|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2021 8:41:52 GMT
We lost on penalties, to a side on a 33-game unbeaten run. The Invincibles of International football, if you like.
We move on.
|
|
|
Post by peterpan1 on Jul 13, 2021 10:19:33 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. Precisely. You couldn't make it up. What is it with English football fans!!!!! Yes get him gone, he's won fuck all and will never have a better chance than the Euros at home of football. The players are good enough to win a trophy, his managerial nouse and tactics aren't unfortunately.
|
|
|
Post by peterpan1 on Jul 13, 2021 10:24:54 GMT
I feel for Southgate, because it’s probably the hardest job in world right now, with all the pressure to achieve something that hasn’t been achieved in 55 years. I’m desperately gutted that we didn’t win last night for him because no one deserves it more than him. I'm sure one look at his pay packet and he'll be right as rain.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jul 13, 2021 10:47:21 GMT
Tactical nous... you mean just chuck Grealish on and hope it comes off? Think that's what most people are saying on this thread... OK then.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jul 13, 2021 10:58:16 GMT
I have more issues with an England manager playing for penalties tbh. I’ve never liked Southgate and think he’s been far too negative all tournament but tonight was a masterclass in it . Have to agree, hard to criticise a final appearance but he’s an awful manager who’s rode his luck. Tonight needed incisive decision making and he got it wrong from the kick off. Mason Mount awful tournament, first name on team sheet. Only a year to suffer him till after World Cup . The biggest load of drivel ever posted.
|
|
|
Post by moon on Jul 13, 2021 11:01:07 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. There is no way he should be sacked, he deserves the chance to lead us at the world cup. He is not beyond criticism though, his negative tactics have cost us in the last two major tournaments and he needs to learn from his mistakes, if he continues to make the same mistakes then there isn't much point him continuing in the job after the world cup. That's not to say he needs to win the world cup, that is quite an ask, but next time we're holding onto a slender lead in a knockout game, with the majority of the game to go, he should should think about the previous occasions where sitting back has cost us the game.
Managers are often extremely stubborn and set in their ways though so I'll be surprised if he learns from his mistakes. If we had a squad of hard workers but with little ability and we were the massive underdogs then his tactics would make sense but that is clearly not the case, we have a squad of extremely talented young players with pace and ability, players who are capable of causing real problems for teams when given the opportunity to do so, hardly any of these players are used to the playing the type of backs to the wall performance that has been asked of them - at club level they play for the teams who try and dictate the play, let them play their natural game and they will flourish, if they fail playing their natural game that's okay, that's life, but they should be given the opportunity.
It'll be interesting to hear what the players have to say about this moment in their biographies when they retire, I know if I was one of Sancho / Grealish / Rashford / Calvert-Lewin I'd be thinking I could've made a difference in that game, I could've been lifting that trophy, but I was never given the opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Jul 13, 2021 11:06:17 GMT
My thoughts on Southgate are similar to thoughts I had about Pochettino at Spurs. Done an excellent job at taking the side from a mid to low point to on the cusp of achieving something and at a much higher level than we are used to, however with serious question marks over whether he can go that extra step as a coach and win major honours at the very highest level. So we find ourselves in a tricky spot. Do we criticise a man that has clearly and obviously done a very good job, blooded loads of youngsters, taken the country to a place they haven't been to in decades and has laid down some serious foundations for future managers? Or do we go down the very harsh road of pointing out similar issues and mistakes at the hard end of the last two tournaments, where opposing managers have changed their sides mid game and he had absolutely no answer? I think that’s a fair summary except for the “very harsh road” bit. There’s nothing harsh in the comment you made. I think it is harsh to be honest and the reason I think it is harsh is because of the road he's gone down with the young players. It's very difficult to create a squad that is capable of competing regularly at the highest level, and he's done it whilst blooding youngsters too, which makes it doubly hard. However, you can't get away from the Croatia game, where he didn't react to a change they made and it turned the game and ditto the Italy game on Sunday. I find it even harder to criticise him because I have to admit that I really like him and the way he conducts himself, which is a credit to himself and his family aswell as a credit to the country of where we're all from. If you could hand pick a man to represent our country you would struggle to find a better one.
|
|
|
Post by knype on Jul 13, 2021 11:09:12 GMT
I think that’s a fair summary except for the “very harsh road” bit. There’s nothing harsh in the comment you made. I think it is harsh to be honest and the reason I think it is harsh is because of the road he's gone down with the young players. It's very difficult to create a squad that is capable of competing regularly at the highest level, and he's done it whilst blooding youngsters too, which makes it doubly hard. However, you can't get away from the Croatia game, where he didn't react to a change they made and it turned the game and ditto the Italy game on Sunday. I find it even harder to criticise him because I have to admit that I really like him and the way he conducts himself, which is a credit to himself and his family aswell as a credit to the country of where we're all from. If you could hand pick a man to represent our country you would struggle to find a better one. Nice men very rarely win things..
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jul 13, 2021 11:16:05 GMT
I think it is harsh to be honest and the reason I think it is harsh is because of the road he's gone down with the young players. It's very difficult to create a squad that is capable of competing regularly at the highest level, and he's done it whilst blooding youngsters too, which makes it doubly hard. However, you can't get away from the Croatia game, where he didn't react to a change they made and it turned the game and ditto the Italy game on Sunday. I find it even harder to criticise him because I have to admit that I really like him and the way he conducts himself, which is a credit to himself and his family aswell as a credit to the country of where we're all from. If you could hand pick a man to represent our country you would struggle to find a better one. Nice men very rarely win things.. Who actually believes this rubbish. Come on ffs.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 13, 2021 12:00:33 GMT
Nice men very rarely win things.. Who actually believes this rubbish. Come on ffs. Sounds like something one of those clowns from The Apprentice would say.....
|
|
|
Post by bertiestan on Jul 13, 2021 13:01:39 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. You're wasting your time mate, there really are quite a few numptys on here these days. What for having a different opinion?
|
|
|
Post by peterpan1 on Jul 13, 2021 13:35:23 GMT
Tactical nous... you mean just chuck Grealish on and hope it comes off? Think that's what most people are saying on this thread... OK then. Asking a kid of 19 to take the most important spot kick for 50 odd years when he's never taken one in his professional career.... I think that tells you all you need to know. It now transpires even the more senior players were questioning this dumb ass decision.
|
|
|
Post by knype on Jul 13, 2021 13:56:59 GMT
Who actually believes this rubbish. Come on ffs. Sounds like something one of those clowns from The Apprentice would say..... Its a fact though, he maybe a nice man, he may say the right things, fact is that he has failed twice now at a big stage and has failed to learn from his mistakes...
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 13, 2021 14:37:20 GMT
Sounds like something one of those clowns from The Apprentice would say..... Its a fact though, he maybe a nice man, he may say the right things, fact is that he has failed twice now at a big stage and has failed to learn from his mistakes... That doesn't mean that nice guys rarely win anything though. Or that he's failed for that matter either.......
|
|
|
Post by jonnybravo on Jul 13, 2021 14:41:46 GMT
We lost on penalties, to a side on a 33-game unbeaten run. The Invincibles of International football, if you like. We move on. [/quote We lost not even trying to win the game,not bringing on attacking players till it was to late and it was like even at 1-1 he was defending the score and hopefully score off a set piece, it was a poor from England and the buck stops with the manager
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jul 13, 2021 15:38:09 GMT
Tactical nous... you mean just chuck Grealish on and hope it comes off? Think that's what most people are saying on this thread... OK then. Asking a kid of 19 to take the most important spot kick for 50 odd years when he's never taken one in his professional career.... I think that tells you all you need to know. It now transpires even the more senior players were questioning this dumb ass decision. Do you think he just wandered up to him after the game and asked him if he fancied it? If he's old enough to play in the most important game in 50 years he's old enough to take a penalty. Seasoned pros have missed in big games. Waddle, Pierce, Batty, Carragher etc etc etc.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jul 13, 2021 15:38:54 GMT
Sounds like something one of those clowns from The Apprentice would say..... Its a fact though, he maybe a nice man, he may say the right things, fact is that he has failed twice now at a big stage and has failed to learn from his mistakes... That may be a fact but that's not what you said.
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on Jul 13, 2021 15:41:51 GMT
Tactical nous... you mean just chuck Grealish on and hope it comes off? Think that's what most people are saying on this thread... OK then. Asking a kid of 19 to take the most important spot kick for 50 odd years when he's never taken one in his professional career.... I think that tells you all you need to know. It now transpires even the more senior players were questioning this dumb ass decision. Think Southgate has to come out and explain his decision to let him take the 5th penalty and his way of deciding it , because it doesn’t make any sense at all unless there was some underlying thinking which made the situation a whole lot worse
|
|
|
Post by ballboytoday on Jul 13, 2021 16:58:34 GMT
Sir Gareth!FFS. HE HAS WON FUCK ALL, strange management decision for penalty takers probably lost us the final, why do people think he should knighted? We will be Knighting managers for qualifying next!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2021 17:10:02 GMT
If Sam Allardyce hadn't been as bent as a five-bob note, we might never have got Southgate. We'd probably still be lumping it to Andy Carroll.
Give the bloke a break. He's done OK, and will learn from this experience.
Play the game again tomorrow, and it'd look totally different. World Cup, next up.
|
|
|
Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 13, 2021 17:16:56 GMT
Sounds like something one of those clowns from The Apprentice would say..... Its a fact though, he maybe a nice man, he may say the right things, fact is that he has failed twice now at a big stage and has failed to learn from his mistakes... First final in 55 years is not a failure, it’s an unbelievable achievement.
|
|
|
Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 13, 2021 17:19:22 GMT
Asking a kid of 19 to take the most important spot kick for 50 odd years when he's never taken one in his professional career.... I think that tells you all you need to know. It now transpires even the more senior players were questioning this dumb ass decision. Think Southgate has to come out and explain his decision to let him take the 5th penalty and his way of deciding it , because it doesn’t make any sense at all unless there was some underlying thinking which made the situation a whole lot worse Even if he didn’t take he might of had to take one later in the shootout anyway so does it really make a difference?
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on Jul 13, 2021 17:27:01 GMT
Think Southgate has to come out and explain his decision to let him take the 5th penalty and his way of deciding it , because it doesn’t make any sense at all unless there was some underlying thinking which made the situation a whole lot worse Even if he didn’t take he might of had to take one later in the shootout anyway so does it really make a difference? It’s all ifs and buts , but the fact is the lad shouldn’t have took the 5th penalty
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jul 13, 2021 21:39:11 GMT
Even if he didn’t take he might of had to take one later in the shootout anyway so does it really make a difference? It’s all ifs and buts , but the fact is the lad shouldn’t have took the 5th penalty Which one should have taken? The one he didn't miss?
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jul 13, 2021 22:28:18 GMT
If Sam Allardyce hadn't been as bent as a five-bob note, we might never have got Southgate. We'd probably still be lumping it to Andy Carroll. Give the bloke a break. He's done OK, and will learn from this experience. Play the game again tomorrow, and it'd look totally different. World Cup, next up. We spent a large part of the game with Pickford lumping it aimlessly.... I don't think Southgate will learn like the Croatia game he sat and watched and let the game get away from us only this time he had much stronger options to change the game. I'm sure he's a thoroughly nice guy but at the top level like Marrinez with Belgium he will come up short again and again.
|
|
|
Post by J-Roar on Jul 13, 2021 22:29:53 GMT
Asking a kid of 19 to take the most important spot kick for 50 odd years when he's never taken one in his professional career.... I think that tells you all you need to know. It now transpires even the more senior players were questioning this dumb ass decision. Do you think he just wandered up to him after the game and asked him if he fancied it? If he's old enough to play in the most important game in 50 years he's old enough to take a penalty. Seasoned pros have missed in big games. Waddle, Pierce, Batty, Carragher etc etc etc. I thought he was terrible all game. Based on how poorly he played I wouldn't have given him the 5th pen. I'd have hooked him early in extra time
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jul 13, 2021 22:57:11 GMT
Do you think he just wandered up to him after the game and asked him if he fancied it? If he's old enough to play in the most important game in 50 years he's old enough to take a penalty. Seasoned pros have missed in big games. Waddle, Pierce, Batty, Carragher etc etc etc. I thought he was terrible all game. Based on how poorly he played I wouldn't have given him the 5th pen. I'd have hooked him early in extra time I would have well, he was poor. I believe they take a data driven approach to penalties, something that has served them well in the two previous shoot outs that they won. People are questioning Southgate for being indecisive when the facts are that he's been the exact opposite all tournament.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Jul 13, 2021 23:03:16 GMT
Suggestion for the next World Cup.
If it gets to penalties each team has to put forward 5 aging, balding, overweight and out of condition fans, chosen by ballot, to represent their country.
It would be great fun and let's face it they couldn't do any worse than the 2 from 5 Southgate's inept mob managed even if they tried.
|
|
|
Post by bertiestan on Jul 14, 2021 1:33:28 GMT
It turns out Rashford is having a shoulder op n won't be fit til Oct...surely he was injured during the euros n must have known about it before... should never have been in the squad imo.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 1:48:20 GMT
It turns out Rashford is having a shoulder op n won't be fit til Oct...surely he was injured during the euros n must have known about it before... should never have been in the squad imo. Needed the surgery for the last season i think, been really poor for United for some time as a result.
|
|