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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 7, 2014 18:49:39 GMT
There is absolutely nothing that any country on earth can do to sort out the mess that is the middle east. The leaders of Israel and Hamas deserve eash other, if only they could be left to fight it out themselves instead of hiding behind armed forces/terrorists/innocent civilians.
The best chance of peace was thrown away in the early nineties (over 20 years ago!!!!), mainly due to Hamas failing to recognise the Oslo Agreement (something that Yasser Arafat had signed up to). The chances now of an agreement between Israel and Hamas are zero, and it will take at least another generation before there will be any opportunity to move forward.
Anybody trying to blame solely one side needs to remove their blinkers.
RIP to all of the innocent civilians on both sides.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 7, 2014 18:54:10 GMT
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 7, 2014 18:57:10 GMT
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Post by lastoftheldk on Aug 7, 2014 19:12:26 GMT
Should have left Saddam there
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Post by boothenpaddock86 on Aug 8, 2014 0:33:29 GMT
jews come out i mass support of Israel
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 8, 2014 1:55:29 GMT
Not similar. The IRA is/was made up of people within our own borders. OK, so you cannot see comparison there. Care to throw any dismissive comments regarding the Jeremy Bowen article? Also you seemed to have ignored the question put to you by Drunken. Any particular reason? To behonest Kbh, he hasn't a clue.
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Post by Northy on Aug 8, 2014 7:46:26 GMT
The 72 hour ceasefire ends and Hamas launches a rocket towards Israel, I hope the civilians are safe, but looks like more will die in gaza because of it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 7:53:47 GMT
The 72 hour ceasefire ends and Hamas launches a rocket towards Israel, I hope the civilians are safe, but looks like more will die in gaza because of it. The simple answer is that they will die and those who broke the ceasefire are the ones to blame.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 8, 2014 10:29:38 GMT
The 72 hour ceasefire ends and Hamas launches a rocket towards Israel, I hope the civilians are safe, but looks like more will die in gaza because of it. The simple answer is that they will die and those who broke the ceasefire are the ones to blame. Hmmmmm - let's explore that for a moment with a metaphor. You and me are in a pub and have an argument. You throw a punch at me, but miss. I then kill you and your family and and a load of your pals. From your statement it would be you that is to blame.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 10:49:26 GMT
We both know what I'm saying.
If either side had any thought for civilian life then they wouldn't be doing what they are.
If Hamas didn't want to incur the wrath of disproportionate Israeli force then they wouldn't break the ceasefire.
They will never gain full support by doing what they are doing.
This is not condoning any Israeli retaliation.
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Post by Northy on Aug 8, 2014 10:55:28 GMT
The simple answer is that they will die and those who broke the ceasefire are the ones to blame. Hmmmmm - let's explore that for a moment with a metaphor. You and me are in a pub and have an argument. You throw a punch at me, but miss. I then kill you and your family and and a load of your pals. From your statement it would be you that is to blame. That's a bit simplistic though PP, it isn't one rocket it's many, over 30 so far and Israel warned Hamas what they would do if they continued, they would retaliate on Hamas targets, trouble is the city is too tightly packed and Hamas are in civilian areas. I'm not on any side but the worst thing that could have happened today was for Hamas to start firing rockets, there has been some sort of dialogue, let that continue between both sides and try and narrow the gap, both sides need to man up and take some concessions.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 8, 2014 10:58:10 GMT
We both know what I'm saying. If either side had any thought for civilian life then they wouldn't be doing what they are. If Hamas didn't want to incur the wrath of disproportionate Israeli force then they wouldn't break the ceasefire. They will never gain full support by doing what they are doing. This is not condoning any Israeli retaliation. Yes - but it helps to write what you mean to say! Because we are in agreement - for the most part at least I'm sure! Hamas are responsible for breaking the cease fire. They do it understanding what the possible consequences are. Israel are responsible for how they respond to Hamas breaking the cease fire. Including who gets killed from their attacks - if indeed they choose to respond with force. They have it in their capacity to respond differently.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Aug 8, 2014 11:42:40 GMT
What has the 9/11 attacks got to do with a UK Film Festival being pulled? And how is this proof that Islam is not peaceful - I see no reference to Islam in the article, and boycotting is a relatively peaceful act isn't it? It seems clear to me why they've refused to host it [which is different to banning it. They only say they don't want to be involved, but aren't stopping it being shown here if another theatre wants to show it]. They don't want to be involved with a festival that is part-funded by a government involved in the conflict, whichever side that comes from. Obviously Hamas don't have a pot to piss in so won't be funding film festivals in the foreseeable future.
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Post by heavysoul on Aug 8, 2014 12:01:35 GMT
Read that while Israeli were in Gaza not only did they leave racist graffiti they defocated on the floors of families homes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 12:12:13 GMT
Read that while Israeli were in Gaza not only did they leave racist graffiti they defocated on the floors of families homes. War doesn't tend to be pleasant on the whole. I've seen the same in some houses I've visited . Id be more surprised if they hadn't shit in the houses to be honest.
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 8, 2014 12:14:55 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 8, 2014 14:34:43 GMT
Hmmmmm - let's explore that for a moment with a metaphor. You and me are in a pub and have an argument. You throw a punch at me, but miss. I then kill you and your family and and a load of your pals. From your statement it would be you that is to blame. That's a bit simplistic though PP, it isn't one rocket it's many, over 30 so far and Israel warned Hamas what they would do if they continued, they would retaliate on Hamas targets, trouble is the city is too tightly packed and Hamas are in civilian areas. I'm not on any side but the worst thing that could have happened today was for Hamas to start firing rockets, there has been some sort of dialogue, let that continue between both sides and try and narrow the gap, both sides need to man up and take some concessions. Agreed - it was a simplistic response to a simplistic (and incorrect) statement. But the argument does have some merit - simple though it undoubtedly is!
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Post by serpico on Aug 8, 2014 15:50:22 GMT
why are some posters on this thread saying "hamas needs to stop firing rockets" when surely you must first say "Israel needs to end it's occupation, it's blockade, it's land grabs, it's routine shelling" why do people start with Hamas rocket fire!?!? the rocket fire is a DIRECT reaction to Israels policy towards Palestine, I don't understand what the pro israel posters, and people pretending to be "balanced" posters, can't see here!.
If israel stops it's illegitimate policies towards Palestine the rocket fire stops! the rocket fire is an effect, a symptom and not the cause of this conflict.
You can be pro Israel if you like, but don't lie about the reasons for the rocket fire, Hamas aren't just firing rockets into Israel without a motive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 16:18:02 GMT
why are some posters on this thread saying "hamas needs to stop firing rockets" when surely you must first say "Israel needs to end it's occupation, it's blockade, it's land grabs, it's routine shelling" why do people start with Hamas rocket fire!?!? the rocket fire is a DIRECT reaction to Israels policy towards Palestine, I don't understand what the pro israel posters, and people pretending to be "balanced" posters, can't see here!. If israel stops it's illegitimate policies towards Palestine the rocket fire stops! the rocket fire is an effect, a symptom and not the cause of this conflict. You can be pro Israel if you like, but don't lie about the reasons for the rocket fire, Hamas aren't just firing rockets into Israel without a motive. I don't think it's a question of people being pro-Israeli or otherwise , It may be that Hamas feels that it has a motive and a justification for firing rockets into Israeli territory, surely that is not the most important issue here ? The issue is that innocent people are being killed because of their " justifiable motive " .....they know full well that Israel will retaliate massively to any attack , and this will result in the death of innocents .....yet still they continue to fire their rockets.....this is in no way an excuse or an apology for the actions of the Israelis , which is over the top .....but it always will be, the rocket fire may well be a symptom and not the cause of the conflict, but it's still the major factor in the prolonging of hostilities .....they need to stop .....Negotiations are the only answer to this ( if anything is ) , no matter how many times the talking breaks down , keep trying in preference to firing rockets , no matter how justified you feel ......your justifications are the catalyst for more Palestinian deaths
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 18:02:05 GMT
why are some posters on this thread saying "hamas needs to stop firing rockets" when surely you must first say "Israel needs to end it's occupation, it's blockade, it's land grabs, it's routine shelling" why do people start with Hamas rocket fire!?!? the rocket fire is a DIRECT reaction to Israels policy towards Palestine, I don't understand what the pro israel posters, and people pretending to be "balanced" posters, can't see here!. If israel stops it's illegitimate policies towards Palestine the rocket fire stops! the rocket fire is an effect, a symptom and not the cause of this conflict. You can be pro Israel if you like, but don't lie about the reasons for the rocket fire, Hamas aren't just firing rockets into Israel without a motive. I don't think it's a question of people being pro-Israeli or otherwise , It may be that Hamas feels that it has a motive and a justification for firing rockets into Israeli territory, surely that is not the most important issue here ? The issue is that innocent people are being killed because of their " justifiable motive " .....they know full well that Israel will retaliate massively to any attack , and this will result in the death of innocents .....yet still they continue to fire their rockets.....this is in no way an excuse or an apology for the actions of the Israelis , which is over the top .....but it always will be, the rocket fire may well be a symptom and not the cause of the conflict, but it's still the major factor in the prolonging of hostilities .....they need to stop .....Negotiations are the only answer to this ( if anything is ) , no matter how many times the talking breaks down , keep trying in preference to firing rockets , no matter how justified you feel ......your justifications are the catalyst for more Palestinian deaths I couldn't have put it better myself , even though I've tried half a dozen times. If saving life was your main priority then both sides need to observe a ceasefire and sit down to negotiate. There are idiots on here who rather turn this thread into a personal slanging match or character assassination exercise on anyone who disagrees with them. The fact that they themselves are so one sided in their argument is somehow ignored. Personally , I am on neither side . The past has gone , it's the future that matters now. Breaking ceasefires only adds to the problem regardless of who it is.
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Post by serpico on Aug 8, 2014 18:20:09 GMT
why are some posters on this thread saying "hamas needs to stop firing rockets" when surely you must first say "Israel needs to end it's occupation, it's blockade, it's land grabs, it's routine shelling" why do people start with Hamas rocket fire!?!? the rocket fire is a DIRECT reaction to Israels policy towards Palestine, I don't understand what the pro israel posters, and people pretending to be "balanced" posters, can't see here!. If israel stops it's illegitimate policies towards Palestine the rocket fire stops! the rocket fire is an effect, a symptom and not the cause of this conflict. You can be pro Israel if you like, but don't lie about the reasons for the rocket fire, Hamas aren't just firing rockets into Israel without a motive. I don't think it's a question of people being pro-Israeli or otherwise , It may be that Hamas feels that it has a motive and a justification for firing rockets into Israeli territory, surely that is not the most important issue here ? The issue is that innocent people are being killed because of their " justifiable motive " .....they know full well that Israel will retaliate massively to any attack , and this will result in the death of innocents .....yet still they continue to fire their rockets.....this is in no way an excuse or an apology for the actions of the Israelis , which is over the top .....but it always will be, the rocket fire may well be a symptom and not the cause of the conflict, but it's still the major factor in the prolonging of hostilities .....they need to stop .....Negotiations are the only answer to this ( if anything is ) , no matter how many times the talking breaks down , keep trying in preference to firing rockets , no matter how justified you feel ......your justifications are the catalyst for more Palestinian deaths I don't agree with the rocket fire, it's a bad tactic, but under the conditions they live under it's hardly surprising they're getting desperate, we're getting pretty close to midnight, soon there will not be a Palestine, they're a desperate people, can you honestly say you wouldn't want to seek retribution under the same conditions ? conditions where a foreign power controls every aspect of your life right down to how many calories you consume, rocket fire or no rocket fire Israel will still carry on with it's brutal decades old policies. All the "negotiations" down the years have just been a sham designed to stall for time whilst Israel carries on with impunity knowing the US has it's back at the UN, without the backing of the US it couldn't possibly do what it has been doing, that is why the Israel lobby spends hundreds of millions lobbying US politicians.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 18:41:22 GMT
I wouldn't point a gun at someone if I knew I was going to die as a result .....no matter how fucking angry I was.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 19:29:44 GMT
The simple answer is that they will die and those who broke the ceasefire are the ones to blame. Hmmmmm - let's explore that for a moment with a metaphor. You and me are in a pub and have an argument. You throw a punch at me, but miss. I then kill you and your family and and a load of your pals. From your statement it would be you that is to blame. They were firing a weapon and missed not throwing a punch
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 8, 2014 20:46:03 GMT
Hmmmmm - let's explore that for a moment with a metaphor. You and me are in a pub and have an argument. You throw a punch at me, but miss. I then kill you and your family and and a load of your pals. From your statement it would be you that is to blame. They were firing a weapon and missed not throwing a punch I know It's not the best analogy - so doesn't bear a brief, never mind a forensic analysis, but you get the point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 20:50:21 GMT
They were firing a weapon and missed not throwing a punch I know It's not the best analogy - so doesn't bear a brief, never mind a forensic analysis, but you get the point. Yeh, your analogy is miles wide
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 8, 2014 21:00:57 GMT
I know It's not the best analogy - so doesn't bear a brief, never mind a forensic analysis, but you get the point. Yeh, your analogy is miles wide Clearly you don't get the point!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 21:07:29 GMT
I don't think it's a question of people being pro-Israeli or otherwise , It may be that Hamas feels that it has a motive and a justification for firing rockets into Israeli territory, surely that is not the most important issue here ? The issue is that innocent people are being killed because of their " justifiable motive " .....they know full well that Israel will retaliate massively to any attack , and this will result in the death of innocents .....yet still they continue to fire their rockets.....this is in no way an excuse or an apology for the actions of the Israelis , which is over the top .....but it always will be, the rocket fire may well be a symptom and not the cause of the conflict, but it's still the major factor in the prolonging of hostilities .....they need to stop .....Negotiations are the only answer to this ( if anything is ) , no matter how many times the talking breaks down , keep trying in preference to firing rockets , no matter how justified you feel ......your justifications are the catalyst for more Palestinian deaths I don't agree with the rocket fire, it's a bad tactic, but under the conditions they live under it's hardly surprising they're getting desperate, we're getting pretty close to midnight, soon there will not be a Palestine, they're a desperate people, can you honestly say you wouldn't want to seek retribution under the same conditions ? conditions where a foreign power controls every aspect of your life right down to how many calories you consume, rocket fire or no rocket fire Israel will still carry on with it's brutal decades old policies. All the "negotiations" down the years have just been a sham designed to stall for time whilst Israel carries on with impunity knowing the US has it's back at the UN, without the backing of the US it couldn't possibly do what it has been doing, that is why the Israel lobby spends hundreds of millions lobbying US politicians. I understand your point , I can understand how they feel and how desperate they are ......it is a natural human emotion to want to exact retribution for being wronged , but in this instance, the retribution however much they feel justified in meeting it out , is insignificant to the Israelis in terms of loss of life and collateral damage .....it is being far more effective in raining down death and destruction on their own people than anything else ....you have to wonder why they can't see this ? Surely ( for the time being at least ) it would be more sensible to adhere to cease fires and bring a peaceful end to this affair , although I admit this will be far from easy , both will need to make concessions , perhaps easier said than done with the Israelis being the power that they are
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Post by boothenpaddock86 on Aug 8, 2014 23:17:47 GMT
Hmmmmm - let's explore that for a moment with a metaphor. You and me are in a pub and have an argument. You throw a punch at me, but miss. I then kill you and your family and and a load of your pals. From your statement it would be you that is to blame. They were firing a weapon and missed not throwing a punch yes your right mate probably got more chance of being killed from a punch than it is 1 of these fireworks
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 6:52:56 GMT
They were firing a weapon and missed not throwing a punch yes your right mate probably got more chance of being killed from a punch than it is 1 of these fireworks But would you feel the same way if they were fired at you and your family? Would you still laugh it off? Easy to say when you're almost half a world away
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 9, 2014 8:54:44 GMT
They were firing a weapon and missed not throwing a punch yes your right mate probably got more chance of being killed from a punch than it is 1 of these fireworks Another misconception. The rockets are anything but 'fireworks'. Many are extremely capable older generation rockets from states like Russia/China. The reason they're not effective is Israel's Iron Dome missile interception system and their relative inaccuracy. There would be thousands of casualties otherwise. They're the very definition of indiscriminate killing.
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