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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Feb 21, 2019 15:31:12 GMT
I don't know why anyone would have wanted someone to come in and do ok with these players anyway. By far the best option is to try and get shot of them all and go in a completely different direction. The phrase 'papering over the cracks' wouldn't be strong enough.
I'm also sick of hearing that we have the strongest squad in the league on paper. Laughable! Nobody in our midfield can pass a ball! How are we the strongest?
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Post by Absolution on Feb 21, 2019 15:31:16 GMT
We don't know how good the current manager will be. ATM he is not doing it. For reasons that have been done to death.
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 21, 2019 16:42:52 GMT
Mate I said operated at the highest level not necessarily played. On paper we have got a premiership team playing in the championship and being managed by a league 1 manager, it is a total misfit. But what manager that has operated at the highest level is going to come to Stoke, especially after 3 years of mismanagement, and a team that has had 4 manager's in such a short space of time, I would not have minded Moyes, but maybe he was one who didn't fancy it, now I would much rather have NJ, a young up and coming manager who can see this as a project, and a manager who really wants to be here and succeed, he could have stayed at Luton, where he was loved by the fans, and would probably have got them up to be in the same division as us, but he took the hard decision to come to Stoke, upset all the Luton fans, to take on this project, I think that took guts and determination, and if he has faith in his own ability to succeed, then I am more than willing to give him the time to turn our great club around No hard decision when your getting a massive pay rise.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 21, 2019 17:07:45 GMT
But what manager that has operated at the highest level is going to come to Stoke, especially after 3 years of mismanagement, and a team that has had 4 manager's in such a short space of time, I would not have minded Moyes, but maybe he was one who didn't fancy it, now I would much rather have NJ, a young up and coming manager who can see this as a project, and a manager who really wants to be here and succeed, he could have stayed at Luton, where he was loved by the fans, and would probably have got them up to be in the same division as us, but he took the hard decision to come to Stoke, upset all the Luton fans, to take on this project, I think that took guts and determination, and if he has faith in his own ability to succeed, then I am more than willing to give him the time to turn our great club around No hard decision when your getting a massive pay rise. Of course there is. Money isn't the only consideration.
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Post by mrcoke on Feb 21, 2019 18:20:22 GMT
Why don't you open your mind and educate yourself. Read about how Ferguson and Clough started out in management. Some managers like Ramsay and Bobby Robson were able to start managing second tier teams where we are now, the very best started at the bottom of the leagues and worked their way up. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ferguson en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_CloughI would love to agree with you but managing players 50 years ago is apples and pears compared to motivating the millionaires you see on the pitch on a Saturday afternoon today. I disagree. yes times are different, but human nature is still the same. Much of what Herbert Chapman wrote in his book on football is now well out of date, but a remarkable amount of what he said in the 20s and 30s still applies. There is much research on motivation and hundreds of books on the subject. Motivation varies from individual to individual, some people cannot be motivated and employers will steer clear or remove, whilst at the other end of the scale some people are totally self motivated and an employers dream. Money is not a reliable motivator, but low pay is a de-motivator, particularly when the person's pay can be directly compared to an equivalent person. Most people can be motivated if their boss takes an interest in them, helps them improve, has an improvement plan/objectives, involves them in decision making, rewards success/good performance. It is not necessary to always resort to the "carrot and stick", and as you rightly point out "carrots and sticks" don't work well with people "who have got it all". The very best managers are those who establish a structure and system that "looks after itself" and where the employees keep doing "the right things" even in the managers absence. It appears that Jones has left such a set at Luton. I learnt a lot from a boss I had in the 80s. On one occasion when he was away on business in Japan and left me in charge, he was with the manager of another works, and met at breakfast. The other manager asked my boss how things were back at the my boss's works, to which my boss replied "I don't know." The other manager said "Don't to ring the works each day to check up on things?", to which my boss replied "If I had to do that I shouldn't be here."
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Post by southcoaststokie on Feb 21, 2019 18:39:23 GMT
No hard decision when your getting a massive pay rise. Of course there is. Money isn't the only consideration. Not everyone is just motivated by money, maybe NJ might have got a promotion bonus if he had got Luton up, and his stock in the game would have risen tremendously, against a possible failure at Stoke, he seems to be, and I hope he is, a very young, determined individual, who will work tirelessly to get to the top.
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 21, 2019 18:43:26 GMT
No hard decision when your getting a massive pay rise. Of course there is. Money isn't the only consideration. I beg to differ. There’s not many who turn more money down just the same as I wouldn’t.
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Post by AlliG on Feb 21, 2019 19:37:17 GMT
Of course there is. Money isn't the only consideration. I beg to differ. There’s not many who turn more money down just the same as I wouldn’t. This is the problem when you try and argue the point with someone who is solely motivated by money. They cannot believe that everyone else is not so motivated. During my working life while I had what I considered to be an adequately well paid job I also had 3 or 4 opportunities to move to London and double/triple my salary (some within the same company). For a variety of reasons (non of them money related) I decided to stay where I was and have never regretted those decisions. If I was a young up and coming manager (hoping for a long and successful career in football), while I would negotiate the best deal possible, I would be more likely to go to the club where I felt that I could achieve my ambitions (either short or long-term) rather than the one that paid best if I felt I could not succeed at that club
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 21, 2019 19:40:01 GMT
Of course there is. Money isn't the only consideration. I beg to differ. There’s not many who turn more money down just the same as I wouldn’t. Careers don’t hinge on money alone. He had it great where he was and if he’d got Luton up again his stock would’ve been even higher. He was loving his job and life there so we must have done a job convincing him that the timing was right to move, especially given the shit he was walking into.
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 21, 2019 20:52:24 GMT
I beg to differ. There’s not many who turn more money down just the same as I wouldn’t. This is the problem when you try and argue the point with someone who is solely motivated by money. They cannot believe that everyone else is not so motivated. During my working life while I had what I considered to be an adequately well paid job I also had 3 or 4 opportunities to move to London and double/triple my salary (some within the same company). For a variety of reasons (non of them money related) I decided to stay where I was and have never regretted those decisions. If I was a young up and coming manager (hoping for a long and successful career in football), while I would negotiate the best deal possible, I would be more likely to go to the club where I felt that I could achieve my ambitions (either short or long-term) rather than the one that paid best if I felt I could not succeed at that club Lol I’m not that bad but I wouldn’t mind a bit more.😂😂
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Post by neddy on Feb 21, 2019 21:35:57 GMT
We have to stop looking back, sort the crap and move forward it’s the only way. I think Nathan is struggling but we have to stick with him!!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 22, 2019 0:37:25 GMT
Only time will tell and although no one would disagree the start hasn’t been great, I don’t think any of us thought the mess was as bad and as engrained as it clearly is. Or maybe the mess isn't as bad as you think, have you thought the problem could be that we haven't recruited a manager good enough to deal with it.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 22, 2019 0:40:21 GMT
I don't know why anyone would have wanted someone to come in and do ok with these players anyway. By far the best option is to try and get shot of them all and go in a completely different direction. The phrase 'papering over the cracks' wouldn't be strong enough. I'm also sick of hearing that we have the strongest squad in the league on paper. Laughable! Nobody in our midfield can pass a ball! How are we the strongest? The midfield seemed OK to compete in the premier league when we had Whelan and Whitehead there, are you telling me Allen, Etebo and Woods are worse than whitehead?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 1:07:06 GMT
This is the problem when you try and argue the point with someone who is solely motivated by money. They cannot believe that everyone else is not so motivated. During my working life while I had what I considered to be an adequately well paid job I also had 3 or 4 opportunities to move to London and double/triple my salary (some within the same company). For a variety of reasons (non of them money related) I decided to stay where I was and have never regretted those decisions. If I was a young up and coming manager (hoping for a long and successful career in football), while I would negotiate the best deal possible, I would be more likely to go to the club where I felt that I could achieve my ambitions (either short or long-term) rather than the one that paid best if I felt I could not succeed at that club Lol I’m not that bad but I wouldn’t mind a bit more.😂😂 You get paid far too much as it is. I know that for a fact
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 22, 2019 1:18:06 GMT
Only time will tell and although no one would disagree the start hasn’t been great, I don’t think any of us thought the mess was as bad and as engrained as it clearly is. Or maybe the mess isn't as bad as you think, have you thought the problem could be that we haven't recruited a manager good enough to deal with it. No.
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 22, 2019 4:06:50 GMT
Lol I’m not that bad but I wouldn’t mind a bit more.😂😂 You get paid far too much as it is. I know that for a fact 😂😂😂
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Feb 22, 2019 7:51:55 GMT
I don't know why anyone would have wanted someone to come in and do ok with these players anyway. By far the best option is to try and get shot of them all and go in a completely different direction. The phrase 'papering over the cracks' wouldn't be strong enough. I'm also sick of hearing that we have the strongest squad in the league on paper. Laughable! Nobody in our midfield can pass a ball! How are we the strongest? The midfield seemed OK to compete in the premier league when we had Whelan and Whitehead there, are you telling me Allen, Etebo and Woods are worse than whitehead? Whitehead and Whelan were disciplined grafters who stuck to their jobs and allowed the better players to play. Allen, in particular, is a headless chicken, Etebo needs a more disciplined midfield alongside him and Woods seems to have the sideways passing ability of Whelan but none of the tackling and positional sense. The Whitehead and Whelan team were just that though: a team.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 22, 2019 7:56:22 GMT
Whitehead was crap. At no stage was he part of our best XI.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 22, 2019 9:38:16 GMT
Whitehead was crap. At no stage was he part of our best XI. So we're saying that our midfield now isn't actually any worse than it was when Whitehead and Whelan were our midfield in the premier league then?
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Feb 22, 2019 9:46:44 GMT
The job NJ has on his hands gets bigger by the day.
We now have current players, arguing with ex-players in broad view of the public.
Joke of a club, if I was NJ I'd run for the hills before this club drags him down with them.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 22, 2019 9:52:05 GMT
Whitehead was crap. At no stage was he part of our best XI. So we're saying that our midfield now isn't actually any worse than it was when Whitehead and Whelan were our midfield in the premier league then? I think it's more complex than that. I think to a man, pretty much every central midfielder on the books is a more talented footballer than Dean Whitehead. The difference is that in Pulis' team, everyone to a man knew their job and really not much was asked of the central midfielders other than being positionally disciplined and keeping it simple. They didn't even really need to worry about keeping the ball because 'possession' wasn't something we were particularly about. In this team, even at a lower level, there's more onus on the midfield to create, to probe, to break teams down and none of them are really especially adept at that. None of them are especially positionally disciplined and worst of all, not one of them seems to know what their job is. We don't seem to have the right blend for whatever it is we're trying to achieve, or even know what it is we're trying to achieve. If you could get Allen to go back to being the sideways passing metronome he was at Swansea, with Etebo being the whirling dervish alongside him and Bojan at the tip, I think we'd be getting there, but I still don't see anyone to sit at the base of the diamond and be the energetic yet disciplined shitkicking bastard needed there.
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Post by Gods on Feb 22, 2019 13:59:18 GMT
I don't know why anyone would have wanted someone to come in and do ok with these players anyway. By far the best option is to try and get shot of them all and go in a completely different direction. The phrase 'papering over the cracks' wouldn't be strong enough. I'm also sick of hearing that we have the strongest squad in the league on paper. Laughable! Nobody in our midfield can pass a ball! How are we the strongest? The midfield seemed OK to compete in the premier league when we had Whelan and Whitehead there, are you telling me Allen, Etebo and Woods are worse than whitehead? Weird isn't it? I don't care what anyone says but we simply should be winning far more games in this league with the players at our disposal. Nothing will change my mind on that.
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