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Post by mrpickles on Mar 6, 2015 18:40:41 GMT
I like Diouf I was just reiterating Rob's point really. Too often on here, people get accused of not supporting the team when giving an opinion on a player's performance. It shouldn't be like that. I've disagreed with plenty of folk on here, but never doubted that they want the player to succeed. He didn't just give an opinion though, he said he was close to writing him off. You only write someone off if they have nothing to bring to the party don't you? I'd say Diouf has many attributes as well as several weaknesses, but then if he didn't have weaknesses he would have signed for a more succesful club than us. He was hasty in my opinion, that doesn't mean Diouf is beyond criticism though as long as it's constructive..... I've come close to writing many a player off over the years mate, and been proven wrong, so I'm not going to start condemning anybody else for it
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2015 18:43:16 GMT
Isn't the point that this is what YOU were hoping he would be? There is no saying that Mark Hughes or the management team thought that. Perhaps they just thought that he would compliment what we already have at the club? There's plenty to suggest that actually Dave. The pursuit, the high fee we were willing to spend, the high wages. He wasn't signed to be a squad player. The 7m that we were prepared to spend is actually 5m less than the fee those other players cost their respective clubs though isn't it? That also assumes that we were prepared to spend 7m given that the club baulked at paying whatever the fee was in the first place. Maybe they felt 7m was too high and reports of what we were prepared to pay were exaggerated. Hughes wanted Diouf. Undoubtedly. He was right to do so. He offers us a lot. He might not be your cup of tea and not what you expected but you are taking exception to someone criticising your view, rightly in my opinion, that Diouf is a write off or you were close to writing him off. That is just plain ridiculous really. You seemingly like debate but only if that debate involves supporting the views that you express. Diouf's done well. There are still 10 games to go and if he reaches 10 league goals in his first season with us, given his been shunted wide and had the AFCON interrupt his season, then I think he's had a good first season with us. There are numerous forwards who've cost way more than what we were allegedly willing to spend on Diouf and haven't delivered what he has.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 18:55:58 GMT
He didn't just give an opinion though, he said he was close to writing him off. You only write someone off if they have nothing to bring to the party don't you? I'd say Diouf has many attributes as well as several weaknesses, but then if he didn't have weaknesses he would have signed for a more succesful club than us. He was hasty in my opinion, that doesn't mean Diouf is beyond criticism though as long as it's constructive..... I've come close to writing many a player off over the years mate, and been proven wrong, so I'm not going to start condemning anybody else for it I wrote Gordon Marshall of after one game, luckily so do did the management.....
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:02:38 GMT
Spot on Rob It's a point I've raised on a few occasions. I just don't see why people can't give an honest opinion week by week without getting this 'support the team' bullshit. As you quite rightly say, it isn't like you're going to the matches and hurling abuse at the players you think are playing poorly or aren't up to scratch. It's simply an opinion on a message board; a point of discussion for fellow Stoke fans. Also, while I'm on one, all the fucking point scoring bollocks on the message board is starting to grate on me too. You can predict a couple of the post match thread titles and their authors before a game most weeks (depending on the result). It's like you have to nail your colours to the mast and take that opinion to your grave. Personally though, I quite like the freedom to change my mind regarding a player, as I've done on many occasions in the past. Controversial, I know. Just a couple of points pickle. There ARE people going to the match and hurling abuse at him and he (and others) HAVE nailed their colours to the mast and nothing will now not change their mind ergo will be less entitled to give an honest opinion about his performance Utter bollocks. For starters, I've already changed my mind about him once, so how have I nailed anything to anything? I always give my honest opinion. There are players I don't rate but when they have a good game I say so. If there's one person on this board who doesn't go in for all that bullshit it's me.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:04:59 GMT
I like Diouf I was just reiterating Rob's point really. Too often on here, people get accused of not supporting the team when giving an opinion on a player's performance. It shouldn't be like that. I've disagreed with plenty of folk on here, but never doubted that they want the player to succeed. He didn't just give an opinion though, he said he was close to writing him off. You only write someone off if they have nothing to bring to the party don't you? I'd say Diouf has many attributes as well as several weaknesses, but then if he didn't have weaknesses he would have signed for a more succesful club than us. He was hasty in my opinion, that doesn't mean Diouf is beyond criticism though as long as it's constructive..... But I talked about his attributes in the very post you keep coming back to. You've seized on one line of a much more considered post. Why don't you talk about the whole of it in context rather than that bit and your limited definition of it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 19:09:53 GMT
He didn't just give an opinion though, he said he was close to writing him off. You only write someone off if they have nothing to bring to the party don't you? I'd say Diouf has many attributes as well as several weaknesses, but then if he didn't have weaknesses he would have signed for a more succesful club than us. He was hasty in my opinion, that doesn't mean Diouf is beyond criticism though as long as it's constructive..... But I talked about his attributes in the very post you keep coming back to. You've seized on one line of a much more considered post. Why don't you talk about the whole of it in context rather than that bit and your limited definition of it? So despite listing his attributes you still wanted to write him off? Makes it even more bizarre than if you just said "he's shit" to be honest....
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:10:00 GMT
There's plenty to suggest that actually Dave. The pursuit, the high fee we were willing to spend, the high wages. He wasn't signed to be a squad player. The 7m that we were prepared to spend is actually 5m less than the fee those other players cost their respective clubs though isn't it? That also assumes that we were prepared to spend 7m given that the club baulked at paying whatever the fee was in the first place. Maybe they felt 7m was too high and reports of what we were prepared to pay were exaggerated. Hughes wanted Diouf. Undoubtedly. He was right to do so. He offers us a lot. He might not be your cup of tea and not what you expected but you are taking exception to someone criticising your view, rightly in my opinion, that Diouf is a write off or you were close to writing him off. That is just plain ridiculous really. You seemingly like debate but only if that debate involves supporting the views that you express. Diouf's done well. There are still 10 games to go and if he reaches 10 league goals in his first season with us, given his been shunted wide and had the AFCON interrupt his season, then I think he's had a good first season with us. There are numerous forwards who've cost way more than what we were allegedly willing to spend on Diouf and haven't delivered what he has. Bollocks again Dave. I like debate and if I've got a point to put across I'll defend it, which is what I'm doing. People think in wrong, I'll say why I think what I think. That's how the board works and you're no different on here yourself, are you? I don't see Diouf being the player we thought we were signing - the one in two dangerman who leads the line and is our talisman in the way that those strikers mentioned are/were or that Austin/Ings etc are for their clubs. Of course he's done well to score the goals he has and he has a fair few admirable traits. But he's an option, rather than THE option, and I'm pretty sure the latter is what he was brought in to be.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:10:36 GMT
But I talked about his attributes in the very post you keep coming back to. You've seized on one line of a much more considered post. Why don't you talk about the whole of it in context rather than that bit and your limited definition of it? So despite listing his attributes you still wanted to write him off? Makes it even more bizarre than if you just said "he's shit" to be honest.... To write him off as the answer, as our long term first choice centre forward, yes absolutely.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 19:11:53 GMT
The 7m that we were prepared to spend is actually 5m less than the fee those other players cost their respective clubs though isn't it? That also assumes that we were prepared to spend 7m given that the club baulked at paying whatever the fee was in the first place. Maybe they felt 7m was too high and reports of what we were prepared to pay were exaggerated. Hughes wanted Diouf. Undoubtedly. He was right to do so. He offers us a lot. He might not be your cup of tea and not what you expected but you are taking exception to someone criticising your view, rightly in my opinion, that Diouf is a write off or you were close to writing him off. That is just plain ridiculous really. You seemingly like debate but only if that debate involves supporting the views that you express. Diouf's done well. There are still 10 games to go and if he reaches 10 league goals in his first season with us, given his been shunted wide and had the AFCON interrupt his season, then I think he's had a good first season with us. There are numerous forwards who've cost way more than what we were allegedly willing to spend on Diouf and haven't delivered what he has. Bollocks again Dave. I like debate and if I've got a point to put across I'll defend it, which is what I'm doing. People think in wrong, I'll say why I think what I think. That's how the board works and you're no different on here yourself, are you? I don't see Diouf being the player we thought we were signing - the one in two dangerman who leads the line and is our talisman in the way that those strikers mentioned are/were or that Austin/Ings etc are for their clubs. Of course he's done well to score the goals he has and he has a fair few admirable traits. But he's an option, rather than THE option, and I'm pretty sure the latter is what he was brought in to be. But you're not sure, it's merely supposition...... Anyway I guess we're going round in circles so I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one chief....
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:17:02 GMT
Bollocks again Dave. I like debate and if I've got a point to put across I'll defend it, which is what I'm doing. People think in wrong, I'll say why I think what I think. That's how the board works and you're no different on here yourself, are you? I don't see Diouf being the player we thought we were signing - the one in two dangerman who leads the line and is our talisman in the way that those strikers mentioned are/were or that Austin/Ings etc are for their clubs. Of course he's done well to score the goals he has and he has a fair few admirable traits. But he's an option, rather than THE option, and I'm pretty sure the latter is what he was brought in to be. But you're not sure, it's merely supposition...... Anyway I guess we're going round in circles so I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one chief.... The evidence is compelling though isn't it PP? Who started the season as first choice centre forward? Is he one of the highest earners at the club? Did we chase him for months and beat other big clubs to his signature? Were we prepared to pay what is in the Hughes era a fortune to secure his services? He's done pretty well, but is he worth the status suggested by those things? I like him as an option, just as I liked Cameron Jerome. But Jerome really was just an option. I'm happy to agree to disagree though.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 6, 2015 19:22:34 GMT
'I'm close to writing him off'......'He's done pretty well'.....?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 19:35:19 GMT
But you're not sure, it's merely supposition...... Anyway I guess we're going round in circles so I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one chief.... The evidence is compelling though isn't it PP? Who started the season as first choice centre forward? Is he one of the highest earners at the club? Did we chase him for months and beat other big clubs to his signature? Were we prepared to pay what is in the Hughes era a fortune to secure his services? He's done pretty well, but is he worth the status suggested by those things? I like him as an option, just as I liked Cameron Jerome. But Jerome really was just an option. I'm happy to agree to disagree though. I won't give you my opinion on Jerome, you'll start telling me how he single handedly stopped us from getting relegated again.....
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:35:38 GMT
'I'm close to writing him off'......'He's done pretty well'.....? I've explained things pretty clearly on the thread mate. I've written him off as the main man. I don't see the flaws in his game as teething problems. I think they'll awakes be there. Seven goals is a respectable return, not least because technically he's pretty dreadful.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:37:03 GMT
The evidence is compelling though isn't it PP? Who started the season as first choice centre forward? Is he one of the highest earners at the club? Did we chase him for months and beat other big clubs to his signature? Were we prepared to pay what is in the Hughes era a fortune to secure his services? He's done pretty well, but is he worth the status suggested by those things? I like him as an option, just as I liked Cameron Jerome. But Jerome really was just an option. I'm happy to agree to disagree though. I won't give you my opinion on Jerome, you'll start telling me how he single handedly stopped us from getting relegated again..... Not single-handedly, but we'd likely have gone down without him, yes. Again, a look at the facts suggests as much.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 6, 2015 19:43:59 GMT
'I'm close to writing him off'......'He's done pretty well'.....? I've explained things pretty clearly on the thread mate. I've written him off as the main man. I don't see the flaws in his game as teething problems. I think they'll awakes be there. Seven goals is a respectable return, not least because technically he's pretty dreadful. How do you account for his record in Germany, do you watch the league? As a non follower myself, I can only assume it is much poorer than is made out. But I still feel Diouf is doing ok, with the potential to do better.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 19:45:53 GMT
I've explained things pretty clearly on the thread mate. I've written him off as the main man. I don't see the flaws in his game as teething problems. I think they'll awakes be there. Seven goals is a respectable return, not least because technically he's pretty dreadful. How do you account for his record in Germany, do you watch the league? As a non follower myself, I can only assume it is much poorer than is made out. But I still feel Diouf is doing ok, with the potential to do better. That's my suspicion as well, that it isn't as high a standard as I'd previously thought, as an only occasional viewer of it.
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billc
Youth Player
Posts: 493
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Post by billc on Mar 6, 2015 19:50:03 GMT
I was at the match on Wednesday night. It was my first match of the season and I thoroughly enjoyed it. On one occasion when Diouf aimlessly chased after a ball in a headless fashion some wag behind me shouted " Run Forest Run" which amused me
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 19:53:43 GMT
It'd just be nice to see more of those runs like the one against Citeh when the ball's at his feet, rather than it pinging off his shin or his first touch taking it miles out of his way or him falling on his arse. Needs games.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 6, 2015 19:57:32 GMT
As far as I can see he is taking abuse and reacting. However he is still being professional and plying his trade, so I for one have no problem with that.
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Post by kevkj on Mar 6, 2015 20:00:00 GMT
I see Everton fans saying Lakaku cant trap a bag of cement.How much did he cost. Maybe Diouf may be better in a front two playing off the shoulder of defenders.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 6, 2015 20:20:11 GMT
I was at the match on Wednesday night. It was my first match of the season and I thoroughly enjoyed it. On one occasion when Diouf aimlessly chased after a ball in a headless fashion some wag behind me shouted " Run Forest Run" which amused me Hilarious.... I bet that would have cheered him up no end if he'd heard it.
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Post by Squeekster on Mar 6, 2015 20:31:05 GMT
Being a season ticket holder and gone a few away games I haven't heard anyone abuse him yes comments but never abuse,that's not to sat it doesn't happen but probably an isolated incident.
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Post by jonnybravo on Mar 6, 2015 20:56:40 GMT
If he was played more upfront than on the wing he would of scored more
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Mar 6, 2015 21:38:44 GMT
That's not true. Nzonzi gave him big hug. As did walters, talk about making something out of nothing if anything if might be something in the lads personal life or maybe he reads this forum I hope not because there is plenty of crap spouted on it at times.
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Post by stayingupforalasrimmed on Mar 7, 2015 8:16:42 GMT
There's plenty to suggest that actually Dave. The pursuit, the high fee we were willing to spend, the high wages. He wasn't signed to be a squad player. The 7m that we were prepared to spend is actually 5m less than the fee those other players cost their respective clubs though isn't it? That also assumes that we were prepared to spend 7m given that the club baulked at paying whatever the fee was in the first place. Maybe they felt 7m was too high and reports of what we were prepared to pay were exaggerated. Hughes wanted Diouf. Undoubtedly. He was right to do so. He offers us a lot. He might not be your cup of tea and not what you expected but you are taking exception to someone criticising your view, rightly in my opinion, that Diouf is a write off or you were close to writing him off. That is just plain ridiculous really. You seemingly like debate but only if that debate involves supporting the views that you express. Diouf's done well. There are still 10 games to go and if he reaches 10 league goals in his first season with us, given his been shunted wide and had the AFCON interrupt his season, then I think he's had a good first season with us. There are numerous forwards who've cost way more than what we were allegedly willing to spend on Diouf and haven't delivered what he has. Just ask Brendon Rogers
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Post by Binndy on Mar 7, 2015 8:26:31 GMT
8 goals so far. 10 games left. Diouf capable of at least 4 more. He played many games on the wing. He works hard around midfield . There are games to start with crouch or to bring crouch on . That good for stoke. According to some the lazy b kj had to go. He did we got two hard working for the 90 mins in odemwingie and diouf and people still moan Maybe around 12 goals in your first season is brill for us.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 7, 2015 11:12:20 GMT
We still don't play him right, he made some cracking runs on Wednesday and it was mainly that fucked up not releasing the ball for them, fucks me off no end.
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Post by StokeAz on Mar 7, 2015 11:30:02 GMT
Diouf had a really poor game when he came off the bench and his goal was a tap in. It was arnie that got us the goal really so that's probably why
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 14:05:35 GMT
Diouf had a really poor game when he came off the bench and his goal was a tap in. It was arnie that got us the goal really so that's probably why Him coming on was the reason that Everton had to play 20 yards deeper. He was far from poor, and he did what he was sent on to do. And he scored.
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Post by kustokie on Mar 7, 2015 15:50:43 GMT
He didn't just give an opinion though, he said he was close to writing him off. You only write someone off if they have nothing to bring to the party don't you? I'd say Diouf has many attributes as well as several weaknesses, but then if he didn't have weaknesses he would have signed for a more succesful club than us. He was hasty in my opinion, that doesn't mean Diouf is beyond criticism though as long as it's constructive..... I've come close to writing many a player off over the years mate, and been proven wrong, so I'm not going to start condemning anybody else for it Calling someone "shite" is not very constructive, but everyone is entitled to an opinion.
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