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Post by followyoudown on Mar 20, 2022 11:07:32 GMT
That would be quite some change in the law to tax dividends paid in checks notes Dubai as UK paye and might be a tad tricky to enforce, the only people that might be caught are UK pension funds or other UK shareholders. Also if you want dividends to be taxed the same as PAYE you seem to be suggesting the abolition of corporation tax as dividends are paid out of profit after tax so dividends become some kind of taxable deduction. I think this might need some more work.... Yes, you are right. It needs work. Fortunately those far more informed than me spend years coming up with policy whereas I spend 5 mins thinking about it and type it out on a stoke message board. The fact remains, a lot more could be done, as proven by the fact French employees of P&O still have jobs but British ones don’t. The people sacked were treated dreadfully and the law has not been followed so they will have take the enhanced redundancy or claim and win unfair dismissal, P&O's name is dirt and the reputational damage is massive having said that if as a previous poster said they have lost £250m in the last few years even allowing for covid thats horrendous and I am not sure what you think can be done, the french laws give no real protection there a few hoops to jump through and it takes longer but still basically there is nothing to stop it. As for your claims of no french employees losing their jobs I'd wait on that, the 800 affected are all on boat crew, how many similar french staff is there ? I might also be cynical and suggest they won't do the same with French staff until the new staff are fully trained, whichever there is no way this is the end of redundancy and restructuring with 5000 employees (english office staff are not affected and cant be replaced in the same way, reading around there seems to be some employment peculiarities over working at sea that may enable people to be employed at rates below uk minimum wage and also employ people who wouldn't be eligible to work in the Uk). Still its good you finally recognise that freedom of movement is a bad thing, this sort of thing has essentially happened during our EU membership it might have been done more politely but make no mistake UK jobs were exported with the same end effect.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 20, 2022 11:09:33 GMT
Yes, you are right. It needs work. Fortunately those far more informed than me spend years coming up with policy whereas I spend 5 mins thinking about it and type it out on a stoke message board. The fact remains, a lot more could be done, as proven by the fact French employees of P&O still have jobs but British ones don’t. The people sacked were treated dreadfully and the law has not been followed so they will have take the enhanced redundancy or claim and win unfair dismissal, P&O's name is dirt and the reputational damage is massive having said that if as a previous poster said they have lost £250m in the last few years even allowing for covid thats horrendous and I am not sure what you think can be done, the french laws give no real protection there a few hoops to jump through and it takes longer but still basically there is nothing to stop it. As for your claims of no french employees losing their jobs I'd wait on that, the 800 affected are all on boat crew, how many similar french staff is there ? I might also be cynical and suggest they won't do the same with French staff until the new staff are fully trained, whichever there is no way this is the end of redundancy and restructuring with 5000 employees (english office staff are not affected and cant be replaced in the same way, reading around there seems to be some employment peculiarities over working at sea that may enable people to be employed at rates below uk minimum wage and also employ people who wouldn't be eligible to work in the Uk). Still its good you finally recognise that freedom of movement is a bad thing, this sort of thing has essentially happened during our EU membership it might have been done more politely but make no mistake UK jobs were exported with the same end effect. This happened after freedom of movement ended. In France, where they have freedom of movement, nobody got sacked.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 20, 2022 11:15:18 GMT
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity Did you figure that out looking in the mirror? Your sophomoric response displays outstanding repartee
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 20, 2022 11:21:06 GMT
The people sacked were treated dreadfully and the law has not been followed so they will have take the enhanced redundancy or claim and win unfair dismissal, P&O's name is dirt and the reputational damage is massive having said that if as a previous poster said they have lost £250m in the last few years even allowing for covid thats horrendous and I am not sure what you think can be done, the french laws give no real protection there a few hoops to jump through and it takes longer but still basically there is nothing to stop it. As for your claims of no french employees losing their jobs I'd wait on that, the 800 affected are all on boat crew, how many similar french staff is there ? I might also be cynical and suggest they won't do the same with French staff until the new staff are fully trained, whichever there is no way this is the end of redundancy and restructuring with 5000 employees (english office staff are not affected and cant be replaced in the same way, reading around there seems to be some employment peculiarities over working at sea that may enable people to be employed at rates below uk minimum wage and also employ people who wouldn't be eligible to work in the Uk). Still its good you finally recognise that freedom of movement is a bad thing, this sort of thing has essentially happened during our EU membership it might have been done more politely but make no mistake UK jobs were exported with the same end effect. This happened after freedom of movement ended. In France, where they have freedom of movement, nobody got sacked. Yet
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 20, 2022 14:57:00 GMT
This happened after freedom of movement ended. In France, where they have freedom of movement, nobody got sacked. Yet I bet the sacked British staff would prefer to be employed like the French staff rather than unemployed.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 21, 2022 12:31:31 GMT
Not yet verified but the story coming out know is that they're paying Indian seafarers through an agency the equivalent of £1.80 to work.......
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 21, 2022 14:03:08 GMT
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 21, 2022 14:11:04 GMT
I wonder if it's got anything to do with that crook Rishi Sunak's family business, 'Infosys', that specialises in off shoring jobs with cheap labour, decimating ones in this country? It wouldn't surprise me to find out he's raking it in because of this, the massive c*nt.
Not many cared when there was the arbitrary punishing of the self-employed during the pandemic (who sadly, very few people understood what was going on because of Tory media control), but now we have this mass redundancies because the country voted Brexit, and deregulations came into place, and no-one salaried job is safe now, there is understandable uproar.
Big business can run amok in the UK now, because the likes of Boris fucking Johnson and Rees Mogg lied to the electorate for their own gains.
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 21, 2022 14:22:01 GMT
Not yet verified but the story coming out know is that they're paying Indian seafarers through an agency the equivalent of £1.80 to work....... Under the Maritime Labour Convention (MLC) there are minimum wages policies which this falls WAY under. I very much doubt they would be allowed to do it. If they DO actually go ahead and pay them this , then the company would be in a world of shit believe me. Im sure theres far better nautical people on than me but the MLC was set up to combat EXACTLY this practice and going further, to protect the rights of maritime perosnnel around the world with regards to regulating hours, poor seafarer conditions, hygiene on board, being stranded in a foriegn land, affording assistance with re-patriation, plus many many more points.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 21, 2022 15:51:02 GMT
Not yet verified but the story coming out know is that they're paying Indian seafarers through an agency the equivalent of £1.80 to work....... Under the Maritime Labour Convention (MLC) there are minimum wages policies which this falls WAY under. I very much doubt they would be allowed to do it. If they DO actually go ahead and pay them this , then the company would be in a world of shit believe me. Im sure theres far better nautical people on than me but the MLC was set up to combat EXACTLY this practice and going further, to protect the rights of maritime perosnnel around the world with regards to regulating hours, poor seafarer conditions, hygiene on board, being stranded in a foriegn land, affording assistance with re-patriation, plus many many more points. Apparently they can perhaps the EU needs to look at their employment law that lets eu companies do this. The thing is if they go ahead their business will massively drop anyone who can will use other companies.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 21, 2022 15:59:56 GMT
I wonder if it's got anything to do with that crook Rishi Sunak's family business, 'Infosys', that specialises in off shoring jobs with cheap labour, decimating ones in this country? It wouldn't surprise me to find out he's raking it in because of this, the massive c*nt. Not many cared when there was the arbitrary punishing of the self-employed during the pandemic (who sadly, very few people understood what was going on because of Tory media control), but now we have this mass redundancies because the country voted Brexit, and deregulations came into place, and no-one salaried job is safe now, there is understandable uproar. Big business can run amok in the UK now, because the likes of Boris fucking Johnson and Rees Mogg lied to the electorate for their own gains. Of course blame the non white chancellor of the exchequer rather than the transport minister whose brief this comes under. And Dave no deregulation has actually happened and if you read into the story as mentioned below you'd see its EU law and maritime law that allows this and for the company to claim as they never set foot in the UK the new "workers" are not covered by uk employment law. No salaried job is ever safe all it does is guarentee you a salary and a notice period if it ever comes to it, any company making massive losses is entitled to restructure its business they can't do as here and pay under minimum wage though unless they move the jobs to another country too.
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 21, 2022 16:54:37 GMT
I wonder if it's got anything to do with that crook Rishi Sunak's family business, 'Infosys', that specialises in off shoring jobs with cheap labour, decimating ones in this country? It wouldn't surprise me to find out he's raking it in because of this, the massive c*nt. Not many cared when there was the arbitrary punishing of the self-employed during the pandemic (who sadly, very few people understood what was going on because of Tory media control), but now we have this mass redundancies because the country voted Brexit, and deregulations came into place, and no-one salaried job is safe now, there is understandable uproar. Big business can run amok in the UK now, because the likes of Boris fucking Johnson and Rees Mogg lied to the electorate for their own gains. Of course blame the non white chancellor of the exchequer rather than the transport minister whose brief this comes under. And Dave no deregulation has actually happened and if you read into the story as mentioned below you'd see its EU law and maritime law that allows this and for the company to claim as they never set foot in the UK the new "workers" are not covered by uk employment law. No salaried job is ever safe all it does is guarentee you a salary and a notice period if it ever comes to it, any company making massive losses is entitled to restructure its business they can't do as here and pay under minimum wage though unless they move the jobs to another country too. For the record, no mention of race from me whatsoever. I think Rishi's a prick (and always will now) because of what he has done to the self-employed and what his actions are now, rather than anything abhorrent such as racism. You have made the statement insinuating that because he is a 'non-white' chancellor, i dislike him for that reason. That is unequivocally false. His family's business (based in California) does do the offshoring for low wages with Indian workers. yes, we're not under EU law anymore because of Brexit, the French and Dutch workers have more protection because they're still in the EU. The British workers lost their jobs because we're not in the EU, after a campaign led by prominent Tories. In this instance, the workers have had no notice period, which leads to my thoughts, that big business can run amok, as they're not bound by EU law anymore.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 21, 2022 17:45:32 GMT
Of course blame the non white chancellor of the exchequer rather than the transport minister whose brief this comes under. And Dave no deregulation has actually happened and if you read into the story as mentioned below you'd see its EU law and maritime law that allows this and for the company to claim as they never set foot in the UK the new "workers" are not covered by uk employment law. No salaried job is ever safe all it does is guarentee you a salary and a notice period if it ever comes to it, any company making massive losses is entitled to restructure its business they can't do as here and pay under minimum wage though unless they move the jobs to another country too. For the record, no mention of race from me whatsoever. I think Rishi's a prick (and always will now) because of what he has done to the self-employed and what his actions are now, rather than anything abhorrent such as racism. You have made the statement insinuating that because he is a 'non-white' chancellor, i dislike him for that reason. That is unequivocally false. His family's business (based in California) does do the offshoring for low wages with Indian workers. yes, we're not under EU law anymore because of Brexit, the French and Dutch workers have more protection because they're still in the EU. The British workers lost their jobs because we're not in the EU, after a campaign led by prominent Tories. In this instance, the workers have had no notice period, which leads to my thoughts, that big business can run amok, as they're not bound by EU law anymore. Your last paragraph is incorrect. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act effectively copied EU law into UK law when the UK left the EU. Any subsequent changes have to be made by act of Parliament. There has been no legislation significantly changing UK employment law. UK Employers cannot " run amok". Foreign employers employing people under a foreign flag is a different matter. This sets it out more fully: www.legislation.gov.uk/eu-legislation-and-uk-lawThe government have started the process of introducing new UK law such as the Agriculture Act to phase out the EU Common Agriculture Policy. Critics say the government is moving too slowly getting rid of EU regulations. UK employment rights have hardly changed as a result of Brexit. As opposed to foreign workers seeking work in the UK where EU citizens are treated the same as other nations apart from those with special rights such as Irish and Hong-Kong citizens. See ACAS comments. www.acas.org.uk/brexit
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 21, 2022 18:06:16 GMT
Not yet verified but the story coming out know is that they're paying Indian seafarers through an agency the equivalent of £1.80 to work....... Completely unacceptable! Better off in liquidation that perpetuating that exploitation
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Post by superjw on Mar 21, 2022 18:18:34 GMT
Under the Maritime Labour Convention (MLC) there are minimum wages policies which this falls WAY under. I very much doubt they would be allowed to do it. If they DO actually go ahead and pay them this , then the company would be in a world of shit believe me. Im sure theres far better nautical people on than me but the MLC was set up to combat EXACTLY this practice and going further, to protect the rights of maritime perosnnel around the world with regards to regulating hours, poor seafarer conditions, hygiene on board, being stranded in a foriegn land, affording assistance with re-patriation, plus many many more points. Apparently they can perhaps the EU needs to look at their employment law that lets eu companies do this. The thing is if they go ahead their business will massively drop anyone who can will use other companies. They re registered the ships in 2019 aparrently, if so I wonder how they were still eligible for all of the Covid support they received from the taxpayer?
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Post by andystokey on Mar 21, 2022 18:57:37 GMT
Not yet verified but the story coming out know is that they're paying Indian seafarers through an agency the equivalent of £1.80 to work....... Under the Maritime Labour Convention (MLC) there are minimum wages policies which this falls WAY under. I very much doubt they would be allowed to do it. If they DO actually go ahead and pay them this , then the company would be in a world of shit believe me. Im sure theres far better nautical people on than me but the MLC was set up to combat EXACTLY this practice and going further, to protect the rights of maritime perosnnel around the world with regards to regulating hours, poor seafarer conditions, hygiene on board, being stranded in a foriegn land, affording assistance with re-patriation, plus many many more points. If cancel culture is useful for anything then P&O should become a pariah overnight for this.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2022 20:38:59 GMT
For the record, no mention of race from me whatsoever. I think Rishi's a prick (and always will now) because of what he has done to the self-employed and what his actions are now, rather than anything abhorrent such as racism. You have made the statement insinuating that because he is a 'non-white' chancellor, i dislike him for that reason. That is unequivocally false. His family's business (based in California) does do the offshoring for low wages with Indian workers. yes, we're not under EU law anymore because of Brexit, the French and Dutch workers have more protection because they're still in the EU. The British workers lost their jobs because we're not in the EU, after a campaign led by prominent Tories. In this instance, the workers have had no notice period, which leads to my thoughts, that big business can run amok, as they're not bound by EU law anymore. Your last paragraph is incorrect. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act effectively copied EU law into UK law when the UK left the EU. Any subsequent changes have to be made by act of Parliament. There has been no legislation significantly changing UK employment law. UK Employers cannot " run amok". Foreign employers employing people under a foreign flag is a different matter. This sets it out more fully: www.legislation.gov.uk/eu-legislation-and-uk-lawThe government have started the process of introducing new UK law such as the Agriculture Act to phase out the EU Common Agriculture Policy. Critics say the government is moving too slowly getting rid of EU regulations. UK employment rights have hardly changed as a result of Brexit. As opposed to foreign workers seeking work in the UK where EU citizens are treated the same as other nations apart from those with special rights such as Irish and Hong-Kong citizens. See ACAS comments. www.acas.org.uk/brexitI agree UK has altered very little UK Law relating to employment Indeed the Withdrawal Agreement guaranteed it wouldn't or face sanctions P&O actions are entirely illegal under UK and EU Law., THEY DONT CARE. They will/have offered Redundancy Terms at or above what any Industrial Tribunal would award. Can the individual sailors on a matter of principle take a legal route ... I doubt it In the first instance what I'd like to know is how in the hell did Eastern European/Indian sailors get Visa's to enter UK to be ready to crew these ships We next come to the moral or lack thereof aspect. DP World World have been granted Licences for 2 UK Freeports London Gateway and Southampton and are being given 50M Grants by UK Government for infrastructure improvements Are these an ethical company UK Government should be dealing with. DP World are also developing Freeports in Scotland and Wales. The licence for these requires DP World to pay employees a living wage. No such guarantee was required by English Gov⁵ernment Even more Bizarre the UK Sovereign Wealth Fund, soon to renamed British International Investments has invested as a junior partner $320M in a joint Venture with DP World to develop ports in Senegal, Egypt and Somaliland Furthermore they have committed to investing a further $400M I'm sure these operations will be managed entirely ethically...not While you will hear consecutive Government Ministers chirup and wring hands about P&O actions Not one will comment on this as it will be conveniently brushed under the carpet Welcome to Global Britain
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 22, 2022 10:43:29 GMT
Of course blame the non white chancellor of the exchequer rather than the transport minister whose brief this comes under. And Dave no deregulation has actually happened and if you read into the story as mentioned below you'd see its EU law and maritime law that allows this and for the company to claim as they never set foot in the UK the new "workers" are not covered by uk employment law. No salaried job is ever safe all it does is guarentee you a salary and a notice period if it ever comes to it, any company making massive losses is entitled to restructure its business they can't do as here and pay under minimum wage though unless they move the jobs to another country too. For the record, no mention of race from me whatsoever. I think Rishi's a prick (and always will now) because of what he has done to the self-employed and what his actions are now, rather than anything abhorrent such as racism. You have made the statement insinuating that because he is a 'non-white' chancellor, i dislike him for that reason. That is unequivocally false. His family's business (based in California) does do the offshoring for low wages with Indian workers. yes, we're not under EU law anymore because of Brexit, the French and Dutch workers have more protection because they're still in the EU. The British workers lost their jobs because we're not in the EU, after a campaign led by prominent Tories. In this instance, the workers have had no notice period, which leads to my thoughts, that big business can run amok, as they're not bound by EU law anymore. No overt mention of race but you whole wondering if his wifes fathers company is involved is based on them being indian and because of the claim indian employees would replace p&o workers. It would literally take seconds to google infosys to find out their hq is in india not california and the work they do is digital services, consulting, IT services some of those outsourced for global companies they don't however provide sailors for £1.50 an hour. You have form for this previously you claimed his wifes company had millions of furlough money before closing down when actually it was just a company she invested in and owned about 13% off. The british workers lost their jobs because p&o lost £100m last year, uk employment law has not changed since we left the EU by failing to offer proper notice they have breached uk employment law so the employees can claim unfair dismissal or take the enhanced redundancy offered to try and bypass this. Businesses have done this for years they usually offer compromise agreements and pay 6 months redundancy instead of 8 weeks or whatever when they want to avoid the redundancy process, I contracted at a bank for 12 months and saw it happen a couple of times departments of people laughing and joking at 8 30am called to a meeting at 9am sacked and walked out of the building at 9 05am by security not even allowed back to their desks to get coats and bags someone fetched those for them.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 22, 2022 10:49:05 GMT
Apparently they can perhaps the EU needs to look at their employment law that lets eu companies do this. The thing is if they go ahead their business will massively drop anyone who can will use other companies. They re registered the ships in 2019 aparrently, if so I wonder how they were still eligible for all of the Covid support they received from the taxpayer? The covid support was basically to pay the wages of uk staff wasn't it ?
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 22, 2022 11:36:46 GMT
Your last paragraph is incorrect. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act effectively copied EU law into UK law when the UK left the EU. Any subsequent changes have to be made by act of Parliament. There has been no legislation significantly changing UK employment law. UK Employers cannot " run amok". Foreign employers employing people under a foreign flag is a different matter. This sets it out more fully: www.legislation.gov.uk/eu-legislation-and-uk-lawThe government have started the process of introducing new UK law such as the Agriculture Act to phase out the EU Common Agriculture Policy. Critics say the government is moving too slowly getting rid of EU regulations. UK employment rights have hardly changed as a result of Brexit. As opposed to foreign workers seeking work in the UK where EU citizens are treated the same as other nations apart from those with special rights such as Irish and Hong-Kong citizens. See ACAS comments. www.acas.org.uk/brexitI agree UK has altered very little UK Law relating to employment Indeed the Withdrawal Agreement guaranteed it wouldn't or face sanctions P&O actions are entirely illegal under UK and EU Law., THEY DONT CARE. They will/have offered Redundancy Terms at or above what any Industrial Tribunal would award. Can the individual sailors on a matter of principle take a legal route ... I doubt it In the first instance what I'd like to know is how in the hell did Eastern European/Indian sailors get Visa's to enter UK to be ready to crew these ships We next come to the moral or lack thereof aspect. DP World World have been granted Licences for 2 UK Freeports London Gateway and Southampton and are being given 50M Grants by UK Government for infrastructure improvements Are these an ethical company UK Government should be dealing with. DP World are also developing Freeports in Scotland and Wales. The licence for these requires DP World to pay employees a living wage. No such guarantee was required by English Gov⁵ernment Even more Bizarre the UK Sovereign Wealth Fund, soon to renamed British International Investments has invested as a junior partner $320M in a joint Venture with DP World to develop ports in Senegal, Egypt and Somaliland Furthermore they have committed to investing a further $400M I'm sure these operations will be managed entirely ethically...not While you will hear consecutive Government Ministers chirup and wring hands about P&O actions Not one will comment on this as it will be conveniently brushed under the carpet Welcome to Global Britain I don't have any issue with your post. As I have repeatedly posted for years I supported Brexit so we are governed by politicians we have elected. The downside of that is if the British people elect a "bad" government, we get bad government. But I'd prefer that to legislation from Brussels, and look forward to the day we have a progressive, liberal government like New Zealand where I have relatives. Britain has always been global, with peoples moving to this country from the dawn of history. Apart from strong ties with Europe, we still have strong ties with Commonwealth countries, former Commonwealth, Empire, and colonies including the USA (most of the time!). The world gets smaller every day. Communications get faster. I don't know how Eastern Europeans and Indians got visas. I do know there is a whole range of different visas for visitors, relatives, workers, etc. I imagine they are just visitors who are going to work on foreign ships? What P&O have done is disgusting. If it is illegal they will be prosecuted and have to pay compensation. As to the future, we just don't use P&O; there are lots of businesses I have shunned and gone elsewhere. Which reminds me of a story about my father, who used to go to watch Stoke and the Vale every week in the 50s. He was a commercial traveller and had a car, which he parked in the same place each week, few people had cars then. One Saturday he went to the Vale and parked and a steward approached him and told him he could not park there. When my father asked why not, he was told one of the directors had bought a car and wanted to park there. My father said "W ell tell the director he is welcome to my parking slot, as I won't be needing it again". He got back in his car and left and never went back to the Vale.
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 22, 2022 18:18:17 GMT
For the record, no mention of race from me whatsoever. I think Rishi's a prick (and always will now) because of what he has done to the self-employed and what his actions are now, rather than anything abhorrent such as racism. You have made the statement insinuating that because he is a 'non-white' chancellor, i dislike him for that reason. That is unequivocally false. His family's business (based in California) does do the offshoring for low wages with Indian workers. yes, we're not under EU law anymore because of Brexit, the French and Dutch workers have more protection because they're still in the EU. The British workers lost their jobs because we're not in the EU, after a campaign led by prominent Tories. In this instance, the workers have had no notice period, which leads to my thoughts, that big business can run amok, as they're not bound by EU law anymore. No overt mention of race but you whole wondering if his wifes fathers company is involved is based on them being indian and because of the claim indian employees would replace p&o workers. It would literally take seconds to google infosys to find out their hq is in india not california and the work they do is digital services, consulting, IT services some of those outsourced for global companies they don't however provide sailors for £1.50 an hour. You have form for this previously you claimed his wifes company had millions of furlough money before closing down when actually it was just a company she invested in and owned about 13% off. The british workers lost their jobs because p&o lost £100m last year, uk employment law has not changed since we left the EU by failing to offer proper notice they have breached uk employment law so the employees can claim unfair dismissal or take the enhanced redundancy offered to try and bypass this. Businesses have done this for years they usually offer compromise agreements and pay 6 months redundancy instead of 8 weeks or whatever when they want to avoid the redundancy process, I contracted at a bank for 12 months and saw it happen a couple of times departments of people laughing and joking at 8 30am called to a meeting at 9am sacked and walked out of the building at 9 05am by security not even allowed back to their desks to get coats and bags someone fetched those for them. Not even the slightest bit overt. It's pretty poor that you'd pull that out of thin air and even bothered to mention it. It says more about yourself, than it does me. If it was a white labour MP and their family doing the same thing, i would still say the same. ok, Rishi's father in law is in California. Happy?
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Post by wannabee on Mar 22, 2022 20:14:20 GMT
I agree UK has altered very little UK Law relating to employment Indeed the Withdrawal Agreement guaranteed it wouldn't or face sanctions P&O actions are entirely illegal under UK and EU Law., THEY DONT CARE. They will/have offered Redundancy Terms at or above what any Industrial Tribunal would award. Can the individual sailors on a matter of principle take a legal route ... I doubt it In the first instance what I'd like to know is how in the hell did Eastern European/Indian sailors get Visa's to enter UK to be ready to crew these ships We next come to the moral or lack thereof aspect. DP World World have been granted Licences for 2 UK Freeports London Gateway and Southampton and are being given 50M Grants by UK Government for infrastructure improvements Are these an ethical company UK Government should be dealing with. DP World are also developing Freeports in Scotland and Wales. The licence for these requires DP World to pay employees a living wage. No such guarantee was required by English Gov⁵ernment Even more Bizarre the UK Sovereign Wealth Fund, soon to renamed British International Investments has invested as a junior partner $320M in a joint Venture with DP World to develop ports in Senegal, Egypt and Somaliland Furthermore they have committed to investing a further $400M I'm sure these operations will be managed entirely ethically...not While you will hear consecutive Government Ministers chirup and wring hands about P&O actions Not one will comment on this as it will be conveniently brushed under the carpet Welcome to Global Britain I don't have any issue with your post. As I have repeatedly posted for years I supported Brexit so we are governed by politicians we have elected. The downside of that is if the British people elect a "bad" government, we get bad government. But I'd prefer that to legislation from Brussels, and look forward to the day we have a progressive, liberal government like New Zealand where I have relatives. Britain has always been global, with peoples moving to this country from the dawn of history. Apart from strong ties with Europe, we still have strong ties with Commonwealth countries, former Commonwealth, Empire, and colonies including the USA (most of the time!). The world gets smaller every day. Communications get faster. I don't know how Eastern Europeans and Indians got visas. I do know there is a whole range of different visas for visitors, relatives, workers, etc. I imagine they are just visitors who are going to work on foreign ships? What P&O have done is disgusting. If it is illegal they will be prosecuted and have to pay compensation. As to the future, we just don't use P&O; there are lots of businesses I have shunned and gone elsewhere. Which reminds me of a story about my father, who used to go to watch Stoke and the Vale every week in the 50s. He was a commercial traveller and had a car, which he parked in the same place each week, few people had cars then. One Saturday he went to the Vale and parked and a steward approached him and told him he could not park there. When my father asked why not, he was told one of the directors had bought a car and wanted to park there. My father said "W ell tell the director he is welcome to my parking slot, as I won't be needing it again". He got back in his car and left and never went back to the Vale. I fully accept the Brexit debate is over My objection then and now and I think you at least partially accept is that we are governed by charlatans and opportunists I question their motives and the direction they are taking this country primarily, in my view, for personal reasons Much of their ideology was laid out in 2011 in Britain Unchained and now 5 of the 6 authors hold cabinet positions It's depressing that many on this board, not you, accept without question Four legs good (Tories) Two legs bad(everyone else) The opposition is ineffective and inept unfortunately To my knowledge, I may be wrong. Not a single MP has questioned UK Sovereign Wealth (Your and my money) being involved with DP World, P&O Parent Company realassets.ipe.com/news/dp-world-uks-cdc-to-invest-17bn-in-ports-logistics-across-africa/10055596.article
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 22, 2022 20:40:55 GMT
I don't have any issue with your post. As I have repeatedly posted for years I supported Brexit so we are governed by politicians we have elected. The downside of that is if the British people elect a "bad" government, we get bad government. But I'd prefer that to legislation from Brussels, and look forward to the day we have a progressive, liberal government like New Zealand where I have relatives. Britain has always been global, with peoples moving to this country from the dawn of history. Apart from strong ties with Europe, we still have strong ties with Commonwealth countries, former Commonwealth, Empire, and colonies including the USA (most of the time!). The world gets smaller every day. Communications get faster. I don't know how Eastern Europeans and Indians got visas. I do know there is a whole range of different visas for visitors, relatives, workers, etc. I imagine they are just visitors who are going to work on foreign ships? What P&O have done is disgusting. If it is illegal they will be prosecuted and have to pay compensation. As to the future, we just don't use P&O; there are lots of businesses I have shunned and gone elsewhere. Which reminds me of a story about my father, who used to go to watch Stoke and the Vale every week in the 50s. He was a commercial traveller and had a car, which he parked in the same place each week, few people had cars then. One Saturday he went to the Vale and parked and a steward approached him and told him he could not park there. When my father asked why not, he was told one of the directors had bought a car and wanted to park there. My father said "W ell tell the director he is welcome to my parking slot, as I won't be needing it again". He got back in his car and left and never went back to the Vale. I fully accept the Brexit debate is over My objection then and now and I think you at least partially accept is that we are governed by charlatans and opportunists I question their motives and the direction they are taking this country primarily, in my view, for personal reasons Much of their ideology was laid out in 2011 in Britain Unchained and now 5 of the 6 authors hold cabinet positions It's depressing that many on this board, not you, accept without question Four legs good (Tories) Two legs bad(everyone else) The opposition is ineffective and inept unfortunately To my knowledge, I may be wrong. Not a single MP has questioned UK Sovereign Wealth (Your and my money) being involved with DP World, P&O Parent Company realassets.ipe.com/news/dp-world-uks-cdc-to-invest-17bn-in-ports-logistics-across-africa/10055596.articleWhen was the last time we weren’t governed by someone who wasn’t a charlatan and opportunist? Macmillan?
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 23, 2022 9:25:45 GMT
Arn't charlatan and opportunist synonyms for politician?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 23, 2022 10:10:40 GMT
I don't subscribe to this acceptance that all politicians are the same, essentially opportunistic charlatans just out for themselves. It's basically just lazy thinking that lets them off the hook far too easily.
As in all walks of life, some no doubt are like that, some are better or worse than others, but, if you are at all interested in how your country is run and how it impacts on you and perhaps more importantly those worse off than you, then you need to hold these people to account, not just shrug and say "it is what it is".
"They're all the same" is clearly not believed by people anyway. Nobody really thinks that, otherwise no-one would bother to vote, or they'd all vote for the same party, safe in the knowledge that they're all the same so it makes no difference how they vote.
You quite often get the "they're all the same" offering from those who are disappointed or critical of the way their own preferred side is delivering, especially if it happens to be in government. It's understandable. It's easier to deal with the frustration and disappointment if the alternative is reduced to the same level of incompetence.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 23, 2022 10:30:04 GMT
No overt mention of race but you whole wondering if his wifes fathers company is involved is based on them being indian and because of the claim indian employees would replace p&o workers. It would literally take seconds to google infosys to find out their hq is in india not california and the work they do is digital services, consulting, IT services some of those outsourced for global companies they don't however provide sailors for £1.50 an hour. You have form for this previously you claimed his wifes company had millions of furlough money before closing down when actually it was just a company she invested in and owned about 13% off. The british workers lost their jobs because p&o lost £100m last year, uk employment law has not changed since we left the EU by failing to offer proper notice they have breached uk employment law so the employees can claim unfair dismissal or take the enhanced redundancy offered to try and bypass this. Businesses have done this for years they usually offer compromise agreements and pay 6 months redundancy instead of 8 weeks or whatever when they want to avoid the redundancy process, I contracted at a bank for 12 months and saw it happen a couple of times departments of people laughing and joking at 8 30am called to a meeting at 9am sacked and walked out of the building at 9 05am by security not even allowed back to their desks to get coats and bags someone fetched those for them. Not even the slightest bit overt. It's pretty poor that you'd pull that out of thin air and even bothered to mention it. It says more about yourself, than it does me. If it was a white labour MP and their family doing the same thing, i would still say the same. ok, Rishi's father in law is in California. Happy? Try google again Rishi's father in law is in India, he's indian thats where his companies HQ is, from that I wonder if you can work out why an indian company specialising as I mentioned previously employs indian staff, there is however no link to £1.50 an hour seafarers, the fact you keep going on about california is telling.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 23, 2022 10:39:10 GMT
I don't have any issue with your post. As I have repeatedly posted for years I supported Brexit so we are governed by politicians we have elected. The downside of that is if the British people elect a "bad" government, we get bad government. But I'd prefer that to legislation from Brussels, and look forward to the day we have a progressive, liberal government like New Zealand where I have relatives. Britain has always been global, with peoples moving to this country from the dawn of history. Apart from strong ties with Europe, we still have strong ties with Commonwealth countries, former Commonwealth, Empire, and colonies including the USA (most of the time!). The world gets smaller every day. Communications get faster. I don't know how Eastern Europeans and Indians got visas. I do know there is a whole range of different visas for visitors, relatives, workers, etc. I imagine they are just visitors who are going to work on foreign ships? What P&O have done is disgusting. If it is illegal they will be prosecuted and have to pay compensation. As to the future, we just don't use P&O; there are lots of businesses I have shunned and gone elsewhere. Which reminds me of a story about my father, who used to go to watch Stoke and the Vale every week in the 50s. He was a commercial traveller and had a car, which he parked in the same place each week, few people had cars then. One Saturday he went to the Vale and parked and a steward approached him and told him he could not park there. When my father asked why not, he was told one of the directors had bought a car and wanted to park there. My father said "W ell tell the director he is welcome to my parking slot, as I won't be needing it again". He got back in his car and left and never went back to the Vale. I fully accept the Brexit debate is over My objection then and now and I think you at least partially accept is that we are governed by charlatans and opportunists I question their motives and the direction they are taking this country primarily, in my view, for personal reasons Much of their ideology was laid out in 2011 in Britain Unchained and now 5 of the 6 authors hold cabinet positions It's depressing that many on this board, not you, accept without question Four legs good (Tories) Two legs bad(everyone else) The opposition is ineffective and inept unfortunately To my knowledge, I may be wrong. Not a single MP has questioned UK Sovereign Wealth (Your and my money) being involved with DP World, P&O Parent Company realassets.ipe.com/news/dp-world-uks-cdc-to-invest-17bn-in-ports-logistics-across-africa/10055596.articleIgnoring everything else the CDC not sovereign wealth fund is basically FCDO funded from taxes and seems to partner with private companies for infrastructure projects that we spend foreign aid on, if you are investing/upgrading/building port infrastructure in some of the poorest countries in the world there's probably a very limited pool of partners, I'd guess the impact on reducing poverty in these countries probably outweighs the loss of 800 british jobs no matter how shitty they behaved.
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Post by thebet365 on Mar 23, 2022 10:41:28 GMT
Apparently they can perhaps the EU needs to look at their employment law that lets eu companies do this. The thing is if they go ahead their business will massively drop anyone who can will use other companies. They re registered the ships in 2019 aparrently, if so I wonder how they were still eligible for all of the Covid support they received from the taxpayer? They will of had a uk payroll scheme, all JRS claims were linked to historical data from the payroll scheme. Well in theory it was supposed to be but from what I've seen certain things weren't checked very rigorously.
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 23, 2022 13:02:09 GMT
Not even the slightest bit overt. It's pretty poor that you'd pull that out of thin air and even bothered to mention it. It says more about yourself, than it does me. If it was a white labour MP and their family doing the same thing, i would still say the same. ok, Rishi's father in law is in California. Happy? Try google again Rishi's father in law is in India, he's indian thats where his companies HQ is, from that I wonder if you can work out why an indian company specialising as I mentioned previously employs indian staff, there is however no link to £1.50 an hour seafarers, the fact you keep going on about california is telling. what a strange reply. Aren't people allowed to move and have houses anywhere else? Aren't low paid indian workers being employed at P&O over those who have just been sacked? And regarding the seafaring employees. You'll see i started my post with "I wonder .... " I didn't state they were, but it would be of course no surprise 'should' it come to light.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 23, 2022 15:05:41 GMT
I fully accept the Brexit debate is over My objection then and now and I think you at least partially accept is that we are governed by charlatans and opportunists I question their motives and the direction they are taking this country primarily, in my view, for personal reasons Much of their ideology was laid out in 2011 in Britain Unchained and now 5 of the 6 authors hold cabinet positions It's depressing that many on this board, not you, accept without question Four legs good (Tories) Two legs bad(everyone else) The opposition is ineffective and inept unfortunately To my knowledge, I may be wrong. Not a single MP has questioned UK Sovereign Wealth (Your and my money) being involved with DP World, P&O Parent Company realassets.ipe.com/news/dp-world-uks-cdc-to-invest-17bn-in-ports-logistics-across-africa/10055596.articleIgnoring everything else the CDC not sovereign wealth fund is basically FCDO funded from taxes and seems to partner with private companies for infrastructure projects that we spend foreign aid on, if you are investing/upgrading/building port infrastructure in some of the poorest countries in the world there's probably a very limited pool of partners, I'd guess the impact on reducing poverty in these countries probably outweighs the loss of 800 british jobs no matter how shitty they behaved. I agree CDC now rebranded as BII British International Investment is the investment vehicle of FCDO It has a very chequered past and has consistently been accused of amongst other things a) Excessive Pay to its Executives b) Poor selection of Investment favouring profit rather than alleviating poverty c) The majority of investments in tax haven and d) it's published accounts "Opaque" www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/15/cdc-commonwealth-development-accused-wastefulness-scerecy-povertyThe essential point I raised was given the evident business practices of DP World was it an appropriate partner for BII The further implication being are DP World likely to continue using these sharp practices using UK Tax Payers Money Incidentally it is interesting that the £50M DP World will receive in Grants from UK Government will more than cover the published £36M it is proposing in Redundancy to the sacked 800 P&O workers
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