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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:30:59 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 14:30:59 GMT
Players should be rewarded with call-ups to the England team if they're playing well over a period of time (Like Vardy has been doing) And players at the big clubs should get dropped if they're not doing so well. It might even help with promising young English players wanting to stay & play for 'lesser' clubs rather than sitting on a bench at a big club if they know it gives them more chance of a call-up. Spot on. If form players can't break through then we'll be stuck with the same old flops.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:32:14 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 14:32:14 GMT
Didn't Vardy score in the league recently? When was the last time Rooney troubled a PL defence? Apologies, didn't realise when you were talking about recent form you only meant in the Premier League and bit actually all competitive games. If Bardsley scored a hat trick against Luton it wouldn't make him the best right back we've got. Club Brugge who are chasing a two goal deficit isn't a good benchmark.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:32:37 GMT
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Post by foster on Sept 6, 2015 14:32:37 GMT
Who cares. He's overrated and not a legend in any way, shape or form.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:33:44 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 14:33:44 GMT
Players should be rewarded with call-ups to the England team if they're playing well over a period of time (Like Vardy has been doing) And players at the big clubs should get dropped if they're not doing so well. It might even help with promising young English players wanting to stay & play for 'lesser' clubs rather than sitting on a bench at a big club if they know it gives them more chance of a call-up. Spot on. If form players can't break through then we'll be stuck with the same old flops. You're calling England's joint top goalscorer a flop.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:37:04 GMT
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 6, 2015 14:37:04 GMT
Apologies, didn't realise when you were talking about recent form you only meant in the Premier League and bit actually all competitive games. If Bardsley scored a hat trick against Luton it wouldn't make him the best right back we've got. Club Brugge who are chasing a two goal deficit isn't a good benchmark. But Bardsley didn't score a hat trick did he. Whereas Rooney did. Further information for your perusal - Jermaine Defoe has got 2 goals so far this season in the premier league, none of these were penalties. Callum Wilson has 4 (1 pen).
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:37:50 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 14:37:50 GMT
Spot on. If form players can't break through then we'll be stuck with the same old flops. You're calling England's joint top goalscorer a flop. Shall we bring back Charlton and Owen as well then? Players can go off the boil over time with age...
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:39:13 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 14:39:13 GMT
If Bardsley scored a hat trick against Luton it wouldn't make him the best right back we've got. Club Brugge who are chasing a two goal deficit isn't a good benchmark. But Bardsley didn't score a hat trick did he. Whereas Rooney did. Further information for your perusal - Jermaine Defoe has got 2 goals so far this season in the premier league, none of these were penalties. Callum Wilson has 4 (1 pen). Defoe is past it and if Wilson has a good season (12+ goals) then he should be able to break into the squad if members above him aren't performing
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:42:15 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 14:42:15 GMT
You're calling England's joint top goalscorer a flop. Shall we bring back Charlton and Owen as well then? Players can go off the boil over time with age... Yeah 11 in 18 at an international level is going off the boil. Spare us all and give up this bollocks!
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:46:47 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 14:46:47 GMT
Shall we bring back Charlton and Owen as well then? Players can go off the boil over time with age... Yeah 11 in 18 at an international level is going off the boil. Spare us all and give up this bollocks! At least 3 of those were pens and he's played San Marino and Slovenia twice
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:48:13 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 14:48:13 GMT
Yeah 11 in 18 at an international level is going off the boil. Spare us all and give up this bollocks! At least 3 of those were pens and he's played San Marino and Slovenia twice One of those teams Vardy looked fucking awful against.....
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:49:36 GMT
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 6, 2015 14:49:36 GMT
But Bardsley didn't score a hat trick did he. Whereas Rooney did. Further information for your perusal - Jermaine Defoe has got 2 goals so far this season in the premier league, none of these were penalties. Callum Wilson has 4 (1 pen). Defoe is past it and if Wilson has a good season (12+ goals) then he should be able to break into the squad if members above him aren't performing On current form Defoe should be in the squad by his goals scored surely? That's all that matters isn't it? Rooney always seems to get a lot of stick no matter what he does or how he plays. The bloke has just equalled the nations goal scoring record, why not just give him some credit for it?
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:51:19 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 14:51:19 GMT
At least 3 of those were pens and he's played San Marino and Slovenia twice One of those teams Vardy looked fucking awful against..... why keep bringing up Vardy? This is a Rooney being poor debate. There are other options beside JV
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:52:58 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 14:52:58 GMT
Defoe is past it and if Wilson has a good season (12+ goals) then he should be able to break into the squad if members above him aren't performing On current form Defoe should be in the squad by his goals scored surely? That's all that matters isn't it? Rooney always seems to get a lot of stick no matter what he does or how he plays. The bloke has just equalled the nations goal scoring record, why not just give him some credit for it? I know you're being sarcastic but no, Defoe is long gone. Do you not think that form should come into team selection?
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 14:54:53 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 14:54:53 GMT
One of those teams Vardy looked fucking awful against..... why keep bringing up Vardy? This is a Rooney being poor debate. There are other options beside JV Because you're advocating him over England joint all time top goalscorer. It's absolutely laughable.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:00:24 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Sept 6, 2015 15:00:24 GMT
Again, which nations did he score them against and how many were penalties? Stats only give you half the picture. When did you last physically see him dominate a game at international level? genuine question.... are you aware of the fact that charlton scored against the likes of luxembourg,the usa and ecuador??? 50% of hos goals were against the home nations? Let's not pretend his goals were against footballing superpowers because,quite simply they weren't! Less than 30% of his goals were in competitive games (whereas nearly 70% of rooney's were). Why the need for so many to get so defensive and compare the 2 goalscoring records? No-one has said rooney is as good as charlton and it would seem that no-one on here who's been comparing the 2 simply to slag rooney off either know or care about the facts pointed out above. By the way, only 5 of rooney's goals were penalties (including last night's). P.S. how you can honestly expect anyone to take you seriously when you're saying vardy is a genuine alternative option to rooney god only knows! to be fair as hosts then defending champions England went 8 years with out World Cup qualifiers. There were less competitive games in those days mick The home nations were competitive in spirit too.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:02:31 GMT
Post by Trouserdog on Sept 6, 2015 15:02:31 GMT
Great article by Barney Ronay on Rooney and the lack of respect for what he's achieved... www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/sep/04/wayne-rooney-england-cheer-bobby-charltonI think some people feel let down by Rooney in some strange way because they may have bought into the hype that surrounded him when he was younger. He was hailed as potentially the best English player ever, as he would be during a time when hyperbole is de rigueur in the national sports press and the hunger for international success has long since been at desperation level. The fact he hasn't reached that level- he's been 'merely' a very good international player- seems to upset them and they just can't let it go. Arguing about who scored against who in an attempt to prove something really is playground stuff. As for advocating Vardy's inclusion over Rooney. Well, it doesn't matter how many stats you present on that because to anyone with a memory longer than about a week, it's going to sound mental. Rooney's recent form hasn't been good, but surely we need more than 2 bad performances from a record goalscorer before deciding to bin him in favour of a bloke who's best asset seems to be the ability to run around a lot? Eventually we'll reach the point when Rooney's legs really have gone and other players are a better option than him. I don't think we're there yet though. One month's worth of patchy form is nowhere near enough evidence to drop someone who, on all available past form, is a better player than every alternative you can name.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:02:54 GMT
Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 6, 2015 15:02:54 GMT
Because you're advocating him over England joint all time top goalscorer. It's absolutely laughable. I don't really want to get involved in the whole 'Rooney/Vardy' thing, so I'll only nip in & straight back out... But Rooney is going to be our all time top goalscorer untill the day he retires, does that mean he's got to be in every England squad untill that time arrives? Or, does there become a point where his club form isn't going so well & other players at other clubs are doing alright & they should get the nod over him?
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:04:54 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 15:04:54 GMT
Because you're advocating him over England joint all time top goalscorer. It's absolutely laughable. I don't really want to get involved in the whole 'Rooney/Vardy' thing, so I'll only nip in & straight back out... But Rooney is going to be our all time top goalscorer untill the day he retires, does that mean he's got to be in every England squad untill that time arrives? Or, does there become a point where his club form isn't going so well & other players at other clubs are doing alright & they should get the nod over him? No but at the moment he's scored 11 in 18 internationals (his recent form) and is still probably England's best player. And he's just scored a hat-trick in the Champions League. Of course his place will come under threat. But not at the moment and not by Jamie Vardy. So yes it's laughable.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:05:58 GMT
Post by Trouserdog on Sept 6, 2015 15:05:58 GMT
Because you're advocating him over England joint all time top goalscorer. It's absolutely laughable. I don't really want to get involved in the whole 'Rooney/Vardy' thing, so I'll only nip in & straight back out... But Rooney is going to be our all time top goalscorer untill the day he retires, does that mean he's got to be in every England squad untill that time arrives? Or, does there become a point where his club form isn't going so well & other players at other clubs are doing alright & they should get the nod over him? The day comes when there's a better alternative out there. Once you go through that list though, it's obvious why Rooney's still currently the best option.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:15:30 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 15:15:30 GMT
I don't really want to get involved in the whole 'Rooney/Vardy' thing, so I'll only nip in & straight back out... But Rooney is going to be our all time top goalscorer untill the day he retires, does that mean he's got to be in every England squad untill that time arrives? Or, does there become a point where his club form isn't going so well & other players at other clubs are doing alright & they should get the nod over him? No but at the moment he's scored 11 in 18 internationals (his recent form) and is still probably England's best player. And he's just scored a hat-trick in the Champions League. Of course his place will come under threat. But not at the moment and not by Jamie Vardy. So yes it's laughable. Please stop being so pig ignorant and blinded and look at the nations we've played whilst he's been scoring 1.1 in 2:. Costa Rica Honduras San Marino Norway Estonia Moldova Montenegro Peru Lithuania Slovenia.... And then add in that a percentage were penalties. He scored 12 goals in the prem last season. His form is rightfully being called into question.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:17:36 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 15:17:36 GMT
I don't really want to get involved in the whole 'Rooney/Vardy' thing, so I'll only nip in & straight back out... But Rooney is going to be our all time top goalscorer untill the day he retires, does that mean he's got to be in every England squad untill that time arrives? Or, does there become a point where his club form isn't going so well & other players at other clubs are doing alright & they should get the nod over him? The day comes when there's a better alternative out there. Once you go through that list though, it's obvious why Rooney's still currently the best option. If Rooney is still the best option on current form next summer then we'd better hope those bloody migrants clear the euro tunnel for our early return.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:21:11 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 15:21:11 GMT
No but at the moment he's scored 11 in 18 internationals (his recent form) and is still probably England's best player. And he's just scored a hat-trick in the Champions League. Of course his place will come under threat. But not at the moment and not by Jamie Vardy. So yes it's laughable. Please stop being so pig ignorant and blinded and look at the nations we've played whilst he's been scoring 1.1 in 2:. Costa Rica Honduras San Marino Norway Estonia Moldova Montenegro Peru Lithuania Slovenia.... And then add in that a percentage were penalties. He scored 12 goals in the prem last season. His form is rightfully being called into question. There's only one person being pig ignorant and blind here.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:22:09 GMT
Post by Trouserdog on Sept 6, 2015 15:22:09 GMT
The day comes when there's a better alternative out there. Once you go through that list though, it's obvious why Rooney's still currently the best option. If Rooney is still the best option on current form next summer then we'd better hope those bloody migrants clear the euro tunnel for our early return. You've just called someone else pig ignorant and then come out with that?! I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks we're going to win Euro 2016, and that's not going to change whether we've got Wayne Rooney, Jamie Vardy or Donald Duck up front.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:26:46 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 15:26:46 GMT
If Rooney is still the best option on current form next summer then we'd better hope those bloody migrants clear the euro tunnel for our early return. You've just called someone else pig ignorant and then come out with that?! I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks we're going to win Euro 2016, and that's not going to change whether we've got Wayne Rooney, Jamie Vardy or Donald Duck up front. No but we should aspire to reach the quarter finals and that's something we won't do with a forward struggling for form.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 15:27:26 GMT
One of those teams Vardy looked fucking awful against..... why keep bringing up Vardy? This is a Rooney being poor debate. There are other options beside JV because you're the 1 saying vardy is a better alternative at the moment whilst using logic that's all over the place; First of all you say it' purely because of his form yet when it's pointed out that defoe's form is better suddenly the "form" argument goes out of the window because of age? Then you mentioned the poor quality of the sides who rooney has scored against recently and (as bayern has pointed out) you neglect the fact that vardy (who apparently is a better option) DIDN'T manage to score against 1 of those poor sides and looked woeful whilst he was it! Where are the goalposts moving to next exactly?
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:33:42 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 15:33:42 GMT
why keep bringing up Vardy? This is a Rooney being poor debate. There are other options beside JV because you're the 1 saying vardy is a better alternative at the moment whilst using logic that's all over the place; First of all you say it' purely because of his form yet when it's pointed out that defoe's form is better suddenly the "form" argument goes out of the window because of age? Then you mentioned the poor quality of the sides who rooney has scored against recently and (as bayern has pointed out) you neglect the fact that vardy (who apparently is a better option) DIDN'T manage to score against 1 of those poor sides and looked woeful whilst he was it! Where are the goalposts moving to next exactly? So form DOES NOT COUNT in the slightest? If Vardy scores 20 and Rooney 5 Rooney still starts? Suggesting that because Defoe has scored two goals this season against Leicester and Swansea and using just a four game spell as a measure of form is retarded. Vardy has been on fire at club level since March. Again, Vardy one game and he didn't even get the pleasure of leading the line. Rooney led the line and he isn't doing anywhere near enough to warrant his place. I am not saying Jamie fucking Vardy is our saviour, I'm saying Rooney is playing about as well as Ivanovic at present and the England squad should be an open shop to any English player who proves he can do a good job in the top flight. Sturridge Kane Rooney Welbeck and Austin are better than Vardy but Vardy is the one who is making a difference for his club at the highest level. Just as Shawcross should of been ahead of certain under performibg CBs when he was fit and firing on all cylinders.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 15:39:24 GMT
To be honest i really don't get what the debate actually is...
Has Rooney become joint top scorer? Yes Has he scored against some poor sides? Yes Is it his fault who he comes up against? No Is Charlton joint top scorer? Yes Has he scored against some poor sides? Yes Was it his fault who he came up against? No Has anyone,anywhere on this board or in the media even suggested that Rooney equalling the record either takes anything away from Charlton or makes Rooney as good a player? No!
What is people's problem with an englishman scoring 49 goals exactly? Really can't see why anyone would have a problem with it unless it's because ofnthis pathetic British culture of berating and belittling those that do well.it used to be something that was exclusive to the "build them up then knock them" tabloid media twats but now seems to have filtrated into society in general....slag rooney off for not scoring but then when he does "oh it doesn't count so i'll find other reasons to slag him off instead".
Childish,pathetic and am embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves "england suppirters".
This board is seriously going to the dogs because of exactly this kind of "find a whipping boy and stick to it" pathetic attitude that even extends to half of our own team on here nowadays.
Disgusting really
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:43:44 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 15:43:44 GMT
To be honest i really don't get what the debate actually is... Has Rooney become joint top scorer? Yes Has he scored against some poor sides? Yes Is it his fault who he comes up against? No Is Charlton joint top scorer? Yes Has he scored against some poor sides? Yes Was it his fault who he came up against? No Has anyone,anywhere on this board or in the media even suggested that Rooney equalling the record either takes anything away from Charlton or makes Rooney as good a player? No! What is people's problem with an englishman scoring 49 goals exactly? Really can't see why anyone would have a problem with it unless it's because ofnthis pathetic British culture of berating and belittling those that do well.it used to be something that was exclusive to the "build them up then knock them" tabloid media twats but now seems to have filtrated into society in general....slag rooney off for not scoring but then when he does "oh it doesn't count so i'll find other reasons to slag him off instead". Childish,pathetic and am embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves "england suppirters". This board is seriously going to the dogs because of exactly this kind of "find a whipping boy and stick to it" pathetic attitude that even extends to half of our own team on here nowadays. Disgusting really Again I've not compared him with any player of time gone by. I'm merely stating that the England set up should be open to players on form, and in mine and others opinions Rooney is not on top form and shouldn't be an automatic pick. He'll break the all time record and will go down in history, that's a fact. What's up for debate is his current level of effectiveness for club and country.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 6, 2015 15:44:00 GMT
Vardy had his chance last night against San Marino and quite frankly looked out of his depth. Poor runs, poor decisions, poor technique. Walcott comes on and scores two in 5 minutes. Kane comes on, scores a goal.
Vardy or Rooney???? Form or not, it isn't a question worth asking.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 15:45:48 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 15:45:48 GMT
Vardy had his chance last night against San Marino and quite frankly looked out of his depth. Poor runs, poor decisions, poor technique. Walcott comes on and scores two in 5 minutes. Kane comes on, scores a goal. Vardy or Rooney???? Form or not, it isn't a question worth asking. I'm not mentioning the V word again because people are taking the argument out of context. The question is should Rooney be an automatic starter regardless of form and for me it's a no.
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