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Post by BraveSirRobin on Jul 12, 2021 6:54:04 GMT
Germany are poor and need a massive rebuild. Croatia are old and past it. Denmark are decent but it should have always been an easy win. When did we play Croatia🤔 Am I missing something?
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 12, 2021 6:57:21 GMT
Germany are poor and need a massive rebuild. Croatia are old and past it. Denmark are decent but it should have always been an easy win. When did we play Croatia🤔 13th June
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Post by Scrotnig on Jul 12, 2021 7:21:13 GMT
Imagine taking an England team to a semi-final of a World Cup and then a final of a European Championships and still getting criticised. I think actual sensible 'criticism' is valid for the final because it's obvious he got the game management totally wrong this time. Does not detract from the enormous achievement in getting there.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 12, 2021 7:23:42 GMT
The media covering for Southgate is misplaced. If we are serious about going to the next level, now is the time to replace him. Not rewarding honourable failure. Getting to the final is failure ?
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Post by heworksardtho on Jul 12, 2021 7:24:15 GMT
No one remembers runners up
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 7:25:03 GMT
4th, 3rd, 2nd is failure apparently...
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Post by Scrotnig on Jul 12, 2021 7:25:36 GMT
Makes me laugh this. He was the nation's hero a few hours ago.
He's absolutely still the man for the job, for me. He deserves the highest praise for getting us to the final, but he mismanaged the final itself. Crushingly disappointing but this has been a very successful tournament for us.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 7:32:01 GMT
Makes me laugh this. He was the nation's hero a few hours ago. He's absolutely still the man for the job, for me. He deserves the highest praise for getting us to the final, but he mismanaged the final itself. Crushingly disappointing but this has been a very successful tournament for us. That's it in a nutshell. Even Saint Pep of Guardiola can fuck up a final. Not saying Southgate is remotely on a par, but just shows it can go wrong for the best too.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2021 7:32:41 GMT
This game was the opportunity for Southgate to demonstrate all his managerial credentials - to show what he has learned from his team and selections as the tournament progressed as well as seeing what worked against his opponents.
Sadly, he got every call completely wrong.
From his original team selection. His use of substitutes - both timing and people. And that bizarre selection of penalty takers.
His inherent caution combined with his inexperience and incompetence shone through.
He has been blessed with outstanding opportunities in the last two tournaments and has failed both times when he eventually came up against top quality opposition.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 7:41:18 GMT
After a few hours kip I've tried several times to give my praise but just couldn't I take no consolation in defeat I don't do "plucky loser" we played a game of football and lost that's the top and bottom of it. Second is nowhere.....
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Post by Gods on Jul 12, 2021 7:45:04 GMT
I don't know what happened last night but I really did not see that coming, it was like Italy had our balls in a tight vice from the 10th to the 80th minute. And the facts bear it out. Italy had 66% possession and 19 shots. England had 34% and 6 shots. They had 6 on target we had 2. If we had commentators commenting on say a Man City v Fulham match with these statistics everyone would say that despite an early goal in the first 2 mins there could only be one winner. And then it got to penalties and we score 2 out of 5. Ffs I'd take odds to beat that with a few of my old pals and I'm a middle aged man with a desk job who hasn't played football for 10 years
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Post by Scrotnig on Jul 12, 2021 7:47:12 GMT
It's also worth noting...it's not like we got thrashed by Italy. For all their alleged superiority, they still couldn't beat us in open play. It's the penalties I am stunned by. What was going on there? At least it puts Southgate's own penalty nightmare firmly in the shade. Maybe that was the plan!
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Post by Scrotnig on Jul 12, 2021 7:49:09 GMT
After a few hours kip I've tried several times to give my praise but just couldn't I take no consolation in defeat I don't do "plucky loser" we played a game of football and lost that's the top and bottom of it. Second is nowhere..... Don't get me wrong, I'm no plucky loser, last night was a disaster. Just think in the cold light of day we need to look at the bigger picture.
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Post by knype on Jul 12, 2021 7:54:28 GMT
4th, 3rd, 2nd is failure apparently... Anything other than winning it,is failure.
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Post by heworksardtho on Jul 12, 2021 8:05:50 GMT
It's also worth noting...it's not like we got thrashed by Italy. For all their alleged superiority, they still couldn't beat us in open play. It's the penalties I am stunned by. What was going on there? At least it puts Southgate's own penalty nightmare firmly in the shade. Maybe that was the plan! He fucked up in 96 and again last night , why give a 19 yr old lad the 5th penalty when you have battled hardened prem players on the pitch like sterling, grealish , Walker , Shaw etc , I don’t understand his way of thinking
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 8:06:04 GMT
After a few hours kip I've tried several times to give my praise but just couldn't I take no consolation in defeat I don't do "plucky loser" we played a game of football and lost that's the top and bottom of it. Second is nowhere..... Don't get me wrong, I'm no plucky loser, last night was a disaster. Just think in the cold light of day we need to look at the bigger picture. But that's the point this tournament is over and we lost. Yes we didn't lose at the group stage but still lost I'm pretty sure Germany, Spain, France etc don't celebrate losing quite like us. You can praise individuals or moments, great goals great saves etc but in the record books Italy won. I might be in the minority but we need to sack off this mentality of "great losers" it's nothing. Italy kicked, pulled, fouled and ran themselves into the ground and won we wilted and walked into defeat and had no answer to any of it.
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Post by moon on Jul 12, 2021 8:10:02 GMT
Makes me laugh this. He was the nation's hero a few hours ago. He's absolutely still the man for the job, for me. He deserves the highest praise for getting us to the final, but he mismanaged the final itself. Crushingly disappointing but this has been a very successful tournament for us. He deserves the plaudits for getting us there but he keeps making the same mistakes, we don't have the right players for a backs to the wall performance - we do okay at it but it's not playing to our strengths, and on this occasion we needed to play to our strengths and expose Italy at the back but we failed to do that after the first 10 minutes. It was the same against Croatia in the world cup semi final and I think it'll be the same in the next world cup when we come up against a strong team, with this group of players our best option is to attack, score a 2nd last night and Italy we'd have broken Italy, instead we sat back and invited pressure for 80 minutes of the match.
Throughout the tournament he failed to utilise his squad and I can't see why it would be any different next time, most other teams made regular changes and kept it fresh. I respect that he's willing to pick players based on merit rather than which club they are contracted to and he's put together a great team, he needs to work on his tactics and game management though. He needed to give more game time to Foden, Sancho, Grealish, Rashford, and maybe Calvert-Lewin too, and it needs to be early in the tournament to ease them in. Mancini knew his preferred front 3 right throughout the tournament but he didn't rely on only Chiesa, Immobile and Insigne even if the other options were not as good, sometimes refreshing the forward line is the better option so you can keep up the intensity even if it means taking your star players off.
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Post by ross1396 on Jul 12, 2021 8:12:10 GMT
You've quoted him, with his name in it and still spelt his name wrong....impressive.
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Post by ross1396 on Jul 12, 2021 8:16:40 GMT
4th, 3rd, 2nd is failure apparently... Yes it's 1st 2nd and 3rd loser...Still a loser
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Post by heworksardtho on Jul 12, 2021 8:20:08 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm no plucky loser, last night was a disaster. Just think in the cold light of day we need to look at the bigger picture. But that's the point this tournament is over and we lost. Yes we didn't lose at the group stage but still lost I'm pretty sure Germany, Spain, France etc don't celebrate losing quite like us. You can praise individuals or moments, great goals great saves etc but in the record books Italy won. I might be in the minority but we need to sack off this mentality of "great losers" it's nothing. Italy kicked, pulled, fouled and ran themselves into the ground and won we wilted and walked into defeat and had no answer to any of it. Bang on , we are always the bridesmaid and never the bride
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jul 12, 2021 8:26:54 GMT
Just shows defensive football doesn’t get results over a period of games 🤦♂️ There was absolutely no need to try to shut that game down but that’s what football managers tend to do. We’ve seen it so many times how teams try to sit on a slender lead when there’s ages left in the game. They take all the momentum out of the side and can’t get it going again when they concede. Sitting back and trying to protect a 1 goal lead should be reserved for the last few minutes of a game.
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Post by peterpan1 on Jul 12, 2021 8:29:56 GMT
I really don't get all this fawning over Southgate. He bottled it in the second half and has passed up the best opportunity for England to win a major trophy for probably a generation. Ffs.... It was raining, we were at home and the massive crowd were doing their part and still we can't take penalties!
He's had two tournaments now WC and Euro's blown em both. If people think 2nd best is good enough, they need a reality check. Get the perennial loser gone.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2021 8:54:37 GMT
Shame the shithouse daren't say it when he's in front of the cameras really. Just heard Teddy Sheringham saying something similar on Talk Sport. That we needed players on the park who could retain possession and pass the ball forward to begin to offer some forward threat and ask questions of Italy’s ageing centre backs. Neither of our two regulation substitutions helped in that regard. One of them, Henderson, made the situation worse. Which is not surprising to anyone who has watched Henderson play. We actually had the perfect player on the bench to replace Rice - Bellingham.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 8:55:36 GMT
Shame the shithouse daren't say it when he's in front of the cameras really. Just heard Teddy Sheringham saying something similar on Talk Sport. That we needed players on the park who could retain possession and pass the ball forward to begin to offer some forward threat and ask questions of Italy’s ageing centre backs. Neither of our two regulation substitutions helped in that regard. One of them, Henderson, made the situation worse. Which is not surprising to anyone who has watched Henderson play. We actually had the perfect player on the bench to replace Rice - Bellingham. From this point on we absolutely have to build the team around Bellingham.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 9:27:19 GMT
Just heard Teddy Sheringham saying something similar on Talk Sport. That we needed players on the park who could retain possession and pass the ball forward to begin to offer some forward threat and ask questions of Italy’s ageing centre backs. Neither of our two regulation substitutions helped in that regard. One of them, Henderson, made the situation worse. Which is not surprising to anyone who has watched Henderson play. We actually had the perfect player on the bench to replace Rice - Bellingham. From this point on we absolutely have to build the team around Bellingham. Bellingham, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, Sterling, all of them, at various times, should be featuring routinely for the England side to provide a varied but consistently excellent attacking threat, with a solid defensive midfield (which Rice and Philips did well) in front of a solid defence (again Stones, Maguire, Walker and Shaw all did well). Then give them licence to attack when it's needed like it was last night. That was the only way we were going to win that game. To be fair to Southgate, his approach had been faultless up to the final, you can't knock him for that, but he needs to know when to switch things up, which he singularly failed with last night, unlike Mancini.
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Post by redstriper on Jul 12, 2021 9:33:19 GMT
Unfortunately the portents for this defeat were glaringly obvious when we played Scotland. That was the match where he had the opportunity to find out who our tournament talismen were going to be. We needed just two out of Mount, sterling, grealish, sancho, saka, foden, bellingham and rashford to step up and be the go-to dangermen we played through to create chances.
Sterling had a good tournament, but the italians nullified him with comparative ease as they didn't have much else to worry about. That was because of the others only Mount and Saka were given enough game time to have the opportunity to shine. The others were bit part players given less game time than Henderson.
Somebody needed to get Southgate to understand the tournament allowed FIVE subs in normal time, opportunity missed. Mount played an incomprehensible amount of minutes to limited effect.
He is a nice guy, eloquent, intelligent and a good ambassador for the country - i don't want him replaced, but he needs to break out of his defenders mindset from this morning onwards.
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2021 10:15:42 GMT
When did we play Croatia🤔 13th June Yeah we did aswell😂
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 12, 2021 10:19:22 GMT
Haha, brilliant - this tickled me
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 12, 2021 10:20:45 GMT
Shame the shithouse daren't say it when he's in front of the cameras really. Just heard Teddy Sheringham saying something similar on Talk Sport. That we needed players on the park who could retain possession and pass the ball forward to begin to offer some forward threat and ask questions of Italy’s ageing centre backs. Neither of our two regulation substitutions helped in that regard. One of them, Henderson, made the situation worse. Which is not surprising to anyone who has watched Henderson play. We actually had the perfect player on the bench to replace Rice - Bellingham. Bang on Henderson shouldn’t have been anywhere near the squad. Only there because of who he plays for. Bellingham was immense for Dortmund last season and is a far better player even at 17.
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2021 10:21:48 GMT
Haha, brilliant - this tickled me I was thinking I swear it was the Czech republic 😂 but we played them aswell😂
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