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Post by chayzenbacon on Jan 4, 2017 10:57:51 GMT
For me, the fact that we're beating the shit teams (Palace apart but there was something weird going on that day) is a cause for celebration because in previous seasons we've often slipped up against them.
However the days of starting with Crouch and Walters should be well behind us by now. It's more an indictment of our transfer team than of Hughes though isn't it?
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 11:13:01 GMT
For me, the fact that we're beating the shit teams (Palace apart but there was something weird going on that day) is a cause for celebration because in previous seasons we've often slipped up against them. However the days of starting with Crouch and Walters should be well behind us by now. It's more an indictment of our transfer team than of Hughes though isn't it? The transfer team that he's part of, Coates has been clear that he has the final say on the players he wants. Its his problem, he's bought them in now he's scared of playing them.
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Post by chayzenbacon on Jan 4, 2017 11:25:38 GMT
For me, the fact that we're beating the shit teams (Palace apart but there was something weird going on that day) is a cause for celebration because in previous seasons we've often slipped up against them. However the days of starting with Crouch and Walters should be well behind us by now. It's more an indictment of our transfer team than of Hughes though isn't it? The transfer team that he's part of, Coates has been clear that he has the final say on the players he wants. Its his problem, he's bought them in now he's scared of playing them. I know it's reported that he has the final say but I'm still not ready to write Hughes off completely like some, I don't know whether that applies to you or not Alster. Maybe, having apparently realised that too many of the flair players lack balls/heart/etc, he needs to say no more often to the names put in front of him by Cartwright & co. There are players with flair and balls out there, we play against them every week and many of them have cost no more than the likes Shaqiri and Imbula, often less. I suppose the question is, would we have signed more flair players that are up for it if Hughes was entirely responsible for transfers instead of having to sift through targets which are put in front of him? Maybe he's repeating failings from his QPR days where players were also touted by individuals other than himself, maybe he needs to rediscover the balls he had as a player and tell the transfer team bollocks.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 11:33:51 GMT
The transfer team that he's part of, Coates has been clear that he has the final say on the players he wants. Its his problem, he's bought them in now he's scared of playing them. I know it's reported that he has the final say but I'm still not ready to write Hughes off completely like some, I don't know whether that applies to you or not Alster. Maybe, having apparently realised that too many of the flair players lack balls/heart/etc, he needs to say no more often to the names put in front of him by Cartwright & co. There are players with flair and balls out there, we play against them every week and many of them have cost no more than the likes Shaqiri and Imbula, often less. I suppose the question is, would we have signed more flair players that are up for it if Hughes was entirely responsible for transfers instead of having to sift through targets which are put in front of him? Maybe he's repeating failings from his QPR days where players were also touted by individuals other than himself, maybe he needs to rediscover the balls he had as a player and tell the transfer team bollocks. He's lost me I'm afraid I've no confidence he's got the balls to play the sort of football he was bought here to produce and did for his first 2 seasons. I'm open to a change of heart but every week that passes he seems to be pissing me off more and more.
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Post by chayzenbacon on Jan 4, 2017 11:46:50 GMT
I know it's reported that he has the final say but I'm still not ready to write Hughes off completely like some, I don't know whether that applies to you or not Alster. Maybe, having apparently realised that too many of the flair players lack balls/heart/etc, he needs to say no more often to the names put in front of him by Cartwright & co. There are players with flair and balls out there, we play against them every week and many of them have cost no more than the likes Shaqiri and Imbula, often less. I suppose the question is, would we have signed more flair players that are up for it if Hughes was entirely responsible for transfers instead of having to sift through targets which are put in front of him? Maybe he's repeating failings from his QPR days where players were also touted by individuals other than himself, maybe he needs to rediscover the balls he had as a player and tell the transfer team bollocks. He's lost me I'm afraid I've no confidence he's got the balls to play the sort of football he was bought here to produce and did for his first 2 seasons. I'm open to a change of heart but every week that passes he seems to be pissing me off more and more. You're not alone and keeping the faith isn't easy, I'm hanging on in there for now though. January window is crucial, I don't want us starting with Crouch & Walters and I don't want us starting with only 3 recognised defenders and none on the bench come February.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 11:51:29 GMT
He's lost me I'm afraid I've no confidence he's got the balls to play the sort of football he was bought here to produce and did for his first 2 seasons. I'm open to a change of heart but every week that passes he seems to be pissing me off more and more. You're not alone and keeping the faith isn't easy, I'm hanging on in there for now though. January window is crucial, I don't want us starting with Crouch & Walters and I don't want us starting with only 3 recognised defenders and none on the bench come February. Squad is a complete mess and he just makes it worse with his team selection, tactics and substitutions.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Jan 4, 2017 13:25:54 GMT
The issue is complacency. The only teams who currently have been in this league longer than us currently are the top 7 and Sunderland. Everybody else has even been relegated or recently won promotion.
The moment we become happy to just finish midtable is the moment relegation becomes a big risk.
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Post by MrFlirty on Jan 4, 2017 13:30:25 GMT
unfortunately, that famous game against Man city when we made them look totally inferior is etched in our minds. we have glimpsed what could be and we are forever hoping they will click like they did that day. I would love us to have a fully fit squad, a settled side and a good mix of flair and hard work and then see what hughes is really capable of doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 13:31:43 GMT
Can I ask a,serious question? Other than an absolutely abysmal Watford team do you think tonight's performance would have produced 3 points against any other premier league team? Your 'absolutely abysmal Watford team' were 7th last month and above us going in to tonight so 'yes' is the answer to that. Oh hang on, don't tell me, they saved the 'abysmal' performance for when they played us They had 10 first team players missing....
They were still clean through on goal at least twice and could/should have scored .
The team they had last night top to bottom was without question the worst we've played this season.
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Post by andylgr on Jan 4, 2017 13:34:57 GMT
Your 'absolutely abysmal Watford team' were 7th last month and above us going in to tonight so 'yes' is the answer to that. Oh hang on, don't tell me, they saved the 'abysmal' performance for when they played us They had 10 first team players missing....
They were still clean through on goal at least twice and could/should have scored .
The team they had last night top to bottom was without question the worst we've played this season.
But they didn't score did they, so whats your point? We played badly and still beat them and had Walters got his shooting boots on he could have had a hat trick himself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 13:48:00 GMT
You're not alone and keeping the faith isn't easy, I'm hanging on in there for now though. January window is crucial, I don't want us starting with Crouch & Walters and I don't want us starting with only 3 recognised defenders and none on the bench come February. Squad is a complete mess and he just makes it worse with his team selection, tactics and substitutions. I'm in total agreement with you Alster, and quite a few other supporters are as well judging by the recent posts on the Oatie. I have lost all confidence in Hughes, after being 100% in support of him during his first couple of seasons here. We seem to be regressing and as you say his team selection, formation, tactics and substitutions generally leave me wondering what the hell he's doing. The style of football has changed so much from those heady Stokelona days to the team that played last night. Defensively we have been all over the place, and preferring Crouch and Walters as our strike firce is a telling indictment on the recent transfer policy. The expensive signings are no longer first choice, having dramatically under performed. Sobhi can't really get on tbe pitch apart from a few minutes here and there, and overall we are left with a slow, ageing, unbalanced, team/squad with major work needed in the next couple of transfer windows to restructure it. I am no longer confident that Hughes is the manager to take us any further as it all seems to be stagnating with no real signs of progression.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 13:50:58 GMT
They had 10 first team players missing....
They were still clean through on goal at least twice and could/should have scored .
The team they had last night top to bottom was without question the worst we've played this season.
But they didn't score did they, so whats your point? We played badly and still beat them and had Walters got his shooting boots on he could have had a hat trick himself. The point is we still struggled at times against a piss poor side and if I had any teeth I would have been biting my nails in a game that should have been safe.
Did you not see their manager having a heart attack at the missed opportunities they created. Do you think other teams will miss the same level of opportunity?
Was I the only one who thought Diouf could have seen red for his wrestling match challenge?
The POINT as you put it is we have sooooo much work to do to get back to anything like the levels of last season and anyone who thinks last night did anything other than paper over cracks is deluding themselves.
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Post by andylgr on Jan 4, 2017 13:55:20 GMT
But they didn't score did they, so whats your point? We played badly and still beat them and had Walters got his shooting boots on he could have had a hat trick himself. The point is we still struggled at times against a piss poor side and if I had any teeth I would have been biting my nails in a game that should have been safe.
Did you not see their manager having a heart attack at the missed opportunities they created. Do you think other teams will miss the same level of opportunity?
Was I the only one who thought Diouf could have seen red for his wrestling match challenge?
The POINT as you put it is we have sooooo much work to do to get back to anything like the levels of last season and anyone who thinks last night did anything other than paper over cracks is deluding themselves.
Agreed we are nowhere near the levels of last season. But we still beat them, and arguably should have scored more.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 13:56:21 GMT
Hughes's new-found pragmatism seems to have been lost on plenty of the denizens of the Oatcake.
Not a great performance last night, but we would have lost that fixture in other seasons. We're far too obsessed with playing the big-money signings just because they cost big money. You play players, not egos.
Who's to say that the almighty Shaqiri, with his near non-existent workrate off the ball, wouldn't have contributed to a draw or even a loss yesterday? I'm not Jon Walters's biggest fan, and his defensive contributions are a little overrated - but it makes us more solid as a team, at the expense of blunting our attack occasionally. I'd say that's required against teams like Watford last night who come to simply break up play and catch us out on the break or via mistakes.
I don't think half the individuals on this forum really understand pragmatism; instead, sure - let's play our most expensive 11 (making sure to include the big names) each game and stick to just effortless lovely flowing football to appease the fans. I'd like to see how far we'd get with that.
We won ugly yesterday, and it was disjointed for long spells - but it's still a win. Chelsea's recent 1-0 wins didn't strike me as wholly convincing whilst I watched them, but it's still enabled them to be in an incredibly strong position going forward.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 14:00:46 GMT
Typical premiership supporters I can't believe some of the comments on here and on Radio Stoke tonight We just beat a team who were above us in the League, we kept a clean sheet, we scored 2 and could easily have had 4 But that's not good enough anymore. We must wallop teams like Watford by 5 or 6. And In the process we have to play like a mixture of Real Madrid and BarcelonaGet Real. We're a lot better than the strugglers at the bottom we're a lot worse than the top 6. It's virtually impossible these days to do anything better so WTF do some people want !!! Occasionally we will click and tonk somebody but in this League that's going to be a rare occurrence. Let's be thankful for what we have because as someone who's been there for the last 53 years I know it can be much much worse than this Rant over Who said that?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 14:05:18 GMT
1990-91 Final League Table League 1 (Old Division 3) Pos Club P W D L F A GD Pts 1 Cambridge United 46 25 11 10 75 45 +25 86 2 Southend United 46 26 7 13 67 51 +16 85 3 Grimsby Town 46 24 11 11 66 34 +32 83 4 Bolton Wanderers 46 24 11 11 64 50 +14 83 5 Tranmere Rovers 46 23 9 14 64 46 +18 78 6 Brentford 46 21 13 12 59 47 +12 76 7 Bury 46 20 13 13 59 47 +12 76 8 Bradford City 46 20 10 16 62 54 +8 70 9 Bournemouth 46 19 13 14 58 58 0 70 10 Wigan Athletic 46 20 9 17 61 54 +7 69 11 Huddersfield Town 46 18 13 15 57 51 +6 67 12 Birmingham City 46 16 17 13 45 49 –4 65 13 Leyton Orient 46 18 10 18 55 58 –3 64 14 Stoke City 46 16 12 18 55 59 –4 60 15 Reading 46 17 8 21 53 66 –13 59 16 Exeter City 46 16 9 21 58 52 +6 57 17 Preston North End 46 15 11 20 54 67 –13 56 18 Shrewsbury Town 46 14 10 22 61 68 –7 52 19 Chester City 46 14 9 23 46 58 –14 51 20 Swansea City 46 13 9 24 49 72 –23 48 21 Fulham 46 10 16 20 41 56 –15 46 22 Crewe Alexandra 46 11 11 24 62 80 –18 44 23 Rotherham United 46 10 12 24 50 87 –37 42 24 Mansfield Town 46 8 14 24 42 63 –21 38 and...?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 14:14:53 GMT
We have the best and worst fans in the prem.....the worst seem to be on here and radio stoke....they are usually extremists who havent got clue
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Post by Birchesheadpotter on Jan 4, 2017 14:22:15 GMT
We have the best and worst fans in the prem.....the worst seem to be on here and radio stoke....they are usually extremists who havent got clue Out of interest, where are the best?
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Jan 4, 2017 16:45:32 GMT
Three points, but sorry, I came away disappointed. Not at all happy with the performance, again. This is bottom of the table garbage we are playing at this moment in time. Sorry if that upsets people, but I believe that I'm a realist, and the reality is, that was another poor performance against a very poor, injury hit side. Surely we are better than this! Remember a few years back when we struggled to beat bottom of the table Portsmouth by a single goal in the second half? That's life, we are not consistent at the moment (seemingly suicidal at the back at times) and we need to sort our strikers out this month. On a positive note glad of the three points and Affelay looked up for it. Onwards and upwards.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 17:41:21 GMT
Three points, but sorry, I came away disappointed. Not at all happy with the performance, again. This is bottom of the table garbage we are playing at this moment in time. Sorry if that upsets people, but I believe that I'm a realist, and the reality is, that was another poor performance against a very poor, injury hit side. Surely we are better than this! Remember a few years back when we struggled to beat bottom of the table Portsmouth by a single goal in the second half? That's life, we are not consistent at the moment (seemingly suicidal at the back at times) and we need to sort our strikers out this month. On a positive note glad of the three points and Affelay looked up for it. Onwards and upwards. Well we're fairly consistent at something we're consistently dismal to watch at home.
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Post by stokiesteve on Jan 4, 2017 20:36:27 GMT
1990-91 Final League Table League 1 (Old Division 3) Pos Club P W D L F A GD Pts 1 Cambridge United 46 25 11 10 75 45 +25 86 2 Southend United 46 26 7 13 67 51 +16 85 3 Grimsby Town 46 24 11 11 66 34 +32 83 4 Bolton Wanderers 46 24 11 11 64 50 +14 83 5 Tranmere Rovers 46 23 9 14 64 46 +18 78 6 Brentford 46 21 13 12 59 47 +12 76 7 Bury 46 20 13 13 59 47 +12 76 8 Bradford City 46 20 10 16 62 54 +8 70 9 Bournemouth 46 19 13 14 58 58 0 70 10 Wigan Athletic 46 20 9 17 61 54 +7 69 11 Huddersfield Town 46 18 13 15 57 51 +6 67 12 Birmingham City 46 16 17 13 45 49 –4 65 13 Leyton Orient 46 18 10 18 55 58 –3 64 14 Stoke City 46 16 12 18 55 59 –4 60 15 Reading 46 17 8 21 53 66 –13 59 16 Exeter City 46 16 9 21 58 52 +6 57 17 Preston North End 46 15 11 20 54 67 –13 56 18 Shrewsbury Town 46 14 10 22 61 68 –7 52 19 Chester City 46 14 9 23 46 58 –14 51 20 Swansea City 46 13 9 24 49 72 –23 48 21 Fulham 46 10 16 20 41 56 –15 46 22 Crewe Alexandra 46 11 11 24 62 80 –18 44 23 Rotherham United 46 10 12 24 50 87 –37 42 24 Mansfield Town 46 8 14 24 42 63 –21 38 and...? Its obvious really when you look at the context of the discussion
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Post by stokiesteve on Jan 4, 2017 20:38:05 GMT
1990-91 Final League Table League 1 (Old Division 3) Pos Club P W D L F A GD Pts 1 Cambridge United 46 25 11 10 75 45 +25 86 2 Southend United 46 26 7 13 67 51 +16 85 3 Grimsby Town 46 24 11 11 66 34 +32 83 4 Bolton Wanderers 46 24 11 11 64 50 +14 83 5 Tranmere Rovers 46 23 9 14 64 46 +18 78 6 Brentford 46 21 13 12 59 47 +12 76 7 Bury 46 20 13 13 59 47 +12 76 8 Bradford City 46 20 10 16 62 54 +8 70 9 Bournemouth 46 19 13 14 58 58 0 70 10 Wigan Athletic 46 20 9 17 61 54 +7 69 11 Huddersfield Town 46 18 13 15 57 51 +6 67 12 Birmingham City 46 16 17 13 45 49 –4 65 13 Leyton Orient 46 18 10 18 55 58 –3 64 14 Stoke City 46 16 12 18 55 59 –4 60 15 Reading 46 17 8 21 53 66 –13 59 16 Exeter City 46 16 9 21 58 52 +6 57 17 Preston North End 46 15 11 20 54 67 –13 56 18 Shrewsbury Town 46 14 10 22 61 68 –7 52 19 Chester City 46 14 9 23 46 58 –14 51 20 Swansea City 46 13 9 24 49 72 –23 48 21 Fulham 46 10 16 20 41 56 –15 46 22 Crewe Alexandra 46 11 11 24 62 80 –18 44 23 Rotherham United 46 10 12 24 50 87 –37 42 24 Mansfield Town 46 8 14 24 42 63 –21 38 Not really relevant, is it? It's relevant in every way. We are light years ahead of where we once were and yet we still moan. Every club has patches, we have had three great years with Hughes and now we all moan as the team isn't gelling at the moment.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jan 4, 2017 20:41:29 GMT
Hughes's new-found pragmatism seems to have been lost on plenty of the denizens of the Oatcake. Not a great performance last night, but we would have lost that fixture in other seasons. We're far too obsessed with playing the big-money signings just because they cost big money. You play players, not egos. Who's to say that the almighty Shaqiri, with his near non-existent workrate off the ball, wouldn't have contributed to a draw or even a loss yesterday? I'm not Jon Walters's biggest fan, and his defensive contributions are a little overrated - but it makes us more solid as a team, at the expense of blunting our attack occasionally. I'd say that's required against teams like Watford last night who come to simply break up play and catch us out on the break or via mistakes. I don't think half the individuals on this forum really understand pragmatism; instead, sure - let's play our most expensive 11 (making sure to include the big names) each game and stick to just effortless lovely flowing football to appease the fans. I'd like to see how far we'd get with that. We won ugly yesterday, and it was disjointed for long spells - but it's still a win. Chelsea's recent 1-0 wins didn't strike me as wholly convincing whilst I watched them, but it's still enabled them to be in an incredibly strong position going forward. Tell me one thing that Jon Walters did last night that made us harder to beat?
Playing him as some sort of inside winger, involved in the build up play, rather than Shaqiri or Bojan, is evidence of a manager who has totally lost track of what he is doing.
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Post by stokiesteve on Jan 4, 2017 20:47:37 GMT
Other than the top six, nobody in the premier league is particularly outstanding. And why would you assume Hughes has no interest in playing entertaining football? We have had nothing but for the last three seasons!! And that is down to Hughes. As has been said on here, this is an important window. The fickleness of premier fans is that when things go wrong, intact any football fan in any league in England, we all moan. So I suppose these sort of threads and the comments on them should be expected. Are you actually attending the games? We haven't played attractive football for a year and that was only a brief spell preceeded by 3/4 months of dross. Hughes lost his idea of playing fast paced attacking football and found a penchant for megalomania around 18 months ago and we're much poorer for it. Does any club of our size in the Premier League manage to play attractive attacking football week in week out? There is so much at stake nowadays everyone is anxious about staying in the division. I think Hughes deserves more credit for how he has tried to bring flair to the side. Granted its not amazing at the moment, and not all that good to watch at times, but it isn't that bad either and I think supporters and too quick to moan. We need to wait and see what happens in the window in my opinion
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 21:01:45 GMT
Its obvious really when you look at the context of the discussion Puts things into perspective. Too many entitled JCL whiners and people who expect to get off the car parks like it's a weekday afternoon at a small town Sainsburys. Unreal. Lots of reasoned fair criticism around but it's overshadowed by unnecessary drama. Back in the day we used to walk down from the Brit into town. After watching dross in front of 13,000 people. Now everyone expects a red carpet to be rolled out for them, and a private reserved parking spot.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 4, 2017 21:02:01 GMT
Are you actually attending the games? We haven't played attractive football for a year and that was only a brief spell preceeded by 3/4 months of dross. Hughes lost his idea of playing fast paced attacking football and found a penchant for megalomania around 18 months ago and we're much poorer for it. Does any club of our size in the Premier League manage to play attractive attacking football week in week out? There is so much at stake nowadays everyone is anxious about staying in the division. I think Hughes deserves more credit for how he has tried to bring flair to the side. Granted its not amazing at the moment, and not all that good to watch at times, but it isn't that bad either and I think supporters and too quick to moan. We need to wait and see what happens in the window in my opinion He has failed to harness that flair though, 3yrs on and still playing Crouch and Walters....due to not knowing his best side, not trusting many of his own signings and not having the balls to stick to a side and run with it (especially the lone forward role). He worries me at the moment.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 21:52:36 GMT
Are you actually attending the games? We haven't played attractive football for a year and that was only a brief spell preceeded by 3/4 months of dross. Hughes lost his idea of playing fast paced attacking football and found a penchant for megalomania around 18 months ago and we're much poorer for it. Does any club of our size in the Premier League manage to play attractive attacking football week in week out? There is so much at stake nowadays everyone is anxious about staying in the division. I think Hughes deserves more credit for how he has tried to bring flair to the side. Granted its not amazing at the moment, and not all that good to watch at times, but it isn't that bad either and I think supporters and too quick to moan. We need to wait and see what happens in the window in my opinion I haven't advocated doing anything other than waiting and seeing what happens in the window and until the end of the season I'm not into changing managers mid season unless a team is in absolute crisis We're not.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Jan 4, 2017 22:05:41 GMT
Typical premiership supporters I can't believe some of the comments on here and on Radio Stoke tonight We just beat a team who were above us in the League, we kept a clean sheet, we scored 2 and could easily have had 4 But that's not good enough anymore. We must wallop teams like Watford by 5 or 6. And In the process we have to play like a mixture of Real Madrid and Barcelona Get Real. We're a lot better than the strugglers at the bottom we're a lot worse than the top 6. It's virtually impossible these days to do anything better so WTF do some people want !!! Occasionally we will click and tonk somebody but in this League that's going to be a rare occurrence. Let's be thankful for what we have because as someone who's been there for the last 53 years I know it can be much much worse than this Rant over oh dear can I raise a few points? 1. becoming premier league supporters as you say is hardly a bad thing - we're in our 9th year as a top flight club. We shouldn't be looking at it as little old stoke - this league has Bournemouth, Burnley, Hull & Swansea in it fgs 2. It's not just Watford it's the general play. Lumping it up is all well & good, but we've spent £££ on players to do it differently (and better). 3. Yes we all know we once lost to Nuneaton & Wycombe, but those days are over. Let's progress as a club.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 22:08:55 GMT
Its obvious really when you look at the context of the discussion Puts things into perspective. Too many entitled JCL whiners and people who expect to get off the car parks like it's a weekday afternoon at a small town Sainsburys. Unreal. Lots of reasoned fair criticism around but it's overshadowed by unnecessary drama. Back in the day we used to walk down from the Brit into town. After watching dross in front of 13,000 people. Now everyone expects a red carpet to be rolled out for them, and a private reserved parking spot. Yeah fancy people not wanting to sit in an hour or so worth of traffic after a football match. It also puts nothing into perspective... Stoke City have spent a fortune to separate themselves from those lower leagues. All fans ask for is an attempt to put a balanced team playing your best players in their best position and actually try and get them play some decent football. We don't have a defender on the bench for crying out loud, it's pure managerial neglect as has been most his signings of late. After all he was bought in to change our style and the direction we were going in. If we are just going to revert lumping it up to Crouch and a Walters we might as well have stuck with Pulis, at least he wouldn't have conceded 4 goals in 8 games in 2016, a PL record. I honestly wonder if all these look where we have come from brigade actually have any ambition in their personal lives as they clearly have none for the club. In fact I think most thrive on that under dog small time club mentality, it's just sad.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Jan 4, 2017 22:25:54 GMT
1990-91 Final League Table League 1 (Old Division 3) Pos Club P W D L F A GD Pts 1 Cambridge United 46 25 11 10 75 45 +25 86 2 Southend United 46 26 7 13 67 51 +16 85 3 Grimsby Town 46 24 11 11 66 34 +32 83 4 Bolton Wanderers 46 24 11 11 64 50 +14 83 5 Tranmere Rovers 46 23 9 14 64 46 +18 78 6 Brentford 46 21 13 12 59 47 +12 76 7 Bury 46 20 13 13 59 47 +12 76 8 Bradford City 46 20 10 16 62 54 +8 70 9 Bournemouth 46 19 13 14 58 58 0 70 10 Wigan Athletic 46 20 9 17 61 54 +7 69 11 Huddersfield Town 46 18 13 15 57 51 +6 67 12 Birmingham City 46 16 17 13 45 49 –4 65 13 Leyton Orient 46 18 10 18 55 58 –3 64 14 Stoke City 46 16 12 18 55 59 –4 60 15 Reading 46 17 8 21 53 66 –13 59 16 Exeter City 46 16 9 21 58 52 +6 57 17 Preston North End 46 15 11 20 54 67 –13 56 18 Shrewsbury Town 46 14 10 22 61 68 –7 52 19 Chester City 46 14 9 23 46 58 –14 51 20 Swansea City 46 13 9 24 49 72 –23 48 21 Fulham 46 10 16 20 41 56 –15 46 22 Crewe Alexandra 46 11 11 24 62 80 –18 44 23 Rotherham United 46 10 12 24 50 87 –37 42 24 Mansfield Town 46 8 14 24 42 63 –21 38 what happened in 1991 has no relevance to judging today's season. Many fans weren't born then for a start.
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