|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 11, 2015 12:58:21 GMT
Not necessarily. In 2010 when we made a meal getting out of a straightforward group alarm bells should have sounded. When we got a fiddly group in 2014 it was always going be hard. When solid underrated sides with a cohesive gameplan like Costa Rica are there it made it a tough ask. I really didn't expect lose both the first two games but that's football it happens. The rest of the world wasn't shocked by our early departure. Imagine how Italy must feel. A nation with proper stature and twice on a row they haven't got out of the group. I wasn't either but finishing behind Costa Rica will never be acceptable. I'd say we've got a better team on paper than Italy.....we just don't have the brains to beat them. The idea we have a better side on paper is borne of the Premier league hypemachine. Not having the brains to beat them is a part of the big inferiority. Players in England aren't encouraged to 'think football'. Everyone just blurts out the P word.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 13:08:00 GMT
I don't think he did. We played for a draw vs Italy and I just don't see how anyone with half a brain would do that. Play to win, it was a knockout game and we're shite at penalties and he played for them. We didn't play for a draw. We just couldn't get the ball for long enough to launch an attack. Going out to a team of their stature is certainly no disgrace. But few could argue that for 120 minutes we were outclassed by a much better team. Had we prevailed in the penalty shootout we’d have seen, to quote Bill Shankly, “A travesty of justice”. We did, we came out with no plan to attack what so ever. We didn't harry them, we didn't pressure them on the ball and it was a meek surrender.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 13:09:01 GMT
I wasn't either but finishing behind Costa Rica will never be acceptable. I'd say we've got a better team on paper than Italy.....we just don't have the brains to beat them. The idea we have a better side on paper is borne of the Premier league hypemachine. Not having the brains to beat them is a part of the big inferiority. Players in England aren't encouraged to 'think football'. Everyone just blurts out the P word. I don't think it is because I don't buy into that hype machine at all and think passion is a load of bollocks.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 11, 2015 13:09:37 GMT
Hodgson did ok in the Euros I thought. He should've gone after the World Cup yeah. I don't think he did. We played for a draw vs Italy and I just don't see how anyone with half a brain would do that. Play to win, it was a knockout game and we're shite at penalties and he played for them. I don't think we did play for a draw. They were better than us and we made it easy for Pirlo but we got through what was on paper a tricky group and got to within penalties of the semis. I don't think we'd have done much better than that whoever was in charge.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 13:13:34 GMT
I don't think he did. We played for a draw vs Italy and I just don't see how anyone with half a brain would do that. Play to win, it was a knockout game and we're shite at penalties and he played for them. I don't think we did play for a draw. They were better than us and we made it easy for Pirlo but we got through what was on paper a tricky group and got to within penalties of the semis. I don't think we'd have done much better than that whoever was in charge. We came out and sat deep with no intention to win. I never accepted that under TP, the same goes for Woy.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 11, 2015 13:15:14 GMT
I don't think we did play for a draw. They were better than us and we made it easy for Pirlo but we got through what was on paper a tricky group and got to within penalties of the semis. I don't think we'd have done much better than that whoever was in charge. We came out and sat deep with no intention to win. I never accepted that under TP, the same goes for Woy. That wasn't the game plan. We started the game positively. Both teams had their moments first half. We got progressively out-thought as the game wore on and were hanging on for dear life from the second half onwards.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 11, 2015 13:25:16 GMT
We came out and sat deep with no intention to win. I never accepted that under TP, the same goes for Woy. That wasn't the game plan. We started the game positively. Both teams had their moments first half. We got progressively out-thought as the game wore on and were hanging on for dear life from the second half onwards. We had a great chance early on when Johnsy had a shot saved. But we couldn't get near them after. Remember as well though we did manage to stifle them Also remember as wellplenty of people expected us go out in the group stage.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 11, 2015 13:26:34 GMT
That wasn't the game plan. We started the game positively. Both teams had their moments first half. We got progressively out-thought as the game wore on and were hanging on for dear life from the second half onwards. We had a great chance early on when Johnsy had a shot saved. But we couldn't get near them after. Remember as well though we did manage to stifle them Also remember as wellplenty of people expected us go out in the group stage. We were actually a lot more defensive against France in the first game.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 13:27:21 GMT
I just hated the whole thing.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 11, 2015 13:28:58 GMT
We had a great chance early on when Johnsy had a shot saved. But we couldn't get near them after. Remember as well though we did manage to stifle them Also remember as wellplenty of people expected us go out in the group stage. We were actually a lot more defensive against France in the first game. Yes we were and we played it well. We showed discipline which we aren't known for.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 13:34:07 GMT
We kept our shape well......the joys.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 11, 2015 13:35:23 GMT
We came out and sat deep with no intention to win. I never accepted that under TP, the same goes for Woy. That wasn't the game plan. We started the game positively. Both teams had their moments first half. We got progressively out-thought as the game wore on and were hanging on for dear life from the second half onwards. I remember the game as two poor teams running out of ideas before a straightforward cross into the box caught out a sleeping defence and Super Mario, who was awake, scored. Of course, both of us failed to qualify, which was no big surprise.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 11, 2015 13:36:53 GMT
That wasn't the game plan. We started the game positively. Both teams had their moments first half. We got progressively out-thought as the game wore on and were hanging on for dear life from the second half onwards. I remember the game as two poor teams running out of ideas before a straightforward cross into the box caught out a sleeping defence and Super Mario, who was awake, scored. Of course, both of us failed to qualify, which was no big surprise. This is the Euros game Partick. Not the World Cup.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 11, 2015 13:38:02 GMT
I remember the game as two poor teams running out of ideas before a straightforward cross into the box caught out a sleeping defence and Super Mario, who was awake, scored. Of course, both of us failed to qualify, which was no big surprise. This is the Euros game Partick. Not the World Cup. Oh - I get confused! Need to remember to take my tablets!
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Oct 11, 2015 13:44:17 GMT
I really have absolutely no idea what some Stoke fans want where England are concerned Don't pick Stoke players they go mental.....pick Stoke players and they still see a negative And all from people who constantly tell us they actually don't give a fuck about England !!!! I'm confused We have English fans who would rather see Ireland do well because of Walters, Whelan and Wilson than England. Now i'm as disaffected as anyone with the overhyped spoiled twats that play for our current shower but I'm English and want them to win. No disrespect to our players who play for other nations but fuck them when they are playing in the same competitions as England! H
|
|
|
Post by ChesterStokie on Oct 11, 2015 15:36:34 GMT
I disagree. And I suspect your opinion wouldn't be anywhere near as strong if Butland wasn't a Stoke player. Your suspicions are wrong - my opinion is not based on the team he plays for. Just good (and frankly rather obvious) man management - pure and simple. Goalkeeper is a unique position in football. A position where convidence is vital. Giving Butland a home start debut against a team where he'll have pretty much nothing to do except get acclimatised and build confidence seems such a no brainer I'm amazed there's any debate about doing it. If you've still any doubt - cast your mind back to Scott Carson's soul destroying full debut. How would standing around getting cold for 90 minutes against Estonia help his confidence? Jack's confidence should already be sky-high after his magnificent performances for Stoke City this season. Much better to play him in an England game where he might having something to do.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 11, 2015 16:02:55 GMT
Your suspicions are wrong - my opinion is not based on the team he plays for. Just good (and frankly rather obvious) man management - pure and simple. Goalkeeper is a unique position in football. A position where convidence is vital. Giving Butland a home start debut against a team where he'll have pretty much nothing to do except get acclimatised and build confidence seems such a no brainer I'm amazed there's any debate about doing it. If you've still any doubt - cast your mind back to Scott Carson's soul destroying full debut. How would standing around getting cold for 90 minutes against Estonia help his confidence? Jack's confidence should already be sky-high after his magnificent performances for Stoke City this season. Much better to play him in an England game where he might having something to do. He wouldn't be getting cold you muppet. He'd have his gloves on.
|
|
|
Post by vahl on Oct 12, 2015 6:59:20 GMT
A team of our stature should be able to sleepwalk the group we were handed and we win most of our matches anyway, regardless of who is the manager. Tournament football is ruthless which requires a manager with Plan A through to Z and sizeable bollocks. Woy has already shown us how stubborn he can be in these situations too and he's definitely not the sort to start 'learning' as you put it. He's old school. We can give him credit though, I guess, as he indeed changed our entire tactical approach during his time here (which IMO has been massively helped along by the technical abilities of the new generation England player - ie. he had no choice but to change what we were doing) He also knew how to get the best out of Rooney. Our stature? Our stature is we are an average nogger nation. At best a quarter final team. 66 90 and 96 are exceptions that prove the rule and in some ways they prove our mediocrity. Meh. Compared to Estonia, San Marino, Slovenia et al we have stature. That's all I meant. We are a fairly average football nation, I agree. I can't really say otherwise. Doesn't meant I want us to lose though. Come on Ingurland etc.
|
|
|
Post by Kjones9 on Oct 12, 2015 7:25:04 GMT
Now I don't care much for the national football team but are people seriously slagging hodgson off for now picking a stoke player?
Jesus wept.
|
|
|
Post by Nick1984 on Oct 12, 2015 10:14:48 GMT
Wow, the state of this thread!
|
|
|
Post by Bagwash on Oct 12, 2015 18:20:36 GMT
Brilliant to see one of ours playing for the national team.
Good Luck Jack.
GGGOOOAAAARRRNNNN
|
|
|
Post by jwhpotter on Oct 12, 2015 18:23:32 GMT
Ian wright just mentioned Shawcross and just as he was about to explain, dixon shut him down!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 18:24:14 GMT
Ian wright just mentioned Shawcross and just as he was about to explain, dixon shut him down! I think they were trying to cut to an ad break quickly.
|
|
|
Post by whydelilah on Oct 12, 2015 18:27:30 GMT
Ian wright just mentioned Shawcross and just as he was about to explain, dixon shut him down! Dixon with impeccable timing!
|
|
|
Post by jwhpotter on Oct 12, 2015 18:28:10 GMT
Ian wright just mentioned Shawcross and just as he was about to explain, dixon shut him down! I think they were trying to cut to an ad break quickly. Yea I know just annoyed me haha. Ian wright is correct though he deserves another look in (when fit)
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Oct 12, 2015 18:29:50 GMT
Now I don't care much for the national football team but are people seriously slagging hodgson off for now picking a stoke player? Jesus wept. I would always want a stoke player picked in any game. One thing i would say though on old woy is this: Just before the last world cup and woy had spent the hole season at southampton, he picked the southampton lads to play in a friendly at wembley to give some of them their debuts. After the game Woy was asked by ITV for his comments on how they performed. This is what he said. "It's always important to bed players in and to give them their debuts in a game where they are eased in, like tonight at Wembley'. Oh is that right Woy? Is that what you call Ryan's debut? Thrown in away from home against the best striker in the world at the time after he'd already tore the england defence a new one? How about Woy, playing Jack at wembley the other night like you were quoted on saying how it should be, and put Hart in tonight?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 12, 2015 18:39:45 GMT
Starting the game with no discernible defensive midfielder, interesting.
|
|
|
Post by ruts66 on Oct 12, 2015 18:43:39 GMT
Go on Jack, do yourself and us proud mate...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 18:44:31 GMT
Just come back safe and sound Jack. Nice and solid, no injuries.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Oct 12, 2015 18:44:48 GMT
The git in me would think woys ideal game would be England win and Jack fluff one on that shit artificial pitch.
|
|