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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 9:34:29 GMT
Is it Joe Allen going AWOL or is it the majority of the team sitting back when they should be pressing? The fact he’s hardly been dropped over the years suggests it’s the latter regardless of how incompetent you think the managers are, it wouldn’t make sense to keep a liability like that on the pitch. Saying that I wouldn’t mind seeing a few games without him, just for the sake of comparison. I don't think he has ever been dropped, only suspended many times. It's probably written into his contract that he can't be. That or the manager is scared of dropping a big earner.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Aug 4, 2019 9:36:30 GMT
Joe was awful but will be better next game.
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Post by nigerianstokie on Aug 4, 2019 9:39:59 GMT
You could repeat the same statement ad nauseam for the past three years. He’s not even anything close to a competent footballer. If every one of our players had shown the desire he did today we’d have three points. End of. I am sick to death of people rolling out shite lines such as “he showed desire.” All of us would fucking do that, it is a minimal requirement. He is nothing more than a dogshit footballer, no wonder he signed a new contract with us when we came down, he knew nobody would be in for him.
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Post by nigerianstokie on Aug 4, 2019 9:44:26 GMT
Joe was awful but will be better next game. People have been saying that for 4 years...
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 4, 2019 9:47:39 GMT
As the onlooker said earlier in the thread his body language(especially 2nd half) was absolutely dreadful yesterday and all this with his international manager watching. He looked totally lost in the position he played yesterday and for me I’d play him at the base of the diamond in place of the hapless Cousins
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Post by Gob Bluth on Aug 4, 2019 9:49:07 GMT
Joe was awful but will be better next game. People have been saying that for 4 years... So I think I differ from most and think he was largely very good last year and effective. I also thought he was player of the season the season before.
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Joe Allen
Aug 4, 2019 10:00:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by bhp on Aug 4, 2019 10:00:28 GMT
Apart from an effort on the volley in the first half Powell was having a nightmare. Then close second between Allen and Cousins for second worst. Didn't think Clucas was that bad to be honest
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Post by LGH87 on Aug 4, 2019 10:03:38 GMT
He WAS man of the match. Not saying a lot, but most of the comments here seem to have come from people who'd be better off following a different sport. 'Opinions' eh! And here lies the problem with our club.
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Post by sergeifaye on Aug 4, 2019 10:28:36 GMT
Is this the same Joe Allen who played 190 odd times for Swansea right at the time they were bombing up the leagues? Is this the same Joe Allen who played 91 times for Liverpool? Is this the same Joe Allen who helped Wales get to the Euro Semi Finals? Is this the same Joe Allen who was banging them in for fun when he first signed and Hughes was playing him further forward? I don't recall anyone calling him sh!/e then! His game hasnt changed to my eyes since then so all of a sudden he's become a bad player?
Our main issue in my eyes is we've got nobody to hold the ball up and play off. I'm not saying play long ball but when the ball gets in the final 3rd it comes straight back because Afobe and Vokes are useless at it. They maybe good at playing off a target man (wouldnt know cause I haven't seen it) but they're absolutely useless at holding the ball up. Compare them to Akinibiyi & Noel William or Sidibe and Fuller and I could cry. We aren't scoring goals plain and simple. We scored a few in pre season but against lower level teams.
Blaming our better players isn't going to help. Etebo coming back is going to be massive. I just hope he wants to be here.
Plus this diamond won't work. Anybody with a brain will do what QPR did and set up with wide players. I've got serious reservations about Jones. I saw in another thread somebody call him a Snake Oil Salesman and I'm afraid they might be right.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 4, 2019 10:31:39 GMT
Is this the same Joe Allen who played 190 odd times for Swansea right at the time they were bombing up the leagues? Is this the same Joe Allen who played 91 times for Liverpool? Is this the same Joe Allen who helped Wales get to the Euro Semi Finals? Is this the same Joe Allen who was banging them in for fun when he first signed and Hughes was playing him further forward? I don't recall anyone calling him sh!/e then! His game hasnt changed to my eyes since then so all of a sudden he's become a bad player? Our main issue in my eyes is we've got nobody to hold the ball up and play off. I'm not saying play long ball but when the ball gets in the final 3rd it comes straight back because Afobe and Vokes are useless at it. They maybe good at playing off a target man (wouldnt know cause I haven't seen it) but they're absolutely useless at holding the ball up. Compare them to Akinibiyi & Noel William or Sidibe and Fuller and I could cry. We aren't scoring goals plain and simple. We scored a few in pre season but against lower level teams. Blaming our better players isn't going to help. Etebo coming back is going to be massive. I just hope he wants to be here. Plus this diamond won't work. Anybody with a brain will do what QPR did and set up with wide players. I've got serious reservations about Jones. I saw in another thread somebody call him a Snake Oil Salesman and I'm afraid they might be right. We’re not looking at Joe Allen for Liverpool or Swansea, we’re looking at him for Stoke City, and he’s been absolutely shit for almost the entirety of his spell here. As has been stated he’s been the one constant in a midfield that has been dogshit for three years, and has continued to be terrible in a lesser division. That weird purple patch of goals has rendered him undroppable for some inexplicable reason. Our midfield was fine before we introduced this clown into it.
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Joe Allen
Aug 4, 2019 10:49:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by sergeifaye on Aug 4, 2019 10:49:07 GMT
Is this the same Joe Allen who played 190 odd times for Swansea right at the time they were bombing up the leagues? Is this the same Joe Allen who played 91 times for Liverpool? Is this the same Joe Allen who helped Wales get to the Euro Semi Finals? Is this the same Joe Allen who was banging them in for fun when he first signed and Hughes was playing him further forward? I don't recall anyone calling him sh!/e then! His game hasnt changed to my eyes since then so all of a sudden he's become a bad player? Our main issue in my eyes is we've got nobody to hold the ball up and play off. I'm not saying play long ball but when the ball gets in the final 3rd it comes straight back because Afobe and Vokes are useless at it. They maybe good at playing off a target man (wouldnt know cause I haven't seen it) but they're absolutely useless at holding the ball up. Compare them to Akinibiyi & Noel William or Sidibe and Fuller and I could cry. We aren't scoring goals plain and simple. We scored a few in pre season but against lower level teams. Blaming our better players isn't going to help. Etebo coming back is going to be massive. I just hope he wants to be here. Plus this diamond won't work. Anybody with a brain will do what QPR did and set up with wide players. I've got serious reservations about Jones. I saw in another thread somebody call him a Snake Oil Salesman and I'm afraid they might be right. We’re not looking at Joe Allen for Liverpool or Swansea, we’re looking at him for Stoke City, and he’s been absolutely shit for almost the entirety of his spell here. As has been stated he’s been the one constant in a midfield that has been dogshit for three years, and has continued to be terrible in a lesser division. That weird purple patch of goals has rendered him undroppable for some inexplicable reason. Our midfield was fine before we introduced this clown into it. If we had strikers who were looking decent and scoring goals would this conversation be even happening? No chance.
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Joe Allen
Aug 4, 2019 11:04:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 11:04:14 GMT
Is this the same Joe Allen who played 190 odd times for Swansea right at the time they were bombing up the leagues? Is this the same Joe Allen who played 91 times for Liverpool? Is this the same Joe Allen who helped Wales get to the Euro Semi Finals? Is this the same Joe Allen who was banging them in for fun when he first signed and Hughes was playing him further forward? I don't recall anyone calling him sh!/e then! His game hasnt changed to my eyes since then so all of a sudden he's become a bad player? Our main issue in my eyes is we've got nobody to hold the ball up and play off. I'm not saying play long ball but when the ball gets in the final 3rd it comes straight back because Afobe and Vokes are useless at it. They maybe good at playing off a target man (wouldnt know cause I haven't seen it) but they're absolutely useless at holding the ball up. Compare them to Akinibiyi & Noel William or Sidibe and Fuller and I could cry. We aren't scoring goals plain and simple. We scored a few in pre season but against lower level teams. Blaming our better players isn't going to help. Etebo coming back is going to be massive. I just hope he wants to be here. Plus this diamond won't work. Anybody with a brain will do what QPR did and set up with wide players. I've got serious reservations about Jones. I saw in another thread somebody call him a Snake Oil Salesman and I'm afraid they might be right. List Joe Allen's top 5 performances for Stoke. Those where he's been an 8/10 and our best player on the day. Honest request.
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Post by deadwait on Aug 4, 2019 11:04:21 GMT
I cant understand this criticism of Joe Allen. Yes he does cover every blade of grass, but that is in his endeavours to break up opponents attacks, to which I believe he is successful. What doesn't appear to be noticed by many supporters is his ability to find space when we are attempting to make a forward move. This is in comparison with team mates happy enough to receive passes with a defender up their backsides. Man of the match--- totally agree.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 4, 2019 11:18:09 GMT
Joe played far far better once Jones change the formation and put Clucas at left-back (his stronger side), and Joe back on the right (his stronger side).....
More evidence that the diamond system is shit with the players we have!!!
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Post by walton corner on Aug 4, 2019 11:33:42 GMT
Joe is a holding midfielder. Like he does for Wales ...why do club managers see him differently....also isn’t MOM still chosen by main sponsors that have been on the red wine and gin for about 5 hours
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Joe Allen
Aug 4, 2019 11:55:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Aug 4, 2019 11:55:29 GMT
Joe Allen wasn't my Man of the Match. He was my #5.
Clucas Campbell Ince Collins Allen Butland Gregory McClean Powell Cousins Batth Afobe Vokes Smith
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Post by nigerianstokie on Aug 4, 2019 13:12:41 GMT
People have been saying that for 4 years... So I think I differ from most and think he was largely very good last year and effective. I also thought he was player of the season the season before. And last season when Etebo showed him up even more for the monumental clown that he is, he was very good. Etebo carried him and the rest of our midfield last year. So the season Shaqiri single-handedly gave us some sort of hope of staying up, Joe Allen was player of the season. Alrighty then.
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Post by nigerianstokie on Aug 4, 2019 13:14:22 GMT
We’re not looking at Joe Allen for Liverpool or Swansea, we’re looking at him for Stoke City, and he’s been absolutely shit for almost the entirety of his spell here. As has been stated he’s been the one constant in a midfield that has been dogshit for three years, and has continued to be terrible in a lesser division. That weird purple patch of goals has rendered him undroppable for some inexplicable reason. Our midfield was fine before we introduced this clown into it. If we had strikers who were looking decent and scoring goals would this conversation be even happening? No chance. Yes, it would. If our strikers could score, it wouldn’t change the fact that our midfield, which is built around Joe Allen, is shite.
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Joe Allen
Aug 4, 2019 13:48:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 4, 2019 13:48:26 GMT
Joe was awful but will be better next game. People have been saying that for 4 years... Its unbelievable isnt it? He must own the record for the most "MOTM Awards" for when a team has lost, again. 2nd season in the Championship and not a single (publically known) bid.
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Post by nigerianstokie on Aug 4, 2019 21:16:00 GMT
People have been saying that for 4 years... Its unbelievable isnt it? He must own the record for the most "MOTM Awards" for when a team has lost, again. 2nd season in the Championship and not a single (publically known) bid. Apart from his run at No. 10 he hasn’t deserved a single MOTM. That run at No. 10 when he was brilliant is the worst brilliant run I will ever see. If it wasn’t for that, and particularly that goal at Old Trafford he would be a consigned to our history by now.
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 4, 2019 21:19:39 GMT
Joe Allen was hiding behind there midfielders to avoid getting on the ball in that first half that is why we cannot get up the pitch, especially through midfield.
He is a very good player but he is not what we need im afraid, dropped a massive bollock in keeping Joe and missing out on Sawyers.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Aug 5, 2019 3:15:08 GMT
Joe Allen is like a shit version of Dean Whitehead. He’s been a massive part of the problem since he arrived at the club, and has shown no signs that he’s every going to improve. He’s absolutely fucking pointless.
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Post by melbournestokie21 on Aug 5, 2019 3:18:32 GMT
If you think Joe Allens the problem, dont think so hard you'll hurt yourself
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Post by scfcrmagic on Aug 5, 2019 4:52:14 GMT
I don’t think Allen had a particularly good game on Saturday, but I like him...he doesn’t hide on the pitch like a lot do ..it is the first game of the season, give him a chance ..he gives 100% every match, I wish a few more did . .
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 5, 2019 5:04:04 GMT
I don’t think Allen had a particularly good game on Saturday, but I like him...he doesn’t hide on the pitch like a lot do ..it is the first game of the season, give him a chance ..he gives 100% every match, I wish a few more did . . Does this 'GIVE HIM TIME, FIRST GAME, NEEDS GAMES' only apply to Stoke City. I'm sorry but I'm sick to death of this being thrown out to defend absolute shit performances and it doesn't end there, we will sign someone near the end of window he'll end up being wank but you know exactly what'll be used to defend him.....'NEEDS A FULL PRESEASON'
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Post by jeycov on Aug 5, 2019 5:16:06 GMT
So why is he so effective for Wales?
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 5, 2019 6:24:20 GMT
I don’t think Allen had a particularly good game on Saturday, but I like him...he doesn’t hide on the pitch like a lot do ..it is the first game of the season, give him a chance ..he gives 100% every match, I wish a few more did . . From what i saw in that first half he did a lot of hiding, Tomaine sawyers against Nottingham Forest was always available and looking to play forward the same cannot be said about Joe.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 5, 2019 8:36:45 GMT
So why is he so effective for Wales? Because international football puts you in a completely different context, under different managers and systems. He's been part of the Wales setup way longer than he's been part of ours, Wales have players that bring out the best in his role, whereas his role in club football is so bespoke not a single manager we've had has been able to get that out of him without sacrificing others who would be better in the role in which he plays. Wales don't exactly play through teams, so there's no need to find a forward and progressive pass because most of the time he's looking for Bale or Harry Wilson to do something with it. Or a long ball of Vokes. He plays with a very good CM ahead of him in Ramsey who does everything Allen can't so he doesn't have to do it himself. The difference is we don't have a player like that at the moment. There's a reason why there's such a strong correlation of transfers flopping based on International Performance or why some players can't easily transition between the two.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 8:39:56 GMT
So why is he so effective for Wales? Because international football puts you in a completely different context, under different managers and systems. He's been part of the Wales setup way longer than he's been part of ours, Wales have players that bring out the best in his role, whereas his role in club football is so bespoke not a single manager we've had has been able to get that out of him without sacrificing others who would be better in the role in which he plays. Wales don't exactly play through teams, so there's no need to find a forward and progressive pass because most of the time he's looking for Bale or Harry Wilson to do something with it. Or a long ball of Vokes. He plays with a very good CM ahead of him in Ramsey who does everything Allen can't so he doesn't have to do it himself. The difference is we don't have a player like that at the moment. There's a reason why there's such a strong correlation of transfers flopping based on International Performance or why some players can't easily transition between the two. So because he's not having to do everyone else's job for them then? Which is what he consistently tries to do here? He plays better with Etebo, I think Allen in a diamond is a disaster but I imagine it will be better when Etebo is back.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 5, 2019 8:43:41 GMT
If you think Joe Allens the problem, dont think so hard you'll hurt yourself He is a problem. There isn't a single problem there's myriad and you can't ignore any of them IMO. Why do we pass around the back so much? I hear people say. Because we don't have a guy in midfield capable of progressively passing the ball through a defensive or midfield line. He had so many opportunities to exploit the space behind their channel midfielders yet he simply turned round and passed sideways. The fullbacks then had to come back and we passed around the back again. His touch is appalling, and he doesn't have the strength to make up for it leading to him being barged off the ball easily. He doesn't press effectively, standing 4 metres away from a player isn't pressing it's no man's land. Their missed header in the first half down the left stems from him and McClean not pressing well, at one point Allen turned round to face the box and then turned round to face the touchline, not moving towards his feet at all. He may as well have been a traffic cone in that instance. Not creative enough, not brave enough going forward, not incisive enough, not strong enough, not disciplined enough and not good enough for a CM role in that formation or any other he's been in for the last 3 years.
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