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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 22:04:01 GMT
I read about our current lack of defensive structure, something Rowett is supposedly renowned for. I look at how defensively structured we were under Lambert in comparison,at a higher level. I look at the small number of fans prepared to defend the recruitment department by telling us the manager has the final say on signings and contracts. I look at the 5 year deal for Bauer. I look at the manager's comments on Bauer when he first joined. I look at how quick he has been bombed out and remained out. I remain confused when everything comes together. I await a reasonable explanation. I think I might be waiting some time. The reasonable explanation is he doesn't rate him, his comments, as mentioned above, weren't about his ability on the pitch how could they be, the contract is a different discussion entirely. That's an interesting angle. A new manager is normally at his strongest when he first walks through the door. If we're talking political, thinly veiled statements about a players ability here, then why was Bauer given a 5 year contract? Are we now back at that argument again where the manager is being walked all over by the recruitment department and being told what to do with Moritz Bauer, but happily allowed to sign the likes of Afobe, McClean, Ince et al for sums upwards of 25M+? We're not far off a situation where two argument points are contradicting each other.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 14, 2018 22:16:59 GMT
If it is based on ability then I guarantee that Martina will very swiftly make Rowett out to be a fool.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 14, 2018 22:22:46 GMT
He championed his attitude. Nothing said about his abilities or how he fitted into his team. Just ‘making all the right noises’. He said he had a good attitude and was willing to learn. Is Rowett admitting he can't teach? Or he can’t learn?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 15, 2018 0:13:32 GMT
He championed his attitude. Nothing said about his abilities or how he fitted into his team. Just ‘making all the right noises’. He said he had a good attitude and was willing to learn. Is Rowett admitting he can't teach? He won’t admit anything, he throws the players under the bus every week.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 15, 2018 0:14:57 GMT
There's no defending Rowett on this one. You've got players in Sheffield tonight who should have been at Villa Park and you have a player in Birmingham who even on the bench in Sheffield offers us variety at the very least. It's politics pure and simple and I wish those involved would just fuck off out of the club. Is it politics though? If it was, why was he allowed to sign another right back?
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Post by miltonstokienew on Sept 15, 2018 3:10:32 GMT
There's no defending Rowett on this one. You've got players in Sheffield tonight who should have been at Villa Park and you have a player in Birmingham who even on the bench in Sheffield offers us variety at the very least. It's politics pure and simple and I wish those involved would just fuck off out of the club. Is it politics though? If it was, why was he allowed to sign another right back? Every time I look at this board. Your having a 15 page debate with someone about some bullshit that doesn't even matter. How many notes do you make a match mate ? And what happened to your girlfriend ? Is there a correlation ?
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Sept 15, 2018 4:08:43 GMT
A defensive display today that leads a lot to be desired, and this should be the a question from a reporter with the bollocks to ask
"So Gary, what is your problem with Moritz & why won't you play him?"
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 15, 2018 6:55:42 GMT
Is it politics though? If it was, why was he allowed to sign another right back? Every time I look at this board. Your having a 15 page debate with someone about some bullshit that doesn't even matter. How many notes do you make a match mate ? And what happened to your girlfriend ? Is there a correlation ? She’s back on the scene actually mate. Thanks for asking. Delighted that you haven’t fallen off a roof yet by the way, so you can make your own valuable, memorable contributions on here.
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 15, 2018 7:05:47 GMT
Bauer is probably the best right back in the division and needs to be reinstalled in our first 11 now!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 7:11:21 GMT
Is it politics though? If it was, why was he allowed to sign another right back? Every time I look at this board. Your having a 15 page debate with someone about some bullshit that doesn't even matter. How many notes do you make a match mate ? And what happened to your girlfriend ? Is there a correlation ? As long as a poster falls in line with the rules then they can have 100 page debates every day if they wish.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 7:19:54 GMT
A defensive display today that leads a lot to be desired, and this should be the a question from a reporter with the bollocks to ask "So Gary, what is your problem with Moritz & why won't you play him?" Agreed So far Rowett doesn't know his best team or his best formation despite being the league's biggest spenders. What's going on?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 15, 2018 8:45:27 GMT
There's no defending Rowett on this one. You've got players in Sheffield tonight who should have been at Villa Park and you have a player in Birmingham who even on the bench in Sheffield offers us variety at the very least. It's politics pure and simple and I wish those involved would just fuck off out of the club. Is it politics though? If it was, why was he allowed to sign another right back? I think Martina was specifically sold to supporters as a utility player wasn't he? There was talk of him playing all across the back and even in midfield when he signed. Even so to completely ostracise Bauer from the first team and make him play with the kids goes way over and above a footballing decision. It's Politics, Rob and when you're not winning games its a dangerous game to play.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 15, 2018 8:59:14 GMT
Is it politics though? If it was, why was he allowed to sign another right back? I think Martina was specifically sold to supporters as a utility player wasn't he? There was talk of him playing all across the back and even in midfield when he signed. Even so to completely ostracise Bauer from the first team and make him play with the kids goes way over and above a footballing decision. It's Politics, Rob and when you're not winning games its a dangerous game to play. He’s clearly fallen out with Bauer and he clearly doesn’t fancy him as a player. I think that’s a mistake personally. Martina can be sold to fans as whatever, he’s a right back, we all knew it. When he was first linked, along with Simpson, it became clear he wanted a right back and he was allowed to sign one.
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 15, 2018 9:01:09 GMT
I think we will come good at one point under Rowett, but I'm not sure it will happen in time to challenge for automatic promotion. The playoff is probably more realistic, but it certainly will be difficult to leave any of Woods, Etebo, Allen or Clucas out of the team. I really struggle to see them all play at the same time though, and will this be satisfactory to any of them? I also hope that he will bring Bauer back to the first 11 and that he keeps playing Shawcross and Indi as our central defence pairing. I'm not a big fan of Pieters either despite him scoring two goals already. Not sure Martina is a better option though and have never seen Clucas at left back so maybe Pieters still will get the nod. I certainly want Ince on one of the wings, and McClean had really started to improve after a disasterous start as well. Still uncertain if he is the answer though. I also want to see Bojan and Afobe play, but I know this might be a bit unfair to Berahino right now. It's good to have competition for places, but then it really needs to be a healthy competition where everybody gets their chance to show their value to the team. I still feel some players will get picked no matter how they play which certainly isn't healthy competition as I see it.
My preferred team when everybody is fit:
...........................Butland............................ Bauer.............Shawcross.......Indi............Pieters/Clucas/Martina? (one place where it's hard to pick the right one!) .......................Etebo....Woods......................... Ince.......................Bojan.....................McClean ...........................Afobe.............................
Subs (a pick from): Federici, Williams, Martina, Clucas, Allen, Berahino, Diouf, Crouch.
Edwards needs to be loaned out for the rest of the season to gain more experience, the same for Sørensen, Tymon and Campbell.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 15, 2018 9:01:20 GMT
Is it politics though? If it was, why was he allowed to sign another right back? I think Martina was specifically sold to supporters as a utility player wasn't he? There was talk of him playing all across the back and even in midfield when he signed. Even so to completely ostracise Bauer from the first team and make him play with the kids goes way over and above a footballing decision. It's Politics, Rob and when you're not winning games its a dangerous game to play. Don't think those claims of 'versatility' really passed the smell test though, Momo. He hadn't played in the middle since his days in Holland as a youngster, and had only played 15 games at left-back under Allardyce because there was literally no-one else on the books - and that was the first time he'd played there in his career. I do think it's possible he just doesn't rate him at all. And if you read the comments of his old Russian manager about him having zero positional awareness even after 200 games, it's not totally unbelievable. Of course, the Pizza Boy decision to upgrade his 4-year deal on Championship money to a 5-year deal back on Prem money doesn't exactly look a winner in light of that.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 15, 2018 9:06:31 GMT
I'm not buying it fellas, there's far more at work here than a pure footballing decision.
If it is a pure footballing decision then Rowett may be an even more worrying manager than I already consider him to be.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 17, 2018 14:37:41 GMT
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Post by scfc5 on Sept 17, 2018 14:51:10 GMT
I think we will come good at one point under Rowett, but I'm not sure it will happen in time to challenge for automatic promotion. The playoff is probably more realistic, but it certainly will be difficult to leave any of Woods, Etebo, Allen or Clucas out of the team. I really struggle to see them all play at the same time though, and will this be satisfactory to any of them? I also hope that he will bring Bauer back to the first 11 and that he keeps playing Shawcross and Indi as our central defence pairing. I'm not a big fan of Pieters either despite him scoring two goals already. Not sure Martina is a better option though and have never seen Clucas at left back so maybe Pieters still will get the nod. I certainly want Ince on one of the wings, and McClean had really started to improve after a disasterous start as well. Still uncertain if he is the answer though. I also want to see Bojan and Afobe play, but I know this might be a bit unfair to Berahino right now. It's good to have competition for places, but then it really needs to be a healthy competition where everybody gets their chance to show their value to the team. I still feel some players will get picked no matter how they play which certainly isn't healthy competition as I see it. My preferred team when everybody is fit: ...........................Butland............................ Bauer.............Shawcross.......Indi............Pieters/Clucas/Martina? (one place where it's hard to pick the right one!) .......................Etebo....Woods......................... Ince.......................Bojan.....................McClean ...........................Afobe............................. Subs (a pick from): Federici, Williams, Martina, Clucas, Allen, Berahino, Diouf, Crouch. Edwards needs to be loaned out for the rest of the season to gain more experience, the same for Sørensen, Tymon and Campbell. We have to have one of our home grown in the 18 each game, which is why I presume Edwards over Bauer on the bench at the moment.
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 17, 2018 15:24:50 GMT
I think we will come good at one point under Rowett, but I'm not sure it will happen in time to challenge for automatic promotion. The playoff is probably more realistic, but it certainly will be difficult to leave any of Woods, Etebo, Allen or Clucas out of the team. I really struggle to see them all play at the same time though, and will this be satisfactory to any of them? I also hope that he will bring Bauer back to the first 11 and that he keeps playing Shawcross and Indi as our central defence pairing. I'm not a big fan of Pieters either despite him scoring two goals already. Not sure Martina is a better option though and have never seen Clucas at left back so maybe Pieters still will get the nod. I certainly want Ince on one of the wings, and McClean had really started to improve after a disasterous start as well. Still uncertain if he is the answer though. I also want to see Bojan and Afobe play, but I know this might be a bit unfair to Berahino right now. It's good to have competition for places, but then it really needs to be a healthy competition where everybody gets their chance to show their value to the team. I still feel some players will get picked no matter how they play which certainly isn't healthy competition as I see it. My preferred team when everybody is fit: ...........................Butland............................ Bauer.............Shawcross.......Indi............Pieters/Clucas/Martina? (one place where it's hard to pick the right one!) .......................Etebo....Woods......................... Ince.......................Bojan.....................McClean ...........................Afobe............................. Subs (a pick from): Federici, Williams, Martina, Clucas, Allen, Berahino, Diouf, Crouch. Edwards needs to be loaned out for the rest of the season to gain more experience, the same for Sørensen, Tymon and Campbell. We have to have one of our home grown in the 18 each game, which is why I presume Edwards over Bauer on the bench at the moment. Maybe, but he shouldn't be on the bench, but in the starting 11.
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Post by redstriper on Sept 17, 2018 15:57:15 GMT
Unlike most on here I think GR is very close to getting us back on track and I'm backing him. But the one and only thing I am really unhappy about is Bauer. Why he is carrying the can for the collective failure in the first couple of games is a mystery, unfair, downright wrong. As Momo says there has to be more to it, because it cannot be based on ability.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 17, 2018 16:02:32 GMT
Unlike most on here I think GR is very close to getting us back on track and I'm backing him. But the one and only thing I am really unhappy about is Bauer. Why he is carrying the can for the collective failure in the first couple of games is a mystery, unfair, downright wrong. As Momo says there has to be more to it, because it cannot be based on ability. If thats what it is and i'm not sure it is, but if so its because we can replace him, the others we don't have replacements for, Williams has come in but we all know how that went and we don't have another left back, personally I think its because he can't defend.
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 17, 2018 16:04:38 GMT
Unlike most on here I think GR is very close to getting us back on track and I'm backing him. But the one and only thing I am really unhappy about is Bauer. Why he is carrying the can for the collective failure in the first couple of games is a mystery, unfair, downright wrong. As Momo says there has to be more to it, because it cannot be based on ability. I'm not convinced this is right. I just think he doesn't trust him defensively and Edwards has to prioritise over him on the bench because of the home grown rule, which makes it look worse. Of course it begs the question, why Bauer when there are other defensive weaknesses. Well, he is not now in a position to change his whole defence, he seemingly has more trust in Shawcross and Indi based on their experience and with Williams has a third option, and he now has Martina whose strongest position is right back. I think it looks worst than it is because Bauer is now stuck in the under-23 and will remain there until Martina screws up or gets injured.
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Post by Absolution on Sept 17, 2018 16:07:21 GMT
Dropping him to the bench would look like the kind of call all managers have to make. Sending him to the U-23s looks like a punishment to me.
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Post by superpej on Sept 17, 2018 16:09:05 GMT
My preferred team when everybody is fit:
...........................Butland............................ Bauer.............Shawcross.......Indi............Pieters/Clucas/Martina? (one place where it's hard to pick the right one!) .......................Etebo....Woods......................... Ince.......................Bojan.....................McClean ...........................Afobe.............................
Subs (a pick from): Federici, Williams, Martina, Clucas, Allen, Berahino, Diouf, Crouch.
Stares you in the face but the boss can't see it
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 17, 2018 16:11:02 GMT
A defensive display today that leads a lot to be desired, and this should be the a question from a reporter with the bollocks to ask "So Gary, what is your problem with Moritz & why won't you play him?" Agreed So far Rowett doesn't know his best team or his best formation despite being the league's biggest spenders. What's going on? I suspect that question will never be fully answered here, regardless of its relevance. It is still a very frustrating situation
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 17, 2018 16:18:27 GMT
Dropping him to the bench would look like the kind of call all managers have to make. Sending him to the U-23s looks like a punishment to me. See posts above. At the moment Edwards has to be on the bench in front of MB because we have to have 1 home grown player on the bench, and the manager thinks he is our best and most useful home grown player at present. Everybody is jumping around screaming about him playing for U-23s but there is a logic to it, if he isn't judged to be the best option for the first 11
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 17, 2018 16:20:44 GMT
My preferred team when everybody is fit: ...........................Butland............................ Bauer.............Shawcross.......Indi............Pieters/Clucas/Martina? (one place where it's hard to pick the right one!) .......................Etebo....Woods......................... Ince.......................Bojan.....................McClean ...........................Afobe............................. Subs (a pick from): Federici, Williams, Martina, Clucas, Allen, Berahino, Diouf, Crouch. Stares you in the face but the boss can't see it This line-up is not possible and would mean we would be breaking League rules, so you can fantasise all you want!!!
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 17, 2018 16:37:04 GMT
If the manager thinks he has got 11 players better than Bauer he damn well better get his team promoted: anything less will be abject failure.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 17, 2018 16:53:47 GMT
It's hard to say who he should be on the bench ahead of though, once you've made the very big call to use an expensive loan on Martina and that he's going to start. Edwards is apparently the only u21 he thinks justifies a place on there. Federici Edwards (club-developed) Williams Fletcher Bojan Crouch Berahino And I like Bauer - but it is worth mentioning again this assessment from his manager in Russia - and also noting that Lambert decided to rely on Glen Johnson, who is now effectively retired, ahead of him. russianfootballnews.com/an-interview-with-kurban-berdyev-part-two-moritz-bauer-is-very-professional-but-hes-got-huge-shortcomings/Looking from the outside, Moritz Bauer looks like the most professional player. Is that true? (The interview was conducted a few days before several players mentioned below left the club.)Yes, he’s very professional. But football-wise, he’s got some huge shortcomings. There was a time when I finally lost my patience with him. I asked him, before everyone’s eyes, “Moritz, the ball is here, here’s the situation, where should you be?” “Here.” “Are you sure?” “I am sure.” Then I play the video, and he’s standing in a totally different place, and we get a goal from his zone.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 17, 2018 17:18:31 GMT
It's hard to say who he should be on the bench ahead of though, once you've made the very big call to use an expensive loan on Martina and that he's going to start. Edwards is apparently the only u21 he thinks justifies a place on there. Federici Edwards (club-developed) Williams Fletcher Bojan Crouch Berahino And I like Bauer - but it is worth mentioning again this assessment from his manager in Russia - and also noting that Lambert decided to rely on Glen Johnson, who is now effectively retired, ahead of him. russianfootballnews.com/an-interview-with-kurban-berdyev-part-two-moritz-bauer-is-very-professional-but-hes-got-huge-shortcomings/Looking from the outside, Moritz Bauer looks like the most professional player. Is that true? (The interview was conducted a few days before several players mentioned below left the club.)Yes, he’s very professional. But football-wise, he’s got some huge shortcomings. There was a time when I finally lost my patience with him. I asked him, before everyone’s eyes, “Moritz, the ball is here, here’s the situation, where should you be?” “Here.” “Are you sure?” “I am sure.” Then I play the video, and he’s standing in a totally different place, and we get a goal from his zone. My big issue is Fletcher being on there
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