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Post by franklin on Jul 11, 2021 23:19:07 GMT
Having these players with Southgate is a waste. A Low or Mancini in charge and we win something. True we need a courageous manager and coaches who inspire and drive our team on. We have the players they lack belief and that's down to Gareth and his team.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 11, 2021 23:21:24 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised.
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Post by starkiller on Jul 11, 2021 23:22:27 GMT
The media covering for Southgate is misplaced.
If we are serious about going to the next level, now is the time to replace him. Not rewarding honourable failure.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 11, 2021 23:29:02 GMT
Southgate has lost to every top class side he's come up against
Nice bloke but not a winner
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Post by proudstokie on Jul 11, 2021 23:32:37 GMT
It’s on Southgate tonight and for me he didn’t learn from Croatia. Yes he’s got the nation on side and he’s brought on some great young players but we took an early lead and didn’t know what to do with it, just like 2018.
Everybody could see that we needed somebody to carry the ball or an outlet to stop them committing men forward. If Italy sit back there is more space in midfield, more opportunity to keep the ball. If Italy can commit men, a goal doesn’t even have to be a well crafted opportunity, enough men forward and a ricochet will do as it did tonight.
He brought on two subs for pens that didn’t score and gave the most pressurised English pen in history to a 19 year old. That’s just bad man management.
Our run to the final was extremely fortunate with a predominantly home advantage.
Pep or Jurgen win that tournament at a canter with that squad!!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 11, 2021 23:32:45 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised. It’s almost like he’s a bit of a shit football manager who has an array of attacking talent but refuses to use it.
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Post by proudstokie on Jul 11, 2021 23:41:00 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised. Imagine being gifted a table at the Ritz and being served Beans on Toast!!
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 11, 2021 23:41:39 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised. He should be criticised. The first good teams he has come up against in the last 2 tournaments have both beaten us. He had a good hand tonight and played it badly.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 11, 2021 23:47:24 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised. He should be criticised. The first good teams he has come up against in the last 2 tournaments have both beaten us. He had a good hand tonight and played it badly. Aren't Germany good? Or Denmark? Or Croatia? Or are they only good when it suits agendas and shit once England beat them...? Not really sure what some people expect to be honest. Was always going to be an incredibly tough final against a side who are unbeaten in 30+ games. Went down to a coin toss.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 11, 2021 23:49:59 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised. Imagine being gifted a table at the Ritz and being served Beans on Toast!! Did you expect us to win the tournament with ease then at the start of it?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 11, 2021 23:55:02 GMT
He should be criticised. The first good teams he has come up against in the last 2 tournaments have both beaten us. He had a good hand tonight and played it badly. Aren't Germany good? Or Denmark? Or Croatia? Or are they only good when it suits agendas and shit once England beat them...? Not really sure what some people expect to be honest. Was always going to be an incredibly tough final against a side who are unbeaten in 30+ games. Went down to a coin toss. Germany are poor and need a massive rebuild. Croatia are old and past it. Denmark are decent but it should have always been an easy win.
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 11, 2021 23:56:10 GMT
He’s done very well generally, but I thought right from the start that a 343 tonight was the wrong way to go, and for the life of me I don’t see what that lad Mount brings to the team.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 11, 2021 23:57:02 GMT
Aren't Germany good? Or Denmark? Or Croatia? Or are they only good when it suits agendas and shit once England beat them...? Not really sure what some people expect to be honest. Was always going to be an incredibly tough final against a side who are unbeaten in 30+ games. Went down to a coin toss. Germany are poor and need a massive rebuild. Croatia are old and past it. Denmark are decent but it should have always been an easy win. Who's good then?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 11, 2021 23:58:41 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 11, 2021 23:59:32 GMT
He should be criticised. The first good teams he has come up against in the last 2 tournaments have both beaten us. He had a good hand tonight and played it badly. Aren't Germany good? Or Denmark? Or Croatia? Or are they only good when it suits agendas and shit once England beat them...? Not really sure what some people expect to be honest. Was always going to be an incredibly tough final against a side who are unbeaten in 30+ games. Went down to a coin toss. No. Germany and Croatia aren't that good at the moment. German manager has gone on too long and Croatia have an ageing team at the end of a cycle. Denmark are no great shakes but were riding the wave of emotion. I wasnt expecting it to be easy tonight but to go out with a whimper was disappointing and was down in part to the tactics the manager deployed.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 0:00:22 GMT
Germany are poor and need a massive rebuild. Croatia are old and past it. Denmark are decent but it should have always been an easy win. Who's good then? Italy. We are. France Belgium The best 4 teams in the tournament imo. The French another victim of terrible management in bringing Benzema back and the drama around him.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 12, 2021 0:02:47 GMT
Italy. We are. France Belgium The best 4 teams in the tournament imo. The French another victim of terrible management in bringing Benzema back and the drama around him. Exactly. We are. Let's remind ourselves that 5 years ago in this very tournament we lost to Iceland in one of the worst performances in the nation's history. Southgate has worked wonders.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 12, 2021 0:06:18 GMT
Italy. We are. France Belgium The best 4 teams in the tournament imo. The French another victim of terrible management in bringing Benzema back and the drama around him. Exactly. We are. Let's remind ourselves that 5 years ago in this very tournament we lost to Iceland in one of the worst performances in the nation's history. Southgate has worked wonders. Wonders my arse. Greece achieved wonders. As did Denmark in 92
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Post by proudstokie on Jul 12, 2021 0:16:16 GMT
Imagine being gifted a table at the Ritz and being served Beans on Toast!! Did you expect us to win the tournament with ease then at the start of it? Actually yes I did, given the talent that we have to hand, we have premier league winners, La Liga winners, champions league winners and runners up, Golden boot winners, we have a wealth of riches that not many countries can compete with but we don’t have the mentality! We play as underdogs, happy to be there, we lack arrogance and conviction. We lack belief! We lack the tactics and the nouse! We’ve done well but it’s not good enough! It’s the same old hard luck story and it’s about time somebody with some bollocks changes it!! How can the team be brave if the manager is not! Southgate to date is not the right man!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 0:31:49 GMT
Italy. We are. France Belgium The best 4 teams in the tournament imo. The French another victim of terrible management in bringing Benzema back and the drama around him. Exactly. We are. Let's remind ourselves that 5 years ago in this very tournament we lost to Iceland in one of the worst performances in the nation's history. Southgate has worked wonders. Not really. The FA has invested massively to make this happen. Southgate has a squad of very good footballers and hasn’t used them correctly imo. He’s held them back on the pitch with his negativity. The one thing this squad misses is the freedom to play and that’s from the manager.
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Post by riproaringagain on Jul 12, 2021 1:16:18 GMT
He’s the emperors new clothes if football and way out of his depth manicini sorted it
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2021 1:20:17 GMT
Aren't Germany good? Or Denmark? Or Croatia? Or are they only good when it suits agendas and shit once England beat them...? Not really sure what some people expect to be honest. Was always going to be an incredibly tough final against a side who are unbeaten in 30+ games. Went down to a coin toss. Germany are poor and need a massive rebuild. Croatia are old and past it. Denmark are decent but it should have always been an easy win. When did we play Croatia🤔
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 2:12:02 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised. True but say in Italy or Germany it's not seen as an achievement and welcomed home like winners. Greece and Denmark have won the Euros, Czechs also. A lot of great work went down the drain tonight in a few minutes with some bizarre subs and he'll go down as another great nearly man when it was there for him. Shame as a likeable character but a superior manager got the better of him.
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Post by Veritas on Jul 12, 2021 4:56:19 GMT
He’s the emperors new clothes if football and way out of his depth manicini sorted it He came up short last night but Emperor's new clothes? Really! A semi and a final in consecutive tournaments, one may be luck but come on talk sense.
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Post by retrostoke on Jul 12, 2021 5:19:39 GMT
Kane played no part from half time. He should have been off and one of the young lads on running at the Italian central defence. Have them exposed and committing fouls. Foden would have been perfect but injured so Rashford or Sancho. Pace against their old men was the answer. Kane was food and drink to them
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 5:32:37 GMT
He definitely got it wrong in the final. But up to that point you couldn't really criticise him.
I'd definitely keep him in place for the WC. Build the team around Sancho, Bellingham, Foden and Grealish now and be less cautious.
Best outcome, aside from reaching the final, was the new found solidity of the defence when we all thought that would be the weak spot. Ironic isn't it, that we didn't think the attack would let us down but in the final we had very little going forward and that is down to Southgate.
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Jul 12, 2021 5:42:58 GMT
Exactly. We are. Let's remind ourselves that 5 years ago in this very tournament we lost to Iceland in one of the worst performances in the nation's history. Southgate has worked wonders. Not really. The FA has invested massively to make this happen. Southgate has a squad of very good footballers and hasn’t used them correctly imo. He’s held them back on the pitch with his negativity. The one thing this squad misses is the freedom to play and that’s from the manager. He’s a failed club manager who got a job cause he’s a nice guy. We have a fantastic young squad that should have been allowed to go for it. I’m 50 and this is my first final & I’m fucking pissed off we didn’t take it to that aging defence.
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Post by moon on Jul 12, 2021 5:48:13 GMT
Spot on. The worst thing about it for me is that nobody in that England squad is actually used to playing a backs to the wall approach regularly, we have some of the best attackers in the world and even the centre backs are very forward thinking. Had we attacked Italy I don’t think they would’ve been able to handle us, given their record we were always likely to concede against them, you can’t sit back for 88 minutes against a team of that quality in the biggest match of their lives. If we played with a positive attitude I think we’d have beaten them by two goals in normal time, in the end we got what we deserved. We played to Italy’s strengths instead of playing to our own. I don’t blame the players, they did exactly what was asked of them, there was no outlet in the second half though and the ball kept coming straight back, and by the time he did change it we had lost all momentum. I like Southgate but he is not the right manager for this group of players, Foden, Sancho and Grealish were wasted in this tournament. Rashford and Calvert-Lewin should’ve been used earlier on in the group stages even if just for 20-30 minutes, Mancini made full use of his squad and wasn’t afraid to take his star players off, Southgate needs to take a long hard look at his tactics and usage of the whole squad. He deserves the chance to lead us at the World Cup but we risk wasting the next golden generation if we stick with him too long, the squad we have now can compete at the highest level and we need a manager who can too, maybe Southgate can become that but he needs to learn very quickly.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 12, 2021 6:04:12 GMT
But, and I really like Southgate, it was kind of his fault. He’s got to learn from it now and take us one step further next year. We don’t need penalties, we can beat Italy in 90 mins next time. When a football team lose it's always the managers fault, it goes with the territory. Personally I think he got his starting formation wrong and backed himself into a corner. My comment was more based on the vitriol that he is now facing after being the first England manager in most of our lifetimes to get us to a major final. Vitriol is a strong word to use for the post you quoted against though, it’s critical and the last comment about “suffering him for another year” is harsh - but is it vitriolic?
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Jul 12, 2021 6:10:27 GMT
Spot on. The worst thing about it for me is that nobody in that England squad is actually used to playing a backs to the wall approach regularly, we have some of the best attackers in the world and even the centre backs are very forward thinking. Had we attacked Italy I don’t think they would’ve been able to handle us, given their record we were always likely to concede against them, you can’t sit back for 88 minutes against a team of that quality in the biggest match of their lives. If we played with a positive attitude I think we’d have beaten them by two goals in normal time, in the end we got what we deserved. We played to Italy’s strengths instead of playing to our own. I don’t blame the players, they did exactly what was asked of them, there was no outlet in the second half though and the ball kept coming straight back, and by the time he did change it we had lost all momentum. I like Southgate but he is not the right manager for this group of players, Foden, Sancho and Grealish were wasted in this tournament. Rashford and Calvert-Lewin should’ve been used earlier on in the group stages even if just for 20-30 minutes, Mancini made full use of his squad and wasn’t afraid to take his star players off, Southgate needs to take a long hard look at his tactics and usage of the whole squad. He deserves the chance to lead us at the World Cup but we risk wasting the next golden generation if we stick with him too long, the squad we have now can compete at the highest level and we need a manager who can too, maybe Southgate can become that but he needs to learn very quickly. National managers should be there on merit, they should have accomplishments behind them. Southgate is a nice guy but has done fuck all to warrant consideration for this job. Mancini is in a different spectrum. It’s like me putting myself up for chancellor of the exchequer without having played suffocation games with fruit. If we had the right manager the World Cup could be very interesting. Not many teams have the attacking depth that we have and after watching the Copa America last night there is nothing to fear.
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