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Post by franklin on Mar 6, 2021 14:58:32 GMT
Agree. I cannot agree with the OP. Millions of people are facing job losses in the next 6 months. Many hundreds of thousands have already lost their jobs. Livelihoods and lives have been shattered with small business owners struggling to put food on a plate for their families due to these horrifying draconian lockdowns. NHS workers should get a pay rise, but to demand that they get it right now while the country enters its biggest economical crash on record (and threaten strike which completely contradicts the reasoning staff work for the NHS) is beyond disgusting. NHS staff and teachers currently have the most secure line of work in the country and need a bit of a reality check as to what's going on around them. It is their choice to work for the public sector which guarantees more job security but pays lower salaries in the same way its one's choice to work in the private sector, earn well, but risk being out of work whenever we get an economic downturn. I fully appreciate many NHS workers vehemently oppose this vile suggestion of strikes and also recognise that pay rises in the current climate are not appropriate. As with all these things, it's a small, angry minority backed up by the militant left. Demanding it right now? I’m pretty sure it’s a reaction to the pathetic 1% offered in the budget. Some people would just argue with their shadow. A bit like yourself nothing to add just insults.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 6, 2021 15:47:34 GMT
Maybe we could stop paying to keep illegal immigrants in 4* hotels on full board plus £40 a week "pocket money", deport all foreign nationals in our prisons and put the money saved into the pot for NHS pay rises charity begins at home time we started to realise that fact. Lovely idea, but not sure this government agrees with you, if feeding hungry kids was any indicator...
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 6, 2021 15:52:30 GMT
The deification of the NHS is utterly bizarre and started with the government in March last year. Now its come back to haunt them. No other country in the world has this complete obsession with deifying their health service. It's ridiculous and frankly, becoming pretty creepy. You've got children being indoctrinated into thinking that the NHS is this sacred God like, untouchable savior. In reality, its an underperforming health service that's creaking at the seams that urgently needs a whole lot of restructuring. Anyone who questions it seems to be in the same category as a member of Isis. In fact, the militant left would probably argue you're worse than Isis. The armed forces must be sat there thinking "what the fuck did we do wrong, we never got this kind of praise". Erm....Dec 2020 (and extensive coverage in most of the national newspapers...)
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2021 15:57:21 GMT
The deification of the NHS is utterly bizarre and started with the government in March last year. Now its come back to haunt them. No other country in the world has this complete obsession with deifying their health service. It's ridiculous and frankly, becoming pretty creepy. You've got children being indoctrinated into thinking that the NHS is this sacred God like, untouchable savior. In reality, its an underperforming health service that's creaking at the seams that urgently needs a whole lot of restructuring. Anyone who questions it seems to be in the same category as a member of Isis. In fact, the militant left would probably argue you're worse than Isis. The armed forces must be sat there thinking "what the fuck did we do wrong, we never got this kind of praise". Erm....Dec 2020 (and extensive coverage in most of the national newspapers...) I'm referring to the relentless obsession and deifying of the NHS. We don't see anything like that kind of glorifying for the armed forces.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Mar 6, 2021 16:07:05 GMT
Demanding it right now? I’m pretty sure it’s a reaction to the pathetic 1% offered in the budget. Some people would just argue with their shadow. A bit like yourself nothing to add just insults. Where have I insulted anybody?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 6, 2021 16:27:20 GMT
Maybe we could stop paying to keep illegal immigrants in 4* hotels on full board plus £40 a week "pocket money", deport all foreign nationals in our prisons and put the money saved into the pot for NHS pay rises charity begins at home time we started to realise that fact. Lovely idea, but not sure this government agrees with you, if feeding hungry kids was any indicator... Of course all those starving kids, we have one of the highest numbers of overweight children in Europe
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 6, 2021 21:09:44 GMT
Maybe we could stop paying to keep illegal immigrants in 4* hotels on full board plus £40 a week "pocket money", deport all foreign nationals in our prisons and put the money saved into the pot for NHS pay rises charity begins at home time we started to realise that fact. Lovely idea, but not sure this government agrees with you, if feeding hungry kids was any indicator... We spend 10 billion a year on foreign aid , but a leaked paper is saying we will be halving that amount and rightly so as charity does begin at home
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 6, 2021 21:12:37 GMT
I think they have been unique, many left their families for months and worked themselves into the ground. The pictures of their contorted faces after 14 hour shifts wearing heavy duty masks was heart breaking but predictably soon forgotten. If we're mocking them for trying to realise their worth, at least lets admit what an utter sham that nonsense was in the summer with that fop haired moron cynically clapping them and now hanging them out to dry. We all know who this Government see as key workers in this country, these twats, those who saw covid as an opportunity not to care for their fellow man but to make ‘super normal returns’ on the back of misery and death. www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/05/rees-mogg-firm-accused-of-cashing-in-on-coronavirus-crisisWe are an awful country when you step back and look at it. All very emotional did you clap for my lady when she went to work everyday in a supermarket. Did you get any knock off bog roll
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Post by franklin on Mar 6, 2021 21:22:16 GMT
All very emotional did you clap for my lady when she went to work everyday in a supermarket. Did you get any knock off bog roll I have a bidet 😂
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Post by ChesterStokie on Mar 6, 2021 21:46:25 GMT
Maybe we could stop paying to keep illegal immigrants in 4* hotels on full board plus £40 a week "pocket money", deport all foreign nationals in our prisons and put the money saved into the pot for NHS pay rises charity begins at home time we started to realise that fact. To be fair the asylum seekers that have taken over the hotel down the road from me this last year are not allowed to use the swimming pool or gym. And it’s only a 3 star hotel.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 6, 2021 22:57:52 GMT
Maybe we could stop paying to keep illegal immigrants in 4* hotels on full board plus £40 a week "pocket money", deport all foreign nationals in our prisons and put the money saved into the pot for NHS pay rises charity begins at home time we started to realise that fact. To be fair the asylum seekers that have taken over the hotel down the road from me this last year are not allowed to use the swimming pool or gym. And it’s only a 3 star hotel. That is disgusting those poor downtrodden people mistreated in that way, as a nation we should hang our heads in shame I am sure the human rights lizards and libtards will be all over these blatant and frankly unacceptable human rights violation's like a tramp on a bag of chips, I blame the inhuman Tories for this the heartless bastards do they not think of the starving children these poor males of fighting age who have abandoned in their war torn countries like Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Yemen etc. to seek a safe life illegal for themselves in the UK, Marcus Rashford needs alerting to the plight of these poor abandoned mites thousands of miles away he could campaign our government to send daily meals to them at our cost of course............ FFS only 3 fcuking stars
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Post by mattyd2 on Mar 6, 2021 23:44:31 GMT
Not sure if this has ever been spoken about, but with 120k plus deaths, many of whom were pensioners, surely this is something of a windfall in reduced state pension costs. Why not divert it to NHS pay.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 7, 2021 12:52:00 GMT
Slightly off topic, but out of interest, how many of those 40 new hospitals Bluffer promised to build do those arguing against a 1% payrise for nurses as unaffordable think will actually come to pass?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 7, 2021 12:56:09 GMT
Slightly off topic, but out of interest, how many of those 40 new hospitals Bluffer promised to build do those arguing against a 1% payrise for nurses as unaffordable think will actually come to pass? When was the promise made? Prior to Covid?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 7, 2021 12:58:17 GMT
Slightly off topic, but out of interest, how many of those 40 new hospitals Bluffer promised to build do those arguing against a 1% payrise for nurses as unaffordable think will actually come to pass? When was the promise made? Prior to Covid? October 2020 Cost of these hospitals is £3.7bn in total apparently. Even if you accounted for that cost in a single year, that'd leave about £14.5bn spare to fund nurses payrises from the £350mill a week we're saving from no longer paying the EU. I'm not sure why these rises are so unaffordable?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 7, 2021 13:07:07 GMT
When was the promise made? Prior to Covid? October 2020 Cost of these hospitals is £3.7bn in total apparently. Even if you accounted for that cost in a single year, that'd leave about £14.5bn spare to fund nurses payrises from the £350mill a week we're saving from no longer paying the EU. I'm not sure why these rises are so unaffordable? I guess only the government know. It’s impossible to guess / double guess what they’re thinking. One things for sure COVID-19 / furlough is going to cost a fortune and we have to make cuts somewhere. Only in time (5 - 10 years) will we know how good or bad they did.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 7, 2021 13:11:00 GMT
October 2020 Cost of these hospitals is £3.7bn in total apparently. Even if you accounted for that cost in a single year, that'd leave about £14.5bn spare to fund nurses payrises from the £350mill a week we're saving from no longer paying the EU. I'm not sure why these rises are so unaffordable? I guess only the government know. It’s impossible to guess / double guess what they’re thinking. One things for sure COVID-19 / furlough is going to cost a fortune and we have to make cuts somewhere. Only in time (5 - 10 years) will we know how good or bad they did. Do you not think we could spend some of that £18bn a year on funding nurses? Wasn't that the whole point of not sending £350mill a week to the EU so we could fund our NHS instead?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 7, 2021 13:15:32 GMT
I guess only the government know. It’s impossible to guess / double guess what they’re thinking. One things for sure COVID-19 / furlough is going to cost a fortune and we have to make cuts somewhere. Only in time (5 - 10 years) will we know how good or bad they did. Do you not think we could spend some of that £18bn a year on funding nurses? Wasn't that the whole point of not sending £350mill a week to the EU so we could fund our NHS instead? I’m not disagreeing with what your saying. But we’re at an unprecedented time at the moment. Who knows what’s happening in the think tanks.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 7, 2021 13:18:53 GMT
Do you not think we could spend some of that £18bn a year on funding nurses? Wasn't that the whole point of not sending £350mill a week to the EU so we could fund our NHS instead? I’m not disagreeing with what your saying. But we’re at an unprecedented time at the moment. Who knows what’s happening in the think tanks. I thought that was an essential message of the whole leave campaign. Seems like the first test in the post Brexit world of whether or not it really was a load of old bullshit has confirmed that it was.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 7, 2021 13:23:07 GMT
I’m not disagreeing with what your saying. But we’re at an unprecedented time at the moment. Who knows what’s happening in the think tanks. I thought that was an essential message of the whole leave campaign. Seems like the first test in the post Brexit world of whether or not it really was a load of old bullshit has confirmed that it was. We shall see. As I said we’ll only be able to see in time.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 7, 2021 14:25:40 GMT
I thought that was an essential message of the whole leave campaign. Seems like the first test in the post Brexit world of whether or not it really was a load of old bullshit has confirmed that it was. We shall see. As I said we’ll only be able to see in time. Good thread here explains alot more about the payrises and how 1% is not actually 1%.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 7, 2021 14:29:54 GMT
I thought that was an essential message of the whole leave campaign. Seems like the first test in the post Brexit world of whether or not it really was a load of old bullshit has confirmed that it was. We shall see. As I said we’ll only be able to see in time. We can see well enough right now: will we be using the 350mill a week to fund the NHS instead? Answer: no. At least not to fund nurses' well deserved payrises.
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Post by mutters on Mar 7, 2021 14:38:58 GMT
I would settle for a 1% pay cut if I could get a pension like the NHS one.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Mar 7, 2021 14:50:36 GMT
I would settle for a 1% pay cut if I could get a pension like the NHS one. NHS staff also contribute heavily towards their own pension. My contribution is 12.5% per month. I'm lucky enough to be a 40% tax payer, so after tax, NI and pension, every £1,000 I earn above the 40% threshold equates to about £460 in my pocket. It is a good pension but nowhere near as 'golden' as it once was. Employee contributions when I started were only 6% yet the pension was better than the one now.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 7, 2021 14:59:41 GMT
I would settle for a 1% pay cut if I could get a pension like the NHS one. Plenty of vacancies in the NHS , why not see if you can get a job with them?
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Post by mutters on Mar 7, 2021 15:13:02 GMT
I would settle for a 1% pay cut if I could get a pension like the NHS one. Plenty of vacancies in the NHS , why not see if you can get a job with them? Already done that more than once and been declined without interview and when I rang the number I was given for feedback, they didn't answer the phone
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 7, 2021 15:16:47 GMT
We shall see. As I said we’ll only be able to see in time. Good thread here explains alot more about the payrises and how 1% is not actually 1%. Interesting stuff that and balances things out a bit. The problem with a lot of discussions on here are that they just turn into posters favouring the left just looking to Tory bash. This sort of article will just be dismissed as a Tory rag ignoring the facts and favouring the right. As I said earlier usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. The problem is when people’s views are so deeply entrenched they will never waver whilst the likes of the Guardian or the Mail are there to fuel their fire with “true” stories.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 7, 2021 15:18:26 GMT
Plenty of vacancies in the NHS , why not see if you can get a job with them? Already done that more than once and been declined without interview and when I rang the number I was given for feedback, they didn't answer the phone Same here
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Post by mutters on Mar 7, 2021 15:34:41 GMT
I would settle for a 1% pay cut if I could get a pension like the NHS one. NHS staff also contribute heavily towards their own pension. My contribution is 12.5% per month. I'm lucky enough to be a 40% tax payer, so after tax, NI and pension, every £1,000 I earn above the 40% threshold equates to about £460 in my pocket. It is a good pension but nowhere near as 'golden' as it once was. Employee contributions when I started were only 6% yet the pension was better than the one now. I would and do contribute more than 12.5% of my salary to get an unknown return in the future. Indeed my latest pension valuation at the end of March 2020 had effectively lost 20% of its fund value - how did the NHS one perform? Please correct me but don't you / NHS / public sector have some form of defined benefit, being average salary - as a generalisation Most people in the private sector are at the mercy of investment returns, whereas people in the NHS and other public sector (and a minute shrinking number of private companies) have the pleasure of knowing what the future will hold for them financially. Like you, I'm lucky enough to be a 40% tax payer, but I have made a decision to attempt to save for my future, but I am not complaining and how much it of every £1,000 I earn above the 40% threshold and how much it equates to about £460 in my pocket. I have experience of being aware of a doctor earning circa £65K per annum, who was complaining that when his pay increase of circa £10K had gone through he was earning the same amount net prior to the pay rise I said I would be more that willing to swop pensions with the doctor but strangely they declined - I can't think why that would be? Again, I would gladly give up salary today with the guarantee of a defined return / guaranteed payment in the future, but that won't be happening will it for those of us in the private sector will it?
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Post by Dave the Rave on Mar 7, 2021 16:02:09 GMT
NHS staff also contribute heavily towards their own pension. My contribution is 12.5% per month. I'm lucky enough to be a 40% tax payer, so after tax, NI and pension, every £1,000 I earn above the 40% threshold equates to about £460 in my pocket. It is a good pension but nowhere near as 'golden' as it once was. Employee contributions when I started were only 6% yet the pension was better than the one now. I would and do contribute more than 12.5% of my salary to get an unknown return in the future. Indeed my latest pension valuation at the end of March 2020 had effectively lost 20% of its fund value - how did the NHS one perform? Please correct me but don't you / NHS / public sector have some form of defined benefit, being average salary - as a generalisation Most people in the private sector are at the mercy of investment returns, whereas people in the NHS and other public sector (and a minute shrinking number of private companies) have the pleasure of knowing what the future will hold for them financially. Like you, I'm lucky enough to be a 40% tax payer, but I have made a decision to attempt to save for my future, but I am not complaining and how much it of every £1,000 I earn above the 40% threshold and how much it equates to about £460 in my pocket. I have experience of being aware of a doctor earning circa £65K per annum, who was complaining that when his pay increase of circa £10K had gone through he was earning the same amount net prior to the pay rise I said I would be more that willing to swop pensions with the doctor but strangely they declined - I can't think why that would be? Again, I would gladly give up salary today with the guarantee of a defined return / guaranteed payment in the future, but that won't be happening will it for those of us in the private sector will it? Yeah, it's a defined benefit scheme, but they've changed it 3 times since I started. In 1995 the scheme was a final salary scheme with lump sum with 6% employee contributions. It's now average salary with no lump sum (unless you give up part of your annual pension) with employee contributions up to 14.5% depending on salary. As such, what I thought I was entering into when I joined isn't what I'll end up with. It's still a bloody good scheme, but I'd expect nothing else from a public body. If the government can't look after it's workers, how can it expect others to? I kind of get where the doctor was coming from, we had our contributions increased, reducing our take home pay, whilst accruing worse pension benefits than we had previously. So from that point of view it felt a bit shit. Reality was the old scheme wasn't affordable but it's today's workers who are plugging that gap now, not the CEO's who retired on £80k per annum pensions with a lump sum of £300k.
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