|
Post by oggyoggy on Mar 18, 2022 9:33:38 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sorethumbs on Mar 18, 2022 10:04:26 GMT
Why are they spending £100m (the same figure as their supposed pandemic losses) on being the title sponsor of the European Golf Tour? I'm sure some of you must be able to find some link between sponsorship or golf or SOMETHING that you can link to Brexit. Me - I've no idea why. Marketing is an important part of business. Viability is also an important part of business. £100m losses 'year on year' is not sustainable, £270m in dividend payments in 2020 suggests that things were going ok until something happened in 2020. How long have the losses been going on? It was taken on by DP World in 2019 with the CEO saying he was 'delighted' to be taking it on. Must have been something in it, you don't take on a loss making business without knowing what the future holds and we didn't know about Covid in 2019. That's if it was making a loss at all when it was aquired - "P&O Ferries has delivered a robust performance in recent years and we aim to drive further value through increasing efficiencies and offering value-added solutions to our customers," he said. "Overall the transaction offers compelling value strategically and financially, and we look forward to P&O Ferries contributing to driving shareholder value in the coming years." Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem, DP World's chairman and chief executive. Brexit was still being sorted - Coronavirus was yet to strike. So how this can be attributed as a 'Brexit bonus' is just BS, Covid is obviously the biggest contributer , rising costs of fuel will be another burden
|
|
|
Post by sorethumbs on Mar 18, 2022 10:14:08 GMT
You've edited as I was writing the response. Governments can set laws but they can't tell a company how to run its affairs and spend its money, let alone encourage it not to spend money
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 10:19:07 GMT
Been losing money hand over fist for years. A quarter of a billion pounds in total. Not sure why is the government's responsibility but I guess some need no excuse.
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Mar 18, 2022 10:24:38 GMT
So why are they taking on staff in the same/similar roles via an agency? Don't know if there are any figures out there, but if they are losing as much money as claimed then the fire and rehire with agency won't plug that hole as the same jobs will need filling else the ships can't sail. The net cost saving of using agency will not be that much in the end
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Mar 18, 2022 10:34:32 GMT
Been losing money hand over fist for years. A quarter of a billion pounds in total. Not sure why is the government's responsibility but I guess some need no excuse. For some, everything is down to one of 1) the Tories, 2) Brexit or 3) free market capitalism and often a combination of two or sometimes all three. Of course it ain’t always primarily down to those factors. Sometimes, like here it would appear, it’s down to a poorly run company. But, banging a tired old drum seems to keep some folk happy.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 10:36:22 GMT
Been losing money hand over fist for years. A quarter of a billion pounds in total. Not sure why is the government's responsibility but I guess some need no excuse. For some, everything is down to one of 1) the Tories, 2) Brexit or 3) free market capitalism and often a combination of two or sometimes all three. Of course it ain’t always primarily down to those factors. Sometimes, like here it would appear, it’s down to a poorly run company. But, banging a tired old drum seems to keep some folk happy. Their losses are scary and not COVID related although hasn't helped of course. Should a company with mammoth losses be bailed out when no hope of recovery? Of course not
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Mar 18, 2022 10:53:55 GMT
For some, everything is down to one of 1) the Tories, 2) Brexit or 3) free market capitalism and often a combination of two or sometimes all three. Of course it ain’t always primarily down to those factors. Sometimes, like here it would appear, it’s down to a poorly run company. But, banging a tired old drum seems to keep some folk happy. Their losses are scary and not COVID related although hasn't helped of course. Should a company with mammoth losses be bailed out when no hope of recovery? Of course not Fortunately there are other companies out there that, it seems, will be able to take the slack. So, it would seem it’s goodbye P&O Ferries, well after they’ve been taken to court and hopefully punished. Maybe we could even see some personal action against the folk at the top of the organisation. Their CEO for example. Worth keeping an eye on other Dubai related actions. P&O report directly to the top man in Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, who is not unknown to UK courts having previously been found to be a twat of the highest order. So, the UKG has a few things it could do. The sad thing is the people who works for P&O are in the shit although some will hopefully get jobs with other ferry companies.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 18, 2022 10:57:28 GMT
Like it or not Brexit has played a crucial role in P&O's demise.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Mar 18, 2022 10:58:15 GMT
You've edited as I was writing the response. Governments can set laws but they can't tell a company how to run its affairs and spend its money, let alone encourage it not to spend money They could. No payouts to shareholders if you have a black hole in your pension fund. There’s a good start. What about the ability to tax shareholders for dividends paid going back a few years if the company then has mass redundancies like this one? Discourage companies from doing it.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 18, 2022 10:59:48 GMT
It's odd, isn't it, how many people will convince themselves this is just P&O being cunts, and nothing at all to do with how our own government votes on fire/rehire type legislation or how much its ministers argue for less employee power... It’s like Brexit. It is all about deregulation of the basic protections the EU put in place for consumers, employees and the public to stop big businesses doing what they like and making more money for their shareholders. It astonishes me that anyone who isn’t a multi millionaire votes tory when their policies are so blatantly for the fat cats. The response is always “Labour are crap”. Don’t vote labour then, don’t vote at all. Or even better, vote for a party that is pro a proper democratic system that gets rid of first past the post and means that every vote will actually count. But a vote for tory unless you are a millionaire is the height of stupidity. Unless you are on P&O’s side in what has happened. Yep, doing everything as cheaply as possible for the forthcoming years, to make up for the fact that the country is going to be up to £100bn a year worse off, every year for the next fifteen or so, according to our own government's analysis. No surprise at all that erosion of employees' rights and de-regulation would be the way forward. I thought Brexit was about British jobs for British workers, higher wages for British workers and getting rid of all that EU red tape so we can better protect our own workers? Laughable how easily this kind of stuff gets passed off as "just one of those things that happens in a free market".
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Mar 18, 2022 11:00:44 GMT
Been losing money hand over fist for years. A quarter of a billion pounds in total. Not sure why is the government's responsibility but I guess some need no excuse. Their parent company paid out £220m to shareholders in 2020. The government should legislate to tax that 100% if the company (or related company) then makes mass redundancies a couple of years later. Why is it ok to not fund a pension fund for employees but to pay out hundreds of millions to shareholders? The government could legislate against this. They don’t.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Mar 18, 2022 11:03:08 GMT
Why are they spending £100m (the same figure as their supposed pandemic losses) on being the title sponsor of the European Golf Tour? I'm sure some of you must be able to find some link between sponsorship or golf or SOMETHING that you can link to Brexit. Me - I've no idea why. Marketing is an important part of business. Viability is also an important part of business. £100m losses 'year on year' is not sustainable, £270m in dividend payments in 2020 suggests that things were going ok until something happened in 2020. How long have the losses been going on? It was taken on by DP World in 2019 with the CEO saying he was 'delighted' to be taking it on. Must have been something in it, you don't take on a loss making business without knowing what the future holds and we didn't know about Covid in 2019. That's if it was making a loss at all when it was aquired - "P&O Ferries has delivered a robust performance in recent years and we aim to drive further value through increasing efficiencies and offering value-added solutions to our customers," he said. "Overall the transaction offers compelling value strategically and financially, and we look forward to P&O Ferries contributing to driving shareholder value in the coming years." Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem, DP World's chairman and chief executive. Brexit was still being sorted - Coronavirus was yet to strike. So how this can be attributed as a 'Brexit bonus' is just BS, Covid is obviously the biggest contributer , rising costs of fuel will be another burden I didn’t say Brexit bonus. You have got the wrong person. Brexit and deregulation is a bad thing. I don’t think it is the cause of this (it is one of many), the main one being the government failing to protect employee’s pension pots and jobs whilst allowing parent companies to pay out hundreds of millions to shareholders. It is a disgrace.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Mar 18, 2022 11:05:58 GMT
Been losing money hand over fist for years. A quarter of a billion pounds in total. Not sure why is the government's responsibility but I guess some need no excuse. For some, everything is down to one of 1) the Tories, 2) Brexit or 3) free market capitalism and often a combination of two or sometimes all three. Of course it ain’t always primarily down to those factors. Sometimes, like here it would appear, it’s down to a poorly run company. But, banging a tired old drum seems to keep some folk happy. Are you saying there is absolutely nothing a government could do to protect employees of a business from sacking them after their owner pays out £220m in dividends to shareholders 2 years earlier? And when there is a mass deficit in the employee pension fund. They could pass laws to prevent it. Protect the employees not the business.
|
|
|
Post by phileetin on Mar 18, 2022 11:13:19 GMT
Like it or not Brexit has played a crucial role in P&O's demise. how ?
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 18, 2022 11:17:55 GMT
Like it or not Brexit has played a crucial role in P&O's demise. how ? Huge amounts lost on the freight run, freight now routing around our west coast and then on to France and Spain.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 18, 2022 11:19:44 GMT
For some, everything is down to one of 1) the Tories, 2) Brexit or 3) free market capitalism and often a combination of two or sometimes all three. Of course it ain’t always primarily down to those factors. Sometimes, like here it would appear, it’s down to a poorly run company. But, banging a tired old drum seems to keep some folk happy. Are you saying there is absolutely nothing a government could do to protect employees of a business from sacking them after their owner pays out £220m in dividends to shareholders 2 years earlier? And when there is a mass deficit in the employee pension fund. They could pass laws to prevent it. Protect the employees not the business. They could and should have. In fact Labour tabled a motion to stop fire and rehire. The Tories voted it down and are now apparently shocked and saddened at what's happening. For some people on here to suggest it's nothing to do with this shitshow of a government beggars belief.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 11:25:44 GMT
Are you saying there is absolutely nothing a government could do to protect employees of a business from sacking them after their owner pays out £220m in dividends to shareholders 2 years earlier? And when there is a mass deficit in the employee pension fund. They could pass laws to prevent it. Protect the employees not the business. They could and should have. In fact Labour tabled a motion to stop fire and rehire. The Tories voted it down and are now apparently shocked and saddened at what's happening. For some people on here to suggest it's nothing to do with this shitshow of a government beggars belief. Beggars belief that a massively failing company for years should be bailed out.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 18, 2022 11:38:31 GMT
They could and should have. In fact Labour tabled a motion to stop fire and rehire. The Tories voted it down and are now apparently shocked and saddened at what's happening. For some people on here to suggest it's nothing to do with this shitshow of a government beggars belief. Beggars belief that a massively failing company for years should be bailed out. Massively failing in the sense that they paid out £200 odd million in shareholder dividends.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Mar 18, 2022 11:49:01 GMT
They could and should have. In fact Labour tabled a motion to stop fire and rehire. The Tories voted it down and are now apparently shocked and saddened at what's happening. For some people on here to suggest it's nothing to do with this shitshow of a government beggars belief. Beggars belief that a massively failing company for years should be bailed out. Bail out? Why bail them out? Why not tax the shareholders the £220m the owners took out in 2020 and use that to fund the pension deficit for the employees who lost their jobs?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 11:50:32 GMT
Beggars belief that a massively failing company for years should be bailed out. Massively failing in the sense that they paid out £200 odd million in shareholder dividends. A quarter of a billion in losses and climbing
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 18, 2022 11:51:22 GMT
Massively failing in the sense that they paid out £200 odd million in shareholder dividends. A quarter of a billion in losses and climbing Which makes it ok to fire and rehire?
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Mar 18, 2022 11:52:01 GMT
You've edited as I was writing the response. Governments can set laws but they can't tell a company how to run its affairs and spend its money, let alone encourage it not to spend money They could. No payouts to shareholders if you have a black hole in your pension fund. There’s a good start. What about the ability to tax shareholders for dividends paid going back a few years if the company then has mass redundancies like this one? Discourage companies from doing it. Are you really that financially illiterate ? Your suggestion would mean vast majority of loss making businesses go to the wall as no profitable company would buy them, as a Stoke fan you'd think you'd understand how companies within a group can have vastly different financial results and whilst the parent company might support them with loans there comes a point they expect every company to fund itself or become profitable.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 11:58:52 GMT
They could. No payouts to shareholders if you have a black hole in your pension fund. There’s a good start. What about the ability to tax shareholders for dividends paid going back a few years if the company then has mass redundancies like this one? Discourage companies from doing it. Are you really that financially illiterate ? Your suggestion would mean vast majority of loss making businesses go to the wall as no profitable company would buy them, as a Stoke fan you'd think you'd understand how companies within a group can have vastly different financial results and whilst the parent company might support them with loans there comes a point they expect every company to fund itself or become profitable. Is very much the attitude. A failing company that has been around for years shouldn't be allowed to go to the wall. As for financially illiterate it's a bit ironic don't you think ☺️ I think you missed a very basic point but never mind. No one suggested every loss making company etc...
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Mar 18, 2022 12:10:59 GMT
Are you really that financially illiterate ? Your suggestion would mean vast majority of loss making businesses go to the wall as no profitable company would buy them, as a Stoke fan you'd think you'd understand how companies within a group can have vastly different financial results and whilst the parent company might support them with loans there comes a point they expect every company to fund itself or become profitable. Is very much the attitude. A failing company that has been around for years shouldn't be allowed to go to the wall. As for financially illiterate it's a bit ironic don't you think ☺️ I think you missed a very basic point but never mind. No one suggested every loss making company etc... If you mean the dividends to shareholders actually in the main will go to pension funds etc to pay other peoples pensions I did think about putting that in post would have got too long if its something else feel free to point it out. I've not looked at P&O accounts it could be this was always the plan but covid delayed it regardless of that, the last two years have been horrendous for pretty much anyone involved in travel, hospitality or freight P&O touch on all three if the business was struggling as badly as you say beforehand.
|
|
|
Post by farnborostokie63 on Mar 18, 2022 13:05:56 GMT
makes you wonder how safe these ferries will be with agency staff manning them, especially in an emergency.
|
|
|
Post by richie22 on Mar 18, 2022 13:06:49 GMT
People talking of ‘freight’ and re routing costing p&o as a regular user of the shipping line , the loss of tourist traffic has killed them stone dead. P&O was easily the biggest operator in town for holiday makers /day trippers & your club 18-30 (student market -kontiki holidays etc) this lot were good payers onboard, duty free and all that. The ships now are largely ran on the lorry driver, tourists are only just returning .. I’ve not seen a coach on one of these in months, the dfds Dover seaways that I’m currently sat on has near full decks of trucks and a single line of cars (approx 20) the freight has remained consistent throughout covid and up to now, the ferry’s that skirt around the uk have not taken that much away from the Dover -Calais route ( still the cheapest route to Europe ) the Eastern European operators will not pay for inflated crossings . Soon the tourists will return (Easter) and bring back some normality , just in time for the French to begin ‘strike’ season …. Still think p&o want fucking for this , can’t see how they will be at the mo. I am concerned that the crews will be made up of Eastern European and other nationalities from the Far East, the ones I’ve encountered on the stena North Sea boats struggle with the queens English. Should an emergency ever arise you need good language skills , sadly they were lacking
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Mar 18, 2022 13:12:42 GMT
makes you wonder how safe these ferries will be with agency staff manning them, especially in an emergency. I heard an interview last night that claimed the agency staff hired have never even seen the vessels they will be sailing, and the intention was to get the relevant sea licenses for them asap to resume sailing. An entire crew going from never setting foot on the ship to sailing it on the busiest waters in the world? Sounds proper safe...
|
|
|
Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 18, 2022 13:26:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Mar 18, 2022 13:32:25 GMT
There was a bill to protect workers from such fire and re-hire practices quite recently.
Tories chucked it out. Not good for their own business interests.
They knew about this mass sacking prior to the news breaking too.
No one's jobs are now safe after Brexit, any protection you had, has gone out the window.
|
|