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Post by robboleek on Apr 15, 2019 5:58:25 GMT
With the world and his wife thinking NJ is going to manage what a lot of our managers before him have not namely to ‘shift the shit’ where exactly do people think he will send it ? Do people honestly think these players will find other clubs then agree to take a massive hit on wages and that is even if Stoke allow them to leave for free practically.
I find it staggering that people don’t realise these players will be more than happy to see their contracts out with us rotting in the reserves / U23s / training on their own rather than take a massive hit on wages. They know these contracts will pretty much set them up for life.
Can’t wait for this ‘clear out’ as we are simply not a club who can carry the shit AND sign sign new players. Unless Coates et al decide to go shit or bust which I really doubt.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 6:34:04 GMT
You just know that the ones who could possibly be the ones to help us get out of this mess, will be the first ones moved on.
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Post by werrington on Apr 15, 2019 6:36:04 GMT
Sell who we can. Pay players contracts out. Tell some it pointless staying you won't be played. Certain players Jones will happily keep. Any decent money in for those Jones would like to keep, let them go. Anyone who not wanted accept an ok amount. Keep wanted players separate from those bad eggs when pre season training starts. You can only sell players who are wanted by another club or if they are prepared to take a drop in wages And to pay players contracts up would be financial suicide |
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Post by FrankButcher on Apr 15, 2019 6:40:23 GMT
With the world and his wife thinking NJ is going to manage what a lot of our managers before him have not namely to ‘shift the shit’ where exactly do people think he will send it ? Do people honestly think these players will find other clubs then agree to take a massive hit on wages and that is even if Stoke allow them to leave for free practically. I find it staggering that people don’t realise these players will be more than happy to see their contracts out with us rotting in the reserves / U23s / training on their own rather than take a massive hit on wages. They know these contracts will pretty much set them up for life. Can’t wait for this ‘clear out’ as we are simply not a club who can carry the shit AND sign sign new players. Unless Coates et al decide to go shit or bust which I really doubt. There's no way they'll leave and take a pay cut at another club like you say they would rather rot in the reserves and take the money and see the contract's out who is going to pay the transfer fees and wages of some of our squad anyway?? We might see a couple leave but this mass clear out I can't see it myself I'll be amazed if we pull it off. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 6:49:00 GMT
People are assuming we'll be able to do it all in one summer and happy days. We won't, it's going to take years.
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Post by knyperstokie on Apr 15, 2019 6:49:07 GMT
Sell who we can. Pay players contracts out. Tell some it pointless staying you won't be played. Certain players Jones will happily keep. Any decent money in for those Jones would like to keep, let them go. Anyone who not wanted accept an ok amount. Keep wanted players separate from those bad eggs when pre season training starts. You can only sell players who are wanted by another club or if they are prepared to take a drop in wages And to pay players contracts up would be financial suicide
Many of the players at Stoke are on their last lucrative contract. Adam, Imbula, Shawcross, Wimmer, Berahino, etc will not get anything like the terms that they are on now. Some would have to drop down the divisions to find another club. To get rid would then mean paying up millions to, cancel contracts. Most are unsellable or would just go for a nominal fee.
Championship players of the type we want are not cheap.
It would require a massive injection of cash to do this, so I'd be surprised if it happens.
It will take a few years to get rid and then we need to make sure that other dead beats don't emerge. I remember reading that Ferguson was reluctant to give long contracts to players who were around 30 years old.
My first cost saving would be the people who got us into this mess in the first place.
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Post by robboleek on Apr 15, 2019 6:57:46 GMT
Glad I am not going crazy then and in the minority of those thinking it will happen like somebody waving a wand. Seems most appreciate the situation more than I thought. Then again that will teach me for listening to Praise and Grumble too much 😂😂
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Post by stokie23 on Apr 15, 2019 7:18:37 GMT
First and foremost Ashley Williams will return to Everton. Then we have Charlie Adam and Darren Fletcher who are out of contract. Hopefully there will be grounds to sack Berahino too.
Clucas, Ince and McClean are good championship players that just do not fit into the way Jones wants to play...i’m not saying we will be able to get the same money back for them as we paid but surely we can sell them - I reckon Forrest will take McClean. Burnley might go back in for Clucas ??
If Allen/Etebo/Butland leave, at least we can reinvest that money back into the squad.
As somebody said above, it’s not going to be done this summer but we can certainly make a start - problem is, I don’t trust the board to make the right signings even if we do ship out 5/6 players.
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Post by werrington on Apr 15, 2019 7:18:39 GMT
You can only sell players who are wanted by another club or if they are prepared to take a drop in wages And to pay players contracts up would be financial suicide I totally agree we have to give it 100% effort. It suicide if we keep most of who we have. Supporters will not turn up. On Saturday I realized how very bad the situation is. We must go forward with youngsters and several loans. A rebuild may turn supporters away, who knows. We are physically and mentally not good enough for the championship. We have some premier league ability. The physicality that needed in the championship is not there. I know you are concerned and know the point you are trying to make but unless somebody wants those players they are stuck here....you don’t just pay 4/5 players contracts up when they are potentially on 70k per week with another 3 years to run....where’s that money going to come from to pay it one foul swoop? They also have some resale value whether it be £10m or £2m |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 7:19:23 GMT
First and foremost Ashley Williams will return to Everton. Then we have Charlie Adam and Darren Fletcher who are out of contract. Hopefully there will be grounds to sack Berahino too. Clucas, Ince and McClean are good championship players that just do not fit into the way Jones wants to play...i’m not saying we will be able to get the same money back for them as we paid but surely we can sell them - I reckon Forrest will take McClean. Burnley might go back in for Clucas ?? If Allen/Etebo/Butland leave, at least we can reinvest that money back into the squad. As somebody said above, it’s not going to be done this summer but we can certainly make a start - problem is, I don’t trust the board to make the right signings even if we do ship out 5/6 players. The board don't make the signings. |
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Post by nik80 on Apr 15, 2019 7:26:47 GMT
First and foremost Ashley Williams will return to Everton. Then we have Charlie Adam and Darren Fletcher who are out of contract. Hopefully there will be grounds to sack Berahino too. Clucas, Ince and McClean are good championship players that just do not fit into the way Jones wants to play...i’m not saying we will be able to get the same money back for them as we paid but surely we can sell them - I reckon Forrest will take McClean. Burnley might go back in for Clucas ?? If Allen/Etebo/Butland leave, at least we can reinvest that money back into the squad. As somebody said above, it’s not going to be done this summer but we can certainly make a start - problem is, I don’t trust the board to make the right signings even if we do ship out 5/6 players. The board don't make the signings. Essentially this is the same discussion we’ve been having on the Jones post match interview thread isn’t it? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 7:36:35 GMT
The board don't make the signings. Essentially this is the same discussion we’ve been having on the Jones post match interview thread isn’t it? To a point, the thing I fundamentally don’t want to see is another fucking dinosaur coming in and buying thirty somethings and hoofing us back to the Stone Age. |
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Post by tpholloway1 on Apr 15, 2019 7:41:07 GMT
Just as a matter of interest, if we pay up contracts does that have any affect on FFP?
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Post by Gods on Apr 15, 2019 7:47:11 GMT
The OP is quite correct, it simply can't be done.
It's the reason you need to do a West Ham or Newcastle and get back up before the parachute payments run out.
If you don't you risk a prolonged spell in the wilderness.
Our last 3 managers and indeed the board members should have done a much better job of getting our talented miscreants back on side.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 15, 2019 7:51:44 GMT
I think you can get up to 11/12 going quite easily - but that doesn't include the real hard-to-shift group of Wimmer/Berahino/Imbula etc or all the Rowett garbage - and does include the 2 or 3 we'd like to keep in an ideal world.
The 4 2019 expirees will go, and the 4 2020 expirees will be easy enough to shift plus the 3 we could get good money for (Butland, Allen, Etebo).
2019
-(Williams) Going
Haugaard Going
-Adam Almost sure to be going. Very slight chance of 1-yr extension
-Fletcher Going
2020
-Federici May as well stay as back-up.
-Pieters Doesn't look like there was much interest beyond placing him on loan at Amiens at the last minute? Small fee at best, but definitely going. He'll want to play. Seems to be doing well in France which will help
-Cameron Free transfer at best, but going. Maybe time for MLS. Will find a taker, even if we have to ease the way with a pay-off.
-Bojan Assuming West Brom's offer for Bojan was a free given his wages? And New England's supposedly was. But almost certainly going, and someone will take him.
-Diouf Possibly on a free. He's 32 in December, but going. Probably will be takers.
2021
-Butland £15m-ish? Almost certain to be going. Needs a Prem move really.
-Shawcross Will probably stay. Can offer something.
-Imbula Slight chance of a move now he's playing. But not many teams who'd want him could get near the £35k-a-week he's probably still on. He's unsurprisingly, once again, not pulling up any trees. Yet another season loan probably best we can do.
2022
-Bauer Hard to see much interest if his contract is as crazy as it could be if he's back on Premier League-type money on his new deal. Could be on the kind of long-term wages that will make him very hard to move, but doesn't look like one Jones rates or wants around.
-Edwards Stay
-BMI Maybe a market in Europe of some kind. Wouldn't be against him staying, but could well go.
-Souttar Stay
-Tymon Nominal if he goes, but may be one that hangs around
-Wimmer Maybe a chance of him going at £3-4m to somewhere in Germany. Was never going to hit the clause at that price, but he seems very, very keen to leave which will help us. Could end up a loan though.
-McClean Hard to see him having any future here in a diamond, despite Jones obviously liking his character. 3 more years on money far outweighing his usefulness to anyone though, so hard to shift.
-Ndiaye Could be a market at less than half we paid. But could end up another loan.
-Allen £12m? Quite surprised if he stayed.
-Clucas Likely to stay maybe. We will need some players. Hard to see any takers in the Championship at £30k-a-week for 3 more years?
-Berahino Hopefully sacked. If not, no chance of shifting him.
-Ince If he can't adapt to number 10 role going forward, we'll have to possibly look to sell. But, despite his good Championship record, who'd offer decent money and top, top Championship wages this summer? Hard to think of a club.
-Vokes Stay
-Batth Stay
-Verlinden Stay
-Ngoy No idea. The old regime had obviously given up on him if we put a permanent clause in his loan at an affordable price to a Swiss team.
2023
-Etebo Hope he stays, but there'd be lots of takers at what we paid, even maybe at £15m+ He'd probably be keen to move on if possible. Same agent as Ndiaye, so say no more on that front. Easy to see the way the wind could blow.
-Sorensen Stay
Unknown contract expiry
-Woods No idea. Doesn't seem to be rated at all by Jones. Will be on very good C'ship money though. Quite hard to shift.
-Afobe Very, very hard to shift on top Championship wages after this season. What kind of teams would be interested, and at what kind of fee?
-Campbell Stay
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Post by nik80 on Apr 15, 2019 7:55:18 GMT
Essentially this is the same discussion we’ve been having on the Jones post match interview thread isn’t it? To a point, the thing I fundamentally don’t want to see is another fucking dinosaur coming in and buying thirty somethings and hoofing us back to the Stone Age. I understand that. Keep Jones but we are faced with the issue of these players hanging around like a bad smell. Jones is going to have to somehow use them. Much to mine and I’m sure his disgust. |
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Post by march4 on Apr 15, 2019 8:07:08 GMT
We have a squad every other club in the Championship drools over.
We simply need a manager who can motivate them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 8:11:42 GMT
We have a squad every other club in the Championship drools over. We simply need a manager who can motivate them. Who do you suggest, March? |
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Post by Gods on Apr 15, 2019 8:16:21 GMT
We have a squad every other club in the Championship drools over. We simply need a manager who can motivate them. That's the painful truth. We have good players for this level but the 3 managers we've had in the last 15 months have abjectly failed to get a tune out of them, barely a note in fact. The plan seems to be to get in some worse players and hope they are more responsive. If they are then great, if not at least we won't have the receivers in. I'm not convinced by any of it. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 8:37:13 GMT
I think you can get up to 11/12 going quite easily - but that doesn't include the real hard-to-shift group of Wimmer/Berahino/Imbula etc or all the Rowett garbage - and does include the 2 or 3 we'd like to keep in an ideal world. The 4 2019 expirees will go, and the 4 2020 expirees will be easy enough to shift plus the 3 we could get good money for (Butland, Allen, Etebo). 2019
-(Williams) Going
Haugaard Going
-Adam Almost sure to be going. Very slight chance of 1-yr extension
-Fletcher Going
2020
-Federici May as well stay as back-up.
-Pieters Doesn't look like there was much interest beyond placing him on loan at Amiens at the last minute? Small fee at best, but definitely going. He'll want to play. Seems to be doing well in France which will help
-Cameron Free transfer at best, but going. Maybe time for MLS. Will find a taker, even if we have to ease the way with a pay-off.
-Bojan Assuming West Brom's offer for Bojan was a free given his wages? And New England's supposedly was. But almost certainly going, and someone will take him.
-Diouf Possibly on a free. He's 32 in December, but going. Probably will be takers.
2021
-Butland £15m-ish? Almost certain to be going. Needs a Prem move really.
-Shawcross Will probably stay. Can offer something.
-Imbula Slight chance of a move now he's playing. But not many teams who'd want him could get near the £35k-a-week he's probably still on. He's unsurprisingly, once again, not pulling up any trees. Yet another season loan probably best we can do.
2022
-Bauer Hard to see much interest if his contract is as crazy as it could be if he's back on Premier League-type money on his new deal. Could be on the kind of long-term wages that will make him very hard to move, but doesn't look like one Jones rates or wants around.
-Edwards Stay
-BMI Maybe a market in Europe of some kind. Wouldn't be against him staying, but could well go.
-Souttar Stay
-Tymon Nominal if he goes, but may be one that hangs around
-Wimmer Maybe a chance of him going at £3-4m to somewhere in Germany. Was never going to hit the clause at that price, but he seems very, very keen to leave which will help us. Could end up a loan though.
-McClean Hard to see him having any future here in a diamond, despite Jones obviously liking his character. 3 more years on money far outweighing his usefulness to anyone though, so hard to shift.
-Ndiaye Could be a market at less than half we paid. But could end up another loan.
-Allen £12m? Quite surprised if he stayed.
-Clucas Likely to stay maybe. We will need some players. Hard to see any takers in the Championship at £30k-a-week for 3 more years?
-Berahino Hopefully sacked. If not, no chance of shifting him.
-Ince If he can't adapt to number 10 role going forward, we'll have to possibly look to sell. But, despite his good Championship record, who'd offer decent money and top, top Championship wages this summer? Hard to think of a club.
-Vokes Stay
-Batth Stay
-Verlinden Stay
-Ngoy No idea. The old regime had obviously given up on him if we put a permanent clause in his loan at an affordable price to a Swiss team.
2023
-Etebo Hope he stays, but there'd be lots of takers at what we paid, even maybe at £15m+ He'd probably be keen to move on if possible. Same agent as Ndiaye, so say no more on that front. Easy to see the way the wind could blow.
-Sorensen Stay
Unknown contract expiry
-Woods No idea. Doesn't seem to be rated at all by Jones. Will be on very good C'ship money though. Quite hard to shift.
-Afobe Very, very hard to shift on top Championship wages after this season. What kind of teams would be interested, and at what kind of fee? - Campbell Stay Woods would be one of the more shiftable ones you’d think, if for nowhere near what we paid. Reputation won’t have been totally destroyed, might even get someone like Villa or Swansea coming in for him. There’s a player in there somewhere. Hard to see a future for him here though. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 8:41:31 GMT
We have a squad every other club in the Championship drools over. We simply need a manager who can motivate them. That's the painful truth. We have good players for this level but the 3 managers we've had in the last 15 months have abjectly failed to get a tune out of them, barely a note in fact. The plan seems to be to get in some worse players and hope they are more responsive. If they are then great, if not at least we won't have the receivers in. I'm not convinced by any of it. ‘Worse’ is rather subjective isn’t it? On paper, do Sheffield United have better players than us? Certainly not reputation wise. Signing a player from Luton doesn’t automatically mean you’re signing a ‘worse’ player, it can mean you’re signing someone on an upward curve with the hunger to make the best of themselves and hopefully take us with them. We are guilty sometimes of assuming what’s worked in the past will work forever. This is our chance to be in the vanguard for once. |
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Post by neddy on Apr 15, 2019 8:50:48 GMT
I think you can get up to 11/12 going quite easily - but that doesn't include the real hard-to-shift group of Wimmer/Berahino/Imbula etc or all the Rowett garbage - and does include the 2 or 3 we'd like to keep in an ideal world. The 4 2019 expirees will go, and the 4 2020 expirees will be easy enough to shift plus the 3 we could get good money for (Butland, Allen, Etebo). 2019
-(Williams) Going
Haugaard Going
-Adam Almost sure to be going. Very slight chance of 1-yr extension
-Fletcher Going
2020
-Federici May as well stay as back-up.
-Pieters Doesn't look like there was much interest beyond placing him on loan at Amiens at the last minute? Small fee at best, but definitely going. He'll want to play. Seems to be doing well in France which will help
-Cameron Free transfer at best, but going. Maybe time for MLS. Will find a taker, even if we have to ease the way with a pay-off.
-Bojan Assuming West Brom's offer for Bojan was a free given his wages? And New England's supposedly was. But almost certainly going, and someone will take him.
-Diouf Possibly on a free. He's 32 in December, but going. Probably will be takers.
2021
-Butland £15m-ish? Almost certain to be going. Needs a Prem move really.
-Shawcross Will probably stay. Can offer something.
-Imbula Slight chance of a move now he's playing. But not many teams who'd want him could get near the £35k-a-week he's probably still on. He's unsurprisingly, once again, not pulling up any trees. Yet another season loan probably best we can do.
2022
-Bauer Hard to see much interest if his contract is as crazy as it could be if he's back on Premier League-type money on his new deal. Could be on the kind of long-term wages that will make him very hard to move, but doesn't look like one Jones rates or wants around.
-Edwards Stay
-BMI Maybe a market in Europe of some kind. Wouldn't be against him staying, but could well go.
-Souttar Stay
-Tymon Nominal if he goes, but may be one that hangs around
-Wimmer Maybe a chance of him going at £3-4m to somewhere in Germany. Was never going to hit the clause at that price, but he seems very, very keen to leave which will help us. Could end up a loan though.
-McClean Hard to see him having any future here in a diamond, despite Jones obviously liking his character. 3 more years on money far outweighing his usefulness to anyone though, so hard to shift.
-Ndiaye Could be a market at less than half we paid. But could end up another loan.
-Allen £12m? Quite surprised if he stayed.
-Clucas Likely to stay maybe. We will need some players. Hard to see any takers in the Championship at £30k-a-week for 3 more years?
-Berahino Hopefully sacked. If not, no chance of shifting him.
-Ince If he can't adapt to number 10 role going forward, we'll have to possibly look to sell. But, despite his good Championship record, who'd offer decent money and top, top Championship wages this summer? Hard to think of a club.
-Vokes Stay
-Batth Stay
-Verlinden Stay
-Ngoy No idea. The old regime had obviously given up on him if we put a permanent clause in his loan at an affordable price to a Swiss team.
2023
-Etebo Hope he stays, but there'd be lots of takers at what we paid, even maybe at £15m+ He'd probably be keen to move on if possible. Same agent as Ndiaye, so say no more on that front. Easy to see the way the wind could blow.
-Sorensen Stay
Unknown contract expiry
-Woods No idea. Doesn't seem to be rated at all by Jones. Will be on very good C'ship money though. Quite hard to shift.
-Afobe Very, very hard to shift on top Championship wages after this season. What kind of teams would be interested, and at what kind of fee? - Campbell Stay Admin.....it would really be good to pin this list FM has done to see how it pans out and comment on as a thread? Just a thought? |
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Apr 15, 2019 8:51:05 GMT
Sell who we can. Pay players contracts out. Tell some it pointless staying you won't be played. Certain players Jones will happily keep. Any decent money in for those Jones would like to keep, let them go. Anyone who not wanted accept an ok amount. Keep wanted players separate from those bad eggs when pre season training starts. You can only sell players who are wanted by another club or if they are prepared to take a drop in wages And to pay players contracts up would be financial suicide Largely a case of waiting for the dead wood's contracts to end over time unfortunately,imho,coupled with the predictable high profile departures of saleable assets such as Butland to finance any incomings. Much as I'd love NJ to adopt a slash n burn squad trimming policy it just seems too fanciful,even if it is much needed. No way can we afford to pay up so many of the sort of contracts the Imbula's et al are sat on and give the manager the funds that were handed to Rowett. |
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Post by gingerninja on Apr 15, 2019 9:04:48 GMT
Is all this mythical clearing out going be achieved between July 1st & August 9th..I don't think so..
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Post by knyperstokie on Apr 15, 2019 9:04:48 GMT
You can only sell players who are wanted by another club or if they are prepared to take a drop in wages And to pay players contracts up would be financial suicide Largely a case of waiting for the dead wood's contracts to end over time unfortunately,imho,coupled with the predictable high profile departures of saleable assets such as Butland to finance any incoming. Much as I'd love NJ to adopt a slash n burn squad trimming policy it just seems too fanciful,even if it is much needed. No way can we afford to pay up so many of the the sort of contracts the Imbula's et al are sat on and give the manager the funds that were handed to Rowett. Agree with this, but then this brings another problem. Many of the players that come to the club just don't live up to their reputations and start underperforming - they must see players who couldn't care less about SCFC on higher wages than themselves and must think 'why bother'. I used to employ people and this situation would not make for a happy workforce anywhere. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 9:14:07 GMT
Just as a matter of interest, if we pay up contracts does that have any affect on FFP? Yes. Take Imbula as an example, if he has a contract worth £2m a year over the next 3 years that £6m cost is currently spread out over the length of his contract, "the amortization of assets refers to distributing the cost of an asset over time" If you pay his contract off, the whole of that £6m (or whatever the agreed fee was) would be written off straight away as a loss and go towards your FFP target.... |
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Post by gingerninja on Apr 15, 2019 9:26:00 GMT
Prestwich Potter. You seem well informed. How many players are we looking to offload?..
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Post by Gods on Apr 15, 2019 9:39:34 GMT
That's the painful truth. We have good players for this level but the 3 managers we've had in the last 15 months have abjectly failed to get a tune out of them, barely a note in fact. The plan seems to be to get in some worse players and hope they are more responsive. If they are then great, if not at least we won't have the receivers in. I'm not convinced by any of it. ‘Worse’ is rather subjective isn’t it? On paper, do Sheffield United have better players than us? Certainly not reputation wise. Signing a player from Luton doesn’t automatically mean you’re signing a ‘worse’ player, it can mean you’re signing someone on an upward curve with the hunger to make the best of themselves and hopefully take us with them. We are guilty sometimes of assuming what’s worked in the past will work forever. This is our chance to be in the vanguard for once. Yes it is subjective. I guess by worse I mean players currently plying their trade in the lower echelons of the English football league. I suppose it can work out but you are accepting that as a recently relegated team you have no inherent advantage over the other 23 clubs, so if you go down this route you'd better be bloody good at it. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 9:48:26 GMT
‘Worse’ is rather subjective isn’t it? On paper, do Sheffield United have better players than us? Certainly not reputation wise. Signing a player from Luton doesn’t automatically mean you’re signing a ‘worse’ player, it can mean you’re signing someone on an upward curve with the hunger to make the best of themselves and hopefully take us with them. We are guilty sometimes of assuming what’s worked in the past will work forever. This is our chance to be in the vanguard for once. Yes it is subjective. I guess by worse I mean players currently plying their trade in the lower echelons of the English football league. I suppose it can work out but you are accepting that as a recently relegated team you have no inherent advantage over the other 23 clubs, so if you go down this route you'd better be bloody good at it. I think we can quite safely say we’ve spunked any advantage well and truly up the wall. Norwich have proven that it can work. Their entire side cost less than what they sold James Maddison for. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 15, 2019 10:10:28 GMT
Getting someone to buy used Condoms,would be easier than getting someone to buy most of our overpaid pile of wank.
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