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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 5, 2021 23:05:35 GMT
If we can afford " Eat help to help out " surely we can afford more than 1% for nurses?
I realise that one is short term, the other on going, but nevertheless.....I think we owe nurses something in respect of the pandemic.
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 5, 2021 23:11:42 GMT
If we can afford " Eat help to help out " surely we can afford more than 1% for nurses? I realise that one is short term, the other on going, but nevertheless.....I think we owe nurses something in respect of the pandemic. And the shelf stackers, shop assistants, delivery drivers, warehouse workers.....and all the other workers on minimum wage who have kept the country going this past 12 months. |
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Post by steve66 on Mar 5, 2021 23:20:30 GMT
If we can afford " Eat help to help out " surely we can afford more than 1% for nurses? I realise that one is short term, the other on going, but nevertheless.....I think we owe nurses something in respect of the pandemic. And the shelf stackers, shop assistants, delivery drivers, warehouse workers.....and all the other workers on minimum wage who have kept the country going this past 12 months. Carer’s (like moi) |
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Post by Cns on Mar 5, 2021 23:30:01 GMT
I thought they negotiated their own pay raises last year.
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Post by felonious on Mar 6, 2021 7:11:01 GMT
If we can afford " Eat help to help out " surely we can afford more than 1% for nurses? I realise that one is short term, the other on going, but nevertheless.....I think we owe nurses something in respect of the pandemic. And the shelf stackers, shop assistants, delivery drivers, warehouse workers.....and all the other workers on minimum wage who have kept the country going this past 12 months. .... and everyone else out there without jobs guaranteed for life and through pandemics by the state. |
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 6, 2021 7:20:00 GMT
I get the emotional fallout from the 1% headlines, but didn't they recently have a pretty decent uplift from the pre covid pay review. Im all for rewarding health workers properly but the unions demand for 12% does harm their case IMO. As someone has stated
They are much better placed than many to ride out the next few years of pain
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Post by zerps on Mar 6, 2021 8:06:24 GMT
If one good thing’s come from this pandemic, the uptake of nhs and key workers should increase due to job security.
This 1% seems a slap in the face mind.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 6, 2021 8:22:45 GMT
I find it interesting that when we talk about a pay rise for NHS staff the response is often “Where is the money coming from?” but the same argument is rarely used for billion pound bombing sprees over in the Middle East, we always seem to be able to stretch ourselves for that.....
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 6, 2021 8:32:13 GMT
Is a nhs pay rise across the board or are doctors and nurses separated from say admin
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 6, 2021 8:36:16 GMT
4.1% was recommended for MPs last time.
And 11% before that.
They're public sector employees too, aren't they?
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Post by Dave the Rave on Mar 6, 2021 8:37:58 GMT
I get the emotional fallout from the 1% headlines, but didn't they recently have a pretty decent uplift from the pre covid pay review. Im all for rewarding health workers properly but the unions demand for 12% does harm their case IMO. As someone has stated They are much better placed than many to ride out the next few years of pain The 'pay rise' wasn't quite how it's been painted in the media. NHS staff receive increases in salary at set increments as part of their normal terms and conditions, up to a maximum value defined by the salary band they're on. The recent 'pay deal' involved accelerating some staff up those increments over a 3 year period, meaning they hit the top of their pay band more quickly than they would have done previously (by 1-2 years in most cases). However, for staff who were already at the top of the pay bands when this was introduced (i.e. the most experienced staff) the actual inflationary increase applied to their salary was much, much lower than the headline figures you seen being thrown around. The percentage increase quoted by the government crudely included the normal incremental increases which are not part of a pay deal, but a way of recognising skills and experience. They've tried to conflate these two issues for years. Also, that 'deal' finishes this financial year, so it's quite right a new one should be negotiated for April 2021 onwards. |
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Post by franklin on Mar 6, 2021 8:38:24 GMT
Lots of people have worked through this to keep the country going and plenty in reduced wages/income given the current situation its a fair offer which plenty of the others won't even get.
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Post by lordb on Mar 6, 2021 8:41:46 GMT
Lot's of people have worked through this it's true but NHS staff have put their health and their lives on the line
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Post by Dave the Rave on Mar 6, 2021 8:47:06 GMT
Is a nhs pay rise across the board or are doctors and nurses separated from say admin Doctors and Nurses have different pay review bodies. The government negotiations relate to Agenda for Change staff which covers most clinical staff (excluding medical and dental) plus admin and clerical staff. Don't forget, Nurses don't get paid without admin staff. Goods don't arrive on site without admin staff. Expenses don't get paid without admin staff. Suppliers don't get paid without admin staff. Patient records don't get updated without admin staff. CQC reports don't get completed without admin staff. FOI requests can't be answered without admin staff. I could go on for hours! I find the demonisation of admin staff and managers in the NHS quite baffling (not saying you're doing that I just see it a lot). How can you expect to run a £150bn organisation without admin and management staff? Hospitals don't just run themselves. I work in Financial Management at a £450m Trust and we're as much a valued member of the operational teams as anyone. Without decent governance you can't provide decent care. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2021 8:48:31 GMT
Lots of people have worked through this to keep the country going and plenty in reduced wages/income given the current situation its a fair offer which plenty of the others won't even get. Agree. I cannot agree with the OP. Millions of people are facing job losses in the next 6 months. Many hundreds of thousands have already lost their jobs. Livelihoods and lives have been shattered with small business owners struggling to put food on a plate for their families due to these horrifying draconian lockdowns. NHS workers should get a pay rise, but to demand that they get it right now while the country enters its biggest economical crash on record (and threaten strike which completely contradicts the reasoning staff work for the NHS) is beyond disgusting. NHS staff and teachers currently have the most secure line of work in the country and need a bit of a reality check as to what's going on around them. It is their choice to work for the public sector which guarantees more job security but pays lower salaries in the same way its one's choice to work in the private sector, earn well, but risk being out of work whenever we get an economic downturn. I fully appreciate many NHS workers vehemently oppose this vile suggestion of strikes and also recognise that pay rises in the current climate are not appropriate. As with all these things, it's a small, angry minority backed up by the militant left. |
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Post by Dave the Rave on Mar 6, 2021 8:53:03 GMT
Lots of people have worked through this to keep the country going and plenty in reduced wages/income given the current situation its a fair offer which plenty of the others won't even get. The Government can't immediately force private companies to look after their staff better, but they should lead by example with public sector workers. If private sector staff are getting a raw deal, they should join a union and fight for better pay. If companies refuse, staff leave, they have no workforce and they fold, paving the way for more ethical companies to take their place. Of course, the reality is people are trapped in debt so feel powerless against unscrupulous employers, so carry on accepting crap wages. We're also constantly told we should be grateful to have a job at all. This is why Capitalism needs an overhaul. You can't punish public sector workers because bosses in private firms don't value their staff properly. |
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Post by Dave the Rave on Mar 6, 2021 9:02:37 GMT
Lots of people have worked through this to keep the country going and plenty in reduced wages/income given the current situation its a fair offer which plenty of the others won't even get. Agree. I cannot agree with the OP. Millions of people are facing job losses in the next 6 months. Many hundreds of thousands have already lost their jobs. Livelihoods and lives have been shattered with small business owners struggling to put food on a plate for their families due to these horrifying draconian lockdowns. NHS workers should get a pay rise, but to demand that they get it right now while the country enters its biggest economical crash on record (and threaten strike which completely contradicts the reasoning staff work for the NHS) is beyond disgusting. NHS staff and teachers currently have the most secure line of work in the country and need a bit of a reality check as to what's going on around them. It is their choice to work for the public sector which guarantees more job security but pays lower salaries in the same way its one's choice to work in the private sector, earn well, but risk being out of work whenever we get an economic downturn. I fully appreciate many NHS workers vehemently oppose this vile suggestion of strikes and also recognise that pay rises in the current climate are not appropriate. As with all these things, it's a small, angry minority backed up by the militant left. Isn't denying public sector workers a proper pay rise just because the private sector won't do the same falling into politics of envy? Very strange to see that coming from the 'right'. The pitfalls of capitalism should not be used as a reason to suppress public sector pay. For 10 years nurses have seen a real terms pay cut. In the United Kingdom in 2021 that is an absolute disgrace. Perhaps instead of keeping the NHS at private sector levels, we should try and legislate in such a way that brings the values and morals of the private sector up? |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2021 9:12:27 GMT
Agree. I cannot agree with the OP. Millions of people are facing job losses in the next 6 months. Many hundreds of thousands have already lost their jobs. Livelihoods and lives have been shattered with small business owners struggling to put food on a plate for their families due to these horrifying draconian lockdowns. NHS workers should get a pay rise, but to demand that they get it right now while the country enters its biggest economical crash on record (and threaten strike which completely contradicts the reasoning staff work for the NHS) is beyond disgusting. NHS staff and teachers currently have the most secure line of work in the country and need a bit of a reality check as to what's going on around them. It is their choice to work for the public sector which guarantees more job security but pays lower salaries in the same way its one's choice to work in the private sector, earn well, but risk being out of work whenever we get an economic downturn. I fully appreciate many NHS workers vehemently oppose this vile suggestion of strikes and also recognise that pay rises in the current climate are not appropriate. As with all these things, it's a small, angry minority backed up by the militant left. Isn't denying public sector workers a proper pay rise just because the private sector won't do the same falling into politics of envy? Very strange to see that coming from the 'right'. The pitfalls of capitalism should not be used as a reason to suppress public sector pay. For 10 years nurses have seen a real terms pay cut. In the United Kingdom in 2021 that is an absolute disgrace. Perhaps instead of keeping the NHS at private sector levels, we should try and legislate in such a way that brings the values and morals of the private sector up? It's got nothing to do with envy. Just a combination of common sense, reason and appreciation of the economical damage the country has gone and will go through. We have half a trillion of debt, mass unemployment and chucking out big pay rises just because of a small minority of angry, bitter anoraks (and Karens) should be nowhere near top of the priorities. I'm not disputing the fact that NHS stuff will need a pay rise, its the timing of it that makes it completely absurd. I also don't buy into this latest bullshit play on words that is coming from the left "they are getting a pay cut". Sure, inflation is going up, but because I'm not getting a pay rise this year, I don't go around saying "I got a pay cut" 😂 What I think completely sums up this nasty minority is the fact it was this exact same grouping that have been calling for lockdowns and more lockdowns and more lockdowns. Guess fucking what? When you shut a country down for a year, you fuck up your economy. Theyve got 1% more than most employees this year and need to sit tight until they get an additional rise once this economical mess is sorted out. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2021 9:18:40 GMT
4.1% was recommended for MPs last time. And 11% before that. They're public sector employees too, aren't they? I'll agree with you on that. The MP rises are disgusting. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 6, 2021 9:22:16 GMT
Agree. I cannot agree with the OP. Millions of people are facing job losses in the next 6 months. Many hundreds of thousands have already lost their jobs. Livelihoods and lives have been shattered with small business owners struggling to put food on a plate for their families due to these horrifying draconian lockdowns. NHS workers should get a pay rise, but to demand that they get it right now while the country enters its biggest economical crash on record (and threaten strike which completely contradicts the reasoning staff work for the NHS) is beyond disgusting. NHS staff and teachers currently have the most secure line of work in the country and need a bit of a reality check as to what's going on around them. It is their choice to work for the public sector which guarantees more job security but pays lower salaries in the same way its one's choice to work in the private sector, earn well, but risk being out of work whenever we get an economic downturn. I fully appreciate many NHS workers vehemently oppose this vile suggestion of strikes and also recognise that pay rises in the current climate are not appropriate. As with all these things, it's a small, angry minority backed up by the militant left. Isn't denying public sector workers a proper pay rise just because the private sector won't do the same falling into politics of envy? Very strange to see that coming from the 'right'. The pitfalls of capitalism should not be used as a reason to suppress public sector pay. For 10 years nurses have seen a real terms pay cut. In the United Kingdom in 2021 that is an absolute disgrace. Perhaps instead of keeping the NHS at private sector levels, we should try and legislate in such a way that brings the values and morals of the private sector up? Yes, I don't see why it has to be a binary choice or that the two directions have to be mutually exclusive! |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 6, 2021 9:31:29 GMT
Isn't denying public sector workers a proper pay rise just because the private sector won't do the same falling into politics of envy? Very strange to see that coming from the 'right'. The pitfalls of capitalism should not be used as a reason to suppress public sector pay. For 10 years nurses have seen a real terms pay cut. In the United Kingdom in 2021 that is an absolute disgrace. Perhaps instead of keeping the NHS at private sector levels, we should try and legislate in such a way that brings the values and morals of the private sector up? It's got nothing to do with envy. Just a combination of common sense, reason and appreciation of the economical damage the country has gone and will go through. We have half a trillion of debt, mass unemployment and chucking out big pay rises just because of a small minority of angry, bitter anoraks (and Karens) should be nowhere near top of the priorities. I'm not disputing the fact that NHS stuff will need a pay rise, its the timing of it that makes it completely absurd. I also don't buy into this latest bullshit play on words that is coming from the left "they are getting a pay cut". Sure, inflation is going up, but because I'm not getting a pay rise this year, I don't go around saying "I got a pay cut" 😂 What I think completely sums up this nasty minority is the fact it was this exact same grouping that have been calling for lockdowns and more lockdowns and more lockdowns. Guess fucking what? When you shut a country down for a year, you fuck up your economy. Theyve got 1% more than most employees this year and need to sit tight until they get an additional rise once this economical mess is sorted out. Economic and unemployment forecasts certainly aren't suggesting "mass unemployment". A rise to a 5.9% peak in 2022 followed by a drop, and a GDP increase of 4% in the second half of 2021 and 7.3% in 20222....... |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2021 9:36:38 GMT
It's got nothing to do with envy. Just a combination of common sense, reason and appreciation of the economical damage the country has gone and will go through. We have half a trillion of debt, mass unemployment and chucking out big pay rises just because of a small minority of angry, bitter anoraks (and Karens) should be nowhere near top of the priorities. I'm not disputing the fact that NHS stuff will need a pay rise, its the timing of it that makes it completely absurd. I also don't buy into this latest bullshit play on words that is coming from the left "they are getting a pay cut". Sure, inflation is going up, but because I'm not getting a pay rise this year, I don't go around saying "I got a pay cut" 😂 What I think completely sums up this nasty minority is the fact it was this exact same grouping that have been calling for lockdowns and more lockdowns and more lockdowns. Guess fucking what? When you shut a country down for a year, you fuck up your economy. Theyve got 1% more than most employees this year and need to sit tight until they get an additional rise once this economical mess is sorted out. Economic and unemployment forecasts certainly aren't suggesting "mass unemployment". A rise to a 5.9% peak in 2022 followed by a drop, and a GDP increase of 4% in the second half of 2021 and 7.3% in 20222....... Furlough is a ticking time bomb. We've got 1000 of them and I know what their fate is. Clearly, fingers crossed, many of the millions on furlough will return to work but many won't. Even if we miraculously avoid a deep recession, wouldn't it be wise for us to at least wait and see how the economic land lies before dishing out billions in pay rises? No one is denying their pay rise, they are merely saying the timing isn't right. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 6, 2021 9:43:36 GMT
Is a nhs pay rise across the board or are doctors and nurses separated from say admin Doctors and Nurses have different pay review bodies. The government negotiations relate to Agenda for Change staff which covers most clinical staff (excluding medical and dental) plus admin and clerical staff. Don't forget, Nurses don't get paid without admin staff. Goods don't arrive on site without admin staff. Expenses don't get paid without admin staff. Suppliers don't get paid without admin staff. Patient records don't get updated without admin staff. CQC reports don't get completed without admin staff. FOI requests can't be answered without admin staff. I could go on for hours! I find the demonisation of admin staff and managers in the NHS quite baffling (not saying you're doing that I just see it a lot). How can you expect to run a £150bn organisation without admin and management staff? Hospitals don't just run themselves. I work in Financial Management at a £450m Trust and we're as much a valued member of the operational teams as anyone. Without decent governance you can't provide decent care.[/quote Thank you for that |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 6, 2021 9:44:10 GMT
Economic and unemployment forecasts certainly aren't suggesting "mass unemployment". A rise to a 5.9% peak in 2022 followed by a drop, and a GDP increase of 4% in the second half of 2021 and 7.3% in 20222....... Furlough is a ticking time bomb. We've got 1000 of them and I know what their fate is. Clearly, fingers crossed, many of the millions on furlough will return to work but many won't. Even if we miraculously avoid a deep recession, wouldn't it be wise for us to at least wait and see how the economic land lies before dishing out billions in pay rises? No one is denying their pay rise, they are merely saying the timing isn't right. We shouldn't be adopting a policy of "wait and see" with the economy, we should be putting together a plan for a radical green economy that would make us one of the world leaders in that field..... |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2021 9:45:03 GMT
Furlough is a ticking time bomb. We've got 1000 of them and I know what their fate is. Clearly, fingers crossed, many of the millions on furlough will return to work but many won't. Even if we miraculously avoid a deep recession, wouldn't it be wise for us to at least wait and see how the economic land lies before dishing out billions in pay rises? No one is denying their pay rise, they are merely saying the timing isn't right. We shouldn't be adopting a policy of "wait and see" with the economy, we should be putting together a plan for a radical green economy that would make us one of the world leaders in that field..... Are you Boris in disguise?! 😉 |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 6, 2021 9:45:55 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 6, 2021 9:46:15 GMT
Is a nhs pay rise across the board or are doctors and nurses separated from say admin Doctors and Nurses have different pay review bodies. The government negotiations relate to Agenda for Change staff which covers most clinical staff (excluding medical and dental) plus admin and clerical staff. Don't forget, Nurses don't get paid without admin staff. Goods don't arrive on site without admin staff. Expenses don't get paid without admin staff. Suppliers don't get paid without admin staff. Patient records don't get updated without admin staff. CQC reports don't get completed without admin staff. FOI requests can't be answered without admin staff. I could go on for hours! I find the demonisation of admin staff and managers in the NHS quite baffling (not saying you're doing that I just see it a lot). How can you expect to run a £150bn organisation without admin and management staff? Hospitals don't just run themselves. I work in Financial Management at a £450m Trust and we're as much a valued member of the operational teams as anyone. Without decent governance you can't provide decent care. It's the classic trick that governments play when talking about cost cutting (they like to refer to it a the "back office" to project visions of a few staff photocopying and bumming around all day) |
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Post by franklin on Mar 6, 2021 9:46:21 GMT
Lot's of people have worked through this it's true but NHS staff have put their health and their lives on the line So have shop workers,bus drivers,taxi drivers,teachers and many more and for less money. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 6, 2021 9:47:03 GMT
We shouldn't be adopting a policy of "wait and see" with the economy, we should be putting together a plan for a radical green economy that would make us one of the world leaders in that field..... Are you Boris in disguise?! 😉 No. The current offering from our government doesn't even scratch the surface...... |
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Post by franklin on Mar 6, 2021 9:52:10 GMT
And now they are threatening to go on strike. Its disgraceful timing and emotional blackmail. |
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