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Post by mozzer on Oct 22, 2017 9:32:40 GMT
There are quite a few football teams in the premier league that are nothing more than an advertising vehicle to carry the owners brand with Newcastle United, Manchester City and Stoke City being 3 of the worst contenders.......
The Coates family Empire is riding firmly and squarely on the back of the Stoke City band wagon, all around the globe the Bet365 brand is more synonymous with Stoke City than any of our heritage, ex-players, our nickname or any past history associated with our great club, we have gone from being an unknown, unfashionable, lowly supported, under achieving, under invested basket case of a club to being part of one of the biggest, over hyped, financially rich, globally exported sporting brands on the planet, the premier league, the EPL the football gravy train what ever you prefer to call it.
Although the money put in to the clubs by the respective owners is to our every day standards a huge payment/investment it is absolute peanuts to the corporate financiers and owners of these huge money making machines, with the money coming in on TV rights set against the owners investment required the returns are far more lucrative to enable the Bet365 (sports Direct or Etihad airways) brand to be beamed in to so many houses, pubs, restaurants, hotels and world wide establishments for so little cash.....this is why they have to sort it out.
Lets make no bones about it, we are quite lucky that we have in an owner Peter Coates who is at heart a Stoke City Fan and no doubt he wants to see them succeed, Mike Ashley on the other hand is not a Newcastle fan and probably feels no where near the pain from seeing his club crash and burn like Peter Coats does but both men carry one common goal ....
their needs and intentions with their respective clubs are business related and are nothing more than a very cost effective media outlet for their brand advertising front, for both men getting the Bet365/sports direct brand in to so many world wide establishments far out way their desire to see their respective clubs succeed as a football fan, Peter Coates is a very rich supporter who has one foot in both camps but I know which camp will be the most important to him and his families business empire.
So who is to blame for the 2 years of complete dross, well as far as I can see MH has done his bit by keeping the team and ultimately the Bet365 brand in the Premier league and gaining that brand the exposure that it requires, so, have the owners played a dangerous game and backed Hughes just about far enough to maintain that exposure, have the owners decided that if they get the balance just right the investment will get that brand exposure and the fans will be happy if the club just remains in the Premier league hanging on by their finger nails, have the owners decided that we have been in this league long enough to become a fixture and the loan signings and free transfers will be enough to keep us in the league with success at finishing 14th being cheaper than the prize money vs the transfer kitty to finish 8th, well I know my place in this money rich league, 8th down to 14th will be our lot and to be honest I am happy with that if.........
the journey through the season becomes acceptable, and from what I have witnessed that journey is currently a disgrace, our losses against the better teams away from home could very much be accepted but lets have some pride, lets have some talking points of a close game, how we may have sneaked that draw of even sneaked a win, the last two years have been a disgrace with some of the hammering's we have taken and as fans we have been totally blasé about it and taken it that we should be getting hammered, even though when we first arrived in this league we were the underdog, the little fish in the big pond, the unfashionable working class Stoke city everyone loved to hate, we once competed in this league with pride and determination, a game plan and an atmosphere that people respected......now where are we!!
I am Stoke through and through and this hurts, I have no business connections with the club I am just a supporter ploughing my hard earned in to follow the team I love, it does not matter what bull shit spin is released by the club or the load of bollocks statements released in the name of Peter Coates to rally the troops and unify the support, it will get sorted one way or another, it has to for the ongoing good of the Bet365 empire and the low cost global exposure that it currently enjoys, hold on tight ladies and gentlemen because I have a feeling that this shower of shit will get a lot worse before it gets better but it has to get better and by getting better a one off win to take the heat off then lose the next 4 will not be good enough.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Oct 22, 2017 10:56:39 GMT
If the coates family do nothing after yesterday i am afraid to say they need to move over & give somebody else a shot at changing our fortunes. They have done wonders for the club & the city but you have to question if there heart is still in this you cannot bury your head in the sand & let things stagnate as they are now. Its gone on to long & needs addressing before its to late.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 22, 2017 11:06:16 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his instincts to take any action for a good while yet.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 22, 2017 11:07:44 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his better judgement to take any action for a good while yet. And against his wallet...
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Oct 22, 2017 11:13:41 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his instincts to take any action for a good while yet. We've been in a downward spiral for nearly 2 years now. We look less attractive to potential new managers because of this spiral.
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 22, 2017 11:17:22 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his instincts to take any action for a good while yet. I can see you're point and its a reasonable one, but we have been in decline, performance wise, since Jan 2016....... that represents a pretty good patience level, I think. I would be very surprised indeed if that factor would put off any potential managers as much as our desire to pay low wages.
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Post by mozzer on Oct 22, 2017 11:40:10 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his instincts to take any action for a good while yet. Nah Wuzz, he has had his chances, he would have gone 18 months ago at most clubs, definately 12 months ago at all clubs bar Stoke, and 6 months ago at any club on any planet of the universe PC and fans have stood by him and watched silently and loyally as the club spirals towards years of more oblivion in the lower leagues, It is now or never for the change. I will accept Championship football gladly, it is no problem for me going down if we have to, I dont want to if we have a choice but it really does not bother me in the slightest as I enjoy challenging for things rather than existing......... but we all know that every club in the Championship is challenging/striving for Premier league football so what's the point of letting it slip, we need to shore up the club now because KEEPPING PREMIER LEAGUE STATUS IS A LOT EASIER THAN GAINING PREMIER LEAGUE STATUS.
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Post by march4 on Oct 22, 2017 11:48:22 GMT
Dyche can be a successful manager for us for the next 5 years at least.
We have to act today before Leicester nip in ahead of us.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 22, 2017 11:50:15 GMT
Dyche can be a successful manager for us for the next 5 years at least. We have to act today before Leicester nip in ahead of us. Would he come here, though?
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Oct 22, 2017 11:52:32 GMT
Very true words maintaining premier league status much easier than trying to attain it from a very competitive championship.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 22, 2017 11:56:41 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his instincts to take any action for a good while yet. I can see you're point and its a reasonable one, but we have been in decline, performance wise, since Jan 2016....... that represents a pretty good patience level, I think. I would be very surprised indeed if that factor would put off any potential managers as much as our desire to pay low wages. I think you are right but I have a feeling that Coates will consider this an ideal opportunity to re-emphasise to the footballing world that he is different from his peers. The fiscal aspect of it will also play a part , sacking manages writes off a lot of cash and hence he will not want to take action until relegation becomes a more imminent threat.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 22, 2017 11:58:13 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his instincts to take any action for a good while yet. We've been in a downward spiral for nearly 2 years now. We look less attractive to potential new managers because of this spiral. He has had a good long time to get this right but I don’t think the outside world really perceives how long we have been on a downward spiral.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 22, 2017 12:00:46 GMT
Ironically what people are asking Coates to do is exactly the opposite to what would make this club attractive to quality managers. His reputation is of a chairman who will support his manager through difficult spells and take a more long term view.- it will go very much against his instincts to take any action for a good while yet. Nah Wuzz, he has had his chances, he would have gone 18 months ago at most clubs, definately 12 months ago at all clubs bar Stoke, and 6 months ago at any club on any planet of the universe PC and fans have stood by him and watched silently and loyally as the club spirals towards years of more oblivion in the lower leagues, It is now or never for the change. I will accept Championship football gladly, it is no problem for me going down if we have to, I dont want to if we have a choice but it really does not bother me in the slightest as I enjoy challenging for things rather than existing......... but we all know that every club in the Championship is challenging/striving for Premier league football so what's the point of letting it slip, we need to shore up the club now because KEEPPING PREMIER LEAGUE STATUS IS A LOT EASIER THAN GAINING PREMIER LEAGUE STATUS. I agree - but I don’t think that’s the view from the top and for reasons I’ve quoted I don’t think Coates is anywhere near convinced yet.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 12:25:19 GMT
Dyche can be a successful manager for us for the next 5 years at least. We have to act today before Leicester nip in ahead of us. You could definitely see the attraction for them. English - tick Proven in the top two divisions - tick More importantly... Spends next to nothing - a net spend of around 28M over the last 4 seasons - around 7M a season. They'd love him here. Certain sections of the fan base would love him also - an absolute hoofer who has 20 odd percent possession a game and 2 shots on target. They'd lap it up.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 22, 2017 12:27:58 GMT
Coates is fast becoming part of the problem if he can't see that we've been awful for these past 18 months.
Things need to change and fast.
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 22, 2017 12:28:09 GMT
I can see you're point and its a reasonable one, but we have been in decline, performance wise, since Jan 2016....... that represents a pretty good patience level, I think. I would be very surprised indeed if that factor would put off any potential managers as much as our desire to pay low wages. I think you are right but I have a feeling that Coates will consider this an ideal opportunity to re-emphasise to the footballing world that he is different from his peers. The fiscal aspect of it will also play a part , sacking manages writes off a lot of cash and hence he will not want to take action until relegation becomes a more imminent threat. You're analysis of Coates psychology seems to be correct, I reckon you're likely to be right. Guess I'd better hope that the situation doesn't decline as badly as I fear it could.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 22, 2017 12:30:53 GMT
I can accept results like yesterday if they bring about change.
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Post by johnnyjarvis on Oct 22, 2017 12:31:39 GMT
For this first time ever I have read a series of comments that actually have some intellectual merit.
Does Mr Coates have the real appetite to drive the club to the next level. The answer is clearly no. So what’s next?
I suspect the club will go through a further transition over the next coming months. Whether that’s a change of manager or a discontent towards the owners. I do not say the latter lightly. The Coates family have been good to the city but, their constant drip feeding of cash (not theirs may I add) is now damaging our premier league existence.
Those who can view Bet365 accounts will show the business loans money to the club which is great. However, those same loans are paid back in full. Then after all expenses the club is then always generating profit. Excellent business model in any sphere but, in this crazy world of football it does make investment to the next level unlikely.
We have every right to challenge the owners intentions. Too often I hear Mr Coates is our saviour. Well, profit comes ahead of ambition.
Talksport recently asked and I quote, “what is the point of Stoke City”? At the time it was lambasted for making such a comment. But, I would say this was totally on the mark. If the fans are just in it to watch the best players then we have achieved the goal. I want MORE from this club. I want to be challenging for cups, moving towards European football. Being the envy of the elite. IS THIS ASKING TOO MUCH??
We need a new direction in and off the field.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 12:41:49 GMT
With all the comments and steady but now inexorable drift towards getting rid of Hughes and replacing him with another manager , do we think Coates and the Board are really even considering getting rid of the manager at the present time ? Surely they must be well aware of the fans unrest and dissatisfaction at the style of play, performances, and results ?
Today's statement from Ryan backing the manager is in my view the first of several similar statements and press releases in the next few days/weeks as the club strive to calm the fans.
My concern is that they will continue to blindly blunder on with the current set-up which patently isn't working until it's too late to rescue the situation. Even worse would be for Hughes to get us relegated and for the Board to retain him as the "right man to get us promoted" the following season.
I fear for the club in it's present form, and hope that the necessary action is taken very soon.
He clearly isn't capable of organising the team, or motivating them, and we urgently need drastic measures to help to retain ur Prem status this season.
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Post by mrred on Oct 22, 2017 13:02:35 GMT
Dyche can be a successful manager for us for the next 5 years at least. We have to act today before Leicester nip in ahead of us. You could definitely see the attraction for them. English - tick Proven in the top two divisions - tick More importantly... Spends next to nothing - a net spend of around 28M over the last 4 seasons - around 7M a season. They'd love him here. Certain sections of the fan base would love him also - an absolute hoofer who has 20 odd percent possession a game and 2 shots on target. They'd lap it up. I wouldn't say no to Dyche though he's not the most attractive option. I just don't look at him as an option because he's a bit more traditional / loyal and I don't think he's just leave Burnley on a whim until his contract is up. Especially to a club like us.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Oct 22, 2017 13:09:50 GMT
Us being in the Premiership is what’s raking Coates his money in from our global exposure, the fact he seems to be risking this through sheer blind faith is actually rather disturbing.
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Post by pottermissy on Oct 22, 2017 13:10:03 GMT
With all the comments and steady but now inexorable drift towards getting rid of Hughes and replacing him with another manager , do we think Coates and the Board are really even considering getting rid of the manager at the present time ? Surely they must be well aware of the fans unrest and dissatisfaction at the style of play, performances, and results ? Today's statement from Ryan backing the manager is in my view the first of several similar statements and press releases in the next few days/weeks as the club strive to calm the fans. My concern is that they will continue to blindly blunder on with the current set-up which patently isn't working until it's too late to rescue the situation. Even worse would be for Hughes to get us relegated and for the Board to retain him as the "right man to get us promoted" the following season. I fear for the club in it's present form, and hope that the necessary action is taken very soon. He clearly isn't capable of organising the team, or motivating them, and we urgently need drastic measures to help to retain ur Prem status this season. They can release statements from all sources until they're coming out of their arse, the only way they can calm the fans is by getting results on the pitch.. this seems to be a consensus no one at the Club understands. And unfortunately, given recent performances I'm not sure where those results will come from.
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Post by stokiesteve on Oct 22, 2017 13:24:32 GMT
There are quite a few football teams in the premier league that are nothing more than an advertising vehicle to carry the owners brand with Newcastle United, Manchester City and Stoke City being 3 of the worst contenders....... The Coates family Empire is riding firmly and squarely on the back of the Stoke City band wagon, all around the globe the Bet365 brand is more synonymous with Stoke City than any of our heritage, ex-players, our nickname or any past history associated with our great club, we have gone from being an unknown, unfashionable, lowly supported, under achieving, under invested basket case of a club to being part of one of the biggest, over hyped, financially rich, globally exported sporting brands on the planet, the premier league, the EPL the football gravy train what ever you prefer to call it. Although the money put in to the clubs by the respective owners is to our every day standards a huge payment/investment it is absolute peanuts to the corporate financiers and owners of these huge money making machines, with the money coming in on TV rights set against the owners investment required the returns are far more lucrative to enable the Bet365 (sports Direct or Etihad airways) brand to be beamed in to so many houses, pubs, restaurants, hotels and world wide establishments for so little cash.....this is why they have to sort it out. Lets make no bones about it, we are quite lucky that we have in an owner Peter Coates who is at heart a Stoke City Fan and no doubt he wants to see them succeed, Mike Ashley on the other hand is not a Newcastle fan and probably feels no where near the pain from seeing his club crash and burn like Peter Coats does but both men carry one common goal .... their needs and intentions with their respective clubs are business related and are nothing more than a very cost effective media outlet for their brand advertising front, for both men getting the Bet365/sports direct brand in to so many world wide establishments far out way their desire to see their respective clubs succeed as a football fan, Peter Coates is a very rich supporter who has one foot in both camps but I know which camp will be the most important to him and his families business empire. So who is to blame for the 2 years of complete dross, well as far as I can see MH has done his bit by keeping the team and ultimately the Bet365 brand in the Premier league and gaining that brand the exposure that it requires, so, have the owners played a dangerous game and backed Hughes just about far enough to maintain that exposure, have the owners decided that if they get the balance just right the investment will get that brand exposure and the fans will be happy if the club just remains in the Premier league hanging on by their finger nails, have the owners decided that we have been in this league long enough to become a fixture and the loan signings and free transfers will be enough to keep us in the league with success at finishing 14th being cheaper than the prize money vs the transfer kitty to finish 8th, well I know my place in this money rich league, 8th down to 14th will be our lot and to be honest I am happy with that if......... the journey through the season becomes acceptable, and from what I have witnessed that journey is currently a disgrace, our losses against the better teams away from home could very much be accepted but lets have some pride, lets have some talking points of a close game, how we may have sneaked that draw of even sneaked a win, the last two years have been a disgrace with some of the hammering's we have taken and as fans we have been totally blasé about it and taken it that we should be getting hammered, even though when we first arrived in this league we were the underdog, the little fish in the big pond, the unfashionable working class Stoke city everyone loved to hate, we once competed in this league with pride and determination, a game plan and an atmosphere that people respected......now where are we!! I am Stoke through and through and this hurts, I have no business connections with the club I am just a supporter ploughing my hard earned in to follow the team I love, it does not matter what bull shit spin is released by the club or the load of bollocks statements released in the name of Peter Coates to rally the troops and unify the support, it will get sorted one way or another, it has to for the ongoing good of the Bet365 empire and the low cost global exposure that it currently enjoys, hold on tight ladies and gentlemen because I have a feeling that this shower of shit will get a lot worse before it gets better but it has to get better and by getting better a one off win to take the heat off then lose the next 4 will not be good enough. Great Post mate. I fully second your sentiments. 8th to 14th is ok if we play well for it. As I said on another thread, the big 6 or 7 will buy every trophy so we won't be celebrating any success like that ever, but a solid club with a team that tries will do. I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 13:37:26 GMT
Yep the COATES family have definitely got to step in now
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Post by Smudge_SCFC on Oct 22, 2017 13:40:22 GMT
Before we get too carried away with the idea that bet365 are riding on the coat-tails of Stoke City there is a simple equation which we’d all do well to remember;
bet365 disappears tomorrow = Stoke City with serious financial issues to contend with. Stoke City disappears tomorrow = bet365 continues on its merry way without batting an eyelid.
That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. Stoke City are a low profile, middling, top flight club with one major trophy to its name and a stadium with a stadium capacity below 30,000. bet365 is a wold leader in its field with a massive profile across the entire planet. They’re giving more to the club than they’re getting from it.
And to correct one earlier post. It is true that bet365 loans the club money but it is most definitely NOT true that it all gets paid back.
In actual fact the Coates family wrote off something like £80m in loans in the seasons immediately after promotion, converting the amount instead into extra shares.
I do agree that action needs to be taken and that our owners have to act but we need to deal with the reality of the situation and not go dealing in wishful thinking.
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Post by chamberlain on Oct 22, 2017 13:53:52 GMT
Dyche can be a successful manager for us for the next 5 years at least. We have to act today before Leicester nip in ahead of us. You could definitely see the attraction for them. English - tick Proven in the top two divisions - tick More importantly... Spends next to nothing - a net spend of around 28M over the last 4 seasons - around 7M a season. They'd love him here. Certain sections of the fan base would love him also - an absolute hoofer who has 20 odd percent possession a game and 2 shots on target. They'd lap it up. Exactly mate , he’s Tony Pulis mk2 and for that reason I wouldn’t want him here
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Post by alster on Oct 22, 2017 13:59:06 GMT
Before we get too carried away with the idea that bet365 are riding on the coat-tails of Stoke City there is a simple equation which we’d all do well to remember; bet365 disappears tomorrow = Stoke City with serious financial issues to contend with. Stoke City disappears tomorrow = bet365 continues on its merry way without batting an eyelid.That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. Stoke City are a low profile, middling, top flight club with one major trophy to its name and a stadium with a stadium capacity below 30,000. bet365 is a wold leader in its field with a massive profile across the entire planet. They’re giving more to the club than they’re getting from it. And to correct one earlier post. It is true that bet365 loans the club money but it is most definitely NOT true that it all gets paid back. In actual fact the Coates family wrote off something like £80m in loans in the seasons immediately after promotion, converting the amount instead into extra shares. I do agree that action needs to be taken and that our owners have to act but we need to deal with the reality of the situation and not go dealing in wishful thinking. I totally agree that bet365 are in no way reliant on Stoke City but the self financing model has been in operation for over two years now no coincidence that they have been two years of decline. Apart from not calling in the outstanding loans they've really been of very little assistance during that period.The debt to them is around £60M which is more like the figure that was effectively written of by turning it into shares of an entity they already own almost in its entirety( its the equivalent of buying fresh air) but that was as you rightly say a good many years ago and there seems to be no repeat on the cards. I'm not sure this self financing bollox is going to work we need an owner who'll speculate to accumulate. Given the value of their asset their investment in the club has been a profitable one but not one that they're prepared to continue maybe its time they passed the baton on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 14:01:15 GMT
Nothing to do with wishful thinking,simple statistics are proving that, for quite sometime we have been in a slow lingering death spiral under this present football manager. We've been here before but unlike previous times, we've, we crept towards the bottom, This time you just cannot see the players nor the fighting qualities in the present squad that have previously equipped us to fight our way out. This time its looking dire with no way out unless, we have a different approach. WE All SAW yesterdays first half where, we conspired to make a truly horrible little football club look like real Madrid and, on our own patch too!!!- we we so abject clueless and spineless and yet the manager seemingly is the least concerned and is retaining his characterless joyless smug arrogance whilst slowly but surely turning us into another QPR.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 14:01:50 GMT
Before we get too carried away with the idea that bet365 are riding on the coat-tails of Stoke City there is a simple equation which we’d all do well to remember; bet365 disappears tomorrow = Stoke City with serious financial issues to contend with. Stoke City disappears tomorrow = bet365 continues on its merry way without batting an eyelid.That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. Stoke City are a low profile, middling, top flight club with one major trophy to its name and a stadium with a stadium capacity below 30,000. bet365 is a wold leader in its field with a massive profile across the entire planet. They’re giving more to the club than they’re getting from it. And to correct one earlier post. It is true that bet365 loans the club money but it is most definitely NOT true that it all gets paid back. In actual fact the Coates family wrote off something like £80m in loans in the seasons immediately after promotion, converting the amount instead into extra shares. I do agree that action needs to be taken and that our owners have to act but we need to deal with the reality of the situation and not go dealing in wishful thinking. Is it true that Bet365 own a holding company that owns the Stadium, and charges approx 5M a year in rent to the club?
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Post by johnnyjarvis on Oct 22, 2017 14:05:02 GMT
I would like to correct the previous post. There is no money owed to Bet365 from Stoke City Limited.
Bet365 allow funds to release so to trade financially in a fiscal year. The loan is purely to bridge the incoming premiership payments.
What I am advocating is Mr Coates is NOT utilising the wealth of Bet365 effectively not costing him any financial risk.
This is NOT a club who is prepared to take risks. Fact. Mr Coates says we have to self sufficient. HOW??
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