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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 12, 2021 10:28:08 GMT
From this point on we absolutely have to build the team around Bellingham. Bellingham, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, Sterling, all of them, at various times, should be featuring routinely for the England side to provide a varied but consistently excellent attacking threat, with a solid defensive midfield (which Rice and Philips did well) in front of a solid defence (again Stones, Maguire, Walker and Shaw all did well). Then give them licence to attack when it's needed like it was last night. That was the only way we were going to win that game. To be fair to Southgate, his approach had been faultless up to the final, you can't knock him for that, but he needs to know when to switch things up, which he singularly failed with last night, unlike Mancini. Wasn't it all so predictable though? We'll beat anyone who is no-one until we go out to the first decent side we come up against (Iceland excepted) Let's face it - had we been in the other half of the draw we would not gave reached the final - we got there by beating obviously lesser sides and a creaking Germany. Southgate is an absolute credit to English foitball in every respect except tactics and game management. Unfortunately that's what wins tournaments however good a squad you have. Mancini would walk in to almost any top club job. I doubt Gareth would get a top 10 Premier League job - in fact I'm not that sure I'd be overly ecstatic about him taking over at Stoke (unless he replaced Scholes). However if he were to leave his England post we'd be back to the petennial discussion of 'where are all the top English managers?"
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Post by peterpan1 on Jul 12, 2021 10:33:11 GMT
Just heard Teddy Sheringham saying something similar on Talk Sport. That we needed players on the park who could retain possession and pass the ball forward to begin to offer some forward threat and ask questions of Italy’s ageing centre backs. Neither of our two regulation substitutions helped in that regard. One of them, Henderson, made the situation worse. Which is not surprising to anyone who has watched Henderson play. We actually had the perfect player on the bench to replace Rice - Bellingham. Bang on Henderson shouldn’t have been anywhere near the squad. Only there because of who he plays for. Bellingham was immense for Dortmund last season and is a far better player even at 17. I would have had James Ward-Prowse in the squad ahead of Henderson.
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Post by skeelsy on Jul 12, 2021 10:36:01 GMT
Southgate had an abundance of exciting young attacking players available yet we only managed to score a paltry 7 goals in 6 HOME games. If we are to progress we need to appoint a manager with a more positive approach. The praise for Southgate in the media sticks in the craw and he needs to be replaced, although there is absolutely no chance of this actually happening.
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Post by spoton on Jul 12, 2021 17:15:23 GMT
]My view last nights English manager decision making was probably the worst ive seen in the last 10 years , asking any player whatever their age to come on the pitch in the last minute knowing that their job is to score from a penalty was horrendous,the pressure the manager put on the subs was complete stupidity, Southgate should have known better, again very poor management[/quote]
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Post by cdf on Jul 12, 2021 17:48:28 GMT
Southgate had an abundance of exciting young attacking players available yet we only managed to score a paltry 7 goals in 6 HOME games. If we are to progress we need to appoint a manager with a more positive approach. The praise for Southgate in the media sticks in the craw and he needs to be replaced, although there is absolutely no chance of this actually happening. Any suggestions on you would like to see bring the England manager?
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Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 12, 2021 18:08:57 GMT
Southgate had an abundance of exciting young attacking players available yet we only managed to score a paltry 7 goals in 6 HOME games. If we are to progress we need to appoint a manager with a more positive approach. The praise for Southgate in the media sticks in the craw and he needs to be replaced, although there is absolutely no chance of this actually happening. No, because he lead us to our first final in since 66 Why the fuck would you replace him
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Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 12, 2021 18:09:52 GMT
]My view last nights English manager decision making was probably the worst ive seen in the last 10 years , asking any player whatever their age to come on the pitch in the last minute knowing that their job is to score from a penalty was horrendous,the pressure the manager put on the subs was complete stupidity, Southgate should have known better, again very poor management [/quote] Other managers have done it and it worked?
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 12, 2021 19:08:46 GMT
Southgate had an abundance of exciting young attacking players available yet we only managed to score a paltry 7 goals in 6 HOME games. If we are to progress we need to appoint a manager with a more positive approach. The praise for Southgate in the media sticks in the craw and he needs to be replaced, although there is absolutely no chance of this actually happening. Scored 4 in the other one and conceded just 2 goals in 9 games, including the warm-up games, losing 0. Can spin it however way you like though... You don't go any further the more goals you score, in the same way you don't get any more points in the league. Not sure what some England fans expect. It's like the goalposts move as well during the tournament in terms of expectations. Although disappointing, I'd have snapped your hand off at the start of the tournament if you told me we would go unbeaten, beat the Germans, Croats and Danes before giving me a penalty shoot out to win the thing. Fine margins.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 12, 2021 19:21:37 GMT
Get Rodgers in
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 12, 2021 19:33:12 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties...
In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group.
In 2008 we didn't even qualify.
We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage)
We lost to fucking Iceland last time.
But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 12, 2021 21:32:54 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. Precisely. You couldn't make it up. What is it with English football fans!!!!!
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Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 12, 2021 21:42:28 GMT
I feel for Southgate, because it’s probably the hardest job in world right now, with all the pressure to achieve something that hasn’t been achieved in 55 years.
I’m desperately gutted that we didn’t win last night for him because no one deserves it more than him.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 12, 2021 21:53:51 GMT
]My view last nights English manager decision making was probably the worst ive seen in the last 10 years , asking any player whatever their age to come on the pitch in the last minute knowing that their job is to score from a penalty was horrendous,the pressure the manager put on the subs was complete stupidity, Southgate should have known better, again very poor management [/quote] You can argue that it's a bad decision to ask anyone to take a penalty if they miss it. If Kyle Walker would have missed a penalty and that would have cost us, folk would be complaining we should have let the young ones take them because they are fearless. Italy's best penalty taker missed his and that nearly cost them the Cup, I suppose that was bad management too!
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Post by dirtclod on Jul 12, 2021 21:54:19 GMT
I was confused regarding the lack of substitutions....but...
Once expectations exceed common sense and you decide to fire Southgate? Send him over here, he can coach the US Team. We need that kind of "failure" for our program.
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 12, 2021 22:03:09 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. Plus he led us to a World Cup semifinal in his first tournament managing his Country.. and as if that isn't enough he's an intelligent, thoughtful manager with a strong instinct towards social inclusion and decency who is leading a squad of what appear to be pretty thoughtful players. He gets my support all day long!!
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2021 22:45:22 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. Plus he led us to a World Cup semifinal in his first tournament managing his Country.. and as if that isn't enough he's an intelligent, thoughtful manager with a strong instinct towards social inclusion and decency who is leading a squad of what appear to be pretty thoughtful players. He gets my support all day long!! So what he lacks in tactical nouse he makes up for for being nice?
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Post by skip on Jul 12, 2021 22:53:11 GMT
Plus he led us to a World Cup semifinal in his first tournament managing his Country.. and as if that isn't enough he's an intelligent, thoughtful manager with a strong instinct towards social inclusion and decency who is leading a squad of what appear to be pretty thoughtful players. He gets my support all day long!! So what he lacks in tactical nouse he makes up for for being nice? Right now I'll take a nice manager who has the respect of the whole squad over a bastard hell bent on winning (who will probably come no closer to winning because he's a hard bastard). The best players in England who qualify to play for England clearly respect him. You can't ask for much more than that.
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2021 22:58:22 GMT
So what he lacks in tactical nouse he makes up for for being nice? Right now I'll take a nice manager who has the respect of the whole squad over a bastard hell bent on winning (who will probably come no closer to winning because he's a hard bastard). The best players in England who qualify to play for England clearly respect him. You can't ask for much more than that. Yeah cos he's nice😂 I'd rather win something mate.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 12, 2021 23:05:01 GMT
So what he lacks in tactical nouse he makes up for for being nice? Right now I'll take a nice manager who has the respect of the whole squad over a bastard hell bent on winning (who will probably come no closer to winning because he's a hard bastard). The best players in England who qualify to play for England clearly respect him. You can't ask for much more than that. Capello was a bastard hell bent on winning, didn't want to be nice, had international status and a brilliant track record. That went well!
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Post by damagedswan on Jul 12, 2021 23:11:49 GMT
Plus he led us to a World Cup semifinal in his first tournament managing his Country.. and as if that isn't enough he's an intelligent, thoughtful manager with a strong instinct towards social inclusion and decency who is leading a squad of what appear to be pretty thoughtful players. He gets my support all day long!! So what he lacks in tactical nouse he makes up for for being nice? Southgate's tactical set-up and game management were broadly good throughout the tournament. In the final, like in the Croatia semi, he failed to adapt his initial plan (which essentially worked for 45 minutes) quickly enough, but he isn't some kind of tactical no-hoper compared to other international managers.
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 12, 2021 23:20:58 GMT
Plus he led us to a World Cup semifinal in his first tournament managing his Country.. and as if that isn't enough he's an intelligent, thoughtful manager with a strong instinct towards social inclusion and decency who is leading a squad of what appear to be pretty thoughtful players. He gets my support all day long!! So what he lacks in tactical nouse he makes up for for being nice? Seems to me that his intelligence and decency may be part of what has led him to be hands down the most successful England manager in decades.
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Post by skip on Jul 12, 2021 23:24:35 GMT
Right now I'll take a nice manager who has the respect of the whole squad over a bastard hell bent on winning (who will probably come no closer to winning because he's a hard bastard). The best players in England who qualify to play for England clearly respect him. You can't ask for much more than that. Yeah cos he's nice😂 I'd rather win something mate. Why do you think that being nice is incompatible with sporting success? Is there a study somewhere that includes a diagram of some kind that reveals that being nice to your team doesn't work? Any sport will do.
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2021 23:52:21 GMT
Im not saying we should sack him but if we want to win something maybe he isn't the man...there's a lot to be proud of about him and it will be a sad day the day he does eventually leave the England job but I fear we will always be the nearly men with him in charge n that would be a travesty with the players to pick from...I'm not slating him but he got it horribly wrong last night and it cost us. I'm happy for him to take us to the world cup and I really hope he succeeds but the FA may have to make a really tough decision if we fail in Qatar.
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2021 23:54:18 GMT
Yeah cos he's nice😂 I'd rather win something mate. Why do you think that being nice is incompatible with sporting success? Is there a study somewhere that includes a diagram of some kind that reveals that being nice to your team doesn't work? Any sport will do. No but that's kind of my point skip...surely there is a coach with both traits n I don't think Southgate does...I hope I'm wrong mate.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 13, 2021 3:58:12 GMT
Right now I'll take a nice manager who has the respect of the whole squad over a bastard hell bent on winning (who will probably come no closer to winning because he's a hard bastard). The best players in England who qualify to play for England clearly respect him. You can't ask for much more than that. Yeah cos he's nice😂 I'd rather win something mate. Getting the respect of all your players, creating a culture where they're willing to run through brick walls for each other, fostering an atmosphere where a significant number of players are not playing but delighted to be part of the squad... No England manager (other than maybe Venables) has been able to do that before, regardless of how tactically brilliant they were (Hoddle), authoritarian they were (Capello), passionate they were (Keegan), experienced they were (Hodgson) etc etc, it just goes on and on. We've tried every type of manager and none of them have managed to foster the feelgood factor about playing for England that Southgate has. That's the sort of stuff that the FootballManager experts don't understand- that in real life, management is actually more about your relationships with people than it is about anything else. The players clearly love Southgate, love playing for England, and a World cup semi and Euros final in consecutive tournaments suggests that's worth a hell of a lot.
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Post by theonlooker on Jul 13, 2021 6:55:44 GMT
My thoughts on Southgate are similar to thoughts I had about Pochettino at Spurs. Done an excellent job at taking the side from a mid to low point to on the cusp of achieving something and at a much higher level than we are used to, however with serious question marks over whether he can go that extra step as a coach and win major honours at the very highest level.
So we find ourselves in a tricky spot. Do we really criticise a man that has clearly and obviously done a very good job, blooded loads of youngsters, taken the country to a place they haven't been to in decades and has laid down some serious foundations for future managers?
Or do we go down the very harsh road of pointing out similar issues and mistakes at the hard end of the last two tournaments, where opposing managers have changed their sides mid game and he had absolutely no answer?
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 7:00:21 GMT
My thoughts on Southgate are similar to thoughts I had about Pochettino at Spurs. Done an excellent job at taking the side from a mid to low point to on the cusp of achieving something and at a much higher level than we are used to, however with serious question marks over whether he can go that extra step as a coach and win major honours at the very highest level. So we find ourselves in a tricky spot. Do we criticise a man that has clearly and obviously done a very good job, blooded loads of youngsters, taken the country to a place they haven't been to in decades and has laid down some serious foundations for future managers? Or do we go down the very harsh road of pointing out similar issues and mistakes at the hard end of the last two tournaments, where opposing managers have changed their sides mid game and he had absolutely no answer? I think that’s a fair summary except for the “very harsh road” bit. There’s nothing harsh in the comment you made.
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 13, 2021 7:14:38 GMT
My thoughts on Southgate are similar to thoughts I had about Pochettino at Spurs. Done an excellent job at taking the side from a mid to low point to on the cusp of achieving something and at a much higher level than we are used to, however with serious question marks over whether he can go that extra step as a coach and win major honours at the very highest level. So we find ourselves in a tricky spot. Do we really criticise a man that has clearly and obviously done a very good job, blooded loads of youngsters, taken the country to a place they haven't been to in decades and has laid down some serious foundations for future managers? Or do we go down the very harsh road of pointing out similar issues and mistakes at the hard end of the last two tournaments, where opposing managers have changed their sides mid game and he had absolutely no answer? His big weakness is he doesnt have the tactical nous to change things mid game which is obviously easier said than done but surely we can have a plan b/c ready to be rolled out. I wasnt overly critical of the second half but we really should have gone after them in Extra Time. We had the opportunity to get Sancho/Rashford running at their yellow carded and tired centre halfs. That being said, we obviously stick with him at least until after the World Cup. Hes managed the young players very well and fostered a great team spirit. When all is said and done, we've had 2 very good tournaments in a row with young players who will improve further.
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Post by hardcastle on Jul 13, 2021 8:17:13 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. Correct, Trousers.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 13, 2021 8:35:05 GMT
Before this tournament, we'd never won a Euro knockout game without penalties... In 1988, 1992 and 2000 we didn't make it out of the group. In 2008 we didn't even qualify. We hadn't beaten one of the proper big sides since 2000 (Germany- and we still exited in the group stage) We lost to fucking Iceland last time. But this year, not only did we not lose a single game, we beat Germany 2-0, thrashed Ukraine 4-0, came through a humdinger of a semi-final against a really strong Denmark team, and were within a penalty kick of beating what's probably the world's best team and taking the trophy. Yeah, let's sack the guy who did that. You're wasting your time mate, there really are quite a few numptys on here these days.
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