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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 15:31:18 GMT
Not good is it? "These cuts come on top of a long period of real-terms reductions in teacher salaries dating back to 2010. As shown in Figure 1, salaries for more experienced and senior teachers have fallen by 13% in real-terms since 2010. Teachers in the middle of the salary scale have experienced cuts of 9-10% since 2010. Starting salaries have fallen by 5% in real-terms. However, the real-terms cuts in teacher pay levels since 2010 compare unfavourably with changes in average earnings, which are likely to have risen by about 2% in real-terms between 2010–11 and 2022–23 (based on whole-economy average weekly earnings)."
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Post by superjw on Jan 17, 2023 15:47:08 GMT
Well if this goes ahead then my kids teachers better not have the brass neck to threaten me with a fine for taking them out of school for a well earned holiday and visiting family. I sympathize with anyone who goes on strike in desperation to get their working standards improved. But I lost a lot of respect for Teachers at my kids school after their shambolic handling of my kids education and welfare during and post covid. Serious reform is needed in schools across the UK and if these strikes are a means to that end then so be it. wtf have teachers got to do with fining you...it's council local government who fine you..took my granddaughter out last October told her teacher I was taking her Lanzarote and her teacher said have a nice time wish I was going etc... They don't give out a fine no but they are the ones who ultimately make the referral to authorities to issue the fine, hence why not every school has a policy to fine. My school will refer to fine but others don't do it - it's a lottery.
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 15:48:23 GMT
Not good is it? "These cuts come on top of a long period of real-terms reductions in teacher salaries dating back to 2010. As shown in Figure 1, salaries for more experienced and senior teachers have fallen by 13% in real-terms since 2010. Teachers in the middle of the salary scale have experienced cuts of 9-10% since 2010. Starting salaries have fallen by 5% in real-terms. However, the real-terms cuts in teacher pay levels since 2010 compare unfavourably with changes in average earnings, which are likely to have risen by about 2% in real-terms between 2010–11 and 2022–23 (based on whole-economy average weekly earnings)." Which normal profession, job, vocation hasn't had real term cuts in pay?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2023 15:49:51 GMT
25% cut in income in the past decade in real terms, but far more work than ever before (mostly admin). It will a bloody nightmare (I have 3 young kids) but I also sympathise with the predicament of teachers. The real question is will the government learn from its mistakes and just negotiate and reach a deal and avoid the strikes? Or will they continue trying to turn the public against all those on strike in the hope it gives them a political advantage? It’s not 25% Thank you for posting the links. It is around 10-13% fall in wages depending on seniority etc. Still, that’s not great, is it?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2023 15:52:45 GMT
Not good is it? "These cuts come on top of a long period of real-terms reductions in teacher salaries dating back to 2010. As shown in Figure 1, salaries for more experienced and senior teachers have fallen by 13% in real-terms since 2010. Teachers in the middle of the salary scale have experienced cuts of 9-10% since 2010. Starting salaries have fallen by 5% in real-terms. However, the real-terms cuts in teacher pay levels since 2010 compare unfavourably with changes in average earnings, which are likely to have risen by about 2% in real-terms between 2010–11 and 2022–23 (based on whole-economy average weekly earnings)." Which normal profession, job, vocation hasn't had real term cuts in pay? The average is a 2% increase. For teachers it is a significant decrease whichever way you look at it. So you can see why teachers are not happy. Plus their job is much harder than in 2010, with far more admin. We have teacher shortages in many subjects, and so we are in dire need of attracting/retaining teachers.
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Post by milton58 on Jan 17, 2023 15:52:48 GMT
Not good is it? "These cuts come on top of a long period of real-terms reductions in teacher salaries dating back to 2010. As shown in Figure 1, salaries for more experienced and senior teachers have fallen by 13% in real-terms since 2010. Teachers in the middle of the salary scale have experienced cuts of 9-10% since 2010. Starting salaries have fallen by 5% in real-terms. However, the real-terms cuts in teacher pay levels since 2010 compare unfavourably with changes in average earnings, which are likely to have risen by about 2% in real-terms between 2010–11 and 2022–23 (based on whole-economy average weekly earnings)." Which normal profession, job, vocation hasn't had real term cuts in pay? members of parliament
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 15:58:51 GMT
Which normal profession, job, vocation hasn't had real term cuts in pay? members of parliament Yep, on both sides too
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 15:59:35 GMT
Not good is it? "These cuts come on top of a long period of real-terms reductions in teacher salaries dating back to 2010. As shown in Figure 1, salaries for more experienced and senior teachers have fallen by 13% in real-terms since 2010. Teachers in the middle of the salary scale have experienced cuts of 9-10% since 2010. Starting salaries have fallen by 5% in real-terms. However, the real-terms cuts in teacher pay levels since 2010 compare unfavourably with changes in average earnings, which are likely to have risen by about 2% in real-terms between 2010–11 and 2022–23 (based on whole-economy average weekly earnings)." Which normal profession, job, vocation hasn't had real term cuts in pay? Your answer is literally in the post you have quoted. Average earnings have risen by 2% whilst teacher pay has been cut considerably.
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 16:00:11 GMT
Which normal profession, job, vocation hasn't had real term cuts in pay? Your answer is literally in the post you have quoted. Average earnings have risen by 2% whilst teacher pay has been cut considerably. Average, so not every
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Post by marylandstoke on Jan 17, 2023 16:01:32 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 16:02:14 GMT
Your answer is literally in the post you have quoted. Average earnings have risen by 2% whilst teacher pay has been cut considerably. Average, so not every Obviously not every, it's an average.
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 16:04:27 GMT
Obviously not every, it's an average. Exactly. So why isn't every other profession, job who hasn't had a pay rise striking, something to do with nurses, teachers, post having strong union representation ?
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 17, 2023 16:17:34 GMT
Obviously not every, it's an average. Exactly. So why isn't every other profession, job who hasn't had a pay rise striking, something to do with nurses, teachers, post having strong union representation ? Barristers we’re on strike recently too, Junior doctors are expected to take action soon. Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners…
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 16:18:01 GMT
Exactly. So why isn't every other profession, job who hasn't had a pay rise striking, something to do with nurses, teachers, post having strong union representation ? Barristers we’re on strike recently too, Junior doctors are expected to take action soon. Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners… All led by unions ?
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 17, 2023 16:18:15 GMT
Exactly. So why isn't every other profession, job who hasn't had a pay rise striking, something to do with nurses, teachers, post having strong union representation ? Barristers were on strike recently too, Junior doctors are expected to take action soon. Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners…
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 17, 2023 16:20:06 GMT
Barristers we’re on strike recently too, Junior doctors are expected to take action soon. Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners… All led by unions ? Apologies for multiple posts - phone problems. I take it you’re not a fan of unions.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 16:20:23 GMT
Barristers we’re on strike recently too, Junior doctors are expected to take action soon. Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners… All led by unions ? Ah, I think I see what you're on about now. You're not in favour of unions?
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 16:43:39 GMT
Ah, I think I see what you're on about now. You're not in favour of unions? It's all politicised by the Unions
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 16:47:30 GMT
Ah, I think I see what you're on about now. You're not in favour of unions? It's all politicised by the Unions Can you expand on that Knype?
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 18:06:15 GMT
It's all politicised by the Unions Can you expand on that Knype? I dont have to...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 18:54:37 GMT
Can you expand on that Knype? I dont have to... What an odd answer ... I'm just trying to understand what you mean?
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Post by swampmongrel on Jan 17, 2023 19:36:35 GMT
Not good is it? "These cuts come on top of a long period of real-terms reductions in teacher salaries dating back to 2010. As shown in Figure 1, salaries for more experienced and senior teachers have fallen by 13% in real-terms since 2010. Teachers in the middle of the salary scale have experienced cuts of 9-10% since 2010. Starting salaries have fallen by 5% in real-terms. However, the real-terms cuts in teacher pay levels since 2010 compare unfavourably with changes in average earnings, which are likely to have risen by about 2% in real-terms between 2010–11 and 2022–23 (based on whole-economy average weekly earnings)." No it isn’t good. The number surprised me a bit. There’s a table in the link that showed the median teachers salary (you have to work it out it’s not explicit) is about 44k (down from 50k inflation adjusted in 2010). The size of the drop surprised me. I still don’t it’s necessarily a bad package compared with other employment options. The pension and ability to work anywhere in the country make it attractive but recognise the stresses of the job, funding etc. and real terms pay cuts must be a bit shit. I’m certainly not queuing up to do it. I had a Google for teachers salaries across Europe. UK doesn’t stand out as a particular outlier but it can be a bit apples to oranges given cost of living, employment conditions and so on. I can see the government point of view, partly, they’re trying to avoid a wage price spiral and they can ultimately only control public sector salaries. My preference would be to let the BoE worry about inflation recognising that monetary response also has negative consequences, I do think that would be fairer than pay restraint for ‘unlucky’ public sector workers. If I recall correctly, the teaching unions were arguing for longer COVID shutdowns than necessary so I’m not overflowing with sympathy. On the other hand, they’re now paying a larger price than some other sectors. Ultimately, the government (either this one or the next) will eventually end up paying whatever they need to attract/retain teaching staff. How that’s all eventually funded will be a different scrap.
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2023 19:47:32 GMT
What an odd answer ... I'm just trying to understand what you mean? You know full well the link between union bosses and The Labour party
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Post by marylandstoke on Jan 17, 2023 20:00:50 GMT
Exactly. So why isn't every other profession, job who hasn't had a pay rise striking, something to do with nurses, teachers, post having strong union representation ? Barristers we’re on strike recently too, Junior doctors are expected to take action soon. Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners… Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners… Think you just described Wrexham’s starting line up.
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Post by milton58 on Jan 17, 2023 20:02:08 GMT
What an odd answer ... I'm just trying to understand what you mean? You know full well the link between union bosses and The Labour party a bit like conservatives and bankers then
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 17, 2023 20:16:18 GMT
What an odd answer ... I'm just trying to understand what you mean? You know full well the link between union bosses and The Labour party What is the link between the RCN and the Labour Party? RMT? Any of the teaching unions?
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Post by marylandstoke on Jan 17, 2023 20:20:12 GMT
What an odd answer ... I'm just trying to understand what you mean? As the dyslexic Musicians Union member said. Keep Music Vile.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 20:33:44 GMT
What an odd answer ... I'm just trying to understand what you mean? You know full well the link between union bosses and The Labour party I didn't say that I didn't (there's 11), I'm just trying to understand what POINT you're attempting to make (if there actually is one).
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 17, 2023 21:11:21 GMT
You know full well the link between union bosses and The Labour party I didn't say that I didn't (there's 11), I'm just trying to understand what POINT you're attempting to make (if there actually is one). Give him time to google an answer
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jan 17, 2023 21:18:30 GMT
Barristers we’re on strike recently too, Junior doctors are expected to take action soon. Civil servants, postal workers, trains, ambulance service, highways officers, driving examiners… All led by unions ? Er... yes. Only a union can legally organise a strike. Wildcat strikes can be considered a breach of contract.
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