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Post by st3mark on Sept 6, 2015 9:56:34 GMT
Lineker 10 World Cup goals.
Rooney 1 World Cup goal.
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Post by st3mark on Sept 6, 2015 9:58:59 GMT
Shearer 7 euro goals over 2 tournaments
Rooney 5 over 2 tournaments.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 10:03:08 GMT
Post by vahl on Sept 6, 2015 10:03:08 GMT
-Rooney would not cope with the 'hard footballs' of the past compared to Bobby -Rooney would not cope with the 'hard tackles' of the past compared to Bobby -Rooney would not cope with the harsh football pitches of the past compared to Bobby
Just some of the shite I have read (not necessarily on this board)
We're talking about a lad that grew up on benefits around the streets of Croxteth. He is as 'life hardened' as they come in that respect, never shy of a tackle and will belt any football you throw at him anywhere you ask.
The man is a living England legend and should have massive respect given to him for his achievements IMO.
I'm positive he will go on and be a successful manager in the game as well.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 10:03:54 GMT
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Post by burberrybassist on Sept 6, 2015 10:03:54 GMT
We should know after watching the likes of Luton in the League Cup that just because you're playing "lesser" teams doesn't mean you're guaranteed to score.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 10:36:38 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 10:36:38 GMT
We should know after watching the likes of Luton in the League Cup that just because you're playing "lesser" teams doesn't mean you're guaranteed to score. Luton would batter some international sides (San Marino) and if you are going to play the teams in our group every 2-4 years in qualifying tournaments then as the main striker you will score a hatful. Rooney's goals to game ratio given his role and given the opposition he's played against is poor.
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Post by redstriper on Sept 6, 2015 10:59:56 GMT
Comparing him to Charlton is inevitable but pointless. The fact is he's worn the England shirt with pride, led the attack to the best of his ability, and scored 50 odd goals in ten years.
He deserves more credit than he's getting.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 11:02:12 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 11:02:12 GMT
He does but the fact he isn't getting it shows how far the England national football has fallen in the eyes of the public. They might as well be shit on the bottom of our collective shoes.
They've got a whole lot to do to get that love from 1996 back.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Sept 6, 2015 11:14:25 GMT
I reckon we won't see another player like him for some time, let's remember he's also close to breaking the record at United, he's not even 30 yet.
He may not be world class, but he's a bloody good player who's given his all everytime he's played. He deserves some respect.
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Post by Trouserdog on Sept 6, 2015 11:49:47 GMT
I think, for a time, he was world class.
Unfortunately, like a few other England strikers before him, he peaked very early on in his career and has been, if not exactly a spent force, then a much inferior version of the dynamic presence he was in his late-teens and early-twenties. The 2004-06 version of Rooney would be remembered as one of the greats if his career had ended at that point or if he'd carried that form on for a bit longer. As it is though he's performed at a level or two below that for a good few years, and that's what people will remember.
At present though he's still our best striker and should be the first name on the team sheet in France.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 11:51:39 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 11:51:39 GMT
I think, for a time, he was world class. Unfortunately, like a few other England strikers before him, he peaked very early on in his career and has been, if not exactly a spent force, then a much inferior version of the dynamic presence he was in his late-teens and early-twenties. The 2004-06 version of Rooney would be remembered as one of the greats if his career had ended at that point or if he'd carried that form on for a bit longer. As it is though he's performed at a level or two below that for a good few years, and that's what people will remember. At present though he's still our best striker and should be the first name on the team sheet in France. So he'd be the first name on the team sheet if he keeps playing like he is for his club at present? Football fans have this irritating obsession with big names and reputations. For example people on here were wanking themselves silly when we got Owen and Gudjonsson but it was obvious they were washed up old pros who would never fit in with TPs style. Flip the coin and Walters never has and never will be a big name so he'll get stuck for being a reliable player who does his job and rarely lets anyone down. Rooney isn't performing up front and he hasn't performed for England at any major tournament. Rather than start him up front id be looking to select the top English goalscorer, whether that be Rooney, Vardy or anyone else who does the business.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 11:54:08 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 11:54:08 GMT
I think, for a time, he was world class. Unfortunately, like a few other England strikers before him, he peaked very early on in his career and has been, if not exactly a spent force, then a much inferior version of the dynamic presence he was in his late-teens and early-twenties. The 2004-06 version of Rooney would be remembered as one of the greats if his career had ended at that point or if he'd carried that form on for a bit longer. As it is though he's performed at a level or two below that for a good few years, and that's what people will remember. At present though he's still our best striker and should be the first name on the team sheet in France. So he'd be the first name on the team sheet if he keeps playing like he is for his club at present? Yes. Did you see Jamie Vardy yesterday! He's awful!
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 11:56:35 GMT
Post by Trouserdog on Sept 6, 2015 11:56:35 GMT
I think, for a time, he was world class. Unfortunately, like a few other England strikers before him, he peaked very early on in his career and has been, if not exactly a spent force, then a much inferior version of the dynamic presence he was in his late-teens and early-twenties. The 2004-06 version of Rooney would be remembered as one of the greats if his career had ended at that point or if he'd carried that form on for a bit longer. As it is though he's performed at a level or two below that for a good few years, and that's what people will remember. At present though he's still our best striker and should be the first name on the team sheet in France. So he'd be the first name on the team sheet if he keeps playing like he is for his club at present? What, like scoring 3 in the Champions League a week or two ago? If he has an absolute pig of a season then sure, his place will be up for grabs, but who are we going to play instead of him, Jamie Vardy? I'd be tempted to switch between the 4-3-3 that Hodgson is using at present (in which he doesn't look as effective) with a 4-2-3-1 and have him in the No.10 role behind Kane. He looks more effective a bit deeper these days.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 11:57:15 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 11:57:15 GMT
So he'd be the first name on the team sheet if he keeps playing like he is for his club at present? Yes. Did you see Jamie Vardy yesterday! He's awful! And Rooney was fantastic. I've modified my reply to Trousers and yes Vardy is on form and Rooney isn't so Vardy gets the nod.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 11:59:07 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 11:59:07 GMT
Yes. Did you see Jamie Vardy yesterday! He's awful! And Rooney was fantastic. I've modified my reply to Trousers and yes Vardy is on form and Rooney isn't so Vardy gets the nod. Yeah but that's a mental way of doing it.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 11:59:42 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 11:59:42 GMT
So he'd be the first name on the team sheet if he keeps playing like he is for his club at present? What, like scoring 3 in the Champions League a week or two ago? If he has an absolute pig of a season then sure, his place will be up for grabs, but who are we going to play instead of him, Jamie Vardy? I'd be tempted to switch between the 4-3-3 that Hodgson is using at present (in which he doesn't look as effective) with a 4-2-3-1 and have him in the No.10 role behind Kane. He looks more effective a bit deeper these days. Let's not pretend that CL qualifying is a good benchmark, especially when Club Brugge had to go for the jugular. Rooney has been two steps off the pace at least in the league.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:02:26 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 12:02:26 GMT
And Rooney was fantastic. I've modified my reply to Trousers and yes Vardy is on form and Rooney isn't so Vardy gets the nod. Yeah but that's a mental way of doing it. Why is it mental to suggest that in form confident players could do a better job than a player who is there on reputation not merit? You don't like Vardy as an example because he plays for Leicester. I'm sure Leicester fans wouldn't be picking a fully fit Shawcross in a hurry because he's not a big name.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:04:05 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 12:04:05 GMT
Was it mental that unknown Harry Kane who had had bang average loan spells displaced Adebayor at Spurs?
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:04:09 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 12:04:09 GMT
Yeah but that's a mental way of doing it. Why is it mental to suggest that in form confident players could do a better job than a player who is there on reputation not merit? You don't like Vardy as an example because he plays for Leicester. I'm sure Leicester fans wouldn't be picking a fully fit Shawcross in a hurry because he's not a big name. Because Wayne Rooney will always be the better option when it involved Jamie Vardy. I couldn't give a shit who plays for, I don't think he's a very good player and should be nowhere near the England set up. I think Charlie Austin should, he plays in the league below for a team worse than Leicester.....
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:07:17 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 12:07:17 GMT
Why is it mental to suggest that in form confident players could do a better job than a player who is there on reputation not merit? You don't like Vardy as an example because he plays for Leicester. I'm sure Leicester fans wouldn't be picking a fully fit Shawcross in a hurry because he's not a big name. Because Wayne Rooney will always be the better option when it involved Jamie Vardy. I couldn't give a shit who plays for, I don't think he's a very good player and should be nowhere near the England set up. I think Charlie Austin should, he plays in the league below for a team worse than Leicester..... I also think Austin should and this is a mental opinion but I'd have him over Vardy and Rooney. If Vardy scores 20 at Leicester and Rooney scores 12 as the main man for Man Utd then it's utterly retarded to pick Rooney over the form guy who's earned this chance.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:11:01 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 12:11:01 GMT
Because Wayne Rooney will always be the better option when it involved Jamie Vardy. I couldn't give a shit who plays for, I don't think he's a very good player and should be nowhere near the England set up. I think Charlie Austin should, he plays in the league below for a team worse than Leicester..... I also think Austin should and this is a mental opinion but I'd have him over Vardy and Rooney. If Vardy scores 20 at Leicester and Rooney scores 12 as the main man for Man Utd then it's utterly retarded to pick Rooney over the form guy who's earned this chance. No it wouldn't. Even at clubs when picking the side form isn't the main criteria. You pick them on their talent first and foremost. What's that old adage....form is temporary, class is permanent. And that's what people use on the whole to select sides.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:19:47 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 12:19:47 GMT
I also think Austin should and this is a mental opinion but I'd have him over Vardy and Rooney. If Vardy scores 20 at Leicester and Rooney scores 12 as the main man for Man Utd then it's utterly retarded to pick Rooney over the form guy who's earned this chance. No it wouldn't. Even at clubs when picking the side form isn't the main criteria. You pick them on their talent first and foremost. What's that old adage....form is temporary, class is permanent. And that's what people use on the whole to select sides. You mean players like Woodgate, Owen, Palacios, Tuncay. Should they have been picked on talent over form? Didn't you spend last year questioning the merits of a certain Bojan? He certainly had plenty of pedigree... If a player is blatantly class like Shawcross, Diouf or Bojan then of course they won't be dropped on a couple of poor performances, when these poor performances spiral over the course of ten to twelve games then you give them a rest and turn to your squad options. Rooney's last dominant performance for England was...? I'm a strong believer that at club and country level the form players play if they're delivering. Vardy is delivering at a poor Leicester side and Rooney isn't performing in a star studded Utd side
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:19:31 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Sept 6, 2015 12:19:31 GMT
Stats don't lie, fair play to the lad it's a good achievement. True but it also depends on which stats you think are important. Rooney's achievement is as much about longevity and commitment as it it skill, which he must have to stay at the top of the game for so many internationals and keep scoring. So his achievement, which is better than good it is outstanding, and is based on stamina and endurance at which he is proving to be the greatest ever. But IMO another possibly more important achievement is who is the greatest goal scorer in terms of strike rate over a long period not just a few matches. In this respect Jimmy Greaves is head and shoulders above anyone else. He scored his goals at a much faster rate over fewer years. Ramsay dropped him from the 66 WC team, having struck a winning formula and didn't pick him when he was building the younger 1970 WC squad, so he stopped playing for England at a relatively young age, 27. Greaves didn't take penalties, scored more hat tricks than anyone, was top scorer in the old 1st Division year after year, more than anyone. He was IMO our greatest ever goal scorer. Take a look at these stats.for Jimmy Greaves, they are amazing: www.englandfootballonline.com/teamgoals/Goals_10-49.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_first_tier_top_scorers
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:20:28 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Sept 6, 2015 12:20:28 GMT
If I were Rooney I probably wouldn't want to break the record v san Marino. You'd want a career defining moment to come against a more reputable opponent than them surely? Yeah switzerland
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Post by salopstick on Sept 6, 2015 12:23:34 GMT
Rooney is very lucky to play when marketing, your club and other factors determine whether you play for England.
Countless times his form demanded he be dropped but he never has been. It's a great achievement but it has been pretty much handed to him.
Crouch's performances and record for England should have meant more caps and goals
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:23:57 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 12:23:57 GMT
No it wouldn't. Even at clubs when picking the side form isn't the main criteria. You pick them on their talent first and foremost. What's that old adage....form is temporary, class is permanent. And that's what people use on the whole to select sides. You mean players like Woodgate, Owen, Palacios, Tuncay. Should they have been picked on talent over form? Didn't you spend last year questioning the merits of a certain Bojan? He certainly had plenty of pedigree... If a player is blatantly class like Shawcross, Diouf or Bojan then of course they won't be dropped on a couple of poor performances, when these poor performances spiral over the course of ten to twelve games then you give them a rest and turn to your squad options. Rooney's last dominant performance for England was...? I'm a strong believer that at club and country level the form players play if they're delivering. Vardy is delivering at a poor Leicester side and Rooney isn't performing in a star studded Utd side That's being way too simplistic, they were all barring Tuncay who should have been playing way past their best. Rooney isn't as good as he was but he still a class above Jamie Vardy? Yes, a few classes actually. If Kane displaces him then he can have no qualms about that. You mean the Wayne Rooney who's scored 11 goals in his last 18 internationals? Come off it!
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:25:06 GMT
Post by bertiestan on Sept 6, 2015 12:25:06 GMT
If Jamie vardy is the answer it just shows how far behind we are
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:29:44 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 12:29:44 GMT
You mean players like Woodgate, Owen, Palacios, Tuncay. Should they have been picked on talent over form? Didn't you spend last year questioning the merits of a certain Bojan? He certainly had plenty of pedigree... If a player is blatantly class like Shawcross, Diouf or Bojan then of course they won't be dropped on a couple of poor performances, when these poor performances spiral over the course of ten to twelve games then you give them a rest and turn to your squad options. Rooney's last dominant performance for England was...? I'm a strong believer that at club and country level the form players play if they're delivering. Vardy is delivering at a poor Leicester side and Rooney isn't performing in a star studded Utd side That's being way too simplistic, they were all barring Tuncay who should have been playing way past their best. Rooney isn't as good as he was but he still a class above Jamie Vardy? Yes, a few classes actually. If Kane displaces him then he can have no qualms about that. You mean the Wayne Rooney who's scored 11 goals in his last 18 internationals? Come off it! And Rooney isn't past his best? Some players (George Best) peak early. Played predominantly in midfield last year and has been woeful up front so far this season... Why is he still our main frontman? I can't find stats to prove your last statement, and I can't see the teams he's played against or the penalties he's scored to make up the numbers. I'm going off what I've seen and he's not looked dominant against the poorest of international sides.
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:34:16 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 12:34:16 GMT
That's being way too simplistic, they were all barring Tuncay who should have been playing way past their best. Rooney isn't as good as he was but he still a class above Jamie Vardy? Yes, a few classes actually. If Kane displaces him then he can have no qualms about that. You mean the Wayne Rooney who's scored 11 goals in his last 18 internationals? Come off it! And Rooney isn't past his best? Some players (George Best) peak early. Played predominantly in midfield last year and has been woeful up front so far this season... Why is he still our main frontman? I can't find stats to prove your last statement, and I can't see the teams he's played against or the penalties he's scored to make up the numbers. I'm going off what I've seen and he's not looked dominant against the poorest of international sides. He isn't as good as he was like I said but is he still England's best striker....yes. Because he's got 11 in 18 internationals? There you go. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Rooney17 in 28 if you want to go back to 2013. The useless twat!
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:36:59 GMT
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Post by upthefud on Sept 6, 2015 12:36:59 GMT
And Rooney isn't past his best? Some players (George Best) peak early. Played predominantly in midfield last year and has been woeful up front so far this season... Why is he still our main frontman? I can't find stats to prove your last statement, and I can't see the teams he's played against or the penalties he's scored to make up the numbers. I'm going off what I've seen and he's not looked dominant against the poorest of international sides. He isn't as good as he was like I said but is he still England's best striker....yes. Because he's got 11 in 18 internationals? There you go. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Rooney17 in 28 if you want to go back to 2013. The useless twat! Again, which nations did he score them against and how many were penalties? Stats only give you half the picture. When did you last physically see him dominate a game at international level?
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Rooney
Sept 6, 2015 12:39:10 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 6, 2015 12:39:10 GMT
He isn't as good as he was like I said but is he still England's best striker....yes. Because he's got 11 in 18 internationals? There you go. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Rooney17 in 28 if you want to go back to 2013. The useless twat! Again, which nations did he score them against and how many were penalties? Stats only give you half the picture. When did you last physically see him dominate a game at international level? What does it matter? And I agree they do but when they marry up with him being the joint greatest England goalscorer of all time and him still being a very good player then it should be a compelling argument. Especially when you're advocating Jamie Vardy!
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