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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 13, 2018 20:38:02 GMT
You're guessing it was him and nothing else, I've seen the quotes about a done deal etc, but as far as we know there's more to it, club pissing about, players agent pissing about, we don't know it's guess work. Edit: if he's as crap as some people say he is then why is he still in a job, he fucks up every five minutes apparently, I'm sure Coates would have cottoned on by now if it was the case. There shouldn't have been anything else. We clearly didn't have a deal set in stone did we? He didn't cotton on to Hughes being wank did he? In fact he was massively arrogant and condescending about it and said he couldn't see the fuss. So yeah I'll pass on trusting him. Maybe they jumped the gun, it happens we aren't the first and won't be the last, yeh Hughes stayed a while but people have been on Scholes back for a lot longer with nothing to actually back it up.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 13, 2018 20:40:09 GMT
Guessing? Him and the then manager are quoted saying we had a deal agreed for the summer. There's no guessing, he fucked it up somewhere. You're guessing it was him and nothing else, I've seen the quotes about a done deal etc, but as far as we know there's more to it, club pissing about, players agent pissing about, we don't know it's guess work. Edit: if he's as crap as some people say he is then why is he still in a job, he fucks up every five minutes apparently, I'm sure Coates would have cottoned on by now if it was the case. You're talking about a man who doesn't "know what all the fuss is about".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 20:40:23 GMT
By the way, I trust our unbelievably successful owners to recognise when a CEO needs replacing. I trust their judgement. Who do you consider to be our owner/s? Denise Coates.
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Post by shotgunpete on Jan 13, 2018 20:40:54 GMT
A guy who I see at kids football seen Scholes at a business function n describe fuller as a “genius “ that’s as how far Is football knowledge goes ,I loved fuller but he was know messi or Ronaldo He probably thinks Fuller is still in the squad!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 13, 2018 20:42:08 GMT
There shouldn't have been anything else. We clearly didn't have a deal set in stone did we? He didn't cotton on to Hughes being wank did he? In fact he was massively arrogant and condescending about it and said he couldn't see the fuss. So yeah I'll pass on trusting him. Maybe they jumped the gun, it happens we aren't the first and won't be the last, yeh Hughes stayed a while but people have been on Scholes back for a lot longer with nothing to actually back it up. So why say it? And say it over a period of months from him signing? 😂😂
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Post by maliciousdamage on Jan 13, 2018 20:44:33 GMT
Those saying it's not his fault Well, let's look at the facts Peter sent Scholes to "seal the deal" so to speak. It was verbally agreed, but not signed. So, who's fault is that exactly? Scholes should have had his NatWest fucking banking app, his card reader at the ready, and when Sanches said yes. He should have rang Espanyol, transferred the 4 million. Got Qique to sign the prepared managerial contract's, and unveiled him today But no. Scholes presumably said, ah great! Thanks for verbally agreeing to become our new manager, I'll pop back tomorrow with the contracts to sign. Fucking wank Tony. Wank ! This is so so right, when you have a deal sealed get it signed there and then!!
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 13, 2018 20:48:23 GMT
Who do you consider to be our owner/s? Denise Coates. Exactly. A woman who hates football, has no affection for stoke city because of how the supporters treated her dad last time and who is using her huge wealth to indulge both her brother and father. Neither peter coates nor Jon coates are hugely successful.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Jan 13, 2018 20:53:46 GMT
Another deal he's failed to close when everything is agreed. What more do we need to know? It happens way too often. He's a joke. Scholes can't control everything, if he's changed his mind there's nothing you can do. This correct however if he's definitely for it and then he met to sign the deal somewhere he didn't actually sign and I'd imagine that 24 hrs period gave Espanyol the chance to bend his ear back to them if he'd have been asked to sign the deal in the meeting and the compo money paid to Espanyol they would!d have immediately had to look at other options. We'll never know the real reason why he backed out but on Thurs why was it SO nailed on he was signing. For me the mistake was not having him sign at the face to face and be got turned end of
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 20:54:50 GMT
Exactly. A woman who hates football, has no affection for stoke city because of how the supporters treated her dad last time and who is using her huge wealth to indulge both her brother and father. Neither peter coates nor Jon coates are hugely successful. What worries me Dave is who is picking what? Brother John picks a younger, progressive manager so Denise will happily release more funds for her brother? Old Daddy picks another old dinosaur so Denise draws up the financial drawbridge again?
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Post by maliciousdamage on Jan 13, 2018 20:55:45 GMT
A lot of people jump at every opportunity to throw abuse at Scholes, but what do we actually know about the job he is doing? I must say I really don't know anything, but the Coates family obviously rate his him so he must be doing something right! I'm more concerned with the abuse being chucked at Coates. None of us are happy about the current situation but we wouldnt even have had the chance to be getting arsey about relegation from the prem without him. I'd agree its not Coates its those under him as has been proved countless times with player signings etc
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Jan 13, 2018 20:59:14 GMT
By the way, I trust our unbelievably successful owners to recognise when a CEO needs replacing. I trust their judgement. Who do you consider to be our owner/s? The ultimate parent company of Stoke City Football Club Limited is bet365 Group Limited. bet365 Group Limited is under the control of Denise Coates CBE and her family. Therefore I consider it to be the Coates Family. Why do you ask?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 13, 2018 21:02:15 GMT
Exactly. A woman who hates football, has no affection for stoke city because of how the supporters treated her dad last time and who is using her huge wealth to indulge both her brother and father. Neither peter coates nor Jon coates are hugely successful. What worries me Dave is who is picking what? Brother John picks a younger, progressive manager so Denise will happily release more funds for her brother? Old Daddy picks another old dinosaur so Denise draws up the financial drawbridge again? I wouldn't be unzipping the wallet if Tyrannosaurus O'Neill was spending it, would you? I can't get my head around it and just hope they're on the same page.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 21:03:13 GMT
Not scholes fault....probably family and espanyol persuasion...easy to blame him There are lots of reasons why he could have changed his mind No, totally wrong you don't get to that advanced level of negotiations without sounding out him and his family before you fly out, unless of course you're incompetent. if they had been there a week they wouldnt know everything
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 13, 2018 21:04:32 GMT
Maybe they jumped the gun, it happens we aren't the first and won't be the last, yeh Hughes stayed a while but people have been on Scholes back for a lot longer with nothing to actually back it up. So why say it? And say it over a period of months from him signing? 😂😂 Sod knows, I know as much as you, I'm guessing too, but none of us know what actually went on but that seems enough to hang the bloke in some peoples minds.
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Post by ethers26 on Jan 13, 2018 21:04:44 GMT
Doesn't matter if QSF had given the club lip service last night. It happens all the time. There were enough pain points for Scholes to get him over the line. And it hasn't happened. He's a fucking shambles and this proves it more than any other deal. Before anyone comes back at me, we're a stable club in the Premier League. It isn't hard to sell us to big name players on their way down I.e. Arnie, Shaqiri, Afellay, Bojan ..all the time? I belive Stoke are pretty good in their negotations. They have their red lines and I think they stick to them. Currently we are not a stable club in the Premier League. We are in the bottom three and in disarray. I think the club's vision of youth development and self sufficiency is correct. Have we spunked a load of money on shit transfers? Yes. Whose fault was that? Hughes probably. Cartwright and Scholes ...possibly. Have our tactics on the pitch caused our downfall? Absolutely yes. Who is accountable for that? Not Cartwright and Scholes. At some point our shoe string strategy will come unstuck. Given the way money is quickly going in this league, I think it's no longer possible to survive if we don't change.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 13, 2018 21:05:39 GMT
Scholes can't control everything, if he's changed his mind there's nothing you can do. This correct however if he's definitely for it and then he met to sign the deal somewhere he didn't actually sign and I'd imagine that 24 hrs period gave Espanyol the chance to bend his ear back to them if he'd have been asked to sign the deal in the meeting and the compo money paid to Espanyol they would!d have immediately had to look at other options. We'll never know the real reason why he backed out but on Thurs why was it SO nailed on he was signing. For me the mistake was not having him sign at the face to face and be got turned end of What is there to sign if we were still negotiating, they wouldn't have a contract written up by then.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 21:10:54 GMT
What worries me Dave is who is picking what? Brother John picks a younger, progressive manager so Denise will happily release more funds for her brother? Old Daddy picks another old dinosaur so Denise draws up the financial drawbridge again? I wouldn't be unzipping the wallet if Tyrannosaurus O'Neill was spending it, would you? I can't get my head around it and just hope they're on the same page. If we don't promise it after what has been made public about the QSF deal then he won't come will he? He's 65 at the end of the day with a decent (if unspectacular record at PL level). a) He won't want the record tarnishing. b) He certainly doesn't need the stress of a relegation fight with a pittance of a budget to play with. c) He will want a contract worth signing. Then we are left looking at the likes of Steve McClaren, who definitely would come to work with a nothing budget!
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Post by crownmeking on Jan 13, 2018 21:12:23 GMT
'Weasel' - your words to suit your opinion? Sell the project - Scholes could have sold it to all except QSF's wife - maybe it was the scouting and transfer arrangements that put him off and maybe Scholes had no authority to change them QSF not happy in his present job - media accounts, not any quotes from the man himself Maybe, after all, in others' eyes, we not a better option, whatever 'better' means Also no comment yet about the role of Peter and John Coates - they, as the two top dogs will have set the parameters within which Scholes can negotiate - do we know what those limits were and how they affected the discussions? I don't. Maybe he watched a few vids. of our recent dross performances and thought fuck that. Maybe he came on this message board and saw how you love to sink the knife into peoples backs, and he thought, fuck that?
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jan 13, 2018 21:15:05 GMT
Do think he needs replacing but don't see this as his fault. It appears QSF agreed all the terms then changed his mind as the paperwork was being prepared. Totally down to QSF this one. That said don't rate Scholes I’ll never forgive him for the 150th celebration debacle!! What a damp squib that was.... grrrrrr
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 13, 2018 21:15:31 GMT
I wouldn't be unzipping the wallet if Tyrannosaurus O'Neill was spending it, would you? I can't get my head around it and just hope they're on the same page. If we don't promise it after what has been made public about the QSF deal then he won't come will he? He's 65 at the end of the day with a decent (if unspectacular record at PL level). a) He won't want the record tarnishing. b) He certainly doesn't need the stress of a relegation fight with a pittance of a budget to play with. c) He will want a contract worth signing. Then we are left looking at the likes of Steve McClaren. It certainly leaves him in an interesting negotiating position if he's followed the reports about what was supposedly on offer for QSF. If we're still going to unleash the dong, it's a strange play to put it in the hands of a manager who historically favours peak-age/veteran Brits at top dollar.
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Post by Fred Ferret on Jan 13, 2018 21:18:26 GMT
How juvenile can you get.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 21:19:06 GMT
If we don't promise it after what has been made public about the QSF deal then he won't come will he? He's 65 at the end of the day with a decent (if unspectacular record at PL level). a) He won't want the record tarnishing. b) He certainly doesn't need the stress of a relegation fight with a pittance of a budget to play with. c) He will want a contract worth signing. Then we are left looking at the likes of Steve McClaren. It certainly leaves him in an interesting negotiating position if he's followed the reports about what was supposedly on offer for QSF. If we're still going to unleash the dong, it's a strange play to put it in the hands of a manager who historically favours peak-age/veteran Brits at top dollar. I'm totally with you mate. My burning question, like a lot of our transfer dealings recently (Cedric Soares to Glen Johnson for example) is where is the middle ground from QSF to Martin O'Neill? We were obviously prepared to pay the release fee (and quite a hefty one at that) so why not have a short list of progressive coaches you are prepared to approach that are currently in work, and work your way through them and set the deals up? It seems we put all of our eggs in one basket, go for the prime fillet steak on the menu then when that turns to shit, we immediately go and order gammon steak with a dirty, filthy egg steaming away on top.
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Post by miggoscfc on Jan 13, 2018 21:19:30 GMT
Do think he needs replacing but don't see this as his fault. It appears QSF agreed all the terms then changed his mind as the paperwork was being prepared. Totally down to QSF this one. That said don't rate Scholes How many does that happen though? It's not a one off. We can't close deals when everything is agreed. That's an issue. You have no idea what goes on inside the club yet here you are petitioning for a man to lose his job. A new low even for you, if it was all public knowledge then you may have a case but you can't go around wanting people sacked because you think you might know what's going on. Peter Coates and his family didn't get rich by suffering fools easily if the bloke wasn't up too it he'd have been gone a long time ago.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 13, 2018 21:20:15 GMT
I wouldn't be unzipping the wallet if Tyrannosaurus O'Neill was spending it, would you? I can't get my head around it and just hope they're on the same page. If we don't promise it after what has been made public about the QSF deal then he won't come will he? He's 65 at the end of the day with a decent (if unspectacular record at PL level). a) He won't want the record tarnishing. b) He certainly doesn't need the stress of a relegation fight with a pittance of a budget to play with. c) He will want a contract worth signing. Then we are left looking at the likes of Steve McClaren, who definitely would come to work with a nothing budget! IF the project was as described (£3.5m pa/ 5 1/2 years) being someone said the 7th best deal in the Prem. Then why is it not worth offering that to Rafa (not sure if €/£4.5m buyout would work at Newcastle) and see what happens? Unless the MON story is a smokescreen
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Jan 13, 2018 21:20:20 GMT
Those saying it's not his fault Well, let's look at the facts Peter sent Scholes to "seal the deal" so to speak. It was verbally agreed, but not signed. So, who's fault is that exactly? Scholes should have had his NatWest fucking banking app, his card reader at the ready, and when Sanches said yes. He should have rang Espanyol, transferred the 4 million. Got Qique to sign the prepared managerial contract's, and unveiled him today But no. Scholes presumably said, ah great! Thanks for verbally agreeing to become our new manager, I'll pop back tomorrow with the contracts to sign. Fucking wank Tony. Wank ! Far far far far too simplistic a viewpoint. It just doesn't work like that. Contracts will only be drawn up once ALL clauses/articles are agreed. IF you believe the written press, there were loose ends to iron out. These loose ends quite likely would need to be agreed in writing as part of the main contract or an annex. Therefore nothing could be prepared or signed until both parties had full agreement...100%. You do not sign a contract of this magnitude and say "don't worry, we'll sort out the other bits once you've left your current position and have come to Stoke...you can trust us, honest!".
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 13, 2018 21:23:19 GMT
It certainly leaves him in an interesting negotiating position if he's followed the reports about what was supposedly on offer for QSF. If we're still going to unleash the dong, it's a strange play to put it in the hands of a manager who historically favours peak-age/veteran Brits at top dollar. I'm totally with you mate. My burning question, like a lot of our transfer dealings recently (Cedric Soares to Glen Johnson for example) is where is the middle ground from QSF to Martin O'Neill? We were obviously prepared to pay the release fee (and quite a hefty one at that) so why not have a short list of progressive coaches you are prepared to approach that are currently in work, and work your way through them and set the deals up. It seems we put all of our eggs in one basket, go for the prime fillet steak on the menu then when that turns to shit, we immediately go and order Gammon Steak. Yep. As has been suggested, it certainly does appear that Peter's taken control of the steering wheel again, and told John in no uncertain terms who's wearing the Daddy Pants. "Okay, I indulged you son. Now we're going to Safetyville, which is what I always wanted" Can't see any other explanation to jump from one to the other. You don't really have to do much reading between the lines to view it that way, do you? Wonder how John feels about it. As a QSF advocate, he can't possibly be 100% on board with going from one to the other - not when we apparently were offering a budget and package that could get us so much more
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 13, 2018 21:24:12 GMT
How many does that happen though? It's not a one off. We can't close deals when everything is agreed. That's an issue. You have no idea what goes on inside the club yet here you are petitioning for a man to lose his job. A new low even for you, if it was all public knowledge then you may have a case but you can't go around wanting people sacked because you think you might know what's going on. Peter Coates and his family didn't get rich by suffering fools easily if the bloke wasn't up too it he'd have been gone a long time ago. I've wanted him sacked for years. Peter Coates got really rich by stepping back. He needs to again.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jan 13, 2018 21:27:48 GMT
Those saying it's not his fault Well, let's look at the facts Peter sent Scholes to "seal the deal" so to speak. It was verbally agreed, but not signed. So, who's fault is that exactly? Scholes should have had his NatWest fucking banking app, his card reader at the ready, and when Sanches said yes. He should have rang Espanyol, transferred the 4 million. Got Qique to sign the prepared managerial contract's, and unveiled him today But no. Scholes presumably said, ah great! Thanks for verbally agreeing to become our new manager, I'll pop back tomorrow with the contracts to sign. Fucking wank Tony. Wank ! Far far far far too simplistic a viewpoint. It just doesn't work like that. Contracts will only be drawn up once ALL clauses/articles are agreed. IF you believe the written press, there were loose ends to iron out. These loose ends quite likely would need to be agreed in writing as part of the main contract or an annex. Therefore nothing could be prepared or signed until both parties had full agreement...100%. You do not sign a contract of this magnitude and say "don't worry, we'll sort out the other bits once you've left your current position and have come to Stoke...you can trust us, honest!". But there is a world of difference to meeting up and sounding someone out and then agreeing contracts. Every contract I have negotiated has never needed a trip out to iron out loose ends. This is done during the initial discussions.. Once completed the contract is sent electronically and signed there and then, especially for someone we really want.... We don’t allow a period to allow them to change their mind, especially with the opportunity to allow us to be used as a bargaining tool for their present employer.... this process has a wing and prayer process written all over it and heads should roll as this has happened too frequently!
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Post by miggoscfc on Jan 13, 2018 21:30:03 GMT
Those saying it's not his fault Well, let's look at the facts Peter sent Scholes to "seal the deal" so to speak. It was verbally agreed, but not signed. So, who's fault is that exactly? Scholes should have had his NatWest fucking banking app, his card reader at the ready, and when Sanches said yes. He should have rang Espanyol, transferred the 4 million. Got Qique to sign the prepared managerial contract's, and unveiled him today But no. Scholes presumably said, ah great! Thanks for verbally agreeing to become our new manager, I'll pop back tomorrow with the contracts to sign. Fucking wank Tony. Wank ! Far far far far too simplistic a viewpoint. It just doesn't work like that. Contracts will only be drawn up once ALL clauses/articles are agreed. IF you believe the written press, there were loose ends to iron out. These loose ends quite likely would need to be agreed in writing as part of the main contract or an annex. Therefore nothing could be prepared or signed until both parties had full agreement...100%. You do not sign a contract of this magnitude and say "don't worry, we'll sort out the other bits once you've left your current position and have come to Stoke...you can trust us, honest!". The problem is too many people think signing a multi million pound contract is like popping your pin in when completing your shopping. These are grown adults who have likely brought a house that takes a minimum of 6 weeks to draw up contracts yet think giving someone a 4 million pound contract is a pinch of salt that takes minutes. It's ridiculous venting based on frustration and disappointment but instead of thinking clearly they have to find someone to blame so of course the club the love and the staff that work there are the enemy. They are children who've been sent to the naughty step and are now sulking and blaming their parents. It laughable.
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Post by mrred on Jan 13, 2018 21:32:38 GMT
All these years we've been in the top league, we've operated and acted like a team leagues bellow us and have always acted as small time Stoke.
Amazed when I saw that wizards of drivel tweet about the fan that fronted him about Hughes Out, was completely out of touch. Will never forgive him for allowing the club to fart out a dour and completely muted celebration of our 150th anniversary.
Get the fuck out if my club you Teflon prick.
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