely pointless, box-ticking nonsense that as absolutely no benefit to the children or teacher what so ever. All there to cover their arses as is the modern way. Lots of people including myself tend to a bit when on holiday if they feel it improves how they’re currently working and benefits their work time in the long run. Difference is most people don’t get weeks on end to do it. As you said above, basically suck it up and realise things aren’t great for anybody at the moment. They’re living in a dream world
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Apr 3, 2024 20:28:10 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c97ww882dexoPossible industrial action at the start of the next school year, with unions' soft polling indicating 90% are in favour of striking again. I was working in a school whilst they were last striking, less than 12 months ago, and supported their decision but I'm not sure I would be in favour of them striking again so soon, following an acceptance of the pay rise offered within the past year. At some point, you have to accept that the economy is in a bad place and that pretty much everyone is worse off compared to X years ago if they've stayed within the same role. A starting salary of £30,000 isn't amazing for the amount of work they do, but it's not bad in comparison to other roles. Of course there is a huge issue with staff retainment, but whilst more money helps, it's not a leading factor in the reason why people don't stay in the profession. What's the answer? Cut workload maybe? Or have larger classes, less school time, try to attract more immigrant teachers? Cut workload. Pretty much as simple as that. The amount of truly pointless stuff that goes on is literally insane. To be honest, the curriculum needs overhauling but that's not down to the school itself.
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Post by noustie on Apr 3, 2024 20:28:24 GMT
They’re lucky they got such a well paid job with more holidays than anyone else could ever dream of. And don’t give me that bollocks about working during holidays. I know a couple who have a bit to do and leave it till the day before to rush it through then moan about it I ended up head of our parent council and we had a meeting at the local hotel because we hadn’t requested the meeting 2 weeks in advance so couldn’t use the school. Head teacher came and another parent on the council is a teacher. In all probably 8 of us. Head looks at the bar where there’s obviously a conference going on. He goes ‘teachers never get a jolly’ - ignored it but not everyone heard so he says again ‘teachers never get a jolly’ This time couldn’t resist ‘yeah you do’ Incredulous he says ‘what jollies do we get?’ ‘July mate’ The look I got makes organising school discos and shit like that worth it! 👍
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2024 20:32:32 GMT
What's the answer? Cut workload maybe? Or have larger classes, less school time, try to attract more immigrant teachers? Cut workload. Pretty much as simple as that. The amount of truly pointless stuff that goes on is literally insane. To be honest, the curriculum needs overhauling but that's not down to the school itself. Tbh my posts have been a little tongue in cheek and everyone thinks work life balance can be improved but is striking at the detriment of children’s education the answer? How much is the fine for taking a child out of school for a holiday? Maybe teachers on strike should suffer the same fate. My advice to a teacher would be get together and do something about your problems, striking solves nothing
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Apr 3, 2024 20:33:38 GMT
They’re lucky they got such a well paid job with more holidays than anyone else could ever dream of. And don’t give me that bollocks about working during holidays. I know a couple who have a bit to do and leave it till the day before to rush it through then moan about it I ended up head of our parent council and we had a meeting at the local hotel because we hadn’t requested the meeting 2 weeks in advance so couldn’t use the school. Head teacher came and another parent on the council is a teacher. In all probably 8 of us. Head looks at the bar where there’s obviously a conference going on. He goes ‘teachers never get a jolly’ - ignored it but not everyone heard so he says again ‘teachers never get a jolly’ This time couldn’t resist ‘yeah you do’ Incredulous he says ‘what jollies do we get?’ ‘July mate’ The look I got makes organising school discos and shit like that worth it! 👍 Brilliant Although August, when they're actually off, would have worked better
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2024 20:34:21 GMT
I ended up head of our parent council and we had a meeting at the local hotel because we hadn’t requested the meeting 2 weeks in advance so couldn’t use the school. Head teacher came and another parent on the council is a teacher. In all probably 8 of us. Head looks at the bar where there’s obviously a conference going on. He goes ‘teachers never get a jolly’ - ignored it but not everyone heard so he says again ‘teachers never get a jolly’ This time couldn’t resist ‘yeah you do’ Incredulous he says ‘what jollies do we get?’ ‘July mate’ The look I got makes organising school discos and shit like that worth it! 👍 Brilliant Although August, when they're actually off, would have worked better My lady’s daughter gets 8 weeks
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Post by noustie on Apr 3, 2024 20:37:50 GMT
I ended up head of our parent council and we had a meeting at the local hotel because we hadn’t requested the meeting 2 weeks in advance so couldn’t use the school. Head teacher came and another parent on the council is a teacher. In all probably 8 of us. Head looks at the bar where there’s obviously a conference going on. He goes ‘teachers never get a jolly’ - ignored it but not everyone heard so he says again ‘teachers never get a jolly’ This time couldn’t resist ‘yeah you do’ Incredulous he says ‘what jollies do we get?’ ‘July mate’ The look I got makes organising school discos and shit like that worth it! 👍 Brilliant Although August, when they're actually off, would have worked better In fairness mate we’re off here for July and back early-mid August 👍
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Apr 3, 2024 20:39:50 GMT
Brilliant Although August, when they're actually off, would have worked better My lady’s daughter gets 8 weeks Mental. It just doesn't fit in with modern societies way of life where usually both parents work. For the vast majority, they have no choice. God knows how those without a family support network cope.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 3, 2024 20:42:36 GMT
They’re lucky they got such a well paid job with more holidays than anyone else could ever dream of. And don’t give me that bollocks about working during holidays. I know a couple who have a bit to do and leave it till the day before to rush it through then moan about it It very much depends on if people are comfortable with the Demografic of where the Teachers are from. It's somewhat disingenuous to complain about too many immigrants when there aren’t enough Brits willing to fill the vital roles due to poor pay and conditions. By recruiting from overseas it fulfills the basic obligation to provide a General Education but does nothing to bridge the chronic shortage of Teachers in Maths and Science who are highly prized in Industry or in other Countries There is so much schizophrenia and contradictions attached to how UK organises its Society Steep rise in schools in England recruiting teachers from Jamaica
Exclusive: Schools following NHS and social care in recruiting from overseas as work visas for secondary school teachers double Schools are following the NHS and social care providers by increasing their recruitment of teachers from overseas to fill vacancies, leaving classrooms empty in countries such as Jamaica. Immigration figures show a jump in the number of skilled worker visas issued to teachers from abroad, while the government in England is using bonuses to boost the number of teacher trainees from overseas – at a time when Rishi Sunak said legal migration to the UK was “too high” and vowed to reduce it. While the numbers remain modest compared with the NHS, the trend is rising steeply upwards and will continue rising as the increase in trainee teachers recruited overseas enter the workforce. Last year nearly 1,100 work visas were issued to qualified secondary school teachers, double the 555 visas issued in 2022 and well above the 205 in 2021. So far this year, more than one in four applicants to teacher training courses in England have come from outside Europe. Jamaica alone supplied 486 qualified teachers last year, twice as many as in 2022, as schools in England launched recruiting drives in a country with a population of just 2.8 million and suffering its own chronic shortages of qualified teachers. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2024/apr/02/steep-rise-in-schools-in-england-recruiting-teachers-from-jamaica
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Post by noustie on Apr 3, 2024 20:52:51 GMT
Cut workload. Pretty much as simple as that. The amount of truly pointless stuff that goes on is literally insane. To be honest, the curriculum needs overhauling but that's not down to the school itself. Tbh my posts have been a little tongue in cheek and everyone thinks work life balance can be improved but is striking at the detriment of children’s education the answer? How much is the fine for taking a child out of school for a holiday? Maybe teachers on strike should suffer the same fate. My advice to a teacher would be get together and do something about your problems, striking solves nothing I think it’s playing a role in discipline in the classroom too and solely blaming parents is completely myopic. Kids in our day knew the teachers who gave a shit and those just punching their ticket with behaviours pivoting accordingly. Respect is earned not given yet kids are supposed to dish it out automatically whilst simultaneously getting absolutely shafted!
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Apr 3, 2024 20:52:53 GMT
1100 isn't a big number in the grand scheme of things.
I saw a headline earlier, possibly an older article linked to the BBC link I posted above, saying P.E teachers are being retrained as Maths teachers. I didn't actually read the context or see the publication date, but I did think it sounded a shit idea. As a secondary school pupil, I just couldn't imagine our PE teching staff trying to teach us maths at GCSE level an above.
As always, it's sticking plasters on issues created by years of mismanagement - crap, blue sky ideas that simply haven't worked and were never going to work. Having not read it, I might have it completely wrong, but in a sector struggling to retain staff, taking staff out of the job they trained for and wanted to pursue to train them in a subject they obviously didn't want to teach, isn't likely to help.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Apr 3, 2024 20:54:36 GMT
Tbh my posts have been a little tongue in cheek and everyone thinks work life balance can be improved but is striking at the detriment of children’s education the answer? How much is the fine for taking a child out of school for a holiday? Maybe teachers on strike should suffer the same fate. My advice to a teacher would be get together and do something about your problems, striking solves nothing I think it’s playing a role in discipline in the classroom too and solely blaming parents is completely myopic. Kids in our day knew the teachers who gave a shit and those just punching their ticket with behaviours pivoting accordingly. Respect is earned not given yet kids are supposed to dish it out automatically whilst simultaneously getting absolutely shafted! Behaviour in schools is often abysmal and parenting/home life is a huge reason. It's largely a reflection of society in general. Teachers and school staff are utterly powerless and students are becoming more and more aware of that, at an increasingly younger age. EDIT: I should say, in my experience and from listening to people with much more experience than me. Obviously you yourself are involved with school life yourself.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2024 20:59:18 GMT
I think it’s playing a role in discipline in the classroom too and solely blaming parents is completely myopic. Kids in our day knew the teachers who gave a shit and those just punching their ticket with behaviours pivoting accordingly. Respect is earned not given yet kids are supposed to dish it out automatically whilst simultaneously getting absolutely shafted! Behaviour in schools is often abysmal and parenting/home life is a huge reason. It's largely a reflection of society in general. Teachers and school staff are utterly powerless and students are becoming more and more aware of that, at an increasingly younger age. EDIT: I should say, in my experience and from listening to people with much more experience than me. Obviously you yourself are involved with school life yourself. Spot on with that definitely
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Post by noustie on Apr 3, 2024 21:12:49 GMT
I think it’s playing a role in discipline in the classroom too and solely blaming parents is completely myopic. Kids in our day knew the teachers who gave a shit and those just punching their ticket with behaviours pivoting accordingly. Respect is earned not given yet kids are supposed to dish it out automatically whilst simultaneously getting absolutely shafted! Behaviour in schools is often abysmal and parenting/home life is a huge reason. It's largely a reflection of society in general. Teachers and school staff are utterly powerless and students are becoming more and more aware of that, at an increasingly younger age. EDIT: I should say, in my experience and from listening to people with much more experience than me. Obviously you yourself are involved with school life yourself. Sorry mate nae buying it - shit parenting isn’t new and if it was purely down to parenting they’d be the same level of shitebags for each teacher but they’re not. Our form were complete fuckers for the French and history teacher but the English, maths and geography teacher had the same group engaged. Same in my wee one’s class - same teacher for 2 years who does it as a vocation had them eating out of her hand. Moved up to a teacher who likes the sound of her own voice and is moaning some of the lads have gone feral and some of the girls are pissing about. What I think has changed massively is there’s a disconnect between parents and teachers - respect both ways is out the window to a large extent. Ironically the problem child in my wee one’s class his mother is a teacher and it’s always someone else at fault whereas he’s just a wee bawbag
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 3, 2024 21:15:11 GMT
Tbh my posts have been a little tongue in cheek and everyone thinks work life balance can be improved but is striking at the detriment of children’s education the answer? How much is the fine for taking a child out of school for a holiday? Maybe teachers on strike should suffer the same fate. My advice to a teacher would be get together and do something about your problems, striking solves nothing Lots of the ones I know just went and found other jobs so they are doing something about it. They know some who are still working and give the same advice: get better jobs and get out.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 3, 2024 21:17:22 GMT
Cut workload. Pretty much as simple as that. The amount of truly pointless stuff that goes on is literally insane. That's the impression I got mate. It's what forced out the ones I know. Maybe parents should accept that they have to trust what the teachers tell them, and not ask for all these filled out checklists, personalised notes on every lesson etc.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 3, 2024 21:20:59 GMT
I think it’s playing a role in discipline in the classroom too and solely blaming parents is completely myopic. Kids in our day knew the teachers who gave a shit and those just punching their ticket with behaviours pivoting accordingly. Respect is earned not given yet kids are supposed to dish it out automatically whilst simultaneously getting absolutely shafted! Behaviour in schools is often abysmal and parenting/home life is a huge reason. It's largely a reflection of society in general. Teachers and school staff are utterly powerless and students are becoming more and more aware of that, at an increasingly younger age. EDIT: I should say, in my experience and from listening to people with much more experience than me. Obviously you yourself are involved with school life yourself. I work in schools and there’s a definate a swing in power with kids definately calling the shots and feeling they hold the power. It’s very much the minority however they can have a huge impact on others and in particular those on the periphery of trouble who could go either way. It certainly took a dip after covid and there was a definate change both in anxiety for some and anger in others this was in my opinion mainly down to the lack of interaction over a whole year. Parenting of course is a huge factor with sadly some parents trying to justify their children’s bad behaviour rather than challenging it.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2024 21:24:57 GMT
Behaviour in schools is often abysmal and parenting/home life is a huge reason. It's largely a reflection of society in general. Teachers and school staff are utterly powerless and students are becoming more and more aware of that, at an increasingly younger age. EDIT: I should say, in my experience and from listening to people with much more experience than me. Obviously you yourself are involved with school life yourself. I work in schools and there’s a definate a swing in power with kids definately calling the shots and feeling they call the shots. It’s very much the minority however they can have a huge impact on others and in particular those on the periphery of trouble who could go either way. It certainly took a dip after covid and there was a definate change both in anxiety for some and anger in others this was in my opinion mainly down to the lack of interaction over a whole year. Parenting of course is a huge factor with sadly some parents trying to justify their children’s bad behaviour rather than challenging it. Careful Cobs, experience counts for nothing unless you’ve got a Twitter post to back it up. I’m surprised you’ve got the nerve tbh
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Post by wannabee on Apr 3, 2024 21:35:26 GMT
Behaviour in schools is often abysmal and parenting/home life is a huge reason. It's largely a reflection of society in general. Teachers and school staff are utterly powerless and students are becoming more and more aware of that, at an increasingly younger age. EDIT: I should say, in my experience and from listening to people with much more experience than me. Obviously you yourself are involved with school life yourself. I work in schools and there’s a definate a swing in power with kids definately calling the shots and feeling they hold the power. It’s very much the minority however they can have a huge impact on others and in particular those on the periphery of trouble who could go either way. It certainly took a dip after covid and there was a definate change both in anxiety for some and anger in others this was in my opinion mainly down to the lack of interaction over a whole year. Parenting of course is a huge factor with sadly some parents trying to justify their children’s bad behaviour rather than challenging it. I don't have children or grandchildren of school age nor do I know any Teachers personally but this seems a rational explanation to me and an endorsement of why Teachers are leaving the profession and the gap is being filled by immigrating Teachers
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