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Post by skip on Jan 18, 2023 12:09:32 GMT
Rumours are that Delap Snr and other back room staff had a major fallout with the manager during their trip to Dubai. AN didn’t want anyone leaving the hotel at night to go drinking. Apparently the kit man told him no one was telling him what he could/couldn’t do in his own time and went out drinking. Delap Snr followed him also. On their return to training, at Clayton Woods, some of the players and Delap Snr. thought that AN was conducting the sessions like a Regimental Sargent Major which caused unrest in the dressing room. Delap and AN didn’t see eye to eye on training methods. AN obviously didn’t believe Delap could be trusted to carry out his wishes and that they could no longer work together. Liam Delap requested that Man City recall him from loan following the fallout. There was very little detail come out of the Dubai trip suggesting things were locked down with regards to daily activities & goings on.. Usually there's pics of training and coverage of matches being played, but there was definitely a news blackout regarding the trip away. Popping out for a beer in Dubai probably isn't no easy task either, nevermind having to escape the team hotel first! Should have been planned and communicated as a 'dry' warm weather training trip and as such, if Delap Sr. was so desperate for a beer it begs more questions than it answers.
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Post by crowey on Jan 18, 2023 12:12:27 GMT
…. Interesting
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 18, 2023 13:13:24 GMT
We have a new kit man though haven't we? Sorry PP, I’m not following you? My point is that the kit man and Delap should have been disciplined immediately after the alleged event, for me the only thing Neil did wrong was to wait to relieve them of their duties. If the allegations are correct they should have been immediately sacked I meant is this the guy that could have replaced whoever the kit man was who was involved in the alleged Dubai incident?
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Post by Gods on Jan 18, 2023 13:26:19 GMT
Blimey, imagine going to Dubai and not getting let out in your spare time. Surely can't be true? No one would put up with that for any longer than they absolutely have to. Why not, if you go on a work trip you need to abide by the terms set out by your employer. I don’t see any particular issue in this instance. If they wanted a drink that badly surely they could have had one in the hotel. If you’re not prepared to abide by your employer’s terms and conditions then go get another job. I've spent a lifetime going on work trips without even once having been told I can't leave the hotel in the evening. I think we need to urgently build some team spirit, treating everyone like they are 6 years old won't help with that.
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Post by callas12 on Jan 18, 2023 13:29:32 GMT
Sorry PP, I’m not following you? My point is that the kit man and Delap should have been disciplined immediately after the alleged event, for me the only thing Neil did wrong was to wait to relieve them of their duties. If the allegations are correct they should have been immediately sacked I meant is this the guy that could have replaced whoever the kit man was who was involved in the alleged Dubai incident? I reckon it is. The club advertised the post of assistant kit/laundry person with prior experience preferable around the time of Delap leaving. & the Dubai trip was Nov/Dec time.
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Post by beats88 on Jan 18, 2023 13:34:20 GMT
I meant is this the guy that could have replaced whoever the kit man was who was involved in the alleged Dubai incident? I reckon it is. The club advertised the post of assistant kit/laundry person with prior experience preferable around the time of Delap leaving. & the Dubai trip was Nov/Dec time. Exactly, whether you are away with work or not you should be allowed your own time out of working hours. If this is true what was the point in going to Dubai? might as well stayed at Clayton Wood and wrapped up. I assumed this would have been used as a team bonding exercise.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 18, 2023 13:38:23 GMT
Why not, if you go on a work trip you need to abide by the terms set out by your employer. I don’t see any particular issue in this instance. If they wanted a drink that badly surely they could have had one in the hotel. If you’re not prepared to abide by your employer’s terms and conditions then go get another job. I've spent a lifetime going on work trips without even once having been told I can't leave the hotel in the evening. I think we need to urgently build some team spirit, treating everyone like they are 6 years old won't help with that. Why, was what we were doing before helping?
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Post by datguy on Jan 18, 2023 13:48:01 GMT
I’d think it’s fairly common practice to tell players they can’t go drinking at night half way through a season.
Not being let out to do whatever is a different thing.
But I’ll tell you right now, folk saying AN is wrong to tell them they can’t go out drinking etc are also the first to shame the players for not caring when they rock up and lose to Preston at home etc …
And why on earth is the kit man getting involved? And unexpected from Delap Snr.
Shitshow if true? Partially. Right to sack and move on (if true)? Yes
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 18, 2023 14:49:42 GMT
I’d think it’s fairly common practice to tell players they can’t go drinking at night half way through a season. Not being let out to do whatever is a different thing. But I’ll tell you right now, folk saying AN is wrong to tell them they can’t go out drinking etc are also the first to shame the players for not caring when they rock up and lose to Preston at home etc … And why on earth is the kit man getting involved? And unexpected from Delap Snr. Shitshow if true? Partially. Right to sack and move on (if true)? Yes 1. Firstly unsubstantiated rumour 2. After working hours time belongs to the individual 3. Drink? What happens if it was a sociable game of pool/darts and the drink was non-alcoholic 4. Individual actions weren’t/aren’t in contravention of local laws/customs etc. Don’t compromise the employers brand Just trying be pragmatic with alternative thoughts
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 18, 2023 15:44:59 GMT
Why not, if you go on a work trip you need to abide by the terms set out by your employer. I don’t see any particular issue in this instance. If they wanted a drink that badly surely they could have had one in the hotel. If you’re not prepared to abide by your employer’s terms and conditions then go get another job. I've spent a lifetime going on work trips without even once having been told I can't leave the hotel in the evening. I think we need to urgently build some team spirit, treating everyone like they are 6 years old won't help with that. I’ve also spent over 30 years traveling with work & customer events and occasionally I’ve had to abide by some restrictions that I didn’t necessarily agree with. Like I said if you don’t want to abide by your employers conditions get another job and don’t be surprised if there’s repercussions if you wilfully disobey them
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 18, 2023 15:48:23 GMT
I’d think it’s fairly common practice to tell players they can’t go drinking at night half way through a season. Not being let out to do whatever is a different thing. But I’ll tell you right now, folk saying AN is wrong to tell them they can’t go out drinking etc are also the first to shame the players for not caring when they rock up and lose to Preston at home etc … And why on earth is the kit man getting involved? And unexpected from Delap Snr. Shitshow if true? Partially. Right to sack and move on (if true)? Yes 1. Firstly unsubstantiated rumour 2. After working hours time belongs to the individual 3. Drink? What happens if it was a sociable game of pool/darts and the drink was non-alcoholic 4. Individual actions weren’t/aren’t in contravention of local laws/customs etc. Don’t compromise the employers brand Just trying be pragmatic with alternative thoughts Number 2 is not entirely correct, as both the employee and employer have certain obligations and responsibilities if attending work functions and if you attend you can be bound to adhere to those conditions
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Post by hoppo96 on Jan 18, 2023 16:35:54 GMT
Not for me to defend some of our players but Alex Neil is not turning this round if he treats them like kids and/or acts like it's the Army. A big problem we have is the lack of confidence, which feeds into how we play. "am i getting booed if I make the wrong pass?".
I don't think it no longer works for managers to scream at their players and make them 'work hard'.
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Post by independent on Jan 18, 2023 16:46:41 GMT
You appear to believe that the terms and conditions were spelled out before anyone left this country. The impression i received was that this condition was a late addition. But none of us actually know the facts. Apart from the fact that both Delap senior and the kitman are no longer with the club.Coincidence?
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Post by professorplump on Jan 18, 2023 17:06:55 GMT
Rumours are that Delap Snr and other back room staff had a major fallout with the manager during their trip to Dubai. AN didn’t want anyone leaving the hotel at night to go drinking. Apparently the kit man told him no one was telling him what he could/couldn’t do in his own time and went out drinking. Delap Snr followed him also. On their return to training, at Clayton Woods, some of the players and Delap Snr. thought that AN was conducting the sessions like a Regimental Sargent Major which caused unrest in the dressing room. Delap and AN didn’t see eye to eye on training methods. AN obviously didn’t believe Delap could be trusted to carry out his wishes and that they could no longer work together. Liam Delap requested that Man City recall him from loan following the fallout. I know some of this will be used as another stick to beat the manager with, but when the Dubai trip was announced, there was some grumbling that it was just a holiday in the sun. If pictures had of got out showing the players in the bars of Dubai, it would only have added fuel to the fire. If this story is true, then I am really surprised at Rory Delap's lack of professionalism. It also highlights an unhealthy culture at the club, which may have contributed to our struggles over the last few years. As to the dispute over training methods, the methods used before Neil arrived don't seem to have worked too well, so perhaps they should give their manager the chance to change things.
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Post by ursemboys on Jan 18, 2023 17:08:30 GMT
if these rumours are true then I back AN, they are here to train not go on the piss
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Post by datguy on Jan 18, 2023 17:45:56 GMT
I’d think it’s fairly common practice to tell players they can’t go drinking at night half way through a season. Not being let out to do whatever is a different thing. But I’ll tell you right now, folk saying AN is wrong to tell them they can’t go out drinking etc are also the first to shame the players for not caring when they rock up and lose to Preston at home etc … And why on earth is the kit man getting involved? And unexpected from Delap Snr. Shitshow if true? Partially. Right to sack and move on (if true)? Yes 1. Firstly unsubstantiated rumour 2. After working hours time belongs to the individual 3. Drink? What happens if it was a sociable game of pool/darts and the drink was non-alcoholic 4. Individual actions weren’t/aren’t in contravention of local laws/customs etc. Don’t compromise the employers brand Just trying be pragmatic with alternative thoughts Is there any such thing as out of hours when you’re a footballer? From August till May you are a professional athlete getting paid far too much for their own good. I’d imagine it’s in their contract/club policy that as a professional athlete you will act… professionally. The fuckers were lucky enough to go to Dubai anyway let alone out on the piss all night. They don’t clock in and out, do they? It’s simple. If your football manager tells you you can’t go out drinking, you don’t go out drinking. There’s many stories down the years of players sneaking out on the piss when they’ve been told not to. Normally followed up with punishment along the lines of banishment from the starting 11 etc. Wasn’t the classic story of Jon Walters covering the fine of a broken window also that he paid the hotel receptionist/manager not to tell Sparky because they’d been told they can’t go out? It’s common football practice. The kit man getting involved is unbelievably bizarre. Get rid of him straight away. Sounds like AN did.
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Post by callas12 on Jan 18, 2023 17:58:05 GMT
1. Firstly unsubstantiated rumour 2. After working hours time belongs to the individual 3. Drink? What happens if it was a sociable game of pool/darts and the drink was non-alcoholic 4. Individual actions weren’t/aren’t in contravention of local laws/customs etc. Don’t compromise the employers brand Just trying be pragmatic with alternative thoughts Is there any such thing as out of hours when you’re a footballer? From August till May you are a professional athlete getting paid far too much for their own good. I’d imagine it’s in their contract/club policy that as a professional athlete you will act… professionally. The fuckers were lucky enough to go to Dubai anyway let alone out on the piss all night. They don’t clock in and out, do they? It’s simple. If your football manager tells you you can’t go out drinking, you don’t go out drinking. There’s many stories down the years of players sneaking out on the piss when they’ve been told not to. Normally followed up with punishment along the lines of banishment from the starting 11 etc. Wasn’t the classic story of Jon Walters covering the fine of a broken window also that he paid the hotel receptionist/manager not to tell Sparky because they’d been told they can’t go out? It’s common football practice. The kit man getting involved is unbelievably bizarre. Get rid of him straight away. Sounds like AN did. Maybe the club Dr was trying to go out with them aswell?! Perhaps he'd prescribed them some alcoholic beverages! I get that whilst away the players and staff should be afforded some down time which I'm sure they got, but as an organisation if any kind nevermind just being SCFC, if the boss says stay on campus & don't go out drinking to all associated parties then them are the rules & everyone should abide by them. If he AN was for example to let the backroom staff go out you'd get players wanting to do likewise and we all know where that can potentially lead things. Wasn't it our very own Bursik & DWP that went out against club rules during pre season and that apparently annoyed MON? Rules are the rules and if this incident has occured & turned into a saga then its likely rocked the boat for all concerned hence the exodus of staff last week. Perhaps that was just the catalyst to other things that have been occuring we're not privy to. Maybe this event did occur and its been blown out of proportions? Who knows. If rules have been set & conduct breached then AN is right in taking a strong view in my opinion. Good discipline is the least you should expect from your staff.
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Post by pavel on Jan 18, 2023 18:07:36 GMT
Why not, if you go on a work trip you need to abide by the terms set out by your employer. I don’t see any particular issue in this instance. If they wanted a drink that badly surely they could have had one in the hotel. If you’re not prepared to abide by your employer’s terms and conditions then go get another job. I've spent a lifetime going on work trips without even once having been told I can't leave the hotel in the evening. I think we need to urgently build some team spirit, treating everyone like they are 6 years old won't help with that. Absolutely, me too. Though it was considered sacrilege to leave the bar before midnight by some, but no curfew and no particular bar was specified!
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 18, 2023 18:38:21 GMT
If that correct the kit man and Delap senior should have been fired the day the plane landed. Delap, possibly for undermining the manager but not the kit man, surely. OK I can understand why professional sports persons maybe wouldn't be allowed to drink and that may encompass a coach but you're right why the fuck can't the kit man go for a drink? If everyone has to be treated the same was he being paid several thousand £ a week? As for not being allowed out whether they are drinking or not I can't see how that can possibly be right. Your employer can't dictate your life 24hrs a day.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 18, 2023 18:50:07 GMT
I heard Rory got so drunk, he projectile vomited all the way to the 6-yard box. Turns out his throw ups are as good as his throw ins.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 18, 2023 19:11:15 GMT
I’d think it’s fairly common practice to tell players they can’t go drinking at night half way through a season. Not being let out to do whatever is a different thing. But I’ll tell you right now, folk saying AN is wrong to tell them they can’t go out drinking etc are also the first to shame the players for not caring when they rock up and lose to Preston at home etc … And why on earth is the kit man getting involved? And unexpected from Delap Snr. Shitshow if true? Partially. Right to sack and move on (if true)? Yes Is it? I’d expect most of them go out on a Saturday if that’s their thing. They are humans.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 18, 2023 19:19:05 GMT
if these rumours are true then I back AN, they are here to train not go on the piss Rubbish, they should be able to do as they please. Now if they rock up at training the day after 3 sheets to the wind then a disciplinary is in order. As with any other place of work. I work all over the world and had some great experiences outside of a working day. If I was told not to go out and enjoy myself I’d tell em to get fucked!
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Post by peterthornesboots on Jan 18, 2023 19:23:29 GMT
My biggest take from this rumour is that whatever AN did on the training ground in Dubai (regardless of his approach) it evidently has not improved us!
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Post by ursemboys on Jan 18, 2023 19:25:51 GMT
if these rumours are true then I back AN, they are here to train not go on the piss Rubbish, they should be able to do as they please. Now if they rock up at training the day after 3 sheets to the wind then a disciplinary is in order. As with any other place of work. I work all over the world and had some great experiences outside of a working day. If I was told not to go out and enjoy myself I’d tell em to get fucked! Your not a highly paid sportsman though are you and paid to coach footballers, to compare what you did is not the same at all. I also think there is more to just going on the piss then we are hearing about. And lets face it they play like they have just ben on the piss so I am sure if you performed the same where ever you where then something would be said to you
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 18, 2023 19:28:45 GMT
If you want to go on a locked down training camp you don’t go to Dubai.
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Post by fca47 on Jan 18, 2023 19:29:08 GMT
Funny how some people equate going out for a drink, with getting pissed.It's the 2020's not 1970.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Jan 18, 2023 19:30:47 GMT
Funny how some people equate going out for a drink, with getting pissed.It's the 2020's not 1970. A bit of team bonding might not have been a bad idea really!
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 18, 2023 19:32:30 GMT
If you want to go on a locked down training camp you don’t go to Dubai. When has “warm weather training” ever achieved anything anyway. The only thing I hear is how a teams performance levels have dipped following a trip to Dubai or wherever, it doesn’t make any sense to me why it’s a thing
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 18, 2023 19:37:50 GMT
Why not, if you go on a work trip you need to abide by the terms set out by your employer. I don’t see any particular issue in this instance. If they wanted a drink that badly surely they could have had one in the hotel. If you’re not prepared to abide by your employer’s terms and conditions then go get another job. I've spent a lifetime going on work trips without even once having been told I can't leave the hotel in the evening. I think we need to urgently build some team spirit, treating everyone like they are 6 years old won't help with that. Maybe if they were performing on their job role they wouldn't need to, Dubai wasn't meant to be a knees up.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 18, 2023 19:42:28 GMT
Rubbish, they should be able to do as they please. Now if they rock up at training the day after 3 sheets to the wind then a disciplinary is in order. As with any other place of work. I work all over the world and had some great experiences outside of a working day. If I was told not to go out and enjoy myself I’d tell em to get fucked! Your not a highly paid sportsman though are you and paid to coach footballers, to compare what you did is not the same at all. I also think there is more to just going on the piss then we are hearing about. And lets face it they play like they have just ben on the piss so I am sure if you performed the same where ever you where then something would be said to you I can’t agree, they’re paid to do a job and their own time is to do as they please like any other profession. It shouldn’t be a concentration camp. It’s basic human rights. And let’s face it, as wank as they’ve been at their job they are humans like anyone else
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