|
Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 4, 2017 21:38:55 GMT
And Smudge's article was hardly "slamming him" was it? Compared to the actual gravity of the incident, dave, it was completely over the top. Agree. I didnt even realise Shawcross had done that. We have been shit at home for 18mths. Ryan has been a part of that. The abuse he got on that thread was uncalled for as he he has plenty of credit in the bank. The article was akin to smashing a kinder egg with a sledgehammer really imo.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 21:41:29 GMT
Yes it would but it's a totally fanciful and unrealistic thing to expect. And by the way you dodged my question I'm taking it that your answer was yes. It is probably unrealistic. I just wish we could get back to that fantastic atmosphere. Probably never going to see/hear an atmosphere as electric and all together like that first season up again. The only way we could ever recreate an atmosphere like that is if we were ever pushing for the title,which in reality won't happen in our lifetimes unfortunately.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 4, 2017 21:44:06 GMT
It was better in Smith's day. You could get your matchday ticket, six pints of Double Diamond, 20 Woodbines and a chippy tea and still get change from 50p. You mean for 10bob Denis was almost entirely decimal
|
|
|
Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 4, 2017 21:44:20 GMT
It is probably unrealistic. I just wish we could get back to that fantastic atmosphere. Probably never going to see/hear an atmosphere as electric and all together like that first season up again. The only way we could ever recreate an atmosphere like that is if we were ever pushing for the title,which in reality won't happen in our lifetimes unfortunately. We have had atmosphere like that numerous times. But it is usually when we have been wronged in some way...a bad tackle/sending off/diving by opponent.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 21:47:07 GMT
Probably never going to see/hear an atmosphere as electric and all together like that first season up again. The only way we could ever recreate an atmosphere like that is if we were ever pushing for the title,which in reality won't happen in our lifetimes unfortunately. We have had atmosphere like that numerous times. But it is usually when we have been wronged in some way...a bad tackle/sending off/diving by opponent. Not for a good while mate to be fair. It does rear it's head everyou now and then but it's been a while and our crowd is pretty much like most others in this league where the atmosphere is good if the football is good.
|
|
|
Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 4, 2017 21:50:13 GMT
We have had atmosphere like that numerous times. But it is usually when we have been wronged in some way...a bad tackle/sending off/diving by opponent. Not for a good while mate to be fair. It does rear it's head everyou now and then but it's been a while and our crowd is pretty much like most others in this league where the atmosphere is good if the football is good. I think our atmosphere is only ever good when a bad tackle flies in/we have a man sent off or opponent dives/cheats. I dont think our atmosphere gets ruled by flowing football ever.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 21:56:13 GMT
Not for a good while mate to be fair. It does rear it's head everyou now and then but it's been a while and our crowd is pretty much like most others in this league where the atmosphere is good if the football is good. I think our atmosphere is only ever good when a bad tackle flies in/we have a man sent off or opponent dives/cheats. I dont think our atmosphere gets ruled by flowing football ever. I disagree. If our team came out of the blocks flying and all over a team,shots flying in and going a couple up early doors the atmosphere would be good,not rocking like it used to but good. It was good against Man Utd and Man City last season wasn't it?
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Jan 4, 2017 22:03:35 GMT
Over the top and uncalled for. He who pays the piper calls the tune. It isn't uncalled for. Ryan had to expect a reaction for calling out the fans. That's exactly what he got. It's naive to assume anything else. It's the interpretation of Ryan's reaction that I am questioning. It's naive to believe everyone has the same interpretation as you and Smudge. Why do you need to single it out in a newspaper article which will inevitably attract unwanted negative attention?
|
|
|
Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 4, 2017 22:03:42 GMT
I think our atmosphere is only ever good when a bad tackle flies in/we have a man sent off or opponent dives/cheats. I dont think our atmosphere gets ruled by flowing football ever. I disagree. If our team came out of the blocks flying and all over a team,shots flying in and going a couple up early doors the atmosphere would be good,not rocking like it used to but good. It was good against Man Utd and Man City last season wasn't it? Thats probably why I never notice the atmosphere unless there is a sending off etc etc as we rarely ever fly out the blocks!!! 😁
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 22:04:34 GMT
I disagree. If our team came out of the blocks flying and all over a team,shots flying in and going a couple up early doors the atmosphere would be good,not rocking like it used to but good. It was good against Man Utd and Man City last season wasn't it? Thats probably why I never notice the atmosphere unless there is a sending off etc etc as we rarely ever fly out the blocks!!! 😁 Why do you think I used two examples from early last season
|
|
|
Post by orfyboothen on Jan 4, 2017 22:05:01 GMT
Absolutely spot on. Not read the other pages yet but some people need to get a grip. Yes, the captain cupped his ear, maybe not the right thing to do but if he hadn't of scored how many people would have booed the team off. Ryan Shawcross has been an absolute colossus since joining. He is not free from criticism, nor is any player. At least at the end of the game he claps the support, at least 60% wouldn't realise this as they have already left (no criticism intended, no dick measuring etc). We all come to see Stoke win, why don't we give 100% vocal support instead of waiting for some contentious decision to get going. It is now a library and every away teams fans take the piss. They don't even sing 'Where's your famous atmosphere'. So before we slag off our captain, ask yourself did you give 100% support? (and before anyone says we pay our hard earned money to watch, you also want your team to win). So lets stop criticising players who actually give a toss and get behind the team. Just a question.. In your opinion does every single fan who pays their hard earned money to watch the games have to sing and shout encouragement to the team at the top of their voices? They don't have to but it would be bloody good if they did! Exhaustive social media comment can never improve a team's performance but crowd noise definitely helps - many ex players of ours say as much.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 22:05:32 GMT
Must be frustrating for shawcross and other players when we have some of the worst fans in the prem
|
|
|
Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 22:06:37 GMT
It isn't uncalled for. Ryan had to expect a reaction for calling out the fans. That's exactly what he got. It's naive to assume anything else. It's the interpretation of Ryan's reaction that I am questioning. It's naive to believe everyone has the same interpretation as you and Smudge. Why do you need to single it out in a newspaper article which will inevitably attract unwanted negative attention? So you think it's just me and Smudge, and absolutely nobody else? Do you understand the meaning of the word "naive"? 😂😂😂
|
|
|
Post by thehoof on Jan 4, 2017 22:09:21 GMT
I am in Smudge's camp on this one. Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, too often lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Now, even our captain and club legend is cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan? Shawcross should do what a lot of fans seem to want. Slap in a transfer request- there are better sides than Stoke who will sign him up- Everton for starters. He's given more than any Stoke player to the club, and I'd be happy for him to be at a club where his ability is appreciated. The five page thread "Shawcross " says it all about some of our so called fans. Don't often disagree with what Smudge writes , but if that is the best he can come up with it says a lot for just how turgid games have become at Stoke these days.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 22:38:58 GMT
Just a question.. In your opinion does every single fan who pays their hard earned money to watch the games have to sing and shout encouragement to the team at the top of their voices? They don't have to but it would be bloody good if they did! Exhaustive social media comment can never improve a team's performance but crowd noise definitely helps - many ex players of ours say as much. It would be good but does that happen anywhere? Certainly not in this country it doesn't. Good vocal support in this country has pretty much always gone hand in hand with your team being on top in games or when you get something to cheer,like a corner or a great save or something along those lines. We as a group of supporters are no different to any other in this league/country and it's definitely a two way Street when it comes to atmosphere being given generated most of the time. Whether that is right or wrong is debatable but in my opinion that's how it is.
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Jan 4, 2017 22:47:18 GMT
It's the interpretation of Ryan's reaction that I am questioning. It's naive to believe everyone has the same interpretation as you and Smudge. Why do you need to single it out in a newspaper article which will inevitably attract unwanted negative attention? So you think it's just me and Smudge, and absolutely nobody else? Do you understand the meaning of the word "naive"? 😂😂😂 Where have I said only you and Smudge? Only you & smudge write for the sentinel. I admire your loyalty. Pity you can't show some to Ryan.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 23:15:15 GMT
It is some time since I read Stanley Mathews Biography. And memory plays tricks on me sometimes. However I think the story went like this. When John Ritchie played his first game at the Victoria Ground, just before kick off Stan lead him over to the Boothen End. He pointed to the sea of faces looking out onto the pitch and said "never forget that these people pay your wages" (or something like that). Well it may not be totally true today. But I think Mr Shawcross shouls have a good long look at himself. Perhaps he should read Stan's biography.
|
|
|
Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 23:17:43 GMT
So you think it's just me and Smudge, and absolutely nobody else? Do you understand the meaning of the word "naive"? 😂😂😂 Where have I said only you and Smudge? Only you & smudge write for the sentinel. I admire your loyalty. Pity you can't show some to Ryan. I don't write for the sentinel. And Ryan has my loyalty. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/264177/shawcross?page=3
|
|
|
Post by block23 on Jan 4, 2017 23:23:53 GMT
It is some time since I read Stanley Mathews Biography. And memory plays tricks on me sometimes. However I think the story went like this. When John Ritchie played his first game at the Victoria Ground, just before kick off Stan lead him over to the Boothen End. He pointed to the sea of faces looking out onto the pitch and said "never forget that these people pay your wages" (or something like that). Well it may not be totally true today. But I think Mr Shawcross shouls have a good long look at himself. Perhaps he should read Stan's biography. Oh FFS, drama queen. Ryan has put his body on the line many many times for our club. Yes he is paid for it, but he us a dying breed in modern football. Get a grip and show our captain some loyalty. This is getting pathetic
|
|
|
Post by senojbor on Jan 5, 2017 0:32:16 GMT
Ryan is a marked man by many referees. His sending off at Sunderland and the ridiculous penalty against him against Man City have taken the edge off his game. His injury problems haven't helped either. He is still a class player in my eyes. I think Smudge should have raised other issues about the game that fans are more concerned about.
|
|
|
Post by peterthornesboots on Jan 5, 2017 0:53:44 GMT
Supporters constantly slate the players, boo them off the pitch and leave early - and then moan when Ryan cups an ear.
Don't give it out if you can't take it!
*winkyface*
|
|
|
Post by Gob Bluth on Jan 5, 2017 1:20:20 GMT
It is some time since I read Stanley Mathews Biography. And memory plays tricks on me sometimes. However I think the story went like this. When John Ritchie played his first game at the Victoria Ground, just before kick off Stan lead him over to the Boothen End. He pointed to the sea of faces looking out onto the pitch and said "never forget that these people pay your wages" (or something like that). Well it may not be totally true today. But I think Mr Shawcross shouls have a good long look at himself. Perhaps he should read Stan's biography. With most transactions each party gets their reward, we pay Ryan and we get his services. This started when he left Manchester United to join a team that had never been promoted to the Premiership and while we were pushing for promotion it was a long way off. It was a massive risk that he played with his career. Since signing him I think this is the first time his form has properly been questioned, I recall he was dropped at Coventry but he was still a young lad. That's the best part of ten years of good form and during that form we as a set of fans believe he should have had an England call up. It's been mentioned before but if that's not credit in the bank I don't think I'll ever see it at Stoke in my life time. I also base my thoughts on the belief that if Ryan wanted he could have moved to a bigger club and we would have struggled to find a replacement, meaning we'd be paying similar wages to someone not as consistent. With that in mind would Ryan really be that grateful? His choice isn't whether to play for Stoke or get a normal job, his decision is whether to stay at Stoke or try and move to a club above us such as Everton who I guess would like the chance to sign him. This could be completely wrong but I can't think of any Stoke player who's been as consistent as Ryan for as long as he has (I'm 34). Take Stein for example, when he returned to Stoke on loan he didn't carry the same threat and that was only a few years later. Re Smudge, the best way to draw a line under it would to be ignore it rather than get the last word in. It could be argued that while the Club Captain's job isn't to confront the fans it could also be said that as a fan of high profile it's your job to back the captain and empathise with his frustration and put it down to a one off incident.
|
|
|
Post by NassauDave on Jan 5, 2017 4:25:20 GMT
Smudge is right.
Ryans comments were at best childish and not becoming of our captain.
He,and the rest of our back four have been atrocious for far too long this season. They get paid handsomely to simply do their jobs and they have been performing very poorly end of.
Much of the season has been head in hands stuff watching our defence, and supporters are entitled to their say.
|
|
|
Post by nottinghamstokie on Jan 5, 2017 6:51:23 GMT
Never met Ryan, never will, but he's never struck me as "the brightest" so not surprised at his reaction
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 5, 2017 9:41:14 GMT
So for a gesture that lasted less than one second, not only is he a selfish bastard causing disharmony amongst his colleagues and the fans, he's also as thick as pigshit.
Welcome to Stoke fans 2017 style!
I'd go somewhere that appreciates you if I were you, Ryan. Just like the West Brazillans of yore, some morons really have bought into this Stokealona hogwash.
|
|
|
Post by andylgr on Jan 5, 2017 10:11:29 GMT
Smudge is right. Ryans comments were at best childish and not becoming of our captain. He,and the rest of our back four have been atrocious for far too long this season. They get paid handsomely to simply do their jobs and they have been performing very poorly end of. Much of the season has been head in hands stuff watching our defence, and supporters are entitled to their say. On the other side of the coin the captain arguably has the right to come out and speak on behalf of the players and if they've noticed the atmosphere and the comments then why not mention it too? Its a more straight forward and to the point way of saying they need the fans behind them. Putting aside his interview for a second, I didn't come on the forum after the game, but was Ryans gesture mentioned on here prior to Smudges article? I'm not sure a big deal needing making of it unless someone was looking to create some headlines for themselves.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 10:16:10 GMT
Smudge is right. Ryans comments were at best childish and not becoming of our captain. He,and the rest of our back four have been atrocious for far too long this season. They get paid handsomely to simply do their jobs and they have been performing very poorly end of. Much of the season has been head in hands stuff watching our defence, and supporters are entitled to their say. On the other side of the coin the captain arguably has the right to come out and speak on behalf of the players and if they've noticed the atmosphere and the comments then why not mention it too? Its a more straight forward and to the point way of saying they need the fans behind them. Putting aside his interview for a second, I didn't come on the forum after the game, but was Ryans gesture mentioned on here prior to Smudges article? I'm not sure a big deal needing making of it unless someone was looking to create some headlines for themselves. He's hardly had cutting criticism has he? Christ, he's got thin skin if he thinks what he has had is bad. He should have seen the right hook John Clark got coming off the bus after an away match at Bolton (or was it Barnsley?) all those years ago. The worst critic in all this is the manager, who has slammed his team (including Ryan) in interviews for basic errors. Why not run over to the dugout cupping his ears? As for speaking out. He's no Vince Overson is he, who really grasped the nettle and gave the whole club a shake!?
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 5, 2017 10:18:25 GMT
Smudge is right. Ryans comments were at best childish and not becoming of our captain. He,and the rest of our back four have been atrocious for far too long this season. They get paid handsomely to simply do their jobs and they have been performing very poorly end of. Much of the season has been head in hands stuff watching our defence, and supporters are entitled to their say. On the other side of the coin the captain arguably has the right to come out and speak on behalf of the players and if they've noticed the atmosphere and the comments then why not mention it too? Its a more straight forward and to the point way of saying they need the fans behind them. Putting aside his interview for a second, I didn't come on the forum after the game, but was Ryans gesture mentioned on here prior to Smudges article? I'm not sure a big deal needing making of it unless someone was looking to create some headlines for themselves.
Yes.
oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/264177/shawcross?page=4
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 5, 2017 10:22:39 GMT
It was a complete non issue until it appeared in The Sentinel
|
|
|
Post by andylgr on Jan 5, 2017 10:28:17 GMT
On the other side of the coin the captain arguably has the right to come out and speak on behalf of the players and if they've noticed the atmosphere and the comments then why not mention it too? Its a more straight forward and to the point way of saying they need the fans behind them. Putting aside his interview for a second, I didn't come on the forum after the game, but was Ryans gesture mentioned on here prior to Smudges article? I'm not sure a big deal needing making of it unless someone was looking to create some headlines for themselves. He's hardly had cutting criticism has he? Christ, he's got thin skin if he thinks what he has had is bad. He should have seen the right hook John Clark got coming off the bus after an away match at Bolton (or was it Barnsley?) all those years ago. The worst critic in all this is the manager, who has slammed his team (including Ryan) in interviews for basic errors. Why not run over to the dugout cupping his ears? As for speaking out. He's no Vince Overson is he, who really grasped the nettle and gave the whole club a shake!? It doesn't matter so much about what criticism he may have had from fans, I'm just saying that as captain I have no problem in him coming out and saying the players have noticed the stick they are getting. During the game I thought the brief cupping of the ears was due to the crowd getting on the players backs during the game and probably some of the others too. Maybe thats been building if hes been geting stick on here or social media too. Vince Overson, what a fucking great captain he was! My favourite era in my 35 years of supporting Stoke. It was a complete non issue until it appeared in The Sentinel Pretty much what I thought too.
|
|