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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 11:04:15 GMT
This is the best squad we’ve had in years,I can’t think why you say it’s accepted as nowhere near the standard of others we’ve had. Southgate isn’t a top manager,he’s as good as we’ve had in a long while but,let’s face it,the bar has been set pretty low.If he was a top manager we’d have won a trophy by now,we’ve had the chance twice but he showed his failings with bizarre decisions and tactical naivety.Why he hung those lads out to dry with the penalties still totally flummoxes me….criminal. A lot of the squad is very exciting however central defence is still the worst pool we have ever had going into any World Cup imho 2014's quartet of Cahill, Jagielka, Smalling and Jones arguably worse but it's splitting hairs, admittedly.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 22, 2022 11:34:04 GMT
The SF of the World Cup another mate We could ( maybe should ) be sat here discussing England as world and European champions but for his negativity Funny old game France would've beat us in the final. They were best in the world. I fancied us against France. Not sure why, just thought we’d be quite similar but think we’d have enough on the break to beat them. They’d be the one changing their game more than we would have. Croatia played their own game and didn’t need to change to beat us, whereas we did have to throughout the game and we couldn’t do it. Shot ourselves in the foot.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Sept 22, 2022 11:40:25 GMT
Still think he's too scared to go with 4 at the back. Walker, Stones and Maguire as a back three flanked by Chilwell (as with Maguire,worrying lack of game time) and James is my prediction, but the wing backs really need to get forward (as ever!). Then Rice, Bellingham, Foden with Kane and Sterling in front. Chase the game by going four at the back and bringing on Grealish.
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Post by lordb on Sept 22, 2022 11:42:30 GMT
A lot of the squad is very exciting however central defence is still the worst pool we have ever had going into any World Cup imho 2014's quartet of Cahill, Jagielka, Smalling and Jones arguably worse but it's splitting hairs, admittedly. ouch why is our game not producing really good centre backs any more?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 12:02:53 GMT
2014's quartet of Cahill, Jagielka, Smalling and Jones arguably worse but it's splitting hairs, admittedly. ouch why is our game not producing really good centre backs any more? Frightening when you look at the 2000s and we had Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry all at the top of their game and the likes of Woodgate and King on the fringes.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 22, 2022 12:05:21 GMT
Still think he's too scared to go with 4 at the back. Walker, Stones and Maguire as a back three flanked by Chilwell (as with Maguire,worrying lack of game time) and James is my prediction, but the wing backs really need to get forward (as ever!). Then Rice, Bellingham, Foden with Kane and Sterling in front. Chase the game by going four at the back and bringing on Grealish. I think the addition of Bellingham instead of Phillips will make us more dynamic, he's box to box rather than just holding. He's awesome and I predict he'll be a star of the world cup. We can have a good world cup, but other teams are allowed to be good as well. Chuck into that a penalty shoot out lottery and you can see it's not as easy as the manager not 'shitting himself' and being more adventurous.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 12:07:55 GMT
Penalties aren't a lottery.
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Post by werrington on Sept 22, 2022 12:24:22 GMT
ouch why is our game not producing really good centre backs any more? Frightening when you look at the 2000s and we had Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry all at the top of their game and the likes of Woodgate and King on the fringes. Have a look at that 2004,2006 England team/squad and ask yourself how the fuck did it not achieve anything? Although in 2004 we were shafted by the referee in the 95th minute in the QF v Portugal ( host nation ) …..and then again v the same country in Germany when Eriksen shit himself with his negative subs in extra time
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Post by werrington on Sept 22, 2022 12:29:12 GMT
Italy v England u21s ( Bursik ) later today
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 12:32:55 GMT
Frightening when you look at the 2000s and we had Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry all at the top of their game and the likes of Woodgate and King on the fringes. Have a look at that 2004,2006 England team/squad and ask yourself how the fuck did it not achieve anything? Although in 2004 we were shafted by the referee in the 95th minute in the QF v Portugal ( host nation ) …..and then again v the same country in Germany when Eriksen shit himself with his negative subs in extra time 2004 is the big one isn't it, really felt like that was there for the taking. Thought it probably was a foul by Campbell and that we scored too early then set back, which was typical of Sven by that point. Rooney's injury was a blow as well. If Beckham scores his pen against France though (or Gerrard doesn't hit that senseless backpass) I think we possibly make the final at least.
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Post by werrington on Sept 22, 2022 13:08:56 GMT
Have a look at that 2004,2006 England team/squad and ask yourself how the fuck did it not achieve anything? Although in 2004 we were shafted by the referee in the 95th minute in the QF v Portugal ( host nation ) …..and then again v the same country in Germany when Eriksen shit himself with his negative subs in extra time 2004 is the big one isn't it, really felt like that was there for the taking. Thought it probably was a foul by Campbell and that we scored too early then set back, which was typical of Sven by that point. Rooney's injury was a blow as well. If Beckham scores his pen against France though (or Gerrard doesn't hit that senseless backpass) I think we possibly make the final at least. Campbell was in 98 mate ( another shafting ) ….it was John Terry in Portugal
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 13:11:07 GMT
2004 is the big one isn't it, really felt like that was there for the taking. Thought it probably was a foul by Campbell and that we scored too early then set back, which was typical of Sven by that point. Rooney's injury was a blow as well. If Beckham scores his pen against France though (or Gerrard doesn't hit that senseless backpass) I think we possibly make the final at least. Campbell was in 98 mate ( another shafting ) ….it was John Terry in Portugal Ah of course - was it Campbell who scored in 04 from Terry's foul? I thought both were fouls anyway!
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 22, 2022 15:17:55 GMT
Frightening when you look at the 2000s and we had Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry all at the top of their game and the likes of Woodgate and King on the fringes. Have a look at that 2004,2006 England team/squad and ask yourself how the fuck did it not achieve anything? Although in 2004 we were shafted by the referee in the 95th minute in the QF v Portugal ( host nation ) …..and then again v the same country in Germany when Eriksen shit himself with his negative subs in extra time The 'golden generation' was peak English insularity . Yes, England had some very good players. But the idea ours were better than everybody else's is just silly.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 15:50:18 GMT
Have a look at that 2004,2006 England team/squad and ask yourself how the fuck did it not achieve anything? Although in 2004 we were shafted by the referee in the 95th minute in the QF v Portugal ( host nation ) …..and then again v the same country in Germany when Eriksen shit himself with his negative subs in extra time The 'golden generation' was peak English insularity . Yes, England had some very good players. But the idea ours were better than everybody else's is just silly. There seemed to be an obsession about just cramming in all our good players at all costs rather than having the balls to drop one or two of them in the name of finding the right balance as well.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 22, 2022 16:30:09 GMT
The 'golden generation' was peak English insularity . Yes, England had some very good players. But the idea ours were better than everybody else's is just silly. There seemed to be an obsession about just cramming in all our good players at all costs rather than having the balls to drop one or two of them in the name of finding the right balance as well. Paul scholes on the wing. Perhaps one of the top 3 if not the best midfielder in the world at the time, the only midfielder England have produced who could dictate tempo in midfield, played on the wing to accommodate the celebrity of lamps and Stevie g, two inferior players
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 17:01:53 GMT
There seemed to be an obsession about just cramming in all our good players at all costs rather than having the balls to drop one or two of them in the name of finding the right balance as well. Paul scholes on the wing. Perhaps one of the top 3 if not the best midfielder in the world at the time, the only midfielder England have produced who could dictate tempo in midfield, played on the wing to accommodate the celebrity of lamps and Stevie g, two inferior players Gerrard certainly wasn’t inferior to Scholes
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Post by hardcastle on Sept 22, 2022 18:11:56 GMT
There seemed to be an obsession about just cramming in all our good players at all costs rather than having the balls to drop one or two of them in the name of finding the right balance as well. Paul scholes on the wing. Perhaps one of the top 3 if not the best midfielder in the world at the time, the only midfielder England have produced who could dictate tempo in midfield, played on the wing to accommodate the celebrity of lamps and Stevie g, two inferior players Given Beckham's athleticism we could have played him and Cole as wingbacks, so allowing Scholes, Lamps and Gerrard to all play centrally. Wouldn't have restricted Beckham's dead ball role at all:.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 22, 2022 18:14:37 GMT
Is it done yet. Can we go back to league football now?
Nations league. So dull and plastic
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 18:18:12 GMT
Paul scholes on the wing. Perhaps one of the top 3 if not the best midfielder in the world at the time, the only midfielder England have produced who could dictate tempo in midfield, played on the wing to accommodate the celebrity of lamps and Stevie g, two inferior players Given Beckham's athleticism we could have played him and Cole as wingbacks, so allowing Scholes, Lamps and Gerrard to all play centrally. Wouldn't have restricted Beckham's dead ball role at all:. Especially as Danny Mills was the one used in that position! Hoddle would have gotten a tune out of that squad
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Post by marylandstoke on Sept 22, 2022 18:46:47 GMT
Any truth in the rumour that the coaching staff have been spending most of training trying to teach the squad the lyrics to new national anthem?
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Sept 22, 2022 18:54:34 GMT
Any truth in the rumour that the coaching staff have been spending most of training trying to teach the squad the lyrics to new national anthem? No
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 19:49:09 GMT
Paul scholes on the wing. Perhaps one of the top 3 if not the best midfielder in the world at the time, the only midfielder England have produced who could dictate tempo in midfield, played on the wing to accommodate the celebrity of lamps and Stevie g, two inferior players Gerrard certainly wasn’t inferior to Scholes He was.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 19:49:41 GMT
Gerrard certainly wasn’t inferior to Scholes He was. How so?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 19:50:38 GMT
Paul scholes on the wing. Perhaps one of the top 3 if not the best midfielder in the world at the time, the only midfielder England have produced who could dictate tempo in midfield, played on the wing to accommodate the celebrity of lamps and Stevie g, two inferior players Given Beckham's athleticism we could have played him and Cole as wingbacks, so allowing Scholes, Lamps and Gerrard to all play centrally. Wouldn't have restricted Beckham's dead ball role at all:. Who holds out of the three though? He should’ve just dropped one or both of Gerrard and Lampard - Gerrard for that tournament as Lampard was in better form. Gerrard was overrated generally imo.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 19:53:16 GMT
How was Gerrard better? Scholes was close to the complete midfielder at times (tackling aside). Gerrard could be great at times but at others he could be a headless chicken with a messiah complex and no sense of discipline. He needed a cool head behind him to cover for his Roy of the Rovers stuff - without a Hamann/Alonso/Lucas he was half the player and never looked as good for England.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 20:01:51 GMT
How was Gerrard better? Scholes was close to the complete midfielder at times (tackling aside). Gerrard could be great at times but at others he could be a headless chicken with a messiah complex and no sense of discipline. He needed a cool head behind him to cover for his Roy of the Rovers stuff - without a Hamann/Alonso/Lucas he was half the player and never looked as good for England. I don’t think you’re making a good case to be honest. Admittedly Scholes was world class in his pomp but Gerrard had the longevity. He snatched games from the jaws of defeat on many occasions through sheer determination and no little quality. He was for me the finest central midfielder in my life time. Technical ability you would say Scholes but you could say that about so many players who couldn’t hold a candle to Gerrard. Scholes had absolutely nowhere near the effect on his “team” as Gerrard had for many years. And let’s not forget Scholes’ petulant refusal to play for his country, says a lot about the man.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 20:09:44 GMT
How was Gerrard better? Scholes was close to the complete midfielder at times (tackling aside). Gerrard could be great at times but at others he could be a headless chicken with a messiah complex and no sense of discipline. He needed a cool head behind him to cover for his Roy of the Rovers stuff - without a Hamann/Alonso/Lucas he was half the player and never looked as good for England. I don’t think you’re making a good case to be honest. Admittedly Scholes was world class in his pomp but Gerrard had the longevity. He snatched games from the jaws of defeat on many occasions through sheer determination and no little quality. He was for me the finest central midfielder in my life time. Technical ability you would say Scholes but you could say that about so many players who couldn’t hold a candle to Gerrard. Scholes had absolutely nowhere near the effect on his “team” as Gerrard had for many years. And let’s not forget Scholes’ petulant refusal to play for his country, says a lot about the man. I don’t think Scholes retiring from international duty is relevant either way. Gerrard could do that but equally he could also go tear-arsing around trying to play the hero and leaving huge gaps. He was superb on his day but without that safety net behind him or against a player who could match his drive with smarts and technical ability he was exposed. He gets all the credit for Istanbul but it was Benitez putting Hamann on that freed Gerrard in that game. In the 2007 final two years later Gatusso owned him.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 20:20:19 GMT
I don’t think you’re making a good case to be honest. Admittedly Scholes was world class in his pomp but Gerrard had the longevity. He snatched games from the jaws of defeat on many occasions through sheer determination and no little quality. He was for me the finest central midfielder in my life time. Technical ability you would say Scholes but you could say that about so many players who couldn’t hold a candle to Gerrard. Scholes had absolutely nowhere near the effect on his “team” as Gerrard had for many years. And let’s not forget Scholes’ petulant refusal to play for his country, says a lot about the man. I don’t think Scholes retiring from international duty is relevant either way. Gerrard could do that but equally he could also go tear-arsing around trying to play the hero and leaving huge gaps. He was superb on his day but without that safety net behind him or against a player who could match his drive with smarts and technical ability he was exposed. He gets all the credit for Istanbul but it was Benitez putting Hamann on that freed Gerrard in that game. In the 2007 final two years later Gatusso owned him. I agree the Hamann sub was the difference. But I think it’s to Gerrards credit that he “played the hero”. That is something you’d never see Scholes do. He was just a good player, to be honest I can’t think of a single game where Scholes was head and shoulders above his team in the way Gerrard was. We will never agree on this so let’s leave it there. And if someone mentions the thing where Zidane makes an off the cuff comment about Scholes being the best midfielder in the world off a Man United fan I’ll scream!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 20:26:44 GMT
I don’t think Scholes retiring from international duty is relevant either way. Gerrard could do that but equally he could also go tear-arsing around trying to play the hero and leaving huge gaps. He was superb on his day but without that safety net behind him or against a player who could match his drive with smarts and technical ability he was exposed. He gets all the credit for Istanbul but it was Benitez putting Hamann on that freed Gerrard in that game. In the 2007 final two years later Gatusso owned him. I agree the Hamann sub was the difference. But I think it’s to Gerrards credit that he “played the hero”. That is something you’d never see Scholes do. He was just a good player, to be honest I can’t think of a single game where Scholes was head and shoulders above his team in the way Gerrard was. We will never agree on this so let’s leave it there. And if someone mentions the thing where Zidane makes an off the cuff comment about Scholes being the best midfielder in the world off a Man United fan I’ll scream! What I mean by ‘playing the hero’ is that his ego meant he tried to do it all himself and wander off shooting from all angles and neglecting any kind of tactical responsibilities. Again, without having someone selfless to pick up those pieces, that kind of thing becomes a liability pretty quickly. Scholes had countless games even deep into his career where he was outstanding, he was excellent in both of their runs to the European Cup in ‘99 and ‘08. Wasn’t just Zidane, Ronaldinho, Guardiola, Xavi all loved him. Do you think it might just be a case of a bit of anti-Man U bias?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 20:45:34 GMT
I agree the Hamann sub was the difference. But I think it’s to Gerrards credit that he “played the hero”. That is something you’d never see Scholes do. He was just a good player, to be honest I can’t think of a single game where Scholes was head and shoulders above his team in the way Gerrard was. We will never agree on this so let’s leave it there. And if someone mentions the thing where Zidane makes an off the cuff comment about Scholes being the best midfielder in the world off a Man United fan I’ll scream! What I mean by ‘playing the hero’ is that his ego meant he tried to do it all himself and wander off shooting from all angles and neglecting any kind of tactical responsibilities. Again, without having someone selfless to pick up those pieces, that kind of thing becomes a liability pretty quickly. Scholes had countless games even deep into his career where he was outstanding, he was excellent in both of their runs to the European Cup in ‘99 and ‘08. Wasn’t just Zidane, Ronaldinho, Guardiola, Xavi all loved him. Do you think it might just have a bit of anti-Man U bias? Not a bit no. To be honest I’m sick of arguing with Man United fans about Scholes v Gerrard. I’ll leave it at this. Scholes was more technically gifted, I’d agree with that. But Gerrard made the most his ability, was the a player who dragged average Liverpool sides to champions league, FA Cup etc glory. There is absolutely no way Paul Scholes would have had that effect on a team. He was a loner and played for himself, exemplified by his “I’m too good for England” attitude. To be honest I’m absolutely stunned by the lack of respect shown to Gerrard on this message board overall. It’s probably because he was more of a thorn in the side than Scholes was to Stoke fans
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