|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2022 20:59:06 GMT
What I mean by ‘playing the hero’ is that his ego meant he tried to do it all himself and wander off shooting from all angles and neglecting any kind of tactical responsibilities. Again, without having someone selfless to pick up those pieces, that kind of thing becomes a liability pretty quickly. Scholes had countless games even deep into his career where he was outstanding, he was excellent in both of their runs to the European Cup in ‘99 and ‘08. Wasn’t just Zidane, Ronaldinho, Guardiola, Xavi all loved him. Do you think it might just have a bit of anti-Man U bias? Not a bit no. To be honest I’m sick of arguing with Man United fans about Scholes v Gerrard. I’ll leave it at this. Scholes was more technically gifted, I’d agree with that. But Gerrard made the most his ability, was the a player who dragged average Liverpool sides to champions league, FA Cup etc glory. There is absolutely no way Paul Scholes would have had that effect on a team. He was a loner and played for himself, exemplified by his “I’m too good for England” attitude. To be honest I’m absolutely stunned by the lack of respect shown to Gerrard on this message board overall. It’s probably because he was more of a thorn in the side than Scholes was to Stoke fans Gerrard played for himself way more than Scholes did imo, ignoring better options in favour of going it alone. Not sure how Scholes played for himself, he was the definition of a team player. Not sure Gerrard was often a particularly massive thorn in our side was he? He scored three goals against us in eight seasons and two of those were in games we absolutely battered them in. Lampard was a player I didn’t realise was as good as he was til I saw him boss games against us.
|
|
|
Post by sticky on Sept 22, 2022 20:59:38 GMT
Scholes for me was a better player than Gerrard, madness to play him out wide.. as for not playing for England, his son has autism which he kept to himself over the years (when things were far from easy at home) didn’t want to be away from home which I completely understand having an autistic daughter myself. Saying that though badger Gerrard was class as well! And I’ve had many a pissed up discussion/arguments with my mates over the years about it😂👍🏻
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 21:03:14 GMT
Not a bit no. To be honest I’m sick of arguing with Man United fans about Scholes v Gerrard. I’ll leave it at this. Scholes was more technically gifted, I’d agree with that. But Gerrard made the most his ability, was the a player who dragged average Liverpool sides to champions league, FA Cup etc glory. There is absolutely no way Paul Scholes would have had that effect on a team. He was a loner and played for himself, exemplified by his “I’m too good for England” attitude. To be honest I’m absolutely stunned by the lack of respect shown to Gerrard on this message board overall. It’s probably because he was more of a thorn in the side than Scholes was to Stoke fans Gerrard played for himself way more than Scholes did imo, ignoring better options in favour of going it alone. Not sure how Scholes played for himself, he was the definition of a team player. Not sure Gerrard was often a particularly massive thorn in our side was he? He scored three goals against us in eight seasons and two of those were in games we absolutely battered them in. Lampard was a player I didn’t realise was as good as he was til I saw him boss games against us. Like I said well never agree on the subject. But I like these kinds of debates rather than the usual
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 22, 2022 21:06:59 GMT
Scholes for me was a better player than Gerrard, madness to play him out wide.. as for not playing for England, his son has autism which he kept to himself over the years (when things were far from easy at home) didn’t want to be away from home which I completely understand having an autistic daughter myself. Saying that though badger Gerrard was class as well! And I’ve had many a pissed up discussion/arguments with my mates over the years about it😂👍🏻 Didn’t know that his son had autism but I find it very hard to believe that was the reason he quit England. He simply threw his toys out of the pram because he thought he was better than the others and wasn’t being picked. Same with Carragher and Milner.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Sept 22, 2022 22:40:59 GMT
The 'golden generation' was peak English insularity . Yes, England had some very good players. But the idea ours were better than everybody else's is just silly. There seemed to be an obsession about just cramming in all our good players at all costs rather than having the balls to drop one or two of them in the name of finding the right balance as well. Hence the Lampard and Gerrard conundrum
|
|
|
Post by thewonderstuff on Sept 22, 2022 23:02:36 GMT
Looks lovely out there. Hopefully the 'lads' have got their 'Prince Edward' medals on.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 23, 2022 6:25:50 GMT
Looks lovely out there. Hopefully the 'lads' have got their 'Prince Edward' medals on. As with a Stoke away game they’re easily avoided mate,even in the smallest cities as they all congregate in one bar/area
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 23, 2022 6:27:59 GMT
Looks lovely out there. Hopefully the 'lads' have got their 'Prince Edward' medals on. As with a Stoke away game they’re easily avoided mate,even in the smallest cities as they all congregate in one bar/area Who’d have thought it, football fans drinking and singing crap songs. Typical of the post Brexit youth of today🙄
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 23, 2022 6:29:22 GMT
Just like the ridiculous Ronaldo/Messi argument ….why can’t we just agree that Scholes,Gerrard and Lampard were all fantastic footballers and on their day were as good as each other
I just enjoyed watching them all
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 23, 2022 6:30:23 GMT
As with a Stoke away game they’re easily avoided mate,even in the smallest cities as they all congregate in one bar/area Who’d have thought it, football fans drinking and singing crap songs. Typical of the post Brexit youth of today🙄 It’s embarrassing mate but each to their own Anyway back on track I’ll go 2-0 England
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 23, 2022 7:34:14 GMT
Who’d have thought it, football fans drinking and singing crap songs. Typical of the post Brexit youth of today🙄 It’s embarrassing mate but each to their own Anyway back on track I’ll go 2-0 England I was being sarky mate😉
|
|
|
Post by leicspotter on Sept 23, 2022 8:03:22 GMT
As with a Stoke away game they’re easily avoided mate,even in the smallest cities as they all congregate in one bar/area Who’d have thought it, football fans drinking and singing crap songs. Typical of the post Brexit youth of today🙄 Surely EVERYONE under 60 voted remain!?
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Sept 23, 2022 11:00:30 GMT
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 23, 2022 11:48:45 GMT
Not a bit no. To be honest I’m sick of arguing with Man United fans about Scholes v Gerrard. I’ll leave it at this. Scholes was more technically gifted, I’d agree with that. But Gerrard made the most his ability, was the a player who dragged average Liverpool sides to champions league, FA Cup etc glory. There is absolutely no way Paul Scholes would have had that effect on a team. He was a loner and played for himself, exemplified by his “I’m too good for England” attitude. To be honest I’m absolutely stunned by the lack of respect shown to Gerrard on this message board overall. It’s probably because he was more of a thorn in the side than Scholes was to Stoke fans Gerrard played for himself way more than Scholes did imo, ignoring better options in favour of going it alone. Not sure how Scholes played for himself, he was the definition of a team player. Not sure Gerrard was often a particularly massive thorn in our side was he? He scored three goals against us in eight seasons and two of those were in games we absolutely battered them in. Lampard was a player I didn’t realise was as good as he was til I saw him boss games against us. I would agree with that for what it's worth. I think Paul Scholes might have given the best performance at Stoke I saw during our Premier League years. They beat us 2-0 and he played centre mid, a little deeper than normal. Everything went through him. The ball kept coming back to him in space and he would hit another pass, often first time to stretch us. It was more like a Spanish style of footballer. I thought he was going to walk the ball into the net at one point. The problem with England... mainly I think successive managers trying to shoehorn in the best 11 players in the country. You could argue there wasn't room for Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard in the same team, especially if it meant Paul Scholes was shoved out to the left of midfield. As an example of taking those tough selection decisions, Alf Ramsey had the balls to drop Jimmy Greaves, who may still have the best goals to games ratio in an England shirt. (Although that honour may still belong to our own Freddie Steele...) With braver selection, we could have had a more balanced midfield and stronger bench. When we went out of the Euros to Portugal, they bought on Rui Costa who killed us in extra time. In contrast, Sven brought on Darius Vassell. I rest my case.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Sept 23, 2022 12:01:32 GMT
Saka LWB and Foden starting would be a bit more interesting
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 23, 2022 12:17:09 GMT
Just like the ridiculous Ronaldo/Messi argument ….why can’t we just agree that Scholes,Gerrard and Lampard were all fantastic footballers and on their day were as good as each other I just enjoyed watching them all Because it didn’t work?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 23, 2022 12:18:04 GMT
Saka LWB and Foden starting would be a bit more interesting Foden is our best player. Why wouldn’t he start?
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 23, 2022 12:19:40 GMT
Saka LWB and Foden starting would be a bit more interesting Foden is our best player. Why wouldn’t he start? More of a question of where he plays
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Sept 23, 2022 12:25:32 GMT
Saka LWB and Foden starting would be a bit more interesting Foden is our best player. Why wouldn’t he start? He doesn't really seem to know what to do with him to get him going for England, does he? And it would also involve him leaving Mount out, something he's normally reluctant to do. Even if Saka does start at LWB tonight, I'm sceptical he'd do it in an important game - and I think he'd go with Saka's pace over Foden's creativity if it came down to it to try and recreate the Rashford impact 3 or 4 years ago - OR go for Mount's off-the-ball reliability.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 23, 2022 12:26:41 GMT
Foden is our best player. Why wouldn’t he start? He doesn't really seem to know what to do with him to get him going for England, does he? And it would also involve him leaving Mount out, something he's normally reluctant to do. Even if Saka does start at LWB tonight, I'm sceptical he'd do it in an important game - and I think he'd go with Saka's pace over Foden's creativity if it came down to it to try and recreate the Rashford impact 3 or 4 years ago - OR go for Mount's off-the-ball reliability. All reasons why Southgate should have been sacked a while ago.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 23, 2022 12:55:15 GMT
Just like the ridiculous Ronaldo/Messi argument ….why can’t we just agree that Scholes,Gerrard and Lampard were all fantastic footballers and on their day were as good as each other I just enjoyed watching them all Because it didn’t work? That wasn’t my point Bayern but I get the point you are making if that makes sense All 3 were fantastic footballers in their own way
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 23, 2022 12:58:29 GMT
That wasn’t my point Bayern but I get the point you are making if that makes sense All 3 were fantastic footballers in their own way They were and I think that's why it was so frustrating that we couldn't make it work. Or we didn't have a manager with the balls to change them around and use them when needed and balanced.
|
|
|
Post by raythesailor on Sept 23, 2022 15:08:18 GMT
Not sure if I am out of date (I have been abroad for a while) but it would seem that all England games , excluding the WC and Euros, are now being shown on Ch4.
This is virtually guaranteeing Free To Air broadcasts for the national team for the next few years. Has to be good.
Apologies if this is old news. 😀⚓️
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 23, 2022 15:11:33 GMT
Does anyone know what the implications of getting relegated from the top tier actually are ?
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Sept 23, 2022 15:35:59 GMT
Does anyone know what the implications of getting relegated from the top tier actually are ? We just go into League B where we will play against poorer opposition, win every game and be promoted back to League A at the end of the next Nations League campaign.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Sept 23, 2022 16:07:58 GMT
Does anyone know what the implications of getting relegated from the top tier actually are ? We just go into League B where we will play against poorer opposition, win every game and be promoted back to League A at the end of the next Nations League campaign. Didn’t really work for Stoke
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Sept 23, 2022 17:21:40 GMT
Pope Walker-Dier-Maguire James-Rice-Bellingham-Saka Foden-Kane-Sterling
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 23, 2022 17:32:33 GMT
Pope Walker-Dier-Maguire James-Rice-Bellingham-Saka Foden-Kane-Sterling Fucking Slab Head🤬
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 23, 2022 17:34:18 GMT
Pope Walker-Dier-Maguire James-Rice-Bellingham-Saka Foden-Kane-Sterling Fucking Slab Head🤬 Slabhead and tugboat
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 23, 2022 18:29:43 GMT
I like that team, would have had Tomori over Maguire though.
|
|