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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 9, 2014 9:09:03 GMT
Very true. I remember the days well when we launched missile after missile randomly into Irish civilian areas in responce to the IRA blowing up our town centres. ..... And just read the bit of your post I've quoted again. You don't think that Palestinian's feal under threat from their neighbours? Not similar. The IRA is/was made up of people within our own borders. Not true. The IRA is/was an organisation that operated within the UK and The Republic of Ireland. Two separate states. And the idea that we launched rockets into civilian areas is absolutely ridiculous. Soldiers were spat at...stoned..and petrol bombed but bound by the Yellow Card. IsraelI soldiers don't have these 'limitations'. They are also a conscript army..in Northern Ireland we had regulars.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 9, 2014 9:37:06 GMT
yes your right mate probably got more chance of being killed from a punch than it is 1 of these fireworks Another misconception. The rockets are anything but 'fireworks'. Many are extremely capable older generation rockets from states like Russia/China. The reason they're not effective is Israel's Iron Dome missile interception system and their relative inaccuracy. There would be thousands of casualties otherwise. They're the very definition of indiscriminate killing. Except that they're not killing anyone - so not quite the very definition.
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 9, 2014 10:35:12 GMT
Not similar. The IRA is/was made up of people within our own borders. Not true. The IRA is/was an organisation that operated within the UK and The Republic of Ireland. Two separate states. And the idea that we launched rockets into civilian areas is absolutely ridiculous. Soldiers were spat at...stoned..and petrol bombed but bound by the Yellow Card. IsraelI soldiers don't have these 'limitations'. They are also a conscript army..in Northern Ireland we had regulars. What part of 'made up of people within our own borders' and 'operated within the UK' confused you? We didn't attack civilians because they were our own civilians.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 10:38:48 GMT
Another misconception. The rockets are anything but 'fireworks'. Many are extremely capable older generation rockets from states like Russia/China. The reason they're not effective is Israel's Iron Dome missile interception system and their relative inaccuracy. There would be thousands of casualties otherwise. They're the very definition of indiscriminate killing. Except that they're not killing anyone - so not quite the very definition. So what's killing the Israelis ...Ebola , or Flu..?
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 9, 2014 10:43:20 GMT
Not true. The IRA is/was an organisation that operated within the UK and The Republic of Ireland. Two separate states. And the idea that we launched rockets into civilian areas is absolutely ridiculous. Soldiers were spat at...stoned..and petrol bombed but bound by the Yellow Card. IsraelI soldiers don't have these 'limitations'. They are also a conscript army..in Northern Ireland we had regulars. What part of 'made up of people within our own borders' and 'operated within the UK' confused you? We didn't attack civilians because they were our own civilians. I think it's you who are confused mate.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 9, 2014 10:49:03 GMT
Except that they're not killing anyone - so not quite the very definition. So what's killing the Israelis ...Ebola , or Flu..? To date two Israeli citizens have been killed. Two. You could argue there is more risk of death from ebola than those Hamas rockets. Ineffective is a better description of the killing power rather than indiscriminate. Indiscriminate is better used for the killing of children on a beach.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 9, 2014 10:51:28 GMT
Not true. The IRA is/was an organisation that operated within the UK and The Republic of Ireland. Two separate states. And the idea that we launched rockets into civilian areas is absolutely ridiculous. Soldiers were spat at...stoned..and petrol bombed but bound by the Yellow Card. IsraelI soldiers don't have these 'limitations'. They are also a conscript army..in Northern Ireland we had regulars. What part of 'made up of people within our own borders' and 'operated within the UK' confused you? We didn't attack civilians because they were our own civilians. Not actually true. Tragically we did kill civilians in our own country.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 9, 2014 11:25:52 GMT
That is very sadly true.
Bloody Sunday.
Although I would add that the soldiers stationed up in Londonderry/Derry at the time..There to prop up the RUC who were absolutely knackered because of all the rioting..petrol bombing etc..who were attacked themselves constantly with bricks & petrol bombs..usually launched from the Roswell Flats/Chamberlain Steet areas...were not responsible for the murder of civilians..that was the Parachute Regiment stationed in Belfast...sent up on the day..against all advice on the ground.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 9, 2014 11:36:27 GMT
That is very sadly true. Bloody Sunday. Although I would add that the soldiers stationed up in Londonderry/Derry at the time..There to prop up the RUC who were absolutely knackered because of all the rioting..petrol bombing etc..who were attacked themselves constantly with bricks & petrol bombs..usually launched from the Roswell Flats/Chamberlain Steet areas...were not responsible for the murder of civilians..that was the Parachute Regiment stationed in Belfast...sent up on the day..against all advice on the ground. This is worth considering in one other respect - that no similar incident occurred subsequently. The horror felt by everyone about what happened that day meant, referring back to that earlier cartoon, it was a case of Never Again not Again and Again.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Aug 9, 2014 12:09:54 GMT
That is very sadly true. Bloody Sunday. Although I would add that the soldiers stationed up in Londonderry/Derry at the time..There to prop up the RUC who were absolutely knackered because of all the rioting..petrol bombing etc..who were attacked themselves constantly with bricks & petrol bombs..usually launched from the Roswell Flats/Chamberlain Steet areas...were not responsible for the murder of civilians..that was the Parachute Regiment stationed in Belfast...sent up on the day..against all advice on the ground. the same ones that where probably involved in the Ballymurphy killings before Bloody Sunday
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Post by boothenpaddock86 on Aug 9, 2014 20:22:37 GMT
looks totally one sided to me
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 23:19:08 GMT
Historical comparisons , hidden agendas and personal insults embedded within this thread only seek to show the mistrust and inaccuracies that both sides in this argument seek to exploit and pin on the other. In Gaza the same modus operandi operates but the cold harsh reality is that people are dying in front of the camera.
It would seem that to many on here that winning the argument is the fundamental motivation. I'm a political animal and have a keen interest in world affairs and politics but there comes a point when one needs to adopt the stance of impartiality in order to seek a resolution or way forward . Points scoring achieves nothing.
The leaders of both sides need to do the same. If we are to learn anything from history , then we must not make the same mistakes over and over again.
Sadly , life and death in the Middle East is cheap...very cheap. I casually usually the word 'fuzzy' to describe this phenomena. Many would mistakenly interpret this as racist. They are entitled to form this opinion but nothing could be further from the truth.
This conflict will fight on to the bitter end , and sometimes this is what it takes.
Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Mumf
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 10, 2014 8:02:12 GMT
Historical comparisons , hidden agendas and personal insults embedded within this thread only seek to show the mistrust and inaccuracies that both sides in this argument seek to exploit and pin on the other. In Gaza the same modus operandi operates but the cold harsh reality is that people are dying in front of the camera. It would seem that to many on here that winning the argument is the fundamental motivation. I'm a political animal and have a keen interest in world affairs and politics but there comes a point when one needs to adopt the stance of impartiality in order to seek a resolution or way forward . Points scoring achieves nothing. The leaders of both sides need to do the same. If we are to learn anything from history , then we must not make the same mistakes over and over again. Sadly , life and death in the Middle East is cheap...very cheap. I casually usually the word 'fuzzy' to describe this phenomena. Many would mistakenly interpret this as racist. They are entitled to form this opinion but nothing could be further from the truth. This conflict will fight on to the bitter end , and sometimes this is what it takes. Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Mumf What's wrong with historical comparisons? You've just used maybe the scariest of the lot! You're onto something about the bitter end though - but I'd put it slightly differently. It won't end until the bitterest enemies sit down and talk together. History shows us this to be true - for example South Africa with the ANC, us with the IRA or even further back with the "terrorists" in the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya. In this regard, Hamas, at this time, worry me more than Israel. I'm not at all sure they particularly want peace with Israel. Not if they believe they can restore a Palestinian state. Add to this mix ISIS (or ISIL as they could also be described) who want a Sunni fundamentalist state in the Levant which would see war with not just Israel but also Hezbollah. It's very hard to see any peaceful solution coming forward. Very depressing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 8:22:37 GMT
Because no historical event or war is comparable. The context and reason why I used the nuclear bombs was simply to point out that you have to at times wipe out the opposition before they surrender. Hamas is no different. They are only intent on continuing the struggle when everyone in this world realises it is futile. Israel will not ease up its bombardment and therefore we are destined to see events of a catastrophic nature continue to the bitter end. This is the mentality of the area , the mentality of the region. Life is cheap in the Middle East , always was , always will be. They do not look at life in the same way as those blue rinsers in Home Counties south who bake cakes for the local church .....no these are 'fuzzies' with a fuzzy mentality. This situation will continue because it is the will of its people...even those who have lost numerous members of their own family. It is almost impossible to understand such an idiotic mentality on both sides. Sick twisted fuckers the lot of them. I don't want to see their kind on our shores anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 8:29:01 GMT
Its one more skirmish of many in the area. 1917 - Lord Balfour, Foreign Minister of Great Britain, in letter to Lord Rothschild, gives British government approval to Zionist's goal of building a "national home" in Palestine 1918 - Britain and France occupy former Ottoman Empire lands 1919–21 - Franco-Syrian War 1919–23 - Asia Minor Catastophe, a widescale conflict reshapes Anatolia as continuous fighting incorporates the newly founded Republic of Turkey, Armenia, France, Greece and numerous revolts 1922 - Egypt is granted nominal independence from the United Kingdom. 1922–23 - French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon and British Mandate for Palestine come into power, Emirate of Transjordan is an autonomous region under the Mandate for Palestine 1925 - Sheikh Said rebellion of Kurds against Turkey 1927–30 Ararat rebellion of Kurds, as Republic of Ararat is declared, but dissolved upon defeat 1932 - Kingdom of Saudi Arabia declared in unification of Najd and Hejaz 1933–36 Tribal revolts in Iraq of Assyrians in Simele, Shia in the south and Kurds in the north 1934 - Saudi-Yemeni War 1935 - Persia becomes Iran 1937 - Dersim rebellion, is the largest uprising of the Kurds against Turkey, massive casualties 1939–1945 - Mediterranean and Middle East Theatre 1946 - Emirate of Transjordan becomes Kingdom of Jordan (named Transjordan until 1948) 1946 - Kurdish Republic of Mahabad declared along with Azerbaijan People's Government, but defeated by Iranian military forces and dissolved 1947 - UN General Assembly proposes to divide Palestine into an Arab and Jewish state 1948 - Israel declares independence and Arab-Israeli war erupts petroleum becomes important political factor 1952 - After a revolution in Egypt the monarchy is overthrown 1953 - The coup d'état in Iran 1954 - Gamal Abdel Nasser becomes president of Egypt 1954 - Central Treaty Organization 1956 - Suez Crisis 1961 - First Kurdish-Iraqi War erupts in north Iraq. 1963 - Ba'th Party comes to power in Iraq under the leadership of General Ahmad Hasan al-Bakr and Colonel Abdul Salam Arif 1964 - Abdul Rahman Arif stages military coup in Iraq against the Ba'th Party and brings his brother, Abdul Salam Arif, to power 1967 - Six-Day War, Israel occupies the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, West Bank and Gaza Strip 1967 - Kurds revolt in Western Iran, the revolt is crushed 1968 - Ba'athists stage second military coup under General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, Saddam Hussein is made vice president of Iraq 1970 - Gamal Abdel Nasser dies, Anwar Sadat becomes president of Egypt 1971 - The Aswan High Dam is completed with Soviet help in finance and construction; independence of Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE 1973 - Yom Kippur War 1974 - The PLO is allowed to represent the people of Palestine in the UN 1974–1975 - Second Kurdish-Iraqi War 1975–90 - Lebanese Civil War 1976 - Syria invades Lebanon 1978 - Camp David Accords 1979 - Saddam Hussein becomes president of Iraq; Iranian Revolution; Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty 1980–1989 - Iran–Iraq War results in 1–1.25 million casualties, Iraq uses chemical weapons against Iran and rebel Kurds; large scale economical devastation and surge in oil prices affect the global world economy 1981 - Murder of Anwar Sadat 1982 - Israel invades Lebanon 1987–1990 - First Intifada 1991 - The Gulf War 1993 - Oslo Accords 1994 - 1994 civil war in Yemen 2000 - Israeli troops leave Lebanon 2003 - The 2003 Iraq War 2004–present - Shia insurgency in Yemen 2005 - Syrian troops leave Lebanon as a result of the Cedar Revolution 2006 - The 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict; Saddam Hussein executed for "crimes against humanity" 2010–present - Arab Spring, which culminates in the Syrian Civil War with involvement of many regional powers to either support the Syrian opposition or the ruling Ba'ath party See alsoEdit How may Western lives do you want to wipe out before there is a temporary lull in hostilities. ? Do you think it would solve anything? I don't. I won't be fixing my bayonet anytime soon , not just because I'm a fat old bastuurd , but because with age and experience I have learned that you cannot change entrenched beliefs and opinions of hatred towards another. I admire your sympathetic ideals , but it's just another 'flare up' in a list of many. Neither side seems to have much regard for the impact it is having on the other. A well worn path of destruction....The Fuzzy Syndrome. Can you see the point I'm making.....?
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 10, 2014 9:14:31 GMT
Because no historical event or war is comparable. The context and reason why I used the nuclear bombs was simply to point out that you have to at times wipe out the opposition before they surrender. Hamas is no different. They are only intent on continuing the struggle when everyone in this world realises it is futile. Israel will not ease up its bombardment and therefore we are destined to see events of a catastrophic nature continue to the bitter end. This is the mentality of the area , the mentality of the region. L ife is cheap in the Middle East , always was , always will be. They do not look at life in the same way as those blue rinsers in Home Counties south who bake cakes for the local church ..... no these are 'fuzzies' with a fuzzy mentality. This situation will continue because it is the will of its people...even those who have lost numerous members of their own family. It is almost impossible to understand such an idiotic mentality on both sides. Sick twisted fuckers the lot of them. I don't want to see their kind on our shores anytime soon. Beg to differ on quite a few points above; On lessons from history; if the Americans had paid closer attention to what happened to the French in Vietnam they could have saved themselves (and the Vietnamese) a whole lot of grief! Oh - and Afghanistan's history gives a very good idea of what awaits anyone who fancies involving themselves there. And, as mentioned, the British rapprochement with Jomo Kenyatta shows how dreadful civil conflict can be ended. On life is cheap; consider this as we commemorate the outbreak of WW1, was life cheaper in 1914 than today? For the families of those whose sons died? I think not. On "fuzzies" you've used this a few times - but it ain't appropriate. At least as far as I understand the term which originates from a Rudyard Kipling poem praising the Hadendoa people in Sudan for their fighting bravery and skill. Not really appropriate for describing Palestinians. Lastly on "sick twisted fuckers the lot of them" - really? What all Palestinians, Israel's, Arabs? Including the farmers, doctors, women, children... Gross generalisations always look ugly when you look at them closely. Best to avoid.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 10, 2014 9:22:53 GMT
Its one more skirmish of many in the area. 1917 - Lord Balfour, Foreign Minister of Great Britain, in letter to Lord Rothschild, gives British government approval to Zionist's goal of building a "national home" in Palestine 1918 - Britain and France occupy former Ottoman Empire lands 1919–21 - Franco-Syrian War 1919–23 - Asia Minor Catastophe, a widescale conflict reshapes Anatolia as continuous fighting incorporates the newly founded Republic of Turkey, Armenia, France, Greece and numerous revolts 1922 - Egypt is granted nominal independence from the United Kingdom. 1922–23 - French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon and British Mandate for Palestine come into power, Emirate of Transjordan is an autonomous region under the Mandate for Palestine 1925 - Sheikh Said rebellion of Kurds against Turkey 1927–30 Ararat rebellion of Kurds, as Republic of Ararat is declared, but dissolved upon defeat 1932 - Kingdom of Saudi Arabia declared in unification of Najd and Hejaz 1933–36 Tribal revolts in Iraq of Assyrians in Simele, Shia in the south and Kurds in the north 1934 - Saudi-Yemeni War 1935 - Persia becomes Iran 1937 - Dersim rebellion, is the largest uprising of the Kurds against Turkey, massive casualties 1939–1945 - Mediterranean and Middle East Theatre 1946 - Emirate of Transjordan becomes Kingdom of Jordan (named Transjordan until 1948) 1946 - Kurdish Republic of Mahabad declared along with Azerbaijan People's Government, but defeated by Iranian military forces and dissolved 1947 - UN General Assembly proposes to divide Palestine into an Arab and Jewish state 1948 - Israel declares independence and Arab-Israeli war erupts petroleum becomes important political factor 1952 - After a revolution in Egypt the monarchy is overthrown 1953 - The coup d'état in Iran 1954 - Gamal Abdel Nasser becomes president of Egypt 1954 - Central Treaty Organization 1956 - Suez Crisis 1961 - First Kurdish-Iraqi War erupts in north Iraq. 1963 - Ba'th Party comes to power in Iraq under the leadership of General Ahmad Hasan al-Bakr and Colonel Abdul Salam Arif 1964 - Abdul Rahman Arif stages military coup in Iraq against the Ba'th Party and brings his brother, Abdul Salam Arif, to power 1967 - Six-Day War, Israel occupies the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, West Bank and Gaza Strip 1967 - Kurds revolt in Western Iran, the revolt is crushed 1968 - Ba'athists stage second military coup under General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, Saddam Hussein is made vice president of Iraq 1970 - Gamal Abdel Nasser dies, Anwar Sadat becomes president of Egypt 1971 - The Aswan High Dam is completed with Soviet help in finance and construction; independence of Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE 1973 - Yom Kippur War 1974 - The PLO is allowed to represent the people of Palestine in the UN 1974–1975 - Second Kurdish-Iraqi War 1975–90 - Lebanese Civil War 1976 - Syria invades Lebanon 1978 - Camp David Accords 1979 - Saddam Hussein becomes president of Iraq; Iranian Revolution; Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty 1980–1989 - Iran–Iraq War results in 1–1.25 million casualties, Iraq uses chemical weapons against Iran and rebel Kurds; large scale economical devastation and surge in oil prices affect the global world economy 1981 - Murder of Anwar Sadat 1982 - Israel invades Lebanon 1987–1990 - First Intifada 1991 - The Gulf War 1993 - Oslo Accords 1994 - 1994 civil war in Yemen 2000 - Israeli troops leave Lebanon 2003 - The 2003 Iraq War 2004–present - Shia insurgency in Yemen 2005 - Syrian troops leave Lebanon as a result of the Cedar Revolution 2006 - The 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict; Saddam Hussein executed for "crimes against humanity" 2010–present - Arab Spring, which culminates in the Syrian Civil War with involvement of many regional powers to either support the Syrian opposition or the ruling Ba'ath party See alsoEdit How may Western lives do you want to wipe out before there is a temporary lull in hostilities. ? Do you think it would solve anything? I don't. I won't be fixing my bayonet anytime soon , not just because I'm a fat old bastuurd , but because with age and experience I have learned that you cannot change entrenched beliefs and opinions of hatred towards another. I admire your sympathetic ideals , but it's just another 'flare up' in a list of many. Neither side seems to have much regard for the impact it is having on the other. A well worn path of destruction....The Fuzzy Syndrome. Can you see the point I'm making.....? Indeed it is a troubled area. One of course not helped by the West's involvement - which is where your timeline starts with the demise of the Ottoman Empire and Britain and France carving up the Middle East in their own interests, and continues to this day. But I have no answer to end the conflict other than the belief that all sides need to talk and respect each other. But I don't see that happening, and as mentioned separately, I can only see things deteriorating when ISIS stops its efforts in Iraq and looks West to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 9:52:16 GMT
On "fuzzies" you've used this a few times - but it ain't appropriate. At least as far as I understand the term which originates from a Rudyard Kipling poem praising the Hadendoa people in Sudan for their fighting bravery and skill. Not really appropriate for describing Palestinians. Lastly on "sick twisted fuckers the lot of them" - really? What all Palestinians, Israel's, Arabs? Including the farmers, doctors, women, children... Gross generalisations always look ugly when you look at them closely. Best to avoid. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232443/israel-gaza?page=16#ixzz39ysnUHBBGross generalisations are no where near as ugly as the 6 o'clock news bulletins from the area. If you want to be pedantic , then that's up to you....my comments are based on decades of hostility and fighting in the region. They are also based on conversations with people from the area. Once again you decide to take my comments too literally...no fucking common sense employed whatsoever. I'm not sure if you're attempting to make yourself look clever or what , but it certainly doesn't wash with me. You embrace if you want to......I'll do my best to avoid. I have no intention to emigrate from Fegg Hayes anytime soon , but if I do then I might try Cheshire .... Mumf
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 10, 2014 13:22:04 GMT
On "fuzzies" you've used this a few times - but it ain't appropriate. At least as far as I understand the term which originates from a Rudyard Kipling poem praising the Hadendoa people in Sudan for their fighting bravery and skill. Not really appropriate for describing Palestinians. Lastly on "sick twisted fuckers the lot of them" - really? What all Palestinians, Israel's, Arabs? Including the farmers, doctors, women, children... Gross generalisations always look ugly when you look at them closely. Best to avoid. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232443/israel-gaza?page=16#ixzz39ysnUHBBGross generalisations are no where near as ugly as the 6 o'clock news bulletins from the area. If you want to be pedantic , then that's up to you....my comments are based on decades of hostility and fighting in the region. They are also based on conversations with people from the area. Once again you decide to take my comments too literally...no fucking common sense employed whatsoever. I'm not sure if you're attempting to make yourself look clever or what , but it certainly doesn't wash with me. You embrace if you want to......I'll do my best to avoid. I have no intention to emigrate from Fegg Hayes anytime soon , but if I do then I might try Cheshire .... Mumf I take your comments as written - that is all.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 10, 2014 14:11:44 GMT
One of the arguments I’ve heard from people is: ‘Why don’t you criticise Assad?’ Well, we did. ‘Why don’t you criticise Isis?’ Well we did. ‘Why don’t you criticise Iran?’ We did. ‘Why don’t you criticise Putin?’ We did. ‘Why don’t you criticise Israel?’ Well, we didn’t. That’s the difference. It is about an inconsistent approach to our foreign policy. It is an inconsistency about our application of our values.
Baroness Warsi..speaking on her resignation.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 11, 2014 15:46:46 GMT
If you have any doubt who runs the show, watch war-criminal Netanyahu's speech to the American Congress.
In a 50 minute speech, he got 29 ... yes 29, standing ovations.
Not standing is probably considered a "hate crime" or "anti-semitism."
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 13, 2014 20:25:57 GMT
What has the 9/11 attacks got to do with a UK Film Festival being pulled? And how is this proof that Islam is not peaceful - I see no reference to Islam in the article, and boycotting is a relatively peaceful act isn't it? It seems clear to me why they've refused to host it [which is different to banning it. They only say they don't want to be involved, but aren't stopping it being shown here if another theatre wants to show it]. They don't want to be involved with a festival that is part-funded by a government involved in the conflict, whichever side that comes from. Obviously Hamas don't have a pot to piss in so won't be funding film festivals in the foreseeable future. The point I was trying to make is that (like many comments on this thread) it's a clear example of anti semitism. Heres another www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724181/George-Galloway-investigated-police-declares-Bradford-constituency-Israel-free-zone.htmlJust seems strange that some religions are fair game for the more left wing amongst us.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Aug 13, 2014 23:04:36 GMT
What has the 9/11 attacks got to do with a UK Film Festival being pulled? And how is this proof that Islam is not peaceful - I see no reference to Islam in the article, and boycotting is a relatively peaceful act isn't it? It seems clear to me why they've refused to host it [which is different to banning it. They only say they don't want to be involved, but aren't stopping it being shown here if another theatre wants to show it]. They don't want to be involved with a festival that is part-funded by a government involved in the conflict, whichever side that comes from. Obviously Hamas don't have a pot to piss in so won't be funding film festivals in the foreseeable future. The point I was trying to make is that (like many comments on this thread) it's a clear example of anti semitism. Heres another www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724181/George-Galloway-investigated-police-declares-Bradford-constituency-Israel-free-zone.htmlJust seems strange that some religions are fair game for the more left wing amongst us. The refusal to host the film festival is not anti-semitic. They're not refusing because it's a Jewish festival, it's because it's part-funded by the same organisation that is currently bombing people back to the Stone Age. You can debate the rights and wrongs of either side's actions, but as a protest it seems spot on to me - they're attempting to punish [in a very small way] the people responsible for the actions they disagree with. I don't think there would a different reaction for any other religion - if a similar festival tried boycotting a Saudi arts festival because of the poor human rights record of their government, I don't think any right-minded person would see that as an anti-Muslim action. I think Galloway's comments went too far. If he'd have stopped at having no Israeli services, then it would've made sense as these services indirectly fund the Israeli government. But to single out academics and, even more ludicrously, holidaymakers is a step too far and does invite accusations of racism or xenophobia [I'm still undecided if I'd consider them so]. I would suspect most Israeli holidaymakers have no connection to the government at all, some may even be against their actions, so I don't see what purpose it serves at all.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 14, 2014 6:00:32 GMT
The refusal to host the film festival is not anti-semitic. They're not refusing because it's a Jewish festival, it's because it's part-funded by the same organisation that is currently bombing people back to the Stone Age. You can debate the rights and wrongs of either side's actions, but as a protest it seems spot on to me - they're attempting to punish [in a very small way] the people responsible for the actions they disagree with. I don't think there would a different reaction for any other religion - if a similar festival tried boycotting a Saudi arts festival because of the poor human rights record of their government, I don't think any right-minded person would see that as an anti-Muslim action. I think Galloway's comments went too far. If he'd have stopped at having no Israeli services, then it would've made sense as these services indirectly fund the Israeli government. But to single out academics and, even more ludicrously, holidaymakers is a step too far and does invite accusations of racism or xenophobia [I'm still undecided if I'd consider them so]. I would suspect most Israeli holidaymakers have no connection to the government at all, some may even be against their actions, so I don't see what purpose it serves at all. Think you are spot on. It seems that some folk pick sides on this problem like they are supporting football teams. The reality is that both sides are part of the problem and therefore part if the solution. Supporting one side (like George Galloway for Palestine or Melanie Phillips for Israel) by focussing exclusively on the faults of the opponent and not recognising those "your" side is worse than unhelpful - it propogates the lack of dialogue needed to end the conflict. And let's be clear - bombs and guns will not provide the solution; talking and respect will. Galloway and Phillips - two sides of the same coin.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 14, 2014 8:52:46 GMT
The refusal to host the film festival is not anti-semitic. They're not refusing because it's a Jewish festival, it's because it's part-funded by the same organisation that is currently bombing people back to the Stone Age. You can debate the rights and wrongs of either side's actions, but as a protest it seems spot on to me - they're attempting to punish [in a very small way] the people responsible for the actions they disagree with. I don't think there would a different reaction for any other religion - if a similar festival tried boycotting a Saudi arts festival because of the poor human rights record of their government, I don't think any right-minded person would see that as an anti-Muslim action. I think Galloway's comments went too far. If he'd have stopped at having no Israeli services, then it would've made sense as these services indirectly fund the Israeli government. But to single out academics and, even more ludicrously, holidaymakers is a step too far and does invite accusations of racism or xenophobia [I'm still undecided if I'd consider them so]. I would suspect most Israeli holidaymakers have no connection to the government at all, some may even be against their actions, so I don't see what purpose it serves at all. When was the last time anything was banned due to Saudi influence/finance? You're undecided if Galloways comments were racist/xenophobic? Do you think apartheid was racist/xenophobic? Because this is basically what Galloway proposes for his constituency.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 14, 2014 9:48:33 GMT
Brave IDF sniping children on a roof. A regular occurrence, courtesy of the most dangerous religious, hogwash nationalistic, racist, bigoted belief-system in the world.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Nov 18, 2014 22:24:40 GMT
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 30, 2014 23:07:08 GMT
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Post by boothenboy75 on Dec 31, 2014 11:52:51 GMT
It says in the article mate: "The UK, Lithuania, Nigeria, the Republic of Korea and Rwanda abstained"
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Post by elsidibe on Dec 31, 2014 13:14:24 GMT
What difference does it make? Israel has violated more UN resolutions than any other nation on earth.
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