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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 15, 2019 13:03:24 GMT
I thought there was a further reduction in salaries having failed to gain promotion including those that remained on PL pay(Allen, Butland, Ryan, Bauer) surely the relegation reduction and failure reduction applies to those on loan? It would still be a huge amount to pay up in one foul swoop given we no longer have the tv money Agreed but we could offer Wimmer say 30% of his contract value, say Wimmers on 20k a week with 3 years left that would be circa a million quid to get rid. He’d be a free agent (could look for signing on fees and an immediate salary) and we’d be rid of a liability. I think no stone should be left unturned in trying to get rid of the deadwood
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:07:38 GMT
It would still be a huge amount to pay up in one foul swoop given we no longer have the tv money Agreed but we could offer Wimmer say 30% of his contract value, say Wimmers on 20k a week with 3 years left that would be circa a million quid to get rid. He’d be a free agent (could look for signing on fees and an immediate salary) and we’d be rid of a liability. I think no stone should be left unturned in trying to get rid of the deadwood Why would Wimmer agree to write off 70% of his contract though? He's never going to get a similar one again on current form......
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Post by werrington on Apr 15, 2019 13:08:40 GMT
It would still be a huge amount to pay up in one foul swoop given we no longer have the tv money Agreed but we could offer Wimmer say 30% of his contract value, say Wimmers on 20k a week with 3 years left that would be circa a million quid to get rid. He’d be a free agent (could look for signing on fees and an immediate salary) and we’d be rid of a liability. I think no stone should be left unturned in trying to get rid of the deadwood But that’s then one million pound that’s written off in regards team building and that’s only if the player agreed to take the hit He’d be well within his rights to say no
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Post by hooftastic on Apr 15, 2019 13:09:47 GMT
It would still be a huge amount to pay up in one foul swoop given we no longer have the tv money Agreed but we could offer Wimmer say 30% of his contract value, say Wimmers on 20k a week with 3 years left that would be circa a million quid to get rid. He’d be a free agent (could look for signing on fees and an immediate salary) and we’d be rid of a liability. I think no stone should be left unturned in trying to get rid of the deadwood He wont agree to that unless there is a club waiting in the wings.... and I dont think there will be
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:19:31 GMT
Agreed but we could offer Wimmer say 30% of his contract value, say Wimmers on 20k a week with 3 years left that would be circa a million quid to get rid. He’d be a free agent (could look for signing on fees and an immediate salary) and we’d be rid of a liability. I think no stone should be left unturned in trying to get rid of the deadwood He wont agree to that unless there is a club waiting in the wings.... and I dont think there will be He has some standing in Germany and Austria, so there could be clubs willing to take him, maybe even pay a nominal fee...but only if scfc continue to pay his wages - and they're not 20k, they're rumoured to be 70k.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 15, 2019 13:23:09 GMT
He wont agree to that unless there is a club waiting in the wings.... and I dont think there will be He has some standing in Germany and Austria, so there could be clubs willing to take him, maybe even pay a nominal fee...but only if scfc continue to pay his wages - and they're not 20k, they're rumoured to be 70k. Sentinel and John Percy suggested they largely had 40-50% drops upon relegation though. So feasible he's now on 35-40k. If he'd had a competent season at Hannover, could have been shiftable. As it is, it's been a bit of a nightmare. Whether someone would take a punt at £3m based on his Cologne form, who knows? At least his wages are now of the type that are more in line with Bundesliga-type levels, rather than ridiculous unaffordable Premier League bubble money
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:25:31 GMT
Ideally we would have followed a disciplinary process that would have enabled us to terminate for the likes of Berahino! But we didn't! So we can't take for granted that Berahino will be sacked.
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 15, 2019 13:28:10 GMT
He has some standing in Germany and Austria, so there could be clubs willing to take him, maybe even pay a nominal fee...but only if scfc continue to pay his wages - and they're not 20k, they're rumoured to be 70k. Sentinel and John Percy suggested they largely had 40-50% drops upon relegation though. So feasible he's now on 35-40k. If he'd had a competent season at Hannover, could have been shiftable. As it is, it's been a bit of a nightmare. Whether someone would take a punt at £3m, who knows? At least his wages are now of the type that are more in line with Bundesliga-type levels, rather than ridiculous unaffordable Premier League bubble money for average players. Can you confirm there was a further reduction with the failure of promotion FM, I'm sure I read it somewhere?
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Post by werrington on Apr 15, 2019 13:28:40 GMT
Ideally we would have followed a disciplinary process that would have enabled us to terminate for the likes of Berahino! But we didn't! So we can't take for granted that Berahino will be sacked. How didn’t we?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:30:09 GMT
He has some standing in Germany and Austria, so there could be clubs willing to take him, maybe even pay a nominal fee...but only if scfc continue to pay his wages - and they're not 20k, they're rumoured to be 70k. Sentinel and John Percy suggested they largely had 40-50% drops upon relegation though. So feasible he's now on 35-40k. If he'd had a competent season at Hannover, could have been shiftable. As it is, it's been a bit of a nightmare. Whether someone would take a punt at £3m based on his Cologne form, who knows? At least his wages are now of the type that are more in line with Bundesliga-type levels, rather than ridiculous unaffordable Premier League bubble money for average players. He's been playing for a relegation zone side all season. Very few players shine under those circumstances. So potential takers could put it down to being Hanover that's the nightmare. But, he certainly hasn't done anything to suggest that his nightmare halfseason at Stoke was a one-off.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 15, 2019 13:31:09 GMT
He wont agree to that unless there is a club waiting in the wings.... and I dont think there will be He has some standing in Germany and Austria, so there could be clubs willing to take him, maybe even pay a nominal fee...but only if scfc continue to pay his wages - and they're not 20k, they're rumoured to be 70k. Yeah you are right, when in the premier league they were rumoured to be c70-75k as you say. Then he's had a 30-40% wage drop, he actually decided to be paid "just" 30 or 35k so he could play regular football in germany. If there is another non promotion clause of 30-40% we'll be a lot closer to being able to shift him and others out. I do think Wimmer will consider there's more to life and be prepared to negotiate compared to the likes of NDiaye (we should really get a fee for him though) and Imbula.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:34:58 GMT
But we didn't! So we can't take for granted that Berahino will be sacked. How didn’t we? We didn't hand out written warnings when he turned up late repeatedly. So the only thing we can hang a sacking on is drink-driving, which might just be seen as a one off during his time at Stoke; enough to be a final warning, but not enough to justify a sacking. But all that will obviously depend on any court sentence. Let's hope it's a severe one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:36:33 GMT
We didn't hand out written warnings when he turned up late repeatedly. So the only thing we can hang a sacking on is drink-driving, which might just be seen as a one off during his time at Stoke; enough to be a final warning, but not enough to justify a sacking. But all that will obviously depend on any court sentence. Let's hope it's a severe one. How do you know we didn't?
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 15, 2019 13:37:22 GMT
Sentinel and John Percy suggested they largely had 40-50% drops upon relegation though. So feasible he's now on 35-40k. If he'd had a competent season at Hannover, could have been shiftable. As it is, it's been a bit of a nightmare. Whether someone would take a punt at £3m, who knows? At least his wages are now of the type that are more in line with Bundesliga-type levels, rather than ridiculous unaffordable Premier League bubble money for average players. Can you confirm there was a further reduction with the failure of promotion FM, I'm sure I read it somewhere? Nixon had a story suggesting that was the case for "some of the recent ones and a couple from previous years". But who knows what the whole story is. Hopefully, if true, it'll refer to some of the Rowett mob
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 15, 2019 13:38:12 GMT
I don't think shifting Afobe would be too difficult this summer, he's still highly rated in the championship but if he has another shit season it may be harder to shift.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:38:36 GMT
We didn't hand out written warnings when he turned up late repeatedly. So the only thing we can hang a sacking on is drink-driving, which might just be seen as a one off during his time at Stoke; enough to be a final warning, but not enough to justify a sacking. But all that will obviously depend on any court sentence. Let's hope it's a severe one. How do you know we didn't? It was stated in the press in the days after his date in London. It might have been Spinks who wrote that.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 15, 2019 13:42:20 GMT
I don't think shifting Afobe would be too difficult this summer, he's still highly rated in the championship but if he has another shit season it may be harder to shift. Agree, I think we are still some way off from being able to play a decent through ball so there's too much risk keeping him.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 15, 2019 13:44:21 GMT
I don't think shifting Afobe would be too difficult this summer, he's still highly rated in the championship but if he has another shit season it may be harder to shift. Hope you're right. I'm struggling to see who though. I bet we're the only club in this league that would have been prepared to hand him the deal he got last summer. Would imagine his wages are top, top Championship - the type not many Champ clubs would feel comfortable handing out on a long-term deal. A relegated club maybe on the off chance they think he's the one? And it'd also come with a hefty fee. Probably the same story with Ince, as good as his record in this league is
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Post by werrington on Apr 15, 2019 13:46:03 GMT
We didn't hand out written warnings when he turned up late repeatedly. So the only thing we can hang a sacking on is drink-driving, which might just be seen as a one off during his time at Stoke; enough to be a final warning, but not enough to justify a sacking. But all that will obviously depend on any court sentence. Let's hope it's a severe one. We are awaiting the court case He was pissed, drink driving and apparently tried to lie about his reasons for it and it’s that last bit the club are awaiting final confirmation on The fact it was a match day says it’s serious breach of contract ....he’s history but the club can’t jump the gun
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 15, 2019 14:00:21 GMT
Can you confirm there was a further reduction with the failure of promotion FM, I'm sure I read it somewhere? Nixon had a story suggesting that was the case for "some of the recent ones and a couple from previous years". But who knows what the whole story is. Hopefully, if true, it'll refer to some of the Rowett mob Cheers FM, thought I was going mad for second, been searching Sentinal site.....fuck me it's a shit site. I'm hoping it may also refer to some of our more difficult ones also
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 15, 2019 14:02:57 GMT
I don't think shifting Afobe would be too difficult this summer, he's still highly rated in the championship but if he has another shit season it may be harder to shift. Hope you're right. I'm struggling to see who though. I bet we're the only club in this league that would have been prepared to hand him the deal he got last summer. Would imagine his wages are top, top Championship - the type not many Champ clubs would feel comfortable handing out on a long-term deal. A relegated club maybe on the off chance they think he's the one? And it'd also come with a hefty fee. Probably the same story with Ince, as good as his record in this league is I think Ince is a similar story to Afobe, he'd have plenty of takers in the top half of championship and possibly even bottom of Prem. I do think Ince is a player we should keep though, it's clear he's a very decent championship player, we've just not got the best out of him. And before anyone mentions the diamond formation well I hope Jones sacks that off because that won't work here.
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 15, 2019 14:17:42 GMT
Hope you're right. I'm struggling to see who though. I bet we're the only club in this league that would have been prepared to hand him the deal he got last summer. Would imagine his wages are top, top Championship - the type not many Champ clubs would feel comfortable handing out on a long-term deal. A relegated club maybe on the off chance they think he's the one? And it'd also come with a hefty fee. Probably the same story with Ince, as good as his record in this league is I think Ince is a similar story to Afobe, he'd have plenty of takers in the top half of championship and possibly even bottom of Prem. I do think Ince is a player we should keep though, it's clear he's a very decent championship player, we've just not got the best out of him. And before anyone mentions the diamond formation well I hope Jones sacks that off because that won't work here. But without the promised diamond what has he got going for him?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 15, 2019 14:19:49 GMT
I think Ince is a similar story to Afobe, he'd have plenty of takers in the top half of championship and possibly even bottom of Prem. I do think Ince is a player we should keep though, it's clear he's a very decent championship player, we've just not got the best out of him. And before anyone mentions the diamond formation well I hope Jones sacks that off because that won't work here. But without the promised diamond what has he got going for him? Assists and goals. He's the only creative player in the whole squad.
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 15, 2019 14:23:35 GMT
But without the promised diamond what has he got going for him? Assists and goals. He's the only creative player in the whole squad. Sorry mate my reply was aimed at your last sentence, not Ince
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 15, 2019 14:28:07 GMT
Assists and goals. He's the only creative player in the whole squad. Sorry mate my reply was aimed at your last sentence, not Ince Ah, sorry. Well the answer to that question is not a lot, then again I didn't really think it was a good idea in the first place. I was happy to give him a chance mind.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 15, 2019 14:33:11 GMT
All his success has come with the diamond though.
It pretty much defines his whole coaching career. If you read any interviews about Luton, it's all about diamond this and diamond that - and he's obviously come to believe it's a bit of a cheat code with the right players
Can't believe for a second it won't be 100% diamond from pre-season on. He totally believes in it and he's achieved nothing at all without it. He won't feel he's being true to himself if he doesn't buy and sell this summer with that in mind.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 15, 2019 14:44:28 GMT
All his success has come with the diamond though. It pretty much defines his whole coaching career. If you read any interviews about Luton, it's all about diamond this and diamond that - and he's obviously come to believe it's a bit of a cheat code with the right players Can't believe for a second it won't be 100% diamond from pre-season on. He totally believes in it and he's achieved nothing at all without it. He won't feel he's being true to himself if he doesn't buy and sell this summer with that in mind. I've seen the diamond work in the lower leagues but does it really work in the top leagues? For it to work here he'd have to buy a whole new squad. You can probably answer the question better than me but who has used a diamond system in this league recently and got out of the division?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 15, 2019 14:47:16 GMT
All his success has come with the diamond though. It pretty much defines his whole coaching career. If you read any interviews about Luton, it's all about diamond this and diamond that - and he's obviously come to believe it's a bit of a cheat code with the right players Can't believe for a second it won't be 100% diamond from pre-season on. He totally believes in it and he's achieved nothing at all without it. He won't feel he's being true to himself if he doesn't buy and sell this summer with that in mind. I've seen the diamond work in the lower leagues but does it really work in the top leagues? You can probably answer the question better than me but who has used a diamond system in this league recently and got out of the division? Last one I can remember was Lambert with Norwich but that was a while back. That said, I can’t see a reason why it wouldn’t work with the right players?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 15, 2019 14:48:26 GMT
Agreed but we could offer Wimmer say 30% of his contract value, say Wimmers on 20k a week with 3 years left that would be circa a million quid to get rid. He’d be a free agent (could look for signing on fees and an immediate salary) and we’d be rid of a liability. I think no stone should be left unturned in trying to get rid of the deadwood Why would Wimmer agree to write off 70% of his contract though? He's never going to get a similar one again on current form...... No but if he got a million paid up immediately and another club prepared to pay him a signing on fee and lower wages he mightn’t be worse off at all
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 15, 2019 14:57:11 GMT
All his success has come with the diamond though. It pretty much defines his whole coaching career. If you read any interviews about Luton, it's all about diamond this and diamond that - and he's obviously come to believe it's a bit of a cheat code with the right players Can't believe for a second it won't be 100% diamond from pre-season on. He totally believes in it and he's achieved nothing at all without it. He won't feel he's being true to himself if he doesn't buy and sell this summer with that in mind. I've seen the diamond work in the lower leagues but does it really work in the top leagues? For it to work here he'd have to buy a whole new squad. You can probably answer the question better than me but who has used a diamond system in this league recently and got out of the division? Not many have even tried it really, have they? It's not been flavour of the month. As Rob says, Lambert did but that was ages ago now. But just can't believe it's not in his head to go with it as he associates it with all his success -and nothing he's seen not using it here will have changed his view! It'd be an interesting question to put to him in one of his press conferences instead of "have you tried an oatcake yet?"
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