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Post by mattythestokie on Apr 15, 2019 15:00:20 GMT
I've seen the diamond work in the lower leagues but does it really work in the top leagues? You can probably answer the question better than me but who has used a diamond system in this league recently and got out of the division? Last one I can remember was Lambert with Norwich but that was a while back. That said, I can’t see a reason why it wouldn’t work with the right players? Will all depend on if he can get all of those right players. He won’t have time to test things out once next season starts which is the worrying thing. I think he’ll need hit the ground running.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 15:14:26 GMT
Why would Wimmer agree to write off 70% of his contract though? He's never going to get a similar one again on current form...... No but if he got a million paid up immediately and another club prepared to pay him a signing on fee and lower wages he mightn’t be worse off at all With the contract he's on would take a lot more than a million to bridge the gap, and a lump sum doesn't help with FFP either. I agree with the principal but it's not that easy, if it were teams would paying up the contracts of expensive deadwood all the time......
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 15, 2019 15:26:27 GMT
No-one said that it would be easy to get rid of some of the hangers on - and I expect a good number of them will still be stinking the place out next year.
The big difference is the change in strategy. Last season Rowett tried to add to what we had. This summer no member of the current squad is safe - we are not building on pre-existing foundations we are ripping up the foundations with a view to starting from scratch.
The clear out isn't mythical - the only issue is who we have to keep because we haven't been able to offload.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 15, 2019 15:28:41 GMT
It'd be an interesting question to put to him in one of his press conferences instead of "have you tried an oatcake yet?" Has he even answered that yet, other than, if someone wants to send me some? Didn't Wimmer take a pay cut to go to Hannover? Fair play if he did!
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Post by knyperstokie on Apr 15, 2019 15:33:26 GMT
No but if he got a million paid up immediately and another club prepared to pay him a signing on fee and lower wages he mightn’t be worse off at all With the contract he's on would take a lot more than a million to bridge the gap, and a lump sum doesn't help with FFP either. I agree with the principal but it's not that easy, if it were teams would paying up the contracts of expensive deadwood all the time...... I remember when Wimmer came he was called a young player who's value would increase as he matured:
"Stoke announced the signing on their official Twitter feed on Tuesday and manager Mark Hughes said that he was satisfied with the club's efforts to strengthen the defence.
"Kevin is an undoubted talent. He will significantly add to the quality of the group of players that I already have," Hughes tweeted.
"We put a real emphasis on trying to enhance the defensive areas of the squad this summer. We feel that we have been able to do that.""
Only another three years before we can get rid without it costing us more! Total cost, about £30 million, less what we get for his loan spells (I hope there are others).
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Post by dreamtheater on Apr 15, 2019 15:46:28 GMT
I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. Any Clear out needs to start with those still at the club responsible at least in part for the utterly disasterous transfer policies and associated remuneration aspects of the club over some three years now.
I.e. those still at the club that have got us in the absolute mess we are now in
I think, given, no one would want our playing dross either ( apart from a couple of now tainted 'so called' assets )
e.g. Jack and Joe - imagine what you think they are worth right now - then = HALF IT !
I happen to think the club is now is, right down to making offers to pay quite a few contracts off and simply fuck them all off. ( cant see any other way)
for many, are proven liabilities not assets
and that includes, top of the list - the 'chuckle brothers' 'pizza boys' or whatever you want to fucking call them
(and how some of them look in the mirror each day whilst working for Stoke City these-days ---- I will never know )
18 wins out of 80 in the league - what more does ANYBODY need to know ?
RUBBISH STOKE - RUBBISH
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 15:52:24 GMT
Last one I can remember was Lambert with Norwich but that was a while back. That said, I can’t see a reason why it wouldn’t work with the right players? Will all depend on if he can get all of those right players. He won’t have time to test things out once next season starts which is the worrying thing. I think he’ll need hit the ground running. He’s got to be given time.
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Post by knyperstokie on Apr 15, 2019 15:54:33 GMT
I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. Any Clear out needs to start with those still at the club responsible at least in part for the utterly disasterous transfer policies and associated remuneration aspects of the club over some three years now. I think, given no onw would want our playing dross either ( apart fora couple of now tainted 'so called' assets ) T think the club is now, right down to making offers to pay quite a few contracts off and simply fuck them all off for many are proven liabilities not assets and that includes the 'chuckle brothers' 'pizza boys' or whatever you want to fucking call them (and how some of them look in the mirror each day whilst working for Stoke City these-days ---- I will never know ) 18 wins out of 80 in the league - what more does ANYBODY need to know ?
Couldn't agree more. Being given the runaround by Rotherham was a disgrace.
About this time four years ago we drew at home to West Ham and now we were lucky to draw with Rotherham.
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Post by dreamtheater on Apr 15, 2019 15:56:30 GMT
I am hearing the manager is now behaving like the classic 'rabbit in the headlights'
unable to think - unable to move - whilst seeing our total and utter footballing incompetence unfold before him now, on a weekly basis
I feel sorry for him right now
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 15, 2019 16:25:29 GMT
We really are fucked. The only players anyone will want are the ones we should keep. Catastrophic failure in recruitment, it beggars belief they are still being trusted with a brass ha penny, never mind a printer, a biro and a check book.
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Post by mattythestokie on Apr 15, 2019 17:05:11 GMT
Will all depend on if he can get all of those right players. He won’t have time to test things out once next season starts which is the worrying thing. I think he’ll need hit the ground running. He’s got to be given time. Will all depend on how the fans take to it. Expectations are very high for next season. Probably too high.
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Post by dingdongbell on Apr 15, 2019 18:59:13 GMT
Sell who we can. Pay players contracts out. Tell some it pointless staying you won't be played. Certain players Jones will happily keep. Any decent money in for those Jones would like to keep, let them go. Anyone who not wanted accept an ok amount. Keep wanted players separate from those bad eggs when pre season training starts. It will be a very small wanted squad
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Post by smallthorner on Apr 15, 2019 19:53:16 GMT
Will all depend on if he can get all of those right players. He won’t have time to test things out once next season starts which is the worrying thing. I think he’ll need hit the ground running. He’s got to be given time. So you really think Nathan's interview went something like " don't worry Nathan, this season's a right off anyway. In the summer we are going to let you sign half a dozen young vibrant new players to build a new team and subsidise the wasters on the books already if we can't get shut. Then next window we will give you a few more millions to shape your diamond. ...no pressure on next season either matey, though it would be nice if you get the play-off ... four years Nathan.. that's your project. "
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 19:57:31 GMT
He’s got to be given time. So you really think Nathan's interview went something like " don't worry Nathan, this season's a right off anyway. In the summer we are going to let you sign half a dozen young vibrant new players to build a new team and subsidise the wasters on the books already if we can't get shut. Then next window we will give you a few more millions to shape your diamond. ...no pressure on next season either matey, though it would be nice if you get the play-off ... four years Nathan.. that's your project. " I don’t think they appointed a bright young manager who’d never managed at this level before, who’s made his name playing a certain kind of football, to give him six months with this bunch, no.
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Post by kelw on Apr 15, 2019 19:58:55 GMT
With the world and his wife thinking NJ is going to manage what a lot of our managers before him have not namely to ‘shift the shit’ where exactly do people think he will send it ? Do people honestly think these players will find other clubs then agree to take a massive hit on wages and that is even if Stoke allow them to leave for free practically. I find it staggering that people don’t realise these players will be more than happy to see their contracts out with us rotting in the reserves / U23s / training on their own rather than take a massive hit on wages. They know these contracts will pretty much set them up for life. Can’t wait for this ‘clear out’ as we are simply not a club who can carry the shit AND sign sign new players. Unless Coates et al decide to go shit or bust which I really doubt. How is it 'mythical' when we haven't reached the Summer and none of us know what will actually happen?
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Post by robboleek on Apr 15, 2019 20:01:37 GMT
With the world and his wife thinking NJ is going to manage what a lot of our managers before him have not namely to ‘shift the shit’ where exactly do people think he will send it ? Do people honestly think these players will find other clubs then agree to take a massive hit on wages and that is even if Stoke allow them to leave for free practically. I find it staggering that people don’t realise these players will be more than happy to see their contracts out with us rotting in the reserves / U23s / training on their own rather than take a massive hit on wages. They know these contracts will pretty much set them up for life. Can’t wait for this ‘clear out’ as we are simply not a club who can carry the shit AND sign sign new players. Unless Coates et al decide to go shit or bust which I really doubt. How is it 'mythical' when we haven't reached the Summer and none of us know what will actually happen? Ok prediction, whatever the word used is everybody else seems to understand what I was driving at with ease. Sorry you didn’t .
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 15, 2019 20:02:18 GMT
He’s got to be given time. So you really think Nathan's interview went something like " don't worry Nathan, this season's a right off anyway. In the summer we are going to let you sign half a dozen young vibrant new players to build a new team and subsidise the wasters on the books already if we can't get shut. Then next window we will give you a few more millions to shape your diamond. ...no pressure on next season either matey, though it would be nice if you get the play-off ... four years Nathan.. that's your project. " Pretty much. Maybe 3 seasons - 4 if you count this one. A lot of fans expected promotion this season and some next. The best thing anyone can do is ignore the fans and patiently rebuild.
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Post by kelw on Apr 15, 2019 20:03:06 GMT
How is it 'mythical' when we haven't reached the Summer and none of us know what will actually happen? Ok prediction, whatever the word used is everybody else seems to understand what I was driving at with ease. Sorry you didn’t . No need to apologise. You've corrected yourself
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Post by smallthorner on Apr 15, 2019 20:05:33 GMT
So you really think Nathan's interview went something like " don't worry Nathan, this season's a right off anyway. In the summer we are going to let you sign half a dozen young vibrant new players to build a new team and subsidise the wasters on the books already if we can't get shut. Then next window we will give you a few more millions to shape your diamond. ...no pressure on next season either matey, though it would be nice if you get the play-off ... four years Nathan.. that's your project. " I don’t think they appointed a bright young manager who’d never managed at this level before, who’s made his name playing a certain kind of football, to give him six months with this bunch, no. Let's say we are third from bottom at Christmas. Do you think the "project" mentality will still be there. (From the owners perspective of course)
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Post by robboleek on Apr 15, 2019 20:05:41 GMT
Ok prediction, whatever the word used is everybody else seems to understand what I was driving at with ease. Sorry you didn’t . No need to apologise. You've corrected yourself It is just something that I thought the majority of our fans thought would happen. However it seems from the replies a lot less than I thought 👍
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 20:26:05 GMT
I don’t think they appointed a bright young manager who’d never managed at this level before, who’s made his name playing a certain kind of football, to give him six months with this bunch, no. Let's say we are third from bottom at Christmas. Do you think the "project" mentality will still be there. (From the owners perspective of course) It depends on the circumstances. Probably not if he’s well backed, everyone stays fit and his methods aren’t taking. If the performances are encouraging, even if the results don’t come immediately, he’ll be given time.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 15, 2019 20:31:52 GMT
With the world and his wife thinking NJ is going to manage what a lot of our managers before him have not namely to ‘shift the shit’ where exactly do people think he will send it ? Do people honestly think these players will find other clubs then agree to take a massive hit on wages and that is even if Stoke allow them to leave for free practically. I find it staggering that people don’t realise these players will be more than happy to see their contracts out with us rotting in the reserves / U23s / training on their own rather than take a massive hit on wages. They know these contracts will pretty much set them up for life. Can’t wait for this ‘clear out’ as we are simply not a club who can carry the shit AND sign sign new players. Unless Coates et al decide to go shit or bust which I really doubt. You say a lot but really its just Rowett, if the club is serious about getting rid its going to be a case of taking a hit on the transfer fee to save on wages, an every one must go sale with maybe only a sell on % and zero transfer fee, its the only way it'll work but its not really up to Jones he'll just be the one saying who he wants gone, after that its down to the rest of them.
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Post by smallthorner on Apr 15, 2019 20:48:09 GMT
Let's say we are third from bottom at Christmas. Do you think the "project" mentality will still be there. (From the owners perspective of course) It depends on the circumstances. Probably not if he’s well backed, everyone stays fit and his methods aren’t taking. If the performances are encouraging, even if the results don’t come immediately, he’ll be given time. Just out of interest. Do you know if Luton play with the pace, energy and intensity of Norwich and Leeds ? Because with my limited viewing of Quest.. These two teams are well ahead in those particular aspects of play.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 21:04:53 GMT
It depends on the circumstances. Probably not if he’s well backed, everyone stays fit and his methods aren’t taking. If the performances are encouraging, even if the results don’t come immediately, he’ll be given time. Just out of interest. Do you know if Luton play with the pace, energy and intensity of Norwich and Leeds ? Because with my limited viewing of Quest.. These two teams are well ahead in those particular aspects of play. Tempo and energy seem to be important to all three teams and Luton have scored a shit-tonne of goals.
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Post by spiderpuss on Apr 15, 2019 21:30:57 GMT
It will be interesting times to say the least and our playing squad and transfers, if anybody hasn't been paying attention, is a right royal mess. Somebody behind me said "get rid of the lot" on Saturday. The two easiest ones to get rid of will be Joe, Jack and maybe Peter. The two/three players we probably don't want to get rid of. The rest have pretty much just got here on ripe contracts. Unless the reports above are true, and wages are slashed, they're staying here, of that we can be sure. I think a couple will automatically go, namely Diouf and Wimmer who've clearly have had enough of being here. Others, if their contracts have been organised "cleverly" are just going to sit around and bleed the club dry. We can pay their contracts up, so they're not cluttering up the thinking, which surely Saido is at times. However do we want to take a big hit on wages in one go, or drip feed it over the course of the next few years? We obviously need a much more robust transfer policy. We seem to be mugs for the 6-12M pound player. The nearly-men of the premiership. As evidence has been seen here in SOT, they're not good enough. Rolling around in their reputations and happy to do swing-all for their wages. Until we change the very basics of team management, then we will keep regressing.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 15, 2019 23:18:12 GMT
Just out of interest. Do you know if Luton play with the pace, energy and intensity of Norwich and Leeds ? Because with my limited viewing of Quest.. These two teams are well ahead in those particular aspects of play. Tempo and energy seem to be important to all three teams and Luton have scored a shit-tonne of goals. In 2 leagues which are miles away from championship standard.
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Post by kustokie on Apr 16, 2019 0:54:24 GMT
With the world and his wife thinking NJ is going to manage what a lot of our managers before him have not namely to ‘shift the shit’ where exactly do people think he will send it ? Do people honestly think these players will find other clubs then agree to take a massive hit on wages and that is even if Stoke allow them to leave for free practically. I find it staggering that people don’t realise these players will be more than happy to see their contracts out with us rotting in the reserves / U23s / training on their own rather than take a massive hit on wages. They know these contracts will pretty much set them up for life. Can’t wait for this ‘clear out’ as we are simply not a club who can carry the shit AND sign sign new players. Unless Coates et al decide to go shit or bust which I really doubt. There's no way they'll leave and take a pay cut at another club like you say they would rather rot in the reserves and take the money and see the contract's out who is going to pay the transfer fees and wages of some of our squad anyway?? We might see a couple leave but this mass clear out I can't see it myself I'll be amazed if we pull it off. That’s not strictly true. Paying out their contracts means exactly that. They get all the money owed up to the end of their contract and are then free to play somewhere else. Therefore, they are still way ahead even if they get paid 50% of what they are being paid at Stoke because this is effectively a 50% pay raise. Plus money now is always worth more than money in the future, due to the time-value of money. The problem is where is this money going to come from? The CEO has created a massive financial liability for the Coates family and needs to be held accountable. Giving him the sack creates two more problems: first he has to be paid off and second who in their right mind would be willing to take on this financial s*** show?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 2:09:37 GMT
It will be interesting times to say the least and our playing squad and transfers, if anybody hasn't been paying attention, is a right royal mess. Somebody behind me said "get rid of the lot" on Saturday. The two easiest ones to get rid of will be Joe, Jack and maybe Peter. The two/three players we probably don't want to get rid of. The rest have pretty much just got here on ripe contracts. Unless the reports above are true, and wages are slashed, they're staying here, of that we can be sure. I think a couple will automatically go, namely Diouf and Wimmer who've clearly have had enough of being here. Others, if their contracts have been organised "cleverly" are just going to sit around and bleed the club dry. We can pay their contracts up, so they're not cluttering up the thinking, which surely Saido is at times. However do we want to take a big hit on wages in one go, or drip feed it over the course of the next few years? We obviously need a much more robust transfer policy. We seem to be mugs for the 6-12M pound player. The nearly-men of the premiership. As evidence has been seen here in SOT, they're not good enough. Rolling around in their reputations and happy to do swing-all for their wages. Until we change the very basics of team management, then we will keep regressing. Even if Diouf is fed up being here, it will still require someone to invest in him, even if we give him a free, they will still have to pay his wages, so if "someone" doesn'y come, he could still be here for another year.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 16, 2019 5:26:35 GMT
Let's say we are third from bottom at Christmas. Do you think the "project" mentality will still be there. (From the owners perspective of course) It depends on the circumstances. Probably not if he’s well backed, everyone stays fit and his methods aren’t taking. If the performances are encouraging, even if the results don’t come immediately, he’ll be given time. In January, once again, we spent over ten million quid, again blowing everyone else in this league out of the water for monies spent. We will do the same this summer. Seriously, do you think Nathan won't be expected to hit the ground running next season and have us right up there in the promotion race? That is his job. That is the project
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 16, 2019 6:25:09 GMT
It depends on the circumstances. Probably not if he’s well backed, everyone stays fit and his methods aren’t taking. If the performances are encouraging, even if the results don’t come immediately, he’ll be given time. In January, once again, we spent over ten million quid, again blowing everyone else in this league out of the water for monies spent. We will do the same this summer. Seriously, do you think Nathan won't be expected to hit the ground running next season and have us right up there in the promotion race? That is his job. That is the project It depends what you mean by ‘hit the ground running’, doesn’t it? If we’re, say, 10th, and there are encouraging signs, are we saying that’s not good enough and he’ll be out on his arse? I think he’ll be backed but we won’t necessarily see enormous changes. Depending on who leaves I think we’ll see maybe another four in but not many more.
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