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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 14:42:41 GMT
I think there's more than enough pros and cons to make it a debate worth having, despite the usual suspects trying to stop that. Do you see him becoming the main man we thought we were signing? Our equivalent of a Bony/Benteke/Lukaku? I never necessarily saw him as "the main man", I jus thought he was a good value for money signing based on the fact we didn't have to pay a fee for him. With regards him being a Benteke/Lukaku equivalent, based on this season pound for pound he's a far better signing. I like him, and more importantly I feel there's far more to come from him so on that basis I'm happy to give him more time, a run of games up front and another pre-season to get sharp/confident. The only point I was and continue to make was that your reaction was in my opinion very knee jerk: "As a staunch defender of him all along I'm close to writing him off. He's useful with his pace and work ethic but for a player with his record in Germany he just doesn't seem like a top level striker. His touch isn't there. His confidence isn't recovering. He doesn't anticipate knock downs or rebounds"He's scored 7 in 20 odd games (almost identical to Crouchie) and he's had a stop start season. I believe that will improve in line with his convidence yes I'm convinced of that.... Thanks for quoting me, thus proving it was a far more balanced assessment than you suggested and you did in fact just seize on a few words in a much longer post. The point is that he was surely signed to be the main man. It wasn't one we took a flyer on - this was our guy, supposedly. Moving forward, that's potentially going to be a problem. I don't think generally that technique improves by the time you reach his age either. As wingy says, he is what he is. But given our resources, is that enough?
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Post by pez75 on Mar 6, 2015 14:49:26 GMT
Even when it's played in front of him though he frequently spanners it with his first touch. I love having a quick striker and he's a likeable chap with his work rate and poaching, but I still think we need better as first choice. I think I agree. He's not the player that I thought he was. However, when he's up front he keeps finding himself among the goals and I'd like to see him get a proper run there from now until the end of the season. If he got, say, five goals in the remaining ten games, that would be very difficult to ignore. I disagree, Hughes seems to be getting the best out of our players by picking the right ones for the right games, so in him I trust.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 14:49:20 GMT
Then don't argue about it then. Nobody's making you. I just get frustrated that anybody who dares suggest there might be flaws worth discussing gets screeched at. Given his reputation, his reported wages and the fact that we were prepared to spend big on him before landing him on a free, he was signed to be rather more than 'a decent option' (which he undeniably is). That's the issue, especially if we have limited funds. There's suggesting flaws and there's damn right slagging off. It's your prerogative to slag him off and write him off as it's mine to criticise you for doing so. So your issue with him is that Mark was 'rumoured' to want to sign him for £7 million when we 'have limited funds'. Shouldn't your issue be with Hughes? But you and others have painted yourselves into that corner and what ever he does you'll have a clever excuse to justify your stance on him. Again I'm bored of it, I'll just get behind one of our players. Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 6, 2015 14:54:29 GMT
I think there's more than enough pros and cons to make it a debate worth having, despite the usual suspects trying to stop that. Do you see him becoming the main man we thought we were signing? Our equivalent of a Bony/Benteke/Lukaku? Isn't the point that this is what YOU were hoping he would be? There is no saying that Mark Hughes or the management team thought that. Perhaps they just thought that he would compliment what we already have at the club? Hughes has chased this player virtually since the day he joined the club and was prepared to part with a substantial fee for him at one stage. More than anything I expected him to tick a lot of the boxes for the striker in Hughes's favoured system but he doesn't. That's the puzzling bit.
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 6, 2015 14:58:39 GMT
There's suggesting flaws and there's damn right slagging off. It's your prerogative to slag him off and write him off as it's mine to criticise you for doing so. So your issue with him is that Mark was 'rumoured' to want to sign him for £7 million when we 'have limited funds'. Shouldn't your issue be with Hughes? But you and others have painted yourselves into that corner and what ever he does you'll have a clever excuse to justify your stance on him. Again I'm bored of it, I'll just get behind one of our players. Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time? So you're in your right to 'bollock' for writing him off after 2 games but you're taking offence for posters pointing out you should be writing him off after 3/4 of a season? A season where he's pkayed on both wings, missed a few weeks whilst at the AFCON and has STILL SCORED THE SAME LEAGUE HOALS AS OUR OTHER 2. Glad it's a level playing field. Just let me know who I can defend in future, thanks.
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Post by foster on Mar 6, 2015 14:58:41 GMT
Ok, he could be better and we should probably be looking at an upgrade.
However, the attention he's drawing here would make anyone think he's been absolute dog shit and not scored any goals. Which is not correct in either case.
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 6, 2015 14:59:40 GMT
Isn't the point that this is what YOU were hoping he would be? There is no saying that Mark Hughes or the management team thought that. Perhaps they just thought that he would compliment what we already have at the club? Hughes has chased this player virtually since the day he joined the club and was prepared to part with a substantial fee for him at one stage. More than anything I expected him to tick a lot of the boxes for the striker in Hughes's favoured system but he doesn't. That's the puzzling bit. Yeah. Hughes out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 15:00:58 GMT
I never necessarily saw him as "the main man", I jus thought he was a good value for money signing based on the fact we didn't have to pay a fee for him. With regards him being a Benteke/Lukaku equivalent, based on this season pound for pound he's a far better signing. I like him, and more importantly I feel there's far more to come from him so on that basis I'm happy to give him more time, a run of games up front and another pre-season to get sharp/confident. The only point I was and continue to make was that your reaction was in my opinion very knee jerk: "As a staunch defender of him all along I'm close to writing him off. He's useful with his pace and work ethic but for a player with his record in Germany he just doesn't seem like a top level striker. His touch isn't there. His confidence isn't recovering. He doesn't anticipate knock downs or rebounds"He's scored 7 in 20 odd games (almost identical to Crouchie) and he's had a stop start season. I believe that will improve in line with his convidence yes I'm convinced of that.... Thanks for quoting me, thus proving it was a far more balanced assessment than you suggested and you did in fact just seize on a few words in a much longer post. The point is that he was surely signed to be the main man. It wasn't one we took a flyer on - this was our guy, supposedly. Moving forward, that's potentially going to be a problem. I don't think generally that technique improves by the time you reach his age either. As wingy says, he is what he is. But given our resources, is that enough? "I'm close to writing him off" is far from balanced. "He was surely signed to be the main man" We have ex-England international Peter Crouch on our books, so not necessarily. Nothing factual about that statement whatsoever. ..."he is what he is. But given our resources, is that enough?" It's a team game and we're 8th. What are you expecting? "I don't think generally that technique improves by the time you reach his age either" He showed some real technique with some of the goals I saw him score in the Bundesliga, so on the flip side you don't lose it either just improve with confidence maybe?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 6, 2015 15:04:55 GMT
Hughes has chased this player virtually since the day he joined the club and was prepared to part with a substantial fee for him at one stage. More than anything I expected him to tick a lot of the boxes for the striker in Hughes's favoured system but he doesn't. That's the puzzling bit. Yeah. Hughes out. Ha ha. It really is that clear in your la la land isn't it. Jesus wept. Get a grip man.
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 6, 2015 15:06:21 GMT
Ha ha. It really is that clear in your la la land isn't it. Jesus wept. Get a grip man. (wave)
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 6, 2015 15:11:35 GMT
No conspiracy.
He's just not Ric. He isn't, he's scored more league goals...
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 15:14:57 GMT
Thanks for quoting me, thus proving it was a far more balanced assessment than you suggested and you did in fact just seize on a few words in a much longer post. The point is that he was surely signed to be the main man. It wasn't one we took a flyer on - this was our guy, supposedly. Moving forward, that's potentially going to be a problem. I don't think generally that technique improves by the time you reach his age either. As wingy says, he is what he is. But given our resources, is that enough? "I'm close to writing him off" is far from balanced. "He was surely signed to be the main man" We have ex-England international Peter Crouch on our books, so not necessarily. Nothing factual about that statement whatsoever. ..."he is what he is. But given our resources, is that enough?" It's a team game and we're 8th. What are you expecting? "I don't think generally that technique improves by the time you reach his age either" He showed some real technique with some of the goals I saw him score in the Bundesliga, so on the flip side you don't lose it either just improve with confidence maybe? Again, you seize on one sentence of a much longer, more balanced post in which I praised elements of his game and stressed the reasons for my thinking. I don't think you spend loads of time pursuing a player you're prepared to shell out a hefty fee or give big wages to if you don't expect him to be an integral part of your side. He did it in the Bundesliga but I'm not sure that's the barometer many, me included, thought it was.
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Post by southcarolinastokie on Mar 6, 2015 15:16:42 GMT
Delighted we signed him, especially for free rather than the 7m Hannover wanted. I know he has been moved about a lot but his first touch and passing are shocking for a player in the top league. He has scored 8 times, great, but if he had more about him it could have been more, the miss agianst United and Blackburn were bad but I for one think he has a long way to go to prove he deserves a start once we have everyone fit and ready
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 15:16:35 GMT
Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time? So you're in your right to 'bollock' for writing him off after 2 games but you're taking offence for posters pointing out you should be writing him off after 3/4 of a season? A season where he's pkayed on both wings, missed a few weeks whilst at the AFCON and has STILL SCORED THE SAME LEAGUE HOALS AS OUR OTHER 2. Glad it's a level playing field. Just let me know who I can defend in future, thanks. No, that's my point. I was hopelessly wrong in the first place. I've articulated my issues with him. Play him for 60 games in a row up front and I don't see his touch getting any better.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Mar 6, 2015 15:41:55 GMT
I can see both sides of the argument put forward by Chief and PP, and in a way you are both right.
MH clearly had a new style in mind from the off and there has been an injection of pace into our attacking play. He needed a pacey, goal scoring striker and originally fancied MBD for this role. The shenanigans between club and agent deterred SCFC originally, but he was prepared to pay a fee.
Meantime, Wingie becomes available in the Deal of the Century swap with a disillusioned Kenwyne. Look at the blueprint: pacy striker with an impressive goals to games ratio in The Prem. A gamble based on those attributes. Mame is exactly the same, only based on his stats in the Bundsliga.
Wingie paid off spectacularly and immediately. But he was already up to speed with the Prem and probably "came home" as opposed to "moved Country".
I don't think MH ever saw MBD as a Bony type of player. He's not going to be a back to goal striker. He will thrive on a higher defensive line with the ball played in front of him or coming in from wide. I quite like the way he comes deep to tackle back too, then still has the pace to get into the box to support the breaking players.
PP is right. He's got talents that suit this league, particularly away from home. Rob is right - there are more flaws in his game than we might have hoped. The worrying thing is confidence. Benteke and Lukaku look like poor relations of the strikers of a couple of seasons ago and much of that must be confidence.
If MH and the team can build his confidence, it might just have an effect on his anticipation and his willingness to gamble on knock downs etc. In a way, we don't need him to have a great touch - we want him to be arriving in the penalty area at the speed of an express train and to have one touch into the net from a ball played in hard and fast, a bit like an Andy Cole type of striker.
I'm still hopeful that the best is yet to come from Mame Diouf.
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 6, 2015 16:00:06 GMT
No conspiracy.
He's just not Ric. He isn't, he's scored more league goals... Ha, ha. Fairy-nuff Wingie.
The metric here however, is pure 'luuurve'.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 6, 2015 16:00:00 GMT
I think there's more than enough pros and cons to make it a debate worth having, despite the usual suspects trying to stop that. Do you see him becoming the main man we thought we were signing? Our equivalent of a Bony/Benteke/Lukaku? Isn't the point that this is what YOU were hoping he would be? There is no saying that Mark Hughes or the management team thought that. Perhaps they just thought that he would compliment what we already have at the club? There's plenty to suggest that actually Dave. The pursuit, the high fee we were willing to spend, the high wages. He wasn't signed to be a squad player.
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Post by trigger on Mar 6, 2015 16:03:33 GMT
I'm not a fan of MBD but he was rather poor against Everton, on two occasions he ran down the left wing a matter of yards from the Boothen End and for reasons only known to himself hammered the ball back to Pieters/Wilson, wouldn't be a bad thing but they were at least 20 yards in their own half.
Then a great through ball to him and,,, back heeled it. Time and time again he gets in some great forward positions only to stop or balls the pass up.
I really don't know what to make of the fellow, but if the rumours are true about his salary I'd expect a great deal more from him.
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Post by choppyc on Mar 6, 2015 16:09:00 GMT
So, He's incredibly fast. Powerful. Decent in the air. Works his nuts off. Has a very decent goal scoring record in the Bundersleague. If you added in good technical ability too, well he wouldn't be anywhere near our club would he? We're just not going to get perfect players at Stoke - they are always going to have their problems/deficiencies. The sooner we focus on what the players offer us, rather than what they lack - the better. Not only the post of the day...but the best post I've seen in ages , but it can & should also be used to encompass,with slight Adjustments to the list of attributes ... All the players who come In for underserved critism on occasions on this board , be it Walters , Wilson , Bardsley , Cameron , Ireland , Sidwell etc I wonder if Diouf is slightly suffering from nothing more than a culture adjustment and the African Cup timing just had the adverse effect of breaking up his team bonding & 'the Stoke way' acclimation ?....And some of us are just picking up on the fact he's still settling in and it's nothing more sinister than that ?
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 6, 2015 17:30:38 GMT
There's suggesting flaws and there's damn right slagging off. It's your prerogative to slag him off and write him off as it's mine to criticise you for doing so. So your issue with him is that Mark was 'rumoured' to want to sign him for £7 million when we 'have limited funds'. Shouldn't your issue be with Hughes? But you and others have painted yourselves into that corner and what ever he does you'll have a clever excuse to justify your stance on him. Again I'm bored of it, I'll just get behind one of our players. Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time? Spot on Rob It's a point I've raised on a few occasions. I just don't see why people can't give an honest opinion week by week without getting this 'support the team' bullshit. As you quite rightly say, it isn't like you're going to the matches and hurling abuse at the players you think are playing poorly or aren't up to scratch. It's simply an opinion on a message board; a point of discussion for fellow Stoke fans. Also, while I'm on one, all the fucking point scoring bollocks on the message board is starting to grate on me too. You can predict a couple of the post match thread titles and their authors before a game most weeks (depending on the result). It's like you have to nail your colours to the mast and take that opinion to your grave. Personally though, I quite like the freedom to change my mind regarding a player, as I've done on many occasions in the past. Controversial, I know.
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Post by mailman44 on Mar 6, 2015 17:43:20 GMT
Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time? Spot on Rob It's a point I've raised on a few occasions. I just don't see why people can't give an honest opinion week by week without getting this 'support the team' bullshit. As you quite rightly say, it isn't like you're going to the matches and hurling abuse at the players you think are playing poorly or aren't up to scratch. It's simply an opinion on a message board; a point of discussion for fellow Stoke fans. Also, while I'm on one, all the fucking point scoring bollocks on the message board is starting to grate on me too. You can predict a couple of the post match thread titles and their authors before a game most weeks (depending on the result). It's like you have to nail your colours to the mast and take that opinion to your grave. Personally though, I quite like the freedom to change my mind regarding a player, as I've done on many occasions in the past. Controversial, I know. Mr Pickles, I respect your opinion but mine is different. I think Diouf is a great signing for us and he is going to score 12+ goals for us this year. If anybody was expecting him to bag 20+ then have a word with yourself for FFS. He has been excellent value in a free! He has sacrificed himself to help the side and runs all day and has never heard of a lost cause to chase. He stretches defenses, makes great runs off the ball (that Adam would pick out if they for the chance to play together) and his work rate is outstanding. His hard work as our first line of defense makes it so hard for sides like Everton to play out of the back and is key to our high press. Superb signing who will only get better.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 6, 2015 17:45:00 GMT
There's suggesting flaws and there's damn right slagging off. It's your prerogative to slag him off and write him off as it's mine to criticise you for doing so. So your issue with him is that Mark was 'rumoured' to want to sign him for £7 million when we 'have limited funds'. Shouldn't your issue be with Hughes? But you and others have painted yourselves into that corner and what ever he does you'll have a clever excuse to justify your stance on him. Again I'm bored of it, I'll just get behind one of our players. Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time? You should have learnt by now that if you have a concern about a players ability etc then its classed as slagging them off on here.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 6, 2015 18:03:37 GMT
Not interested in anything in particular. Just strange that a normally level headed poster would choose to write off a player in the infancy of his Stoke career as you clearly did, despite him being our joint top scorer with Crouchie and Walters in the league and there being several mitigating circumstances. But this has been done to death so I'll say no more..... I think there's more than enough pros and cons to make it a debate worth having, despite the usual suspects trying to stop that. Do you see him becoming the main man we thought we were signing? Our equivalent of a Bony/Benteke/Lukaku? He is our player I would take him over that little lot on current form anyhow.
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 6, 2015 18:04:23 GMT
Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time? Spot on Rob It's a point I've raised on a few occasions. I just don't see why people can't give an honest opinion week by week without getting this 'support the team' bullshit. As you quite rightly say, it isn't like you're going to the matches and hurling abuse at the players you think are playing poorly or aren't up to scratch. It's simply an opinion on a message board; a point of discussion for fellow Stoke fans. Also, while I'm on one, all the fucking point scoring bollocks on the message board is starting to grate on me too. You can predict a couple of the post match thread titles and their authors before a game most weeks (depending on the result). It's like you have to nail your colours to the mast and take that opinion to your grave. Personally though, I quite like the freedom to change my mind regarding a player, as I've done on many occasions in the past. Controversial, I know. Just a couple of points pickle. There ARE people going to the match and hurling abuse at him and he (and others) HAVE nailed their colours to the mast and nothing will now not change their mind ergo will be less entitled to give an honest opinion about his performance
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Post by crownmeking on Mar 6, 2015 18:07:22 GMT
I'm not a fan of MBD but he was rather poor against Everton, on two occasions he ran down the left wing a matter of yards from the Boothen End and for reasons only known to himself hammered the ball back to Pieters/Wilson, wouldn't be a bad thing but they were at least 20 yards in their own half. Then a great through ball to him and,,, back heeled it. Time and time again he gets in some great forward positions only to stop or balls the pass up. I really don't know what to make of the fellow, but if the rumours are true about his salary I'd expect a great deal more from him. You don't know what to make of him? Yes you do, you slagged him off plenty on this board.
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 6, 2015 18:11:13 GMT
Spot on Rob It's a point I've raised on a few occasions. I just don't see why people can't give an honest opinion week by week without getting this 'support the team' bullshit. As you quite rightly say, it isn't like you're going to the matches and hurling abuse at the players you think are playing poorly or aren't up to scratch. It's simply an opinion on a message board; a point of discussion for fellow Stoke fans. Also, while I'm on one, all the fucking point scoring bollocks on the message board is starting to grate on me too. You can predict a couple of the post match thread titles and their authors before a game most weeks (depending on the result). It's like you have to nail your colours to the mast and take that opinion to your grave. Personally though, I quite like the freedom to change my mind regarding a player, as I've done on many occasions in the past. Controversial, I know. Mr Pickles, I respect your opinion but mine is different. I think Diouf is a great signing for us and he is going to score 12+ goals for us this year. If anybody was expecting him to bag 20+ then have a word with yourself for FFS. He has been excellent value in a free! He has sacrificed himself to help the side and runs all day and has never heard of a lost cause to chase. He stretches defenses, makes great runs off the ball (that Adam would pick out if they for the chance to play together) and his work rate is outstanding. His hard work as our first line of defense makes it so hard for sides like Everton to play out of the back and is key to our high press. Superb signing who will only get better. I like Diouf I was just reiterating Rob's point really. Too often on here, people get accused of not supporting the team when giving an opinion on a player's performance. It shouldn't be like that. I've disagreed with plenty of folk on here, but never doubted that they want the player to succeed.
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 6, 2015 18:22:59 GMT
Spot on Rob It's a point I've raised on a few occasions. I just don't see why people can't give an honest opinion week by week without getting this 'support the team' bullshit. As you quite rightly say, it isn't like you're going to the matches and hurling abuse at the players you think are playing poorly or aren't up to scratch. It's simply an opinion on a message board; a point of discussion for fellow Stoke fans. Also, while I'm on one, all the fucking point scoring bollocks on the message board is starting to grate on me too. You can predict a couple of the post match thread titles and their authors before a game most weeks (depending on the result). It's like you have to nail your colours to the mast and take that opinion to your grave. Personally though, I quite like the freedom to change my mind regarding a player, as I've done on many occasions in the past. Controversial, I know. Just a couple of points pickle. There ARE people going to the match and hurling abuse at him and he (and others) HAVE nailed their colours to the mast and nothing will now not change their mind ergo will be less entitled to give an honest opinion about his performance Well the idiot/s who did that don't deserve the time of day obviously, but my point still remains exactly the same (assuming that it wasn't Rob, yourself or any other reasonable poster from here)
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 6, 2015 18:23:43 GMT
Sorry, what's the difference between 'slagging off' and 'pointing out flaws' because as far as I'm concerned I've praised the good in his game as well while highlighting the flaws that worry me. As far as painting myself into a corner goes, I trumpeted on here loud and long about what a signing he'd be, how he'd eclipse Bojan, and bollocked anyone writing him off after two games. I've now got my tail between my legs because that assessment looks stupid. I don't understand the 'shouldn't my issue be with Hughes' stuff. Hughes may well have dropped a bollock but does that mean I can't comment on the player's performances? Finally, I am 'behind the players'. Having opinions on them that aren't unequivocally 'everything is awesome' doesn't mean I'm not cheering them on at games. I don't understand why you still get so upset about people discussing a range of opinions on a messageboard. Would you really be happier if everyone just said every single thing was just super duper all the time? You should have learnt by now that if you have a concern about a players ability etc then its classed as slagging them off on here. I'll catch up
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 18:24:42 GMT
Mr Pickles, I respect your opinion but mine is different. I think Diouf is a great signing for us and he is going to score 12+ goals for us this year. If anybody was expecting him to bag 20+ then have a word with yourself for FFS. He has been excellent value in a free! He has sacrificed himself to help the side and runs all day and has never heard of a lost cause to chase. He stretches defenses, makes great runs off the ball (that Adam would pick out if they for the chance to play together) and his work rate is outstanding. His hard work as our first line of defense makes it so hard for sides like Everton to play out of the back and is key to our high press. Superb signing who will only get better. I like Diouf I was just reiterating Rob's point really. Too often on here, people get accused of not supporting the team when giving an opinion on a player's performance. It shouldn't be like that. I've disagreed with plenty of folk on here, but never doubted that they want the player to succeed. He didn't just give an opinion though, he said he was close to writing him off. You only write someone off if they have nothing to bring to the party don't you? I'd say Diouf has many attributes as well as several weaknesses, but then if he didn't have weaknesses he would have signed for a more succesful club than us. He was hasty in my opinion, that doesn't mean Diouf is beyond criticism though as long as it's constructive.....
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2015 18:38:13 GMT
Isn't the point that this is what YOU were hoping he would be? There is no saying that Mark Hughes or the management team thought that. Perhaps they just thought that he would compliment what we already have at the club? Hughes has chased this player virtually since the day he joined the club and was prepared to part with a substantial fee for him at one stage. More than anything I expected him to tick a lot of the boxes for the striker in Hughes's favoured system but he doesn't. That's the puzzling bit. 7 league goals in 20 league starts probably did tick the box Hughes was looking for more than anything though!
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