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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 8:07:42 GMT
No kudos to Hodgson for this selection. Butland should have played at Wembly on Friday as well as tomorrow evening. He got a simple selection decision half right. Appropriate for an England manager who seems to possess half a brain. Perhaps he believes this will be the tougher of the two games and that he might learn a bit more about Butland in this game?
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Post by liathroid on Oct 11, 2015 8:27:17 GMT
Jack starts on the uneven, plastic pitch. With Given already injured, I have a horrible feeling about this. this is a good call
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 11, 2015 8:32:46 GMT
No kudos to Hodgson for this selection. Butland should have played at Wembly on Friday as well as tomorrow evening. He got a simple selection decision half right. Appropriate for an England manager who seems to possess half a brain. Perhaps he believes this will be the tougher of the two games and that he might learn a bit more about Butland in this game? Perhaps. If that is the case, a decent man manager would have given him the (predictably) comfortable home game to get any first night nerves out of the way before exposing him to the tougher challenge - which, as has been said, is as likely to come from the playing conditions as the opposition. Absurd not to play him in both games this international break.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 11, 2015 8:39:39 GMT
Hodgson can't win can he? Slated for not picking him, slated for picking him.
And to criticise Hart is just bizarre. We characterise this generation as pampered, spoiled little boys who don't care about playing for their country, and then there's a player who really does want to play and he gets stick for that?
The doublethink is really odd. People let their Stoke-tinted glasses totally overshadow their view of England. If we were still in the Championship there's no way Hodgson, mediocre England manager that he undoubtedly is, would get this abuse or that people would be practically herniating themselves to tell us all they don't care about England.
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Post by foxysgloves on Oct 11, 2015 8:42:09 GMT
Great news. Well deserved.
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millsey
Academy Starlet
love life love stoke city
Posts: 147
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Post by millsey on Oct 11, 2015 9:16:35 GMT
hilarious posts on ere never read so much dribble well done jack all the best
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 9:37:06 GMT
Perhaps he believes this will be the tougher of the two games and that he might learn a bit more about Butland in this game? Perhaps. If that is the case, a decent man manager would have given him the (predictably) comfortable home game to get any first night nerves out of the way before exposing him to the tougher challenge - which, as has been said, is as likely to come from the playing conditions as the opposition. Absurd not to play him in both games this international break. I disagree. And I suspect your opinion wouldn't be anywhere near as strong if Butland wasn't a Stoke player.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 9:39:33 GMT
Hodgson can't win can he? Slated for not picking him, slated for picking him. And to criticise Hart is just bizarre. We characterise this generation as pampered, spoiled little boys who don't care about playing for their country, and then there's a player who really does want to play and he gets stick for that? The doublethink is really odd. People let their Stoke-tinted glasses totally overshadow their view of England. If we were still in the Championship there's no way Hodgson, mediocre England manager that he undoubtedly is, would get this abuse or that people would be practically herniating themselves to tell us all they don't care about England. Bang on. (I've just said that in a Rik Mayall Bombardier style an all)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 10:26:01 GMT
Hodgson can't win can he? Slated for not picking him, slated for picking him. And to criticise Hart is just bizarre. We characterise this generation as pampered, spoiled little boys who don't care about playing for their country, and then there's a player who really does want to play and he gets stick for that? The doublethink is really odd. People let their Stoke-tinted glasses totally overshadow their view of England. If we were still in the Championship there's no way Hodgson, mediocre England manager that he undoubtedly is, would get this abuse or that people would be practically herniating themselves to tell us all they don't care about England. Criticising Hart for it is daft but for Woy to come out and say that wouldn't make me happy if I was Joe Hart because he's just succeeded with how it's been worded to make me look like a rayt mardarse. I think Hart in for one and Butland the other was the correct decision and Hart and had to play with the more senior players because every game he plays with them the better they will become as a unit.
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Oct 11, 2015 10:39:02 GMT
Is there anything on here people won't get bitter and twisted about. Stoke player gets picked for England. Moan moan fucking moan. Hodgson is shit, england are shit. I suggest 9 wins out of 9 might tell a different story.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 10:46:12 GMT
Is there anything on here people won't get bitter and twisted about. Stoke player gets picked for England. Moan moan fucking moan. Hodgson is shit, england are shit. I suggest 9 wins out of 9 might tell a different story. I don't think it does. We've had the easiest group and we don't look like a coherent team to me. I think we could be but not when the likes of Lallana are playing. And we miss Wilshere in the middle massively. Barkley was a bright spark but Hodgson doesn't overly rate him and he was only playing because if injury and if it was a choice between him and Lallana, he'd go Lallana. Woy showed at the Euros and World Cup that he's a poor manager when it matters. Playing for penalties at the Euros was the moment I lost it with him. An England manager playing for penalties in a knock out tournament game.
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Oct 11, 2015 10:53:56 GMT
Is there anything on here people won't get bitter and twisted about. Stoke player gets picked for England. Moan moan fucking moan. Hodgson is shit, england are shit. I suggest 9 wins out of 9 might tell a different story. I don't think it does. We've had the easiest group and we don't look like a coherent team to me. I think we could be but not when the likes of Lallana are playing. And we miss Wilshere in the middle massively. Barkley was a bright spark but Hodgson doesn't overly rate him and he was only playing because if injury and if it was a choice between him and Lallana, he'd go Lallana. Woy showed at the Euros and World Cup that he's a poor manager when it matters. Playing for penalties at the Euros was the moment I lost it with him. An England manager playing for penalties in a knock out tournament game. Sorry mate but it's results that matter to me and all you can do is keep winning. I'm not really trying to bang his drum as being an amazing manager but he's done alright this campaign and bought a lot of young players into the side. Obviously it could be a different scenario come the tournament and he could totally screw up, then again being a fairly clever bloke he might actually have learned a thing or two and put them right when it matters. We'll see. Just don't think he deserves all the grief but I'm not really a football thinker. I just see results, winning ones and think what more can he do.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 10:57:55 GMT
I don't think it does. We've had the easiest group and we don't look like a coherent team to me. I think we could be but not when the likes of Lallana are playing. And we miss Wilshere in the middle massively. Barkley was a bright spark but Hodgson doesn't overly rate him and he was only playing because if injury and if it was a choice between him and Lallana, he'd go Lallana. Woy showed at the Euros and World Cup that he's a poor manager when it matters. Playing for penalties at the Euros was the moment I lost it with him. An England manager playing for penalties in a knock out tournament game. Sorry mate but it's results that matter to me and all you can do is keep winning. I'm not really trying to bang his drum as being an amazing manager but he's done alright this campaign and bought a lot of young players into the side. Obviously it could be a different scenario come the tournament and he could totally screw up, then again being a fairly clever bloke he might actually have learned a thing or two and put them right when it matters. We'll see. Just don't think he deserves all the grief but I'm not really a football thinker. I just see results, winning ones and think what more can he do. Which is why he should have been sacked after the World Cup. I really can't abide the bloke and in my lifetime that I can remember properly (Graham Taylor misses this accolade by a year or two) he's been the worst England manager for me in that time.
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Post by RAF on Oct 11, 2015 11:05:22 GMT
Am absolutely fuming, having read The Guardian today, with reasons given by Hodgson, as to why he is leaving certain players st home. Injuries, need of a rest all ensue, followed by an apology to be leaving his blond haired boy behind. I quote. Paul Hart is being left behind 'against his will' (the apostrophes aren't mine!) because I want to see Jack Butland in goal. The only translation is that Hart has asked to keep piling up his Caps and sod the rest of the GK's behind him. What impertinence, indeed incredible arrogance. Above all, what a contrast to our number one whose talent is second only to his humility in recent interviews. His acceptance of many months of bench sitting is to be admired and am so glad that we have him in our colours, rather than Hart. And MH as our manager, rather than the blinkered Hodgson. All the more delighted however, therefore to say that during a chat, at Wembley, last night with a leading and much used and acclaimed journalist, before kick-off, he was regretting the dearth of captain material leading to Cahill's promotion. "sadly there is only one real captain in this squad, he said, "and that's Jack Butland." Wish Jack knew and maybe one of you Twitterers could mention it? Paul Hart? Surely its time for a younger man :) Bobby Robson used to call Shola Ameobi Carl Cort! H
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Post by vahl on Oct 11, 2015 11:10:17 GMT
I don't think it does. We've had the easiest group and we don't look like a coherent team to me. I think we could be but not when the likes of Lallana are playing. And we miss Wilshere in the middle massively. Barkley was a bright spark but Hodgson doesn't overly rate him and he was only playing because if injury and if it was a choice between him and Lallana, he'd go Lallana. Woy showed at the Euros and World Cup that he's a poor manager when it matters. Playing for penalties at the Euros was the moment I lost it with him. An England manager playing for penalties in a knock out tournament game. Sorry mate but it's results that matter to me and all you can do is keep winning. I'm not really trying to bang his drum as being an amazing manager but he's done alright this campaign and bought a lot of young players into the side. Obviously it could be a different scenario come the tournament and he could totally screw up, then again being a fairly clever bloke he might actually have learned a thing or two and put them right when it matters. We'll see. Just don't think he deserves all the grief but I'm not really a football thinker. I just see results, winning ones and think what more can he do. A team of our stature should be able to sleepwalk the group we were handed and we win most of our matches anyway, regardless of who is the manager. Tournament football is ruthless which requires a manager with Plan A through to Z and sizeable bollocks. Woy has already shown us how stubborn he can be in these situations too and he's definitely not the sort to start 'learning' as you put it. He's old school. We can give him credit though, I guess, as he indeed changed our entire tactical approach during his time here (which IMO has been massively helped along by the technical abilities of the new generation England player - ie. he had no choice but to change what we were doing) He also knew how to get the best out of Rooney.
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Post by whydelilah on Oct 11, 2015 11:24:33 GMT
Fuck Hodgson.
Immensely proud for Jack.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 11, 2015 11:29:24 GMT
Sorry mate but it's results that matter to me and all you can do is keep winning. I'm not really trying to bang his drum as being an amazing manager but he's done alright this campaign and bought a lot of young players into the side. Obviously it could be a different scenario come the tournament and he could totally screw up, then again being a fairly clever bloke he might actually have learned a thing or two and put them right when it matters. We'll see. Just don't think he deserves all the grief but I'm not really a football thinker. I just see results, winning ones and think what more can he do. A team of our stature should be able to sleepwalk the group we were handed and we win most of our matches anyway, regardless of who is the manager. Tournament football is ruthless which requires a manager with Plan A through to Z and sizeable bollocks. Woy has already shown us how stubborn he can be in these situations too and he's definitely not the sort to start 'learning' as you put it. He's old school. We can give him credit though, I guess, as he indeed changed our entire tactical approach during his time here (which IMO has been massively helped along by the technical abilities of the new generation England player - ie. he had no choice but to change what we were doing) He also knew how to get the best out of Rooney. Our stature? Our stature is we are an average nogger nation. At best a quarter final team. 66 90 and 96 are exceptions that prove the rule and in some ways they prove our mediocrity.
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 11, 2015 11:37:05 GMT
Perhaps. If that is the case, a decent man manager would have given him the (predictably) comfortable home game to get any first night nerves out of the way before exposing him to the tougher challenge - which, as has been said, is as likely to come from the playing conditions as the opposition. Absurd not to play him in both games this international break. I disagree. And I suspect your opinion wouldn't be anywhere near as strong if Butland wasn't a Stoke player. Your suspicions are wrong - my opinion is not based on the team he plays for. Just good (and frankly rather obvious) man management - pure and simple. Goalkeeper is a unique position in football. A position where convidence is vital. Giving Butland a home start debut against a team where he'll have pretty much nothing to do except get acclimatised and build confidence seems such a no brainer I'm amazed there's any debate about doing it. If you've still any doubt - cast your mind back to Scott Carson's soul destroying full debut.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 11, 2015 12:04:02 GMT
Sorry mate but it's results that matter to me and all you can do is keep winning. I'm not really trying to bang his drum as being an amazing manager but he's done alright this campaign and bought a lot of young players into the side. Obviously it could be a different scenario come the tournament and he could totally screw up, then again being a fairly clever bloke he might actually have learned a thing or two and put them right when it matters. We'll see. Just don't think he deserves all the grief but I'm not really a football thinker. I just see results, winning ones and think what more can he do. Which is why he should have been sacked after the World Cup. I really can't abide the bloke and in my lifetime that I can remember properly (Graham Taylor misses this accolade by a year or two) he's been the worst England manager for me in that time. In what way is he worse than McClaren? Or Keegan for that matter?
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Post by werrington on Oct 11, 2015 12:07:56 GMT
I really have absolutely no idea what some Stoke fans want where England are concerned
Don't pick Stoke players they go mental.....pick Stoke players and they still see a negative
And all from people who constantly tell us they actually don't give a fuck about England !!!!
I'm confused
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 11, 2015 12:09:30 GMT
Which is why he should have been sacked after the World Cup. I really can't abide the bloke and in my lifetime that I can remember properly (Graham Taylor misses this accolade by a year or two) he's been the worst England manager for me in that time. In what way is he worse than McClaren? Or Keegan for that matter? It gets hysterical sometimes. Roy does about par with the resources at his disposal.
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Post by flinteastwood on Oct 11, 2015 12:30:51 GMT
nice one Jack, lets hope he plays well and puts more pressure on Hart. how long ago is it since a stoke player played competitively for England?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 11, 2015 12:39:46 GMT
Butland in goal is a start. Now we just need Shawcross at centre-half (And Captain) Johnson at right back & Crouch upfront!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 12:42:03 GMT
Which is why he should have been sacked after the World Cup. I really can't abide the bloke and in my lifetime that I can remember properly (Graham Taylor misses this accolade by a year or two) he's been the worst England manager for me in that time. In what way is he worse than McClaren? Or Keegan for that matter? I forgot about McLaren! He should have been sacked after the Euros though, the World Cup proved that.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 12:42:43 GMT
In what way is he worse than McClaren? Or Keegan for that matter? It gets hysterical sometimes. Roy does about par with the resources at his disposal. Finishing behind Costa Rica isn't par.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 11, 2015 12:44:57 GMT
In what way is he worse than McClaren? Or Keegan for that matter? I forgot about McLaren! He should have been sacked after the Euros though, the World Cup proved that. Hodgson did ok in the Euros I thought. He should've gone after the World Cup yeah.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 12:47:27 GMT
I forgot about McLaren! He should have been sacked after the Euros though, the World Cup proved that. Hodgson did ok in the Euros I thought. He should've gone after the World Cup yeah. I don't think he did. We played for a draw vs Italy and I just don't see how anyone with half a brain would do that. Play to win, it was a knockout game and we're shite at penalties and he played for them.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 11, 2015 12:51:44 GMT
It gets hysterical sometimes. Roy does about par with the resources at his disposal. Finishing behind Costa Rica isn't par. Not necessarily. In 2010 when we made a meal getting out of a straightforward group alarm bells should have sounded. When we got a fiddly group in 2014 it was always going be hard. When solid underrated sides with a cohesive gameplan like Costa Rica are there it made it a tough ask. I really didn't expect lose both the first two games but that's football it happens. The rest of the world wasn't shocked by our early departure. Imagine how Italy must feel. A nation with proper stature and twice on a row they haven't got out of the group.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2015 12:53:29 GMT
Finishing behind Costa Rica isn't par. Not necessarily. In 2010 when we made a meal getting out of a straightforward group alarm bells should have sounded. When we got a fiddly group in 2014 it was always going be hard. When solid underrated sides with a cohesive gameplan like Costa Rica are there it made it a tough ask. I really didn't expect lose both the first two games but that's football it happens. The rest of the world wasn't shocked by our early departure. Imagine how Italy must feel. A nation with proper stature and twice on a row they haven't got out of the group. I wasn't either but finishing behind Costa Rica will never be acceptable. I'd say we've got a better team on paper than Italy.....we just don't have the brains to beat them.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 11, 2015 12:55:01 GMT
Hodgson did ok in the Euros I thought. He should've gone after the World Cup yeah. I don't think he did. We played for a draw vs Italy and I just don't see how anyone with half a brain would do that. Play to win, it was a knockout game and we're shite at penalties and he played for them. We didn't play for a draw. We just couldn't get the ball for long enough to launch an attack. Going out to a team of their stature is certainly no disgrace. But few could argue that for 120 minutes we were outclassed by a much better team. Had we prevailed in the penalty shootout we’d have seen, to quote Bill Shankly, “A travesty of justice”.
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