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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 27, 2019 14:36:41 GMT
Tony Teflon Scholes has been an unmitigated disaster for over 3 years now, its not even an argument. As CEO he has presided over an unholy mess so in my opinion he should be walking. Fact is he is part of the Coates mafia so is unlikely to be pushed.
There is going to have to be one fucking hell of a turn around over the next 2 years for me to get back to a position where I am neutral over the mess he has helped create.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 27, 2019 15:55:48 GMT
We can moan about Scholes all we want But he has signed the players that the previous managers wanted So is he culpable of listening to managers who should actually know who they want as they are paid to tell scholes who they want and he’s just gone out and got them. So maybe it’s the manager recruitment that is the issue! Naive gullible inexperienced yes but has he just gone out and done what he’s meant too !! I’m not sticking up for him in any way shape or form as he’s offered players contracts etc Also he will be told what he can offer etc at board meetings. Hughes was a Peter Coates signing Rowett Peter/John ? Jones definitely a John O’Neil has the earmark of a Peter/ John signing They need to learn from their mistakes quickly and we have to hope O’Neill is the right man who can turn this around But most of all we can’t go throwing good money after bad Just looking at it from a different perspective! I honestly don't hold too much of a grudge against the hirings of Rowett and Jones, both seemed like they were interesting and good options. And the signings over those times probably were manager led. My biggest issue with the board is their actions between 2016-2018. Hughes not being sacked in Summer 2017 was the biggest issue, closely followed in chronological order by: Hughes not being sacked in October 2017. Hughes not being sacked in December 2017. Not having a backup manager set before sacking Hughes. All that meant we hired a nice but tactically inept boss who couldn't keep up the best side to go down in years when he had several piss easy chances to do so. That caused relegation, and the mixture of ineptitude, lack of player motivation and bad luck from Rowett and NJ has us where we are. Nathan Jones was an unmitigated disaster for this club, we needed a level headed experienced manager at this level, the board took a massive gamble on an unstable rookie who if true signed players who were the exact opposite of what he stated we needed, young, hungry, athletic players, who would die for the shirt ! he signed lower league older players, a young slow useless CB for 2.5m, a GK who he never played, a pensioner at LB, a £9m pudding as a striker, sick note Nick Powell, 4m on Smith who then disappeared, an assortment of loans he said he wouldn't sign loan players, to top it off played a system that suited none of his signings and played McClean as a LB. How any one can defend his record is astounding.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 16:10:45 GMT
I honestly don't hold too much of a grudge against the hirings of Rowett and Jones, both seemed like they were interesting and good options. And the signings over those times probably were manager led. My biggest issue with the board is their actions between 2016-2018. Hughes not being sacked in Summer 2017 was the biggest issue, closely followed in chronological order by: Hughes not being sacked in October 2017. Hughes not being sacked in December 2017. Not having a backup manager set before sacking Hughes. All that meant we hired a nice but tactically inept boss who couldn't keep up the best side to go down in years when he had several piss easy chances to do so. That caused relegation, and the mixture of ineptitude, lack of player motivation and bad luck from Rowett and NJ has us where we are. Nathan Jones was an unmitigated disaster for this club, we needed a level headed experienced manager at this level, the board took a massive gamble on an unstable rookie who if true signed players who were the exact opposite of what he stated we needed, young, hungry, athletic players, who would die for the shirt ! he signed lower league older players, a young slow useless CB for 2.5m, a GK who he never played, a pensioner at LB, a £9m pudding as a striker, sick note Nick Powell, 4m on Smith who then disappeared, an assortment of loans he said he wouldn't sign loan players, to top it off played a system that suited none of his signings and played McClean as a LB. How any one can defend his record is astounding.
Ok
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 27, 2019 16:35:14 GMT
He is. Incredible isn’t it. We really do have some of the thickest fans on the planet. Says a man trying to defend Scholes. Ironic. But defending him on the choice of our current manager. Do you believe we should be criticizing anyone connected to the club about the choice of our current manager?
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 27, 2019 16:37:51 GMT
Sort of agree, although in life it does not necessarily follow that heads should roll. It is not the “Apprentice”. This is real life. This might sound very gloomy to many on here, but what happens if MON is the right appointment and we go storming back to the Premier League in the next two or three years? In that scenario, the Board, including TS will have played a blinder (remember they have one of the most difficult tasks in English football at the moment). I am sure the fair minded commentators on here will no doubt sing their praises as they did before? That would be five totally unnecessary seasons outside the top flight. And our ten year legacy will count for Jack shit. But well done scholesly for rebuilding a poorer version of what you destroyed we can say. Wake up, it's 2020, not 2017. We are were bottom of the league. Cry about it all you want, but from here if we get back to the Prem in 2-3 years, we will have done well.
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Post by chicagostokie on Dec 27, 2019 16:39:36 GMT
Says a man trying to defend Scholes. Ironic. But defending him on the choice of our current manager. Do you believe we should be criticizing anyone connected to the club about the choice of our current manager? I think you quoted the wrong comment. I'm criticizing Scholes for a hell of a lot more than manager selection. The man is a catastrophe of an executive and the list of his incompetence grows by the week. He's a disease in the club and needs removing as soon as possible. IF MON is a success (and that remains a big if), that won't be enough to make up for the huge amount of utter failure he has proceeded over.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 27, 2019 16:40:57 GMT
Says a man trying to defend Scholes. Ironic. But defending him on the choice of our current manager. Do you believe we should be criticizing anyone connected to the club about the choice of our current manager? It's way too early to say. It's another sizeable gamble on a bloke with not much club level experience. Fingers crossed it works out. Jury still very much out.
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Post by shipshape on Dec 27, 2019 16:51:35 GMT
That would be five totally unnecessary seasons outside the top flight. And our ten year legacy will count for Jack shit. But well done scholesly for rebuilding a poorer version of what you destroyed we can say. Wake up, it's 2020, not 2017. We are were bottom of the league. Cry about it all you want, but from here if we get back to the Prem in 2-3 years, we will have done well. Cry about what? What on earth are you on about?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 27, 2019 18:48:30 GMT
People are queuing up to wade into MoN. Sad and Pathetic.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 27, 2019 19:24:06 GMT
Says a man trying to defend Scholes. Ironic. But defending him on the choice of our current manager. Do you believe we should be criticizing anyone connected to the club about the choice of our current manager? No, but even a broken watch is correct twice a day. Scholes has had a shockingly awful 3 plus years. Its literally impossible to argue otherwise. He might not be the only person to blame but he is definitely part of the current problem.
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 27, 2019 20:54:58 GMT
But defending him on the choice of our current manager. Do you believe we should be criticizing anyone connected to the club about the choice of our current manager? It's way too early to say. It's another sizeable gamble on a bloke with not much club level experience. Fingers crossed it works out. Jury still very much out. After 9 games, he's won 4 with the same team that the previous incumbent couldn't get a tune out of (Scoring 3 or more goals in 3 of those). That's good enough for me, and, if it is too early to say, shouldn't we be giving him the benefit of the doubt?
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 27, 2019 20:57:44 GMT
Wake up, it's 2020, not 2017. We are were bottom of the league. Cry about it all you want, but from here if we get back to the Prem in 2-3 years, we will have done well. Cry about what? What on earth are you on about? You said ".. that's 5 years outside the Prem that were totally unnecessary". We are close to the bottom in this our second year down. Nothing anyone can do about our relegation or the 2 years we've wasted. If we get back in 3 years from our current position we will have done well. What part don't you understand?
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Post by shipshape on Dec 27, 2019 21:06:27 GMT
Cry about what? What on earth are you on about? You said ".. that's 5 years outside the Prem that were totally unnecessary". We are close to the bottom in this our second year down. Nothing anyone can do about our relegation or the 2 years we've wasted. If we get back in 3 years from our current position we will have done well. What part don't you understand? 2 already wasted. 3 proposed to get back up. 2+3 = 5.
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 27, 2019 21:14:36 GMT
You said ".. that's 5 years outside the Prem that were totally unnecessary". We are close to the bottom in this our second year down. Nothing anyone can do about our relegation or the 2 years we've wasted. If we get back in 3 years from our current position we will have done well. What part don't you understand? 2 already wasted. 3 proposed to get back up. 2+3 = 5. Hence, Wake up, we're not in 2017. Nothing we can do about what's happened. IF we get back from where we are we will have done well. Yes, a total of 5, but 2 are gone. The current manager will have done a good job to get us back in 3.
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Post by shipshape on Dec 27, 2019 21:20:03 GMT
2 already wasted. 3 proposed to get back up. 2+3 = 5. Hence, Wake up, we're not in 2017. Nothing we can do about what's happened. IF we get back from where we are we will have done well. Yes, a total of 5, but 2 are gone. The current manager will have done a good job to get us back in 3. From this position, I agree he will have done. However the whole point is that Scholes incompetence led to a completely unnecessary relegation in the first place, which has been compounded by error upon error since. We've had one excellent win to get us off the bottom of the second tier. Does that absolve him (Scholes) of all the abject shit he has delivered to put us there in the first place?
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 27, 2019 21:29:51 GMT
But defending him on the choice of our current manager. Do you believe we should be criticizing anyone connected to the club about the choice of our current manager? No, but even a broken watch is correct twice a day. Scholes has had a shockingly awful 3 plus years. Its literally impossible to argue otherwise. He might not be the only person to blame but he is definitely part of the current problem. He's the CEO of a business that has fallen like a brick for three years despite spending mega millions, there is no basis on which to defend the part he has played in our demise, it's a massive indictment on our owners that they have overseen this and yet Scholes is still in the job, incompetent owners employing incompetent people has lead to our downfall.
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Post by ParaPsych on Dec 27, 2019 21:34:56 GMT
It's way too early to say. It's another sizeable gamble on a bloke with not much club level experience. Fingers crossed it works out. Jury still very much out. After 9 games, he's won 4 with the same team that the previous incumbent couldn't get a tune out of (Scoring 3 or more goals in 3 of those). That's good enough for me, and, if it is too early to say, shouldn't we be giving him the benefit of the doubt? O'Neill may well yet prove to be a crap manager, after all most of them usually do, but it's already obvious he's a damn site better than that fucking moron we had before. I don't think comparing anyone to that cretin tells us much at all.
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 28, 2019 0:03:26 GMT
Hence, Wake up, we're not in 2017. Nothing we can do about what's happened. IF we get back from where we are we will have done well. Yes, a total of 5, but 2 are gone. The current manager will have done a good job to get us back in 3. From this position, I agree he will have done. However the whole point is that Scholes incompetence led to a completely unnecessary relegation in the first place, which has been compounded by error upon error since. We've had one excellent win to get us off the bottom of the second tier. Does that absolve him (Scholes) of all the abject shit he has delivered to put us there in the first place? Not saying Scholes has done a good job, but I think that blaming him for the relegation is way off the mark.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 0:08:49 GMT
From this position, I agree he will have done. However the whole point is that Scholes incompetence led to a completely unnecessary relegation in the first place, which has been compounded by error upon error since. We've had one excellent win to get us off the bottom of the second tier. Does that absolve him (Scholes) of all the abject shit he has delivered to put us there in the first place? Not saying Scholes has done a good job, but I think that blaming him for the relegation is way off the mark. SCFC has become a total, complete and utter failure in every respect. Relegation is a consequence of that.
Therefore .........
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Post by shipshape on Dec 28, 2019 6:56:59 GMT
From this position, I agree he will have done. However the whole point is that Scholes incompetence led to a completely unnecessary relegation in the first place, which has been compounded by error upon error since. We've had one excellent win to get us off the bottom of the second tier. Does that absolve him (Scholes) of all the abject shit he has delivered to put us there in the first place? Not saying Scholes has done a good job, but I think that blaming him for the relegation is way off the mark. Not 100% no - why does everything get taken so black and white on this forum? The club (business) that he has been chief executive of has declined immensely under his stewardship, with millions and millions wiped off the balance sheet. Good reputation has been destroyed. Debts have ballooned. Standing in the game has been pissed away. All while we've had the financial backing to sustain or even build on what we had. In any other business, he would have been "looking for new opportunities" long ago. The reason he is not is down to the incompetence of the board - see not all his fault. However, this thread is about Scholes. Not about Coates. Not about O'Neill. Scholes out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 7:41:31 GMT
People are queuing up to wade into MoN. Sad and Pathetic. No they aren't. The odd one or two are questioning some of his decisions and the rest are supportive. I think the treatment he is getting is symptomatic of where we are in the league more than anything. I also don't think the new manager has done himself any favours by leaving his NI job open.
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 28, 2019 10:18:39 GMT
Not saying Scholes has done a good job, but I think that blaming him for the relegation is way off the mark. Not 100% no - why does everything get taken so black and white on this forum? The club (business) that he has been chief executive of has declined immensely under his stewardship, with millions and millions wiped off the balance sheet. Good reputation has been destroyed. Debts have ballooned. Standing in the game has been pissed away. All while we've had the financial backing to sustain or even build on what we had. In any other business, he would have been "looking for new opportunities" long ago. The reason he is not is down to the incompetence of the board - see not all his fault. However, this thread is about Scholes. Not about Coates. Not about O'Neill. Scholes out. Yes, and let’s imagine that Scholes had performed in such a way as CEO for Bet365, would Denise have kept him on and supported him giving him big pay rises along the way? Would she have tolerated let alone supported such a CEO in the same way her father has with SCFC? BM
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 28, 2019 10:23:33 GMT
People are queuing up to wade into MoN. Sad and Pathetic. No they aren't. The odd one or two are questioning some of his decisions and the rest are supportive. I think the treatment he is getting is symptomatic of where we are in the league more than anything. I also don't think the new manager has done himself any favours by leaving his NI job open. Before a team was selected certain people who should know a whole lot better were wading in. When a manager takes a job on with a team and an organisation like SCFC have he needs all the support he can get. Instead SCFC fans are letting him have it - 12th man eh?
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 28, 2019 10:25:03 GMT
Not 100% no - why does everything get taken so black and white on this forum? The club (business) that he has been chief executive of has declined immensely under his stewardship, with millions and millions wiped off the balance sheet. Good reputation has been destroyed. Debts have ballooned. Standing in the game has been pissed away. All while we've had the financial backing to sustain or even build on what we had. In any other business, he would have been "looking for new opportunities" long ago. The reason he is not is down to the incompetence of the board - see not all his fault. However, this thread is about Scholes. Not about Coates. Not about O'Neill. Scholes out. Yes, and let’s imagine that Scholes had performed in such a way as CEO for Bet365, would Denise have kept him on and supported him giving him big pay rises along the way? Would she have tolerated let alone supported such a CEO in the same way her father has with SCFC? BM He would have out on his arse three years ago, you don't sustain and grow a successful business by rewarding failure it's utter madness, I believe Jnr has a lot to do with the Scholes situation what other explanation could there be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 10:29:08 GMT
I believe Jnr has a lot to do with the Scholes situation what other explanation could there be. That the board is a "team"?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 28, 2019 10:29:48 GMT
No they aren't. The odd one or two are questioning some of his decisions and the rest are supportive. I think the treatment he is getting is symptomatic of where we are in the league more than anything. I also don't think the new manager has done himself any favours by leaving his NI job open. Before a team was selected certain people who should know a whole lot better were wading in. When a manager takes a job on with a team and an organisation like SCFC have he needs all the support he can get. Instead SCFC fans are letting him have it - 12th man eh? Fuck me you’re a hypocrite. You - of all people - are advocating happy clapping.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 28, 2019 10:40:35 GMT
Before a team was selected certain people who should know a whole lot better were wading in. When a manager takes a job on with a team and an organisation like SCFC have he needs all the support he can get. Instead SCFC fans are letting him have it - 12th man eh? Fuck me you’re a hypocrite. You - of all people - are advocating happy clapping. Bollocks, I'm up for giving a bloke with an impossible job a bit of a chance rather than questioning his commitment before a ball has been kicked and bleating about not selecting blokes who have done the square root of fuck all for us.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 28, 2019 10:50:24 GMT
I believe Jnr has a lot to do with the Scholes situation what other explanation could there be. That the board is a "team"? Maybe that is the case looking at the "team" they have built on and off the pitch.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 28, 2019 10:51:49 GMT
Fuck me you’re a hypocrite. You - of all people - are advocating happy clapping. Bollocks, I'm up for giving a bloke with an impossible job a bit of a chance rather than questioning his commitment before a ball has been kicked and bleating about not selecting blokes who have done the square root of fuck all for us. What you're saying is that the manager is beyond criticism. What sort of '12th man' do you reckon you were during the promotion season or the first season up, when you'd lose your shit over trivialities like Richie De Laet going to Manchester United? Now you're saying anyone who questions anything when we need to scrap for every point isn't a proper fan?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 28, 2019 10:59:32 GMT
Bollocks, I'm up for giving a bloke with an impossible job a bit of a chance rather than questioning his commitment before a ball has been kicked and bleating about not selecting blokes who have done the square root of fuck all for us. What you're saying is that the manager is beyond criticism. What sort of '12th man' do you reckon you were during the promotion season or the first season up, when you'd lose your shit over trivialities like Richie De Laet going to Manchester United? Now you're saying anyone who questions anything when we need to scrap for every point isn't a proper fan? I think criticising a manager before he's picked one team in our current predicament is out of order. You're bringing up stuff that happened 10 years ago ffs.
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