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Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 16, 2014 14:18:26 GMT
Baines is toss. Jagielka is toss. Cahill's marking for the second goal was toss. Our ability to properly defend the first goal was toss. Our second half performance was toss. Our second half crossing was toss. Our planning with formation, personnel and tactics were toss. Hodgson was toss. First half was ok. Merk, I don't want to worry you but I find myself in pretty much total agreement with you! Me too!
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Post by mcf on Jun 16, 2014 14:30:37 GMT
fucking hell...i forgot about the physio. a physio getting fucking injured celebrating on the bench...what a bunch of cunts he made us look
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 20:30:41 GMT
i'm finding it hard to criticise Baines myself.....spent half of the first half screaming at Rooney to get into position (which rooney seemingly ignored) and as a result spent most of the time with 2 players running at him as Italy exploited that flank. not easy at all for a FB to perform well when he has no cover or protection form his midfielder in front of him and when, despite trying to sort out rooney going constantly missing himself, his captain allows players to drift in behind him at will and does the square root of fuck all when his "Left winger" (ahem) also disappears constantly. as soon as Lallana came on, Baines instantly started getting far further forward than he had at any point beforehand (where his main asset lies) and had far more protection at the back as well. it was the insistence and obsession with HAVING to play Rooney that screwed it up for me. completely agree with all of the pundits. either play Rooney where he's best or not at all. shoehorning him into other positions has too much of a knockon negative impact on the rest of the team. having said that, i'm interested today that all of the media have come out talking about Rooney can't expect to play just because of his name and should he be dropped because of form for Thursday yet no-one has hauled Gerrard over the coals despite being completely anonymous on saturday and poor for years in an england shirt! play someone in front of Baines that Baines is comfortable with and has faith in when it comes to covering and protecting and i think he'll do far far better. if you want to play attacking fullbacks then the manager has to accept and deal with the fact that he'll need cover and the player brought in needs to accept that he'll have to get back and help out as and when needed; Hodgson and Rooney both seemed to completely ignore that part unfortunately. Baines is toss. Jagielka is toss. Cahill's marking for the second goal was toss. Our ability to properly defend the first goal was toss. Our second half performance was toss. Our second half crossing was toss. Our planning with formation, personnel and tactics were toss. Hodgson was toss. First half was a little less toss. Ammended.
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Post by bignickhowes on Jun 16, 2014 21:20:06 GMT
Wait until Costa Rica put e'm on the backfoot. very positive, who is your idea of a good english cb? let me guess...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 21:23:42 GMT
Wait until Costa Rica put e'm on the backfoot. very positive, who is your idea of a good english cb? let me guess... It would be nice see someone have a go at attacking a ball instead of being a big softie by lifting a leg over the ball. Put ya bodies on the line, pussies.
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Post by bignickhowes on Jun 16, 2014 21:30:26 GMT
very positive, who is your idea of a good english cb? let me guess... It would be nice see someone have a go at attacking a ball instead of being a big softie by lifting a leg over the ball. Put ya bodies on the line, pussies. could do with pairing cahill with terry
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 21:32:49 GMT
It would be nice see someone have a go at attacking a ball instead of being a big softie by lifting a leg over the ball. Put ya bodies on the line, pussies. could do with pairing cahill with terry Nah fuck that. Tazi would pair Shawcross with Shawcross.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 21:40:52 GMT
It would be nice see someone have a go at attacking a ball instead of being a big softie by lifting a leg over the ball. Put ya bodies on the line, pussies. could do with pairing cahill with terry I couldn't care less who plays as long as they're prepared die for the cause, unfortunately that's not the case and hasn't been for a long long time. One could read the script the way the result would go against the Italians because it's been read time and time again previously. And Cahill is fcuking garbage.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 21:42:22 GMT
could do with pairing cahill with terry Nah fuck that. Tazi would pair Shawcross with Shawcross. Shawcross would relish that more than any of those other pussies.
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Post by geoff321 on Jun 17, 2014 11:50:59 GMT
Alex Ferguson was appointed Manchester United manager in 1986 and has won the following honours:
13 PL Titles 5 FA Cups 4 League Cups 2 Champion League Titles. 1 UEFA Cup Winners Cup 1 UEFA Super Cup 1 International Cup 1 FIFA Cup
These honours were won with a good percentage of English players.
During the same period England have had the following managers:
Robson Taylor Venables Hoddle Wilkinson Keegan Taylor Eriksson McClaren Capello Pearce Hodgson
England have won nothing.
The English F.A. have the perfect model in Manchester United in front of their very eyes, an English Club, with many English players, playing a basically attacking game with wingers, winning trophies at home and abroad.
Wouldn't you think they could have tried to learn the lessons of the United formula, instead of believing that you just sack the manager and then everything might work out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 12:08:57 GMT
Which was what, Geoff, out of interest?
Brilliant manager though Fergie was, more often than not the top sides in Europe got the best of Manchester Utd towards the business end of the competition.
They were largely unrivalled in England but the competition in Europe was much more intense and their success therefore more limited. Isn't it pretty much the same for England? They're good enough to get so far but not good enough to consistently compete with the very best?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 12:18:20 GMT
Which was what, Geoff, out of interest? Brilliant manager though Fergie was, more often than not the top sides in Europe got the best of Manchester Utd towards the business end of the competition. They were largely unrivalled in England but the competition in Europe was much more intense and their success therefore more limited. Isn't it pretty much the same for England? They're good enough to get so far but not good enough to consistently compete with the very best? do you realise how long it took him to google all that Rob? and now you go and piss on his bonfire with common sense...shame on you!
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Post by geoff321 on Jun 17, 2014 12:22:54 GMT
Some truth in what you say rob, United though won two Champions League titles, England have never even made the final of the European competition.
You could only learn the lessons from the United success from an in depth look at the way the club was run under Ferguson, but one immediate observation is that sacking so many managers is not that clever.
The other areas that I would want to gain insight into would be the Ferguson style of management, why he could get English players looking the best in the world, like Scholes for instance.
Another interesting point is that Wenger has always had Arsenal playing great football, virtually with an all foreign team, they have never won the Champions League.
It's easy rob to dismiss United and Ferguson and say there is little to learn from their success, but every policy the F.A. has followed since 1966, has basically failed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 12:29:24 GMT
Some truth in what you say rob, United though won two Champions League titles, England have never even made the final of the European competition. You could only learn the lessons from the United success from an in depth look at the way the club was run under Ferguson, but one immediate observation is that sacking so many managers is not that clever. The other areas that I would want to gain insight into would be the Ferguson style of management, why he could get English players looking the best in the world, like Scholes for instance. Another interesting point is that Wenger has always had Arsenal playing great football, virtually with an all foreign team, they have never won the Champions League. It's easy rob to dismiss United and Ferguson and say there is little to learn from their success, but every policy the F.A. has followed since 1966, has basically failed. I think only three of the managers on that list were sacked though Geoff - Taylor, McClaren and Hoddle, the latter being for non-football reasons. I think even the most patient and benign England fan would argue that Taylor or McClaren deserved to remain in post, especially since both failed to qualify for major tournaments - the only permanent England managers of the last 35 years to do so. I'd also add that while Fergie's dedication to developing English youngsters is thoroughly commendable, take the non-English lads out of both of those European Cup winning sides and you weaken them significantly - they were of crucial importance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 12:30:46 GMT
Some truth in what you say rob, United though won two Champions League titles, England have never even made the final of the European competition. You could only learn the lessons from the United success from an in depth look at the way the club was run under Ferguson, but one immediate observation is that sacking so many managers is not that clever. The other areas that I would want to gain insight into would be the Ferguson style of management, why he could get English players looking the best in the world, like Scholes for instance. Another interesting point is that Wenger has always had Arsenal playing great football, virtually with an all foreign team, they have never won the Champions League. It's easy rob to dismiss United and Ferguson and say there is little to learn from their success, but every policy the F.A. has followed since 1966, has basically failed. you can only really look at the 2007-08 Champions league there geoff (the 99 team only had 3 englishmen in the team). you have to remember that Fergie had those players at his disposal on a daily basis, training together and gelling together day in day out and working on their setups over a 38 game season (and cup matches on top of that). it's not as if Fergie had some special formula, he was just an exceptionally good club manager who had the best players (international ones also who helped fix the side together) at his disposal. to liken a club manager's position to that of an international manager just isn't do-able...the only international side that have been able to have that kind of routine with the players knowing each other so well is Spain who basically picked all their squad from just 2 clubs over the last few years and played a similar style to those 2 clubs. managing a domestic team and an international team and entirely different things and nothing alike
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Post by geoff321 on Jun 17, 2014 12:40:05 GMT
Whatever the truth is mick, the F.A. have not delivered a successful England team, by the way the Dutch the other night looked like a side that had played together for years, their manager like Ferguson has a reputation for being ruthless, perhaps there is a small clue there.
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Post by kristoff on Jun 17, 2014 12:45:02 GMT
Whatever the truth is mick, the F.A. have not delivered a successful England team, by the way the Dutch the other night looked like a side that had played together for years, their manager like Ferguson has a reputation for being ruthless, perhaps there is a small clue there. and knowing the dutch they could very well get beaten by a shit die their next game out. That game was all out revenge for the last final
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 13:12:55 GMT
Whatever the truth is mick, the F.A. have not delivered a successful England team, by the way the Dutch the other night looked like a side that had played together for years, their manager like Ferguson has a reputation for being ruthless, perhaps there is a small clue there. the Dutch also have as many players that played in the 2010 tournament as those that didn't so have a good combined experience plus a world renowned manager who has won major trophies at virtually every club he's been at. so which one is it? do we pick a selection of the old guard fro the experience whilst ignoring the youngsters? do we have a balance of both (despite much of the old guard we'd be picking then just not being good enough anymore or having already retired from international football?) do we pick one manager and stick with it for years (as per your Fergie solution) or go for someone who's never managed an international side at a major tournament before and is leaving straight after his first one? you seem to be confusing and contradicting yourself here mate. if it was all as simple as you're implying it to be then i'm sure we'd have bagfuls of silverware already!
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Post by kristoff on Jun 17, 2014 13:17:59 GMT
Whatever the truth is mick, the F.A. have not delivered a successful England team, by the way the Dutch the other night looked like a side that had played together for years, their manager like Ferguson has a reputation for being ruthless, perhaps there is a small clue there. the Dutch also have as many players that played in the 2010 tournament as those that didn't so have a good combined experience plus a world renowned manager who has won major trophies at virtually every club he's been at. so which one is it? do we pick a selection of the old guard fro the experience whilst ignoring the youngsters? do we have a balance of both (despite much of the old guard we'd be picking then just not being good enough anymore or having already retired from international football?) do we pick one manager and stick with it for years (as per your Fergie solution) or go for someone who's never managed an international side at a major tournament before and is leaving straight after his first one? you seem to be confusing and contradicting yourself here mate. if it was all as simple as you're implying it to be then i'm sure we'd have bagfuls of silverware already! You forgot to mention mick that we'd be doing all this whilst the other countries were doing the same
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 17, 2014 13:59:49 GMT
Alex Ferguson was appointed Manchester United manager in 1986 and has won the following honours: 13 PL Titles 5 FA Cups 4 League Cups 2 Champion League Titles. 1 UEFA Cup Winners Cup 1 UEFA Super Cup 1 International Cup 1 FIFA Cup These honours were won with a good percentage of English players. During the same period England have had the following managers: Robson Taylor Venables Hoddle Wilkinson Keegan Taylor Eriksson McClaren Capello Pearce Hodgson England have won nothing. The English F.A. have the perfect model in Manchester United in front of their very eyes, an English Club, with many English players, playing a basically attacking game with wingers, winning trophies at home and abroad. Wouldn't you think they could have tried to learn the lessons of the United formula, instead of believing that you just sack the manager and then everything might work out. I've just worked it out! Capello has the best record(66.7%) of all them and no one could understand what he was saying and I struggle to understand Ferguson. We need a manager no one understands and let the players play football!
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