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Post by foster on Feb 12, 2018 10:17:22 GMT
They don't give a fuck imo. 10 years in the top flight, the plebs should be grateful. They may be mostly stoke fans, but they're also rich and well off. They'll get over Stoke going down quickly. I think it's pretty clear that the term 'self sustainable' basically translates as 'minimal investment'. In 10 years with the funds at their disposal we could be much further advanced than we are currently. I see no reason why the stadium couldn't already be at 40k capacity with a massive overhaul. Our base support should have been the primary focus which in turn strengthens our foundation should we get relegated. Aside from TV money we've basically stagnated in terms of other means of generating revenue. Anyone else recall the 5 (or even 3) year plan we had when we got promoted? WTF happened to that? Was that plan just to extend the Brit capacity by 3k? Even that was done 2 years later than it should have been. We've missed the boat now. A short term cash injection a few years back would have given us a distinct advantage over half the teams in the league and we could have had much better sponsorship deals (with BET365). So in 10 years we've increased to a 30k stadium capacity, added a new sound system and built a training complex. Whoop di fucking doo. The only time we've invested a significant sum of money into something is in transfers and have any of our 10m+ signings actually been decent? Wimmer, Imbula, Palacios (close to 10m), etc. All dogshit and I can't attribute that only to the manager. These deals are sanctioned and then we read some shit like 'we tried to sign a striker'. Fuck off, you didn't try hard enough.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Feb 12, 2018 12:37:16 GMT
They don't give a fuck imo. 10 years in the top flight, the plebs should be grateful. They may be mostly stoke fans, but they're also rich and well off. They'll get over Stoke going down quickly. I think it's pretty clear that the term 'self sustainable' basically translates as 'minimal investment'. In 10 years with the funds at their disposal we could be much further advanced than we are currently. I see no reason why the stadium couldn't already be at 40k capacity with a massive overhaul. Our base support should have been the primary focus which in turn strengthens our foundation should we get relegated. Aside from TV money we've basically stagnated in terms of other means of generating revenue. Anyone else recall the 5 (or even 3) year plan we had when we got promoted? WTF happened to that? Was that plan just to extend the Brit capacity by 3k? Even that was done 2 years later than it should have been. We've missed the boat now. A short term cash injection a few years back would have given us a distinct advantage over half the teams in the league and we could have had much better sponsorship deals (with BET365). So in 10 years we've increased to a 30k stadium capacity, added a new sound system and built a training complex. Whoop di fucking doo. The only time we've invested a significant sum of money into something is in transfers and have any of our 10m+ signings actually been decent? Wimmer, Imbula, Palacios (close to 10m), etc. All dogshit and I can't attribute that only to the manager. These deals are sanctioned and then we read some shit like 'we tried to sign a striker'. Fuck off, you didn't try hard enough. I think complacency had crept in, we were fine for 8 seasons so we will obviously be ok if we carry on doing the same things. Dangerous and a (as shown) potentially fatal mistake.
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Post by alster on Feb 12, 2018 12:44:19 GMT
They don't give a fuck imo. 10 years in the top flight, the plebs should be grateful. They may be mostly stoke fans, but they're also rich and well off. They'll get over Stoke going down quickly. I think it's pretty clear that the term 'self sustainable' basically translates as 'minimal investment'. In 10 years with the funds at their disposal we could be much further advanced than we are currently. I see no reason why the stadium couldn't already be at 40k capacity with a massive overhaul. Our base support should have been the primary focus which in turn strengthens our foundation should we get relegated. Aside from TV money we've basically stagnated in terms of other means of generating revenue. Anyone else recall the 5 (or even 3) year plan we had when we got promoted? WTF happened to that? Was that plan just to extend the Brit capacity by 3k? Even that was done 2 years later than it should have been. We've missed the boat now. A short term cash injection a few years back would have given us a distinct advantage over half the teams in the league and we could have had much better sponsorship deals (with BET365). So in 10 years we've increased to a 30k stadium capacity, added a new sound system and built a training complex. Whoop di fucking doo. The only time we've invested a significant sum of money into something is in transfers and have any of our 10m+ signings actually been decent? Wimmer, Imbula, Palacios (close to 10m), etc. All dogshit and I can't attribute that only to the manager. These deals are sanctioned and then we read some shit like 'we tried to sign a striker'. Fuck off, you didn't try hard enough. We had ambition, ambition to sign DANNY FUCKING INGS ON FUCKING LOAN. When that's the scale of your ambition you deserve to be relegated. For all the mocking early season of Arnie and West Ham maybe our fans can now see the difference between the Coates version of ambition and the rest of top flight football's.
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Post by mrred on Feb 12, 2018 12:58:50 GMT
There are quite a few football teams in the premier league that are nothing more than an advertising vehicle to carry the owners brand with Newcastle United, Manchester City and Stoke City being 3 of the worst contenders....... The Coates family Empire is riding firmly and squarely on the back of the Stoke City band wagon, all around the globe the Bet365 brand is more synonymous with Stoke City than any of our heritage, ex-players, our nickname or any past history associated with our great club, we have gone from being an unknown, unfashionable, lowly supported, under achieving, under invested basket case of a club to being part of one of the biggest, over hyped, financially rich, globally exported sporting brands on the planet, the premier league, the EPL the football gravy train what ever you prefer to call it. Although the money put in to the clubs by the respective owners is to our every day standards a huge payment/investment it is absolute peanuts to the corporate financiers and owners of these huge money making machines, with the money coming in on TV rights set against the owners investment required the returns are far more lucrative to enable the Bet365 (sports Direct or Etihad airways) brand to be beamed in to so many houses, pubs, restaurants, hotels and world wide establishments for so little cash.....this is why they have to sort it out. Lets make no bones about it, we are quite lucky that we have in an owner Peter Coates who is at heart a Stoke City Fan and no doubt he wants to see them succeed, Mike Ashley on the other hand is not a Newcastle fan and probably feels no where near the pain from seeing his club crash and burn like Peter Coats does but both men carry one common goal .... their needs and intentions with their respective clubs are business related and are nothing more than a very cost effective media outlet for their brand advertising front, for both men getting the Bet365/sports direct brand in to so many world wide establishments far out way their desire to see their respective clubs succeed as a football fan, Peter Coates is a very rich supporter who has one foot in both camps but I know which camp will be the most important to him and his families business empire. So who is to blame for the 2 years of complete dross, well as far as I can see MH has done his bit by keeping the team and ultimately the Bet365 brand in the Premier league and gaining that brand the exposure that it requires, so, have the owners played a dangerous game and backed Hughes just about far enough to maintain that exposure, have the owners decided that if they get the balance just right the investment will get that brand exposure and the fans will be happy if the club just remains in the Premier league hanging on by their finger nails, have the owners decided that we have been in this league long enough to become a fixture and the loan signings and free transfers will be enough to keep us in the league with success at finishing 14th being cheaper than the prize money vs the transfer kitty to finish 8th, well I know my place in this money rich league, 8th down to 14th will be our lot and to be honest I am happy with that if......... the journey through the season becomes acceptable, and from what I have witnessed that journey is currently a disgrace, our losses against the better teams away from home could very much be accepted but lets have some pride, lets have some talking points of a close game, how we may have sneaked that draw of even sneaked a win, the last two years have been a disgrace with some of the hammering's we have taken and as fans we have been totally blasé about it and taken it that we should be getting hammered, even though when we first arrived in this league we were the underdog, the little fish in the big pond, the unfashionable working class Stoke city everyone loved to hate, we once competed in this league with pride and determination, a game plan and an atmosphere that people respected......now where are we!! I am Stoke through and through and this hurts, I have no business connections with the club I am just a supporter ploughing my hard earned in to follow the team I love, it does not matter what bull shit spin is released by the club or the load of bollocks statements released in the name of Peter Coates to rally the troops and unify the support, it will get sorted one way or another, it has to for the ongoing good of the Bet365 empire and the low cost global exposure that it currently enjoys, hold on tight ladies and gentlemen because I have a feeling that this shower of shit will get a lot worse before it gets better but it has to get better and by getting better a one off win to take the heat off then lose the next 4 will not be good enough. Well I asked the question in October, it is now all coming home to roost they have fucked 8 years of a well run club in 2 years, pizza boys and their entourage have finally completed operation cluster fuck with style, not relegated yet but by fuck we are close I had my reservations mid way though last season, probably earlier if I'm honest. Recall a lot of people saying I was talking shit. Shall I start pumping my own comments? Come on Moz, you're better than littering the board with old as shit threads.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 12, 2018 13:18:04 GMT
The owners have two choices, namely to splash the cash or operate in a financially prudent way, I think they have/will choose the second option.
The PL is in a massive financial bubble, in fact there are bubbles in virtually every aspect of business life today as debt becomes the new wealth.
I think the family is correct to adopt a self sustainable model for the club, whether that can keep us in the PL though will depend largely on them achieving a significant improvement in the quality of signings.
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Post by alster on Feb 12, 2018 13:24:48 GMT
The owners have two choices, namely to splash the cash or operate in a financially prudent way, I think they have/will choose the second option. The PL is in a massive financial bubble, in fact there are bubbles in virtually every aspect of business life today as debt becomes the new wealth. I think the family is correct to adopt a self sustainable model for the club, whether that can keep us in the PL though will depend largely on them achieving a significant improvement in the quality of signings. You do realise we can not make any signings before "the crunch" they had that opportunity in January and they just weren't prepared to gamble even a tiny proportion of their humungus wealth to try to avert a relegation that was staring us in the face. We'll most likely go down whilst making a profit.
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Post by peekay67 on Feb 12, 2018 13:27:30 GMT
We shouldn't be to surprised Coates has messed up. He has previous form remember. If we do eventually get relegated, the championship is a hell of a tight league to get out of. We NEED to stay up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 13:29:16 GMT
Been away. What happened to this Danny Ings malarkey?Just found out the baggies got Sturridge, and Chelsea got Giroud. What on earth is going on?
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Post by enuntio on Feb 12, 2018 13:30:17 GMT
There'll be no sorting out until the summer
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 12, 2018 13:31:47 GMT
The owners have two choices, namely to splash the cash or operate in a financially prudent way, I think they have/will choose the second option. The PL is in a massive financial bubble, in fact there are bubbles in virtually every aspect of business life today as debt becomes the new wealth. I think the family is correct to adopt a self sustainable model for the club, whether that can keep us in the PL though will depend largely on them achieving a significant improvement in the quality of signings. You do realise we can not make any signings before "the crunch" they had that opportunity in January and they just weren't prepared to gamble even a tiny proportion of their humungus wealth to try to avert a relegation that was staring us in the face. We'll most likely go down whilst making a profit. My comments are based on us being a PL club next season or if not in future seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 13:44:47 GMT
We are like the Beverley hillbillies of the premiership....plenty of money no class
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Post by stokemark on Feb 12, 2018 14:28:26 GMT
You do realise we can not make any signings before "the crunch" they had that opportunity in January and they just weren't prepared to gamble even a tiny proportion of their humungus wealth to try to avert a relegation that was staring us in the face. We'll most likely go down whilst making a profit. My comments are based on us being a PL club next season or if not in future seasons. Well your comments are ill conceived then The Coates family have enjoyed enormous financial success and the patriarch has enjoyed all of the trappings that have come from being the Chairman of a Premier League football club At the age of 80 he wants (wanted) to leave a legacy and that legacy could well mean us being pretty much back to where we started due to 'self sustainability' Forgive me if this sounds ungrateful but the pathetic way in which he has responded to the obvious issues staring him in the face, his inability to sack and them select a manager capable of at least keeping us in this league and then finally his 'we tried to sign a striker' comments at the end of the transfer window wiped away all of the good will that his initial 'second coming' generated. 'Forever grateful' ? no 'Forever regretful' more like
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 12, 2018 14:50:10 GMT
My comments are based on us being a PL club next season or if not in future seasons. Well your comments are ill conceived then The Coates family have enjoyed enormous financial success and the patriarch has enjoyed all of the trappings that have come from being the Chairman of a Premier League football club At the age of 80 he wants (wanted) to leave a legacy and that legacy could well mean us being pretty much back to where we started due to 'self sustainability' Forgive me if this sounds ungrateful but the pathetic way in which he has responded to the obvious issues staring him in the face, his inability to sack and them select a manager capable of at least keeping us in this league and then finally his 'we tried to sign a striker' comments at the end of the transfer window wiped away all of the good will that his initial 'second coming' generated. 'Forever grateful' ? no 'Forever regretful' more like Whether Peter Coates has acted in a professional manner in the last twelve months is a matter of opinion, but is not the the issue I am raising. Stoke City is a subsidiary of BET 365, therefore is'nt it good business sense to ensure the club is run in a sound financial way, so that the Holding Company is not forced to subsidise the losses of it's subsidiary company. The trick or issue though is how can you do that in todays PL and still remain part of it!
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Post by emmbrook1956 on Feb 12, 2018 15:03:56 GMT
When self sustainability was first mentioned I considered that likely to be the end of investment in the first team. For Stoke to carry on competing in the Premier League we needed to spend more than we have. To be one of the lowest spenders when the window closed in August and end up in credit was appalling. Also January painted a sorry picture when our Chairman states 'we tried to sign a striker.'
The purchases of Imbula and Berahino have been poor as Stoke have had no return on their 'investment .' These two buys probably made the Boards pockets deeper. To be fair, from what I have seen of the latest additions there may be some hope but not a lot.
Whatever happens, Paul Lambert will have a massive job next season whether it be in the Premier League or more probably the Championship.
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Post by metalhead on Feb 12, 2018 15:13:04 GMT
We shouldn't be to surprised Coates has messed up. He has previous form remember. If we do eventually get relegated, the championship is a hell of a tight league to get out of. We NEED to stay up. We may NEED to stay up, in the way I NEED to buy a new car. Doesn't mean either of those are happening, especially in the next few months. Face facts fella, we're done for. We need to pick up points against very very good teams and while clubs around us are able to raise their game in times of need, we can't. We're a team full of mercenaries and players laughing at the size of their bank balance.
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Post by metalhead on Feb 12, 2018 15:16:55 GMT
When self sustainability was first mentioned I considered that likely to be the end of investment in the first team. For Stoke to carry on competing in the Premier League we needed to spend more than we have. To be one of the lowest spenders when the window closed in August and end up in credit was appalling. Also January painted a sorry picture when our Chairman states 'we tried to sign a striker.' The purchases of Imbula and Berahino have been poor as Stoke have had no return on their 'investment .' These two buys probably made the Boards pockets deeper. To be fair, from what I have seen of the latest additions there may be some hope but not a lot. Whatever happens, Paul Lambert will have a massive job next season whether it be in the Premier League or more probably the Championship. Signing Imbula would have been a stroke of brilliance had it turned out that he was a good player. It's not fair to put all of the blame for Imbula on the board. What isn't acceptable is the first part of your post. The fact we continually invest next to nothing and hope for the best. It worked for a few seasons, but like Villa, Hull, Sunderland and other clubs who operate like that, it's finally caught up with us. 34 year old freebies like Darren Fletcher don't keep you in the Premier League. Time to face facts.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Feb 12, 2018 15:20:58 GMT
This is all the downside of local / homegrown / "traditional" almost 70s-like ownership - too much heart and not enough head. A lot of the so-called virtues of "loyalty", "taking the long term view", "risk aversion" and the pie in the sky "self-sufficieny" are incongrous with the running of a modern Premier league club - you have to both forsee and take some calculated risks, be prepared to take QUICK & tough decisions when *anything* comes near to posing a threat to our Prem status and be realistic in that to remain competitive you will have to spend BIG BIG BIG - never going to achieve a break-even model and stay in the league.
The bit that puzzles me is that Bet365 has been built on the back of an approach akin to what is needed at SCFC - why has that not translated into a more professional,ruthless business-model that we have been crying out for - if the Coates family are to retain an active part of our future I would hope someone with balls-of-steel is brought in to do some serious surgery - and from what I have read about Bet365 that person is Denise Coates......
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Post by stokemark on Feb 12, 2018 15:28:24 GMT
Well your comments are ill conceived then The Coates family have enjoyed enormous financial success and the patriarch has enjoyed all of the trappings that have come from being the Chairman of a Premier League football club At the age of 80 he wants (wanted) to leave a legacy and that legacy could well mean us being pretty much back to where we started due to 'self sustainability' Forgive me if this sounds ungrateful but the pathetic way in which he has responded to the obvious issues staring him in the face, his inability to sack and them select a manager capable of at least keeping us in this league and then finally his 'we tried to sign a striker' comments at the end of the transfer window wiped away all of the good will that his initial 'second coming' generated. 'Forever grateful' ? no 'Forever regretful' more like Whether Peter Coates has acted in a professional manner in the last twelve months is a matter of opinion, but is not the the issue I am raising. Stoke City is a subsidiary of BET 365, therefore is'nt it good business sense to ensure the club is run in a sound financial way, so that the Holding Company is not forced to subsidise the losses of it's subsidiary company. The trick or issue though is how can you do that in todays PL and still remain part of it! That's the problem - We have tried 'the trick' and it doesn't work - The owners have to subsidise one way or the other (through direct loans or bank debt). The latter clearly isn't a good idea but these people are multi-millionaires who I appreciate have gone some way to getting us to where we are but you need to keep spending to stay there. Really the club should have sought other outside investment like may others of our stature have (Chinese, Asian, American etc) but I think that they were too protective of their asset. As mentioned earlier we have totally and utterly failed to get other commercial revenue streams (I believe even Bournemouth have shown greater success in terms of commercialization of their brand). The finger of blame must lie at the door of the CEO for this but again, why not bring in someone with aspiration and vision rather than the second rate accountant we currently have. Lets face it, the backroom staff are generally 'cheap' along with the management and players and we this has all resulted in the unambitious and frankly retrograde strategy of slow stagnation / regression that has got us where we are, on the brink of relegation.
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