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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 25, 2018 7:05:35 GMT
Just what are the FA asking him that he says yes to? I suspect that for the salary the England manager is paid and the revenue at stake, the FA expect compromise on squad selection and PR (no divisive characters who tweet about choc ices, no Shawcross in 2014, run a few decisions by major sponsors etc) and everyone goes home rich. To optimise the gravy train, they need a "yes man" which I guess is why Brian Clough, Harry Redknapp and Jack Charlton were never given the job. I've no way of proving it of course, but for what it's worth I bet if a major sponsor complained about Raheem Sterling's tattoo then there'd be a meeting about it involving Southgate. The likes of Redknapp, a good earner though he was, might tell them where to go. Sadly, I'm sceptical about the motives of those who govern football at the best of times. Are you suggesting there was an FA campaign to not pick Shawcross in 2014?
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Post by Will_75 on Jun 25, 2018 9:04:15 GMT
For the first time since possibly Glenn Hoddle we have a manager who has settled on a system, and picks in-form players to suit it, rather than shoe-horning all the big names in and hoping for the best.
I like his quiet determination, and the calming efect he clearly has on the players, and I like his faith in youth. I like the fact that he used friendlies properly, trying a few systems and ditching the ones that didn't work.
He also, as someone was saying the radio the other day, has a deep understanding of tournament football, on and off the pitch.
And no, I didn't think he was the man for the job either. But it's to his huge credit that he's proving a lot of people wrong. I mean, the thought of swapping him for Big Sam now gives me cold sweats.
Whatever happens from here on in, I've stopped saying "oh fuck off England" every ten seconds during games. Which is really something.
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Southgate
Jun 25, 2018 9:55:10 GMT
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 25, 2018 9:55:10 GMT
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Southgate
Jun 25, 2018 10:22:34 GMT
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Jun 25, 2018 10:22:34 GMT
For the past decade we haven't had the quality to seriously challenge for any tournament. Southgate has got them playing with freedom and the team seems to be actually enjoying playing on that stage and playing together.
What England have needed to do in recent memory is just go out there, have fun and bloody some noses.
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Post by vahl on Jun 25, 2018 10:26:59 GMT
Something about him I’m not sure on. Think he is a stero typical FA yes man. Not really been under any major pressure yet and as much as today’s result was great, I will reserve judgement until we face better opposition. He hasn’t been a yes man though has he? He’s made some big calls and been ruthless with some of the players he’s got rid of. Agreed. The removal of Wayne Rooney & Joe Hart, the insistence on playing preferred formations over preferred players etc.
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Post by Pricey on Jun 25, 2018 10:50:30 GMT
He hasn't really put a foot wrong...
BUT:
- We play a decent team on Thursday with players who will test our system and players, particularly the defence who will need to concentrate and execute better than they have so far. I imagine it's obvious to Southgate and Holland there are glaring errors in Walker-Stones-Maguire (or indeed any back three/four we can put out) and it may only be a matter of time before something shambolic happens. This does, however, need to be put into the context of the way football has gone over the last few years; even the best teams look like making mistakes at the back (see Man City, Real Madrid, PSG et al at club level).
- He hasn't had to make alterations to the system or team during a big game to alter the pattern of play and affect momentum change to drag us to a result. We're about to find out if he has the ability to do that as the matches get tougher.
Overall: big thumbs up. He almost certainly knows all of the above and is more than happy with the work done to give us the best chance of progressing deep into the tournament.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jun 25, 2018 10:53:55 GMT
As well as being a nice guy, getting the team playing with confidence and having an overall philosophy I really like this attention to detail. Some of the calls he has made are bordering on genius, that no other managers would have dared with.
- Tripper as wing-back and taking corners and free-kicks: His delivery has lead to about 4 or 5 goals already - Set-pieces in general: We are a genuine threat, which Southgate has targeted to exploit - Making Kane captain: It seems to have raised him to another level - Playing 3 at the back: Gives us lots of options and ways to attack through the middle or out wide - Having 1 or 2 holding midfielders depending on the opposition
I hope he has a few more tricks up his sleeve. Surely now our opponents will be aware of our corners being placed on the penalty spot by Tripper.
Our gameplan is elegantly simple and clear for all to see.
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Post by Pricey on Jun 25, 2018 11:07:34 GMT
As well as being a nice guy, getting the team playing with confidence and having an overall philosophy I really like this attention to detail. Some of the calls he has made are bordering on genius, that no other managers would have dared with. - Tripper as wing-back and taking corners and free-kicks: His delivery has lead to about 4 or 5 goals already - Set-pieces in general: We are a genuine threat, which Southgate has targeted to exploit - Making Kane captain: It seems to have raised him to another level - Playing 3 at the back: Gives us lots of options and ways to attack through the middle or out wide - Having 1 or 2 holding midfielders depending on the opposition I hope he has a few more tricks up his sleeve. Surely now our opponents will be aware of our corners being placed on the penalty spot by Tripper. Our gameplan is elegantly simple and clear for all to see. It actually reminds me a bit of us under Pulis for the first few years in the Prem. It took a lot of teams a long time to work our set piece domination. I think we're fine. It's not like Trippier putting corners on the penalty spot won't be flexible. I wish we'd have saved the Tripper>Henderson>Kane>Sterling free-kick with Stones and RLC backing up for later in the tournament though: that was perfect and made me think of the Walters goal at West Ham when half our team had a "job" to make the goal possible. When it went back to the studio at half-time yesterday and they were talking about the "best" goal being Lingard's I was shaking my head. All about that free-kick.
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Southgate
Jun 25, 2018 11:25:06 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Jun 25, 2018 11:25:06 GMT
He hasn't really put a foot wrong... BUT: - We play a decent team on Thursday with players who will test our system and players, particularly the defence who will need to concentrate and execute better than they have so far. I imagine it's obvious to Southgate and Holland there are glaring errors in Walker-Stones-Maguire (or indeed any back three/four we can put out) and it may only be a matter of time before something shambolic happens. This does, however, need to be put into the context of the way football has gone over the last few years; even the best teams look like making mistakes at the back (see Man City, Real Madrid, PSG et al at club level). - He hasn't had to make alterations to the system or team during a big game to alter the pattern of play and affect momentum change to drag us to a result. We're about to find out if he has the ability to do that as the matches get tougher. Overall: big thumbs up. He almost certainly knows all of the above and is more than happy with the work done to give us the best chance of progressing deep into the tournament. Even Thursday won't be a test. It'll be a stroll around. A qualified team who also won't risk injuries or bookings.
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Post by Pricey on Jun 25, 2018 11:28:09 GMT
He hasn't really put a foot wrong... BUT: - We play a decent team on Thursday with players who will test our system and players, particularly the defence who will need to concentrate and execute better than they have so far. I imagine it's obvious to Southgate and Holland there are glaring errors in Walker-Stones-Maguire (or indeed any back three/four we can put out) and it may only be a matter of time before something shambolic happens. This does, however, need to be put into the context of the way football has gone over the last few years; even the best teams look like making mistakes at the back (see Man City, Real Madrid, PSG et al at club level). - He hasn't had to make alterations to the system or team during a big game to alter the pattern of play and affect momentum change to drag us to a result. We're about to find out if he has the ability to do that as the matches get tougher. Overall: big thumbs up. He almost certainly knows all of the above and is more than happy with the work done to give us the best chance of progressing deep into the tournament. Even Thursday won't be a test. It'll be a stroll around. Yeah, I'm a bit worried we won't be tested until a quarter or semi against a decent team and it'll all come crashing down (see Brazil, 2014) but I'm also quietly hoping for a Spain vs Portugal-style slugfest on Thursday; mainly because it's going to be a pain in the arse for me to try and get the evening off work later!
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 25, 2018 12:23:57 GMT
Just what are the FA asking him that he says yes to? I suspect that for the salary the England manager is paid and the revenue at stake, the FA expect compromise on squad selection and PR (no divisive characters who tweet about choc ices, no Shawcross in 2014, run a few decisions by major sponsors etc) and everyone goes home rich. To optimise the gravy train, they need a "yes man" which I guess is why Brian Clough, Harry Redknapp and Jack Charlton were never given the job. I've no way of proving it of course, but for what it's worth I bet if a major sponsor complained about Raheem Sterling's tattoo then there'd be a meeting about it involving Southgate. The likes of Redknapp, a good earner though he was, might tell them where to go. Sadly, I'm sceptical about the motives of those who govern football at the best of times. The first thing he did was give Rooney the boot - the single most high profile player we had. Plus he didn't even want the job, the FA had to persuade him after Allardyce.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 25, 2018 12:26:12 GMT
As well as being a nice guy, getting the team playing with confidence and having an overall philosophy I really like this attention to detail. Some of the calls he has made are bordering on genius, that no other managers would have dared with. - Tripper as wing-back and taking corners and free-kicks: His delivery has lead to about 4 or 5 goals already - Set-pieces in general: We are a genuine threat, which Southgate has targeted to exploit - Making Kane captain: It seems to have raised him to another level - Playing 3 at the back: Gives us lots of options and ways to attack through the middle or out wide - Having 1 or 2 holding midfielders depending on the opposition I hope he has a few more tricks up his sleeve. Surely now our opponents will be aware of our corners being placed on the penalty spot by Tripper. Our gameplan is elegantly simple and clear for all to see. It actually reminds me a bit of us under Pulis for the first few years in the Prem. It took a lot of teams a long time to work our set piece domination. I think we're fine. It's not like Trippier putting corners on the penalty spot won't be flexible. I wish we'd have saved the Tripper>Henderson>Kane>Sterling free-kick with Stones and RLC backing up for later in the tournament though: that was perfect and made me think of the Walters goal at West Ham when half our team had a "job" to make the goal possible. When it went back to the studio at half-time yesterday and they were talking about the "best" goal being Lingard's I was shaking my head. All about that free-kick. The best goal was Lingards by a mile. Good build up, excellent skill and link up between Lingard and Sterling and a brilliant finish.
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Southgate
Jun 25, 2018 12:53:03 GMT
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 25, 2018 12:53:03 GMT
Re: defensive concerns, we won't be playing the same way against Belgium et al as we have done against Tunisia and Panama.
The way to beat these sides is often to take risks at the back and negate the defensive side of the game at the expense of being more attacking. This is something we have failed to grasp in previous tournaments.
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Jun 25, 2018 13:06:57 GMT
Decided on a plan.
Picked players to fit the plan.
Played to the plan in the pre tournament friendlies
Because of the above his players look like they know their job. Ok, there is a howler in them, but thats international football. Ver difficult to iron out a new shape in 12 months.
Great set pieces so far, big plus.
come across really well for me.
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Post by vahl on Jun 25, 2018 13:07:39 GMT
Re: defensive concerns, we won't be playing the same way against Belgium et al as we have done against Tunisia and Panama. The way to beat these sides is often to take risks at the back and negate the defensive side of the game at the expense of being more attacking. This is something we have failed to grasp in previous tournaments. Belgium are probably going to rest Lukaku, De Bruyne & Mertens, from what I've read. I think the boys who can come in for us will be better than the boys who come in for Belgium.
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Post by westgatelakes on Jun 25, 2018 13:26:06 GMT
my only concern is his love for Raheem Sterling - although he had a good season for Man City, I really don`t see him as an international player and cannot recall when he last played well for England. Much rather he picked either Rashford or Vardy to play alongside Kane.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 25, 2018 13:30:11 GMT
my only concern is his love for Raheem Sterling - although he had a good season for Man City, I really don`t see him as an international player and cannot recall when he last played well for England. Much rather he picked either Rashford or Vardy to play alongside Kane. Try yesterday!
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Post by westgatelakes on Jun 25, 2018 14:10:17 GMT
you`re entitled to your opinion........I`ll stick to mine !
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Post by burge2u on Jun 25, 2018 15:14:35 GMT
Decided on a plan. Picked players to fit the plan. Played to the plan in the pre tournament friendlies Because of the above his players look like they know their job. Ok, there is a howler in them, but thats international football. Ver difficult to iron out a new shape in 12 months. Great set pieces so far, big plus. come across really well for me. .......... That's all well & good, but whatever happened to the master plan of having Harry Kane taking corners?
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Southgate
Jun 25, 2018 16:31:00 GMT
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Post by Veritas on Jun 25, 2018 16:31:00 GMT
Decided on a plan. Picked players to fit the plan. Played to the plan in the pre tournament friendlies Because of the above his players look like they know their job. Ok, there is a howler in them, but thats international football. Ver difficult to iron out a new shape in 12 months. Great set pieces so far, big plus. come across really well for me. I largely agree but remember this is England and he is just one poor performance away from the press and most of the public turning on him and his squad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 17:02:55 GMT
Decided on a plan. Picked players to fit the plan. Played to the plan in the pre tournament friendlies Because of the above his players look like they know their job. Ok, there is a howler in them, but thats international football. Ver difficult to iron out a new shape in 12 months. Great set pieces so far, big plus. come across really well for me. I largely agree but remember this is England and he is just one poor performance away from the press and most of the public turning on him and his squad. I don't think he is. I think he's bought himself time. People can see what we're trying to do.
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Southgate
Jun 25, 2018 17:21:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 17:21:11 GMT
Last couple of games he’s gone straight upto the England fans giving it the big come on. Belts out the national anthem with all his mite and sends a team out that tries to score goals and wins games.
I’m behind the lad. You can only work with the players you have at your disposal and IMO he’s doing alright.
#itscominghome
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Post by Mendicant on Jun 25, 2018 17:46:35 GMT
I suspect that for the salary the England manager is paid and the revenue at stake, the FA expect compromise on squad selection and PR (no divisive characters who tweet about choc ices, no Shawcross in 2014, run a few decisions by major sponsors etc) and everyone goes home rich. To optimise the gravy train, they need a "yes man" which I guess is why Brian Clough, Harry Redknapp and Jack Charlton were never given the job. I've no way of proving it of course, but for what it's worth I bet if a major sponsor complained about Raheem Sterling's tattoo then there'd be a meeting about it involving Southgate. The likes of Redknapp, a good earner though he was, might tell them where to go. Sadly, I'm sceptical about the motives of those who govern football at the best of times. Are you suggesting there was an FA campaign to not pick Shawcross in 2014? Yes.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 26, 2018 7:11:33 GMT
Are you suggesting there was an FA campaign to not pick Shawcross in 2014? Yes. Is it not more likely that the manager just didn't rate him?
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Southgate
Jun 26, 2018 7:17:49 GMT
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 26, 2018 7:17:49 GMT
Are you suggesting there was an FA campaign to not pick Shawcross in 2014? Yes. What evidence are you basing that on?
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Post by neilb987 on Jun 26, 2018 9:48:34 GMT
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Post by neilb987 on Jun 26, 2018 9:50:23 GMT
Harry Kane's corners?
Thankfully consigned to the dustbin of tactical history!
Wonder if we have an alternative corner tactic to Trippier's otherwise excellent ones ...?
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Southgate
Jun 26, 2018 10:07:30 GMT
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Post by mallorcanstokie on Jun 26, 2018 10:07:30 GMT
What’s obvious about football, and this board in particular shows, is that you can’t please everybody all of the time, but Southgate has managed to please a lot of people a lot of the time. After the shambolic Euros we’ve already done better than many people expected, admittedly we’ve hardly been tested yet but hey, enjoy it while it’s good .
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jun 26, 2018 10:15:23 GMT
What’s obvious about football, and this board in particular shows, is that you can’t please everybody all of the time, but Southgate has managed to please a lot of people a lot of the time. After the shambolic Euros we’ve already done better than many people expected, admittedly we’ve hardly been tested yet but hey, enjoy it while it’s good . Wait until we get dumped out in the next round and The Sun starts piling on the team and calling them losers. Whatever happens from here on, it has been a pleasure watching England this World Cup. Even my colleagues (mainly Dutch as I work in Amsterdam) are noting how different this England team plays and saying we look one of the best in the competition
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 26, 2018 10:43:21 GMT
Is it not more likely that the manager just didn't rate him? And subsequent managers!
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