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Post by bloodtypered on Sept 22, 2024 17:50:11 GMT
6 from me (considering it was his first game in charge). First half good.. but you don't defend 1-0 lead for 50 minutes in Champo, like he said in his interview. You just try to score another. Very naive approach, we are not Spain, we leaked and will leak goals with our defence. But 6 for the first half.  |
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 22, 2024 19:19:26 GMT
I still think being a good coach and manager are completely different things. I'm half wondering whether Walters thinks he's actually the manager 🤔 🙄 He's almost acting like one. Feels like he's the manager and NP first team coach. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 22, 2024 22:03:40 GMT
Did he just walk off down the tunnel at full time. I don’t recall seeing him on the pitch at the end
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Post by potterpaul on Sept 23, 2024 4:51:48 GMT
I think I've been pretty patient so far but enough is enough.
What this team/new coach requires is for March to state his feelings.
His Tick of approval and we can write him off early and discuss other options.
His scathing disgust at the appointment and we can look forward to bright few months at the very least.
Come on March it's your only job on this board.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 23, 2024 7:06:55 GMT
I'm half wondering whether Walters thinks he's actually the manager 🤔 🙄 He's almost acting like one. Feels like he's the manager and NP first team coach. Pelach is the Head Coach - he is not the manager. In fact we do not have a manager - pretty much all the responsibilities of the manager bar coaching and picking the team have been absorbed into the Sporting Director role, including recruitment strategy. Walters is not over stepping the mark - he is doing the job a Director of Football/Sporting Director is supposed to do. It is John Coates who made the decision to ditch the manager role and go for a SD/HC structure. In terms of expectations if Schumacher saw himself more of a manager than a Head Coach Pelach may well be a better fit than Schumacher and less likely to come into conflict with the Sporting Director. |
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Post by s7oke on Sept 23, 2024 7:23:25 GMT
If Schumacher was in charge for that performance I’d give it a 3 tops. Too late to respond to Junior being hammered by Millar. Wanted us to carry on passing from the back when they switched the formation and allowed their press to get on top of us. Subs were too late and I’m not convinced they were the right ones. But I’m not going to give him a rating because he’s only been here a few days. It would have been one of Schumachers better games then 😂😂 |
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Post by s7oke on Sept 23, 2024 7:27:21 GMT
He's almost acting like one. Feels like he's the manager and NP first team coach. Pelach is the Head Coach - he is not the manager. In fact we do not have a manager - pretty much all the responsibilities of the manager bar coaching and picking the team have been absorbed into the Sporting Director role, including recruitment strategy. Walters is not over stepping the mark - he is doing the job a Director of Football/Sporting Director is supposed to do. It is John Coates who made the decision to ditch the manager role and go for a SD/HC structure. In terms of expectations if Schumacher saw himself more of a manager than a Head Coach Pelach may well be a better fit than Schumacher and less likely to come into conflict with the Sporting Director. I get where John Coates is coming from Just look what happened when he gave Rowett the open check book to buy what he liked |
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Post by ceejays on Sept 23, 2024 7:28:52 GMT
Pass it out from the back dick around passing from side to side then hoof it to cannon who won one header all night . When Gallagher rocks up you can bet we will be even more direct . Thank the Lord . Happy medium with most things
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 23, 2024 7:30:09 GMT
Arnie Slot asked about why he is called head coach and not manager.
" I don't think there is much difference between a head coach and manager, it's just that as a head coach I can can go in fully to the things I would like to do."
It seems to me at most PL clubs the head coach is in effect the team manager with some duties removed from him to allow him to concentrate on the on field issues.
If JW wants to do it differently then it's going to get interesting.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 23, 2024 9:02:04 GMT
Anyone who thinks Jordan Thompson should start gets a 0 from me So, that's most games for the past 3 seasons where managers would get a 0 then? What a load of bollocks. He was pretty crap on Friday. It probably is too early to rate him, but being perfectly honest, the second half was about as concerning as it could have been. Conceding 3 at home (however unfortunate) to a piss poor Hull team is not a good foundation to work from. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 23, 2024 9:34:36 GMT
Arnie Slot asked about why he is called head coach and not manager. " I don't think there is much difference between a head coach and manager, it's just that as a head coach I can can go in fully to the things I would like to do." It seems to me at most PL clubs the head coach is in effect the team manager with some duties removed from him to allow him to concentrate on the on field issues. If JW wants to do it differently then it's going to get interesting. In what way is Walters doing it differently? |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 23, 2024 9:41:30 GMT
Pelach is the Head Coach - he is not the manager. In fact we do not have a manager - pretty much all the responsibilities of the manager bar coaching and picking the team have been absorbed into the Sporting Director role, including recruitment strategy. Walters is not over stepping the mark - he is doing the job a Director of Football/Sporting Director is supposed to do. It is John Coates who made the decision to ditch the manager role and go for a SD/HC structure. In terms of expectations if Schumacher saw himself more of a manager than a Head Coach Pelach may well be a better fit than Schumacher and less likely to come into conflict with the Sporting Director. I get where John Coates is coming from Just look what happened when he gave Rowett the open check book to buy what he liked It's not just Rowett - every manager apart from MoN struggled with the role because it was just two big. Neil came here because the the job was an old school manager job but even he appointed a DoF to take some of the strain. I get why Coates decided to move to the DoF/HHC model. What I find weird is the number of people who still think we have employed a manager and Walters is overstepping the mark as Sporting Director when in fact he's just doing his job. |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 23, 2024 9:56:58 GMT
Arnie Slot asked about why he is called head coach and not manager. " I don't think there is much difference between a head coach and manager, it's just that as a head coach I can can go in fully to the things I would like to do." It seems to me at most PL clubs the head coach is in effect the team manager with some duties removed from him to allow him to concentrate on the on field issues. If JW wants to do it differently then it's going to get interesting. In what way is Walters doing it differently? Well I did say if. But for starters it's being said that JW sacked SS and appointed NP, IF that's true that sort of decision should not be made by the Sporting Director. I doubt Arnie Slott was appointed by Richard Hughes. Secondly we don't want the SD in our faces but more working behind the scenes in support of NP. We also need NP to have real input in which players are brought into the club, hopefully he will. If JW and SS did have issues then we don't want that to happen again, do we? Finally I don't think JW saying things like I won't be satisfied until the club is is competing in the PL helps a guy who has just been appointed head coach. |
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Post by Los Alfareros on Sept 23, 2024 10:40:42 GMT
His antics on the line reminded me of a labrador puppy at a kid's party just going wild and doing little wee's on the carpet.
However, I have to stay positive and just pray that he can turn us around.
As a wise man once said, only time will tell.
WBWY
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Post by monsoonmoon on Sept 23, 2024 11:02:08 GMT
I’m not in the camp of the first half being good, I thought it was overly reliant on giving the ball to a good player and hoping they could do something magic, rather than a structure to get everyone playing. In any case, Cannon occupied some decent positions on the break but Manhoef rarely got his head up.
We switched from short to direct approach play seemingly arbitrarily. Pretty much flies in the face of the talk of “identity”. Playing the way we did I think would actually suit Gallagher.
Asking Gibson to go and try and nick the ball up high was a disaster waiting to happen. Hopefully he got a kick up the arse too about that forearm on Zambrano.
Playing the two in midfield meant we didn’t get any help for the full-backs, particularly when Junior was 2v1 for most of the first half. Burger and Thompson spent most of the game on the toes of Gibson and Wilmot - leaving a big bastard of a gap in the centre of the pitch to navigate the ball through to Cannon, Junho, Manhoef and Koumas
The reaction to Millar should’ve happened after 5 minutes, we had the warnings with his first two times of the ball. Because the defence were, presumably, asked to be narrow out of possession he got time to take it and get his head up. It’s going to be difficult for Junior to defend someone in full flow rather than on their touch.
Some barbaric individual errors can’t be accounted for by the coach, but they can be mitigated by asking players to play to their limitations.
Putting Tezgel on the right while keeping Manhoef through to middle was proper howl at the moon stuff.
Hopefully that’ll bring into stark focus for Pelach what he’s dealing with. If we play a 4231 / 442 / 4411 with a narrow back-four again, we need to involve the wingers a bit more defensively, particularly on the right.
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Post by thehoof on Sept 23, 2024 11:35:03 GMT
I wonder how many on here were part of the “mob” singing “you don’t know what you’re doing” to Tony Pulis during a 4-2 defeat at Walsall; give Pelach some time before hanging him.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2024 11:40:41 GMT
I get where John Coates is coming from Just look what happened when he gave Rowett the open check book to buy what he liked It's not just Rowett - every manager apart from MoN struggled with the role because it was just two big. Neil came here because the the job was an old school manager job but even he appointed a DoF to take some of the strain. I get why Coates decided to move to the DoF/HHC model. What I find weird is the number of people who still think we have employed a manager and Walters is overstepping the mark as Sporting Director when in fact he's just doing his job. Are we pretending MON did a good job now, he wasn't much better than the rest, his only real positive was doing well in keeping us up, everything else was pretty similar, he also seems to get credit for other people's job which is strange. |
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Post by Linx on Sept 23, 2024 11:43:41 GMT
I’m not in the camp of the first half being good, I thought it was overly reliant on giving the ball to a good player and hoping they could do something magic, rather than a structure to get everyone playing. In any case, Cannon occupied some decent positions on the break but Manhoef rarely got his head up. We switched from short to direct approach play seemingly arbitrarily. Pretty much flies in the face of the talk of “identity”. Playing the way we did I think would actually suit Gallagher. Asking Gibson to go and try and nick the ball up high was a disaster waiting to happen. Hopefully he got a kick up the arse too about that forearm on Zambrano. Playing the two in midfield meant we didn’t get any help for the full-backs, particularly when Junior was 2v1 for most of the first half. Burger and Thompson spent most of the game on the toes of Gibson and Wilmot - leaving a big bastard of a gap in the centre of the pitch to navigate the ball through to Cannon, Junho, Manhoef and Koumas The reaction to Millar should’ve happened after 5 minutes, we had the warnings with his first two times of the ball. Because the defence were, presumably, asked to be narrow out of possession he got time to take it and get his head up. It’s going to be difficult for Junior to defend someone in full flow rather than on their touch. Some barbaric individual errors can’t be accounted for by the coach, but they can be mitigated by asking players to play to their limitations. Putting Tezgel on the right while keeping Manhoef through to middle was proper howl at the moon stuff. Hopefully that’ll bring into stark focus for Pelach what he’s dealing with. If we play a 4231 / 442 / 4411 with a narrow back-four again, we need to involve the wingers a bit more defensively, particularly on the right. Second half I couldn’t work out whether it was a desperate strategy of throwing random players into the mix and hoping something would work, or an admission that the game was lost and he wanted to see as many of the players as he could performing in a competitive environment. If it’s the latter, it points to a cool-headed reader of the game; If it’s the former, we’re in Mad Nath territory. |
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Post by silverdollar on Sept 23, 2024 12:17:55 GMT
When all is said and done this site is a medium by which "supporters" can voice their opinions and get into arguments but what goes on down at Clayton Wood and at the 365 is totally confidential. We are only "fans" with comparitably limited knowledge, coaching ability or knowledge of each individual player in the squad. For whatever reasons, the owners and John Walters have sacked Schumacher and given a three year contract to Pelach! I feel sorry for Schumacher and Pelach. For me Schumacher was doing a good job and Pelach is bearing the pressure of everyone's expectations as well as the desperate need for success. Us fans can only move ahead with hope!
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Post by mcw on Sept 23, 2024 14:04:13 GMT
I’m not in the camp of the first half being good, I thought it was overly reliant on giving the ball to a good player and hoping they could do something magic, rather than a structure to get everyone playing. In any case, Cannon occupied some decent positions on the break but Manhoef rarely got his head up. We switched from short to direct approach play seemingly arbitrarily. Pretty much flies in the face of the talk of “identity”. Playing the way we did I think would actually suit Gallagher. Asking Gibson to go and try and nick the ball up high was a disaster waiting to happen. Hopefully he got a kick up the arse too about that forearm on Zambrano. Playing the two in midfield meant we didn’t get any help for the full-backs, particularly when Junior was 2v1 for most of the first half. Burger and Thompson spent most of the game on the toes of Gibson and Wilmot - leaving a big bastard of a gap in the centre of the pitch to navigate the ball through to Cannon, Junho, Manhoef and Koumas The reaction to Millar should’ve happened after 5 minutes, we had the warnings with his first two times of the ball. Because the defence were, presumably, asked to be narrow out of possession he got time to take it and get his head up. It’s going to be difficult for Junior to defend someone in full flow rather than on their touch. Some barbaric individual errors can’t be accounted for by the coach, but they can be mitigated by asking players to play to their limitations. Putting Tezgel on the right while keeping Manhoef through to middle was proper howl at the moon stuff. Hopefully that’ll bring into stark focus for Pelach what he’s dealing with. If we play a 4231 / 442 / 4411 with a narrow back-four again, we need to involve the wingers a bit more defensively, particularly on the right. Second half I couldn’t work out whether it was a desperate strategy of throwing random players into the mix and hoping something would work, or an admission that the game was lost and he wanted to see as many of the players as he could performing in a competitive environment. If it’s the latter, it points to a cool-headed reader of the game; If it’s the former, we’re in Mad Nath territory.  |
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Post by pavel on Sept 23, 2024 14:49:10 GMT
The whole club’s senior management , including the latest Coates/ Walters iteration has been in mad Nath territory for the last 8 years to be honest.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 23, 2024 15:34:23 GMT
In what way is Walters doing it differently? Well I did say if. But for starters it's being said that JW sacked SS and appointed NP, IF that's true that sort of decision should not be made by the Sporting Director. I doubt Arnie Slott was appointed by Richard Hughes. Secondly we don't want the SD in our faces but more working behind the scenes in support of NP. We also need NP to have real input in which players are brought into the club, hopefully he will. If JW and SS did have issues then we don't want that to happen again, do we? Finally I don't think JW saying things like I won't be satisfied until the club is is competing in the PL helps a guy who has just been appointed head coach. The sacking of SS and the appointment of NP should definitely be done by the Sporting Director - the Head Coach reports to the Sporting Director, not the owners. There are different way of implementing a SD/HC structure and the balance if responsibilities should be defined in the respective job descriptions. In some clubs (like Watford) the SD has responsibility for recruitment and strategic direction and the HC doesn't have final say. The idea is that sacking a HC is less traumatic as the recruitment strategy and playing style isn't overhauled with each new appointment. It's pretty clear that when we appointed Walters we went for the Watford model. The issues between JW and SS may well have been down to SS wanting more control but if JW was just doing what was in his job description then it is SS who is in the wrong. Pelach definitely sees himself as a Head Coach so that shouldn't be an issue. JW should definitely be setting targets for the club - that isntvundermining the Head Coach, that's setting targets for them to acheive and if they don't they lose their job. I think your understanding of the management structure we have adopted is all wrong - you are assuming the HC is the manager in all but name. They aren't. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 23, 2024 15:39:05 GMT
It's not just Rowett - every manager apart from MoN struggled with the role because it was just two big. Neil came here because the the job was an old school manager job but even he appointed a DoF to take some of the strain. I get why Coates decided to move to the DoF/HHC model. What I find weird is the number of people who still think we have employed a manager and Walters is overstepping the mark as Sporting Director when in fact he's just doing his job. Are we pretending MON did a good job now, he wasn't much better than the rest, his only real positive was doing well in keeping us up, everything else was pretty similar, he also seems to get credit for other people's job which is strange. MoN coped with the all the shit going on in the background in relation to FFP, demolished the squad with little financial support and did better than his predecessors and successors in terms of league position. There was no way we were going to do better over that period. MoN is massively underrated in terms of what he achieved during that period and personally I wished hev had been moved upstairs and appointed SD. |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 23, 2024 15:48:05 GMT
Well I did say if. But for starters it's being said that JW sacked SS and appointed NP, IF that's true that sort of decision should not be made by the Sporting Director. I doubt Arnie Slott was appointed by Richard Hughes. Secondly we don't want the SD in our faces but more working behind the scenes in support of NP. We also need NP to have real input in which players are brought into the club, hopefully he will. If JW and SS did have issues then we don't want that to happen again, do we? Finally I don't think JW saying things like I won't be satisfied until the club is is competing in the PL helps a guy who has just been appointed head coach. The sacking of SS and the appointment of NP should definitely be done by the Sporting Director - the Head Coach reports to the Sporting Director, not the owners. There are different way of implementing a SD/HC structure and the balance if responsibilities should be defined in the respective job descriptions. In some clubs (like Watford) the SD has responsibility for recruitment and strategic direction and the HC doesn't have final say. The idea is that sacking a HC is less traumatic as the recruitment strategy and playing style isn't overhauled with each new appointment. It's pretty clear that when we appointed Walters we went for the Watford model. The issues between JW and SS may well have been down to SS wanting more control but if JW was just doing what was in his job description then it is SS who is in the wrong. Pelach definitely sees himself as a Head Coach so that shouldn't be an issue. JW should definitely be setting targets for the club - that isntvundermining the Head Coach, that's setting targets for them to acheive and if they don't they lose their job. I think your understanding of the management structure we have adopted is all wrong - you are assuming the HC is the manager in all but name. They aren't. Don't agree. I think NP and JW should report too John Coates and I could give many reasons why that should be the case. In the PL do you think PEP, Arteta, Klopp when he was at Liverpool, Slot now report to a Sporting Director, not a chance. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 23, 2024 15:59:34 GMT
The sacking of SS and the appointment of NP should definitely be done by the Sporting Director - the Head Coach reports to the Sporting Director, not the owners. There are different way of implementing a SD/HC structure and the balance if responsibilities should be defined in the respective job descriptions. In some clubs (like Watford) the SD has responsibility for recruitment and strategic direction and the HC doesn't have final say. The idea is that sacking a HC is less traumatic as the recruitment strategy and playing style isn't overhauled with each new appointment. It's pretty clear that when we appointed Walters we went for the Watford model. The issues between JW and SS may well have been down to SS wanting more control but if JW was just doing what was in his job description then it is SS who is in the wrong. Pelach definitely sees himself as a Head Coach so that shouldn't be an issue. JW should definitely be setting targets for the club - that isntvundermining the Head Coach, that's setting targets for them to acheive and if they don't they lose their job. I think your understanding of the management structure we have adopted is all wrong - you are assuming the HC is the manager in all but name. They aren't. Don't agree. I think NP and JW should report too John Coates and I could give many reasons why that should be the case. In the PL do you think PEP, Arteta, Klopp when he was at Liverpool, Slot now report to a Sporting Director, not a chance. It's clear that the model we have adopted is that the HC reports to the the SD. It doesn't matter how the model is implemented elsewhere it's whether the people appointed are fulfilling their job descriptions not the ones adopted at another club. You may have good reason to not like the model we have adopted but you can't blame Walters for overstepping the mark if all he is doing is what's in his job description. Blame John Coates - he's the one that approved the reporting lines and job descriptions. |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 23, 2024 16:00:22 GMT
If you think of the structure at Stoke when SS was manager. If SS was in fact reporting to JW, we had a situation where a man with team management experience at Plymouth was being told he was reporting to a man who had no previous football management experience of any kind, apart from a couple of months at Fleetwood.
Where's the sense in that?
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Post by thornestein on Sept 23, 2024 16:16:05 GMT
The sacking of SS and the appointment of NP should definitely be done by the Sporting Director - the Head Coach reports to the Sporting Director, not the owners. There are different way of implementing a SD/HC structure and the balance if responsibilities should be defined in the respective job descriptions. In some clubs (like Watford) the SD has responsibility for recruitment and strategic direction and the HC doesn't have final say. The idea is that sacking a HC is less traumatic as the recruitment strategy and playing style isn't overhauled with each new appointment. It's pretty clear that when we appointed Walters we went for the Watford model. The issues between JW and SS may well have been down to SS wanting more control but if JW was just doing what was in his job description then it is SS who is in the wrong. Pelach definitely sees himself as a Head Coach so that shouldn't be an issue. JW should definitely be setting targets for the club - that isntvundermining the Head Coach, that's setting targets for them to acheive and if they don't they lose their job. I think your understanding of the management structure we have adopted is all wrong - you are assuming the HC is the manager in all but name. They aren't. Don't agree. I think NP and JW should report too John Coates and I could give many reasons why that should be the case. In the PL do you think PEP, Arteta, Klopp when he was at Liverpool, Slot now report to a Sporting Director, not a chance. that’s not how a TD or SD work , the chairman employ them to run the club for them , so it’s totally JW’s job to hire and fire the HC |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 23, 2024 16:16:09 GMT
If you think of the structure at Stoke when SS was manager. If SS was in fact reporting to JW, we had a situation where a man with team management experience at Plymouth was being told he was reporting to a man who had no previous football management experience of any kind, apart from a couple of months at Fleetwood. Where's the sense in that? How is that Walters fault? It was John Coates who appointed SS, sacked the then DoF Martin and then appointed JW as DoF/SD. Martin was brought in by Neil as a hands off DoF and there's a good chance SS came in thinking he was more of a manager than a HC. There was bound to be conflict between Walter and Schumacher because John Coates made the appointments the wrong way round but that isn't Shumachers or Walters fault. However once the conflict materialised Coates was always, rightly, going to back Walters. Pelach is Walter's pick and clearly sees himself as a HC and not a manager and as a Spaniard he'll be very familiar with that model because that's how it works in most of Europe. I think you are misreading what's happened and are blaming Walters for doing the job he's been given to do. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 23, 2024 16:38:36 GMT
If you think of the structure at Stoke when SS was manager. If SS was in fact reporting to JW, we had a situation where a man with team management experience at Plymouth was being told he was reporting to a man who had no previous football management experience of any kind, apart from a couple of months at Fleetwood. Where's the sense in that? How is that Walters fault? It was John Coates who appointed SS, sacked the then DoF Martin and then appointed JW as DoF/SD. Martin was brought in by Neil as a hands off DoF and there's a good chance SS came in thinking he was more of a manager than a HC. There was bound to be conflict between Walter and Schumacher because John Coates made the appointments the wrong way round but that isn't Shumachers or Walters fault. However once the conflict materialised Coates was always, rightly, going to back Walters. Pelach is Walter's pick and clearly sees himself as a HC and not a manager and as a Spaniard he'll be very familiar with that model because that's how it works in most of Europe. I think you are misreading what's happened and are blaming Walters for doing the job he's been given to do. And that's all very fair. The problem is Walters has gone and sacked a head coach that the majority of fans were happy to give more time on the basis he was just about doing okay and had been tasked with a bit of a project that would take time. Hes added to the problem sticking a head coach in who has very limited relevant experience in terms of what is a very difficult role at Stoke. All I'm hoping now is that somehow Walters pick turns out to be a stroke of absolute genius and by the seasons end we're all waxing lyrical about how astute and visionary Walters is. I feel its a bit of a long shot in all honesty but I'm prepared to get behind Pelach and keep saying my Hail Mary's each night before bed. 🙏 |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 23, 2024 16:44:12 GMT
Don't agree. I think NP and JW should report too John Coates and I could give many reasons why that should be the case. In the PL do you think PEP, Arteta, Klopp when he was at Liverpool, Slot now report to a Sporting Director, not a chance. that’s not how a TD or SD work , the chairman employ them to run the club for them , so it’s totally JW’s job to hire and fire the HC That's how it appears to operate at Stoke, but you have no evidence that it works like that at say bigger clubs in the PL. The man who has responsibility for results on the pitch must have equal authority for decisions with the SD, especially on things like player recruitment, if the SD is his boss that might not happen, in my opinion. |
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