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Post by skip on Sept 9, 2024 0:02:13 GMT
Wondered when woke would be used as an insult...... Looking at the true meaning, not the right wing definition that's used as a negative towards folk with morals and decency, then I hope my kids and every single person I come into contact with in the future is woke. Indeed,I'm all for branding ie. woke/not woke badges, so that I know who to cross the street to avoid.  |
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 9, 2024 3:24:59 GMT
The other two you mention weren’t English. Not that I care I don’t care either. But it’s clear it’s only become an issue because he represented Ireland for forty games, based on his Irish grandmother. He’s Anglo-Irish, like a lot of people in this country. He made a choice years ago, to represent Ireland, probably because he knew he wasn’t good enough to play at international level for England, like Mark Lawrenson, Andy Townsend, Jon Walters, Liam Lawrence, and countless others. It’s a touchy point for both the Irish and the English, as the booing of Grealish and Rice at the game made clear, because they are Anglo-Irish but are actually good enough to play in white. If they weren’t, you can bet they’d have been wearing green shirts the other night. But people like to stir the pot of anti-English and anti-Irish sentiment. Both sides have noisy, tanked up and shallow nationalists that are as bad as each other; and both sides have a quieter majority that think it’s all a bit silly. A bit like singing the national anthem itself. Lawro and Townsend would have easily had a shout of playing for England surely. They were better than a load of the shite who have, put it that way |
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 9, 2024 4:29:38 GMT
I don’t care either. But it’s clear it’s only become an issue because he represented Ireland for forty games, based on his Irish grandmother. He’s Anglo-Irish, like a lot of people in this country. He made a choice years ago, to represent Ireland, probably because he knew he wasn’t good enough to play at international level for England, like Mark Lawrenson, Andy Townsend, Jon Walters, Liam Lawrence, and countless others. It’s a touchy point for both the Irish and the English, as the booing of Grealish and Rice at the game made clear, because they are Anglo-Irish but are actually good enough to play in white. If they weren’t, you can bet they’d have been wearing green shirts the other night. But people like to stir the pot of anti-English and anti-Irish sentiment. Both sides have noisy, tanked up and shallow nationalists that are as bad as each other; and both sides have a quieter majority that think it’s all a bit silly. A bit like singing the national anthem itself. Lawro and Townsend would have easily had a shout of playing for England surely. They were better than a load of the shite who have, put it that way Lawrenson definitely |
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Post by retrostoke on Sept 9, 2024 7:11:54 GMT
We were playing Ireland. It’s hard to get that one wrong is it. Not when you haven't beaten them in decades and not exactly a Germany or Italy I've seen Spain, France, Italy , Greece and Denmark win trophies. England...no. Join the real world The team picked itself. Freshened up by a new team talk. That’s it. Hardly inspiring is he. |
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Post by Northy on Sept 9, 2024 7:20:50 GMT
How do you determine German blood ? Philip, his father was from Greek and Danish heritage, served for this country in the Royal Navy in the 2nd world war. Elizabeth, his mother was born in London, her parents were born in London as well as were her grandparents, her grandad the King, born in London, served in the Royal Navy. With each parent and grandparent etc isn't the DNA diluted, 50%, then 25% etc ? So how many lines of parentage need to be born in the country before they become English/British ? In answer to your question, yes the DNA is diluted with each grandparent, but nevertheless the royal family will always have German DNA in them, but we probably all do to be fair. Not that it matters how German the king is, but if you go back far enough he has a bloodline made up of half German, we are currently in the house of Saxe-Coburg a German one - only changed to Windsor because of anti-German sentiment in WW1, prior to that the house of Hanover a German one going back to George 1st - so yes, as stated in my OP, probably makes him have more German blood/DNA in him than the majority of the people he reigns over. So, Charles was born in London, his mum Liz the 2nd born in London (her husband was from Danish and Greek background so that dilutes it), her father George 6th born in London, his father George 5th born in Norfolk, his father Edward 7th born in London, his father Albert born in Germany, who married Queen Victoria who was English, born in London (so all their children were born in England and were British as born here and had an English mum, and were already in DNA terms half British and half German parentage. How far do you need to go back to say you are British, another 5 generations even with a British mum after 5 generations ? All the way back to the Norman invasion to see if there is any French/Viking ancestry to say you aren't British ? Surely it's where you are born and the way you live in that country decides who/what you are, nobody can help being born what, or where they are. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 9, 2024 8:04:21 GMT
In answer to your question, yes the DNA is diluted with each grandparent, but nevertheless the royal family will always have German DNA in them, but we probably all do to be fair. Not that it matters how German the king is, but if you go back far enough he has a bloodline made up of half German, we are currently in the house of Saxe-Coburg a German one - only changed to Windsor because of anti-German sentiment in WW1, prior to that the house of Hanover a German one going back to George 1st - so yes, as stated in my OP, probably makes him have more German blood/DNA in him than the majority of the people he reigns over. So, Charles was born in London, his mum Liz the 2nd born in London (her husband was from Danish and Greek background so that dilutes it), her father George 6th born in London, his father George 5th born in Norfolk, his father Edward 7th born in London, his father Albert born in Germany, who married Queen Victoria who was English, born in London (so all their children were born in England and were British as born here and had an English mum, and were already in DNA terms half British and half German parentage. How far do you need to go back to say you are British, another 5 generations even with a British mum after 5 generations ? All the way back to the Norman invasion to see if there is any French/Viking ancestry to say you aren't British ? Surely it's where you are born and the way you live in that country decides who/what you are, nobody can help being born what, or where they are. This article gives a good background to what it means to be British en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people. The issue here is more what it is to be English. This article is helpful but reaches no conclusion - perhaps because there isn't one linguapress.com/advanced/english-identity.htm. The problem in part is that the English don't really differentiate between being English and being British and use one or other term interchangeably. You can see this in the national anthem - unlike the Welsh and the Scots the English don't have their own national anthem and we don't have an English assembly. When you look at it England has very few of the trappings of an actual nation - it almost doesn't exist as a real thing. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 9, 2024 10:07:30 GMT
So, Charles was born in London, his mum Liz the 2nd born in London (her husband was from Danish and Greek background so that dilutes it), her father George 6th born in London, his father George 5th born in Norfolk, his father Edward 7th born in London, his father Albert born in Germany, who married Queen Victoria who was English, born in London (so all their children were born in England and were British as born here and had an English mum, and were already in DNA terms half British and half German parentage. How far do you need to go back to say you are British, another 5 generations even with a British mum after 5 generations ? All the way back to the Norman invasion to see if there is any French/Viking ancestry to say you aren't British ? Surely it's where you are born and the way you live in that country decides who/what you are, nobody can help being born what, or where they are. This article gives a good background to what it means to be British en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people. The issue here is more what it is to be English. This article is helpful but reaches no conclusion - perhaps because there isn't one linguapress.com/advanced/english-identity.htm. The problem in part is that the English don't really differentiate between being English and being British and use one or other term interchangeably. You can see this in the national anthem - unlike the Welsh and the Scots the English don't have their own national anthem and we don't have an English assembly. When you look at it England has very few of the trappings of an actual nation - it almost doesn't exist as a real thing. The English assimilate the monarchy's anthem ultimately because the monarchy (for which it is sung) is ostensibly English, and so it creates antipathy outside of England. England is a bastardised nation, the same as any other, so who exactly cares if some people born in or outside of England don't want to sign the monarchy's theme tune? This idea that being English, Scottish, Welsh, British, Irish, German, American, (pick your own identity) turns you into something different (or, worse, better) that anyone from anywhere else is stupid. There can be small cultural differences like language or food preference, but having any amount of pride in the bit of land you happen to have been born on is about as logical as believing your own mythical God is far superior to any other ghost someone else prefers to kill in the name of. If you treat people with kindness, dignity, respect, humour and love it makes you a far better person than being a racist lunatic with no empathy for anyone else outside of your own social circle going around throwing bricks at people who don't believe in the same ghost as you, who aren't the same colour as you, or who don't happen to be born on the same lump of rock as you. Those are the sorts of people who's inferiority complex means they feel the need to build a wall around them to stop people who are different from them coming on to the bit of rock they were born on. |
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Post by cokecystfit on Sept 9, 2024 10:29:57 GMT
Anyone who gives the slightest fuck about this should have a word with themselves. The word will probably be 'egg' or 'pineapple'.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Sept 9, 2024 10:35:16 GMT
It’s not really the be all and end all but if it’s a permanent appointment (which it looks like it could be) it’s totally uninspiring and shows the FA have learned the square root of nothing from Southgate and stuff like this just tops it.
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Post by lordb on Sept 9, 2024 10:38:12 GMT
It’s not really the be all and end all but if it’s a permanent appointment (which it looks like it could be) it’s totally uninspiring and shows the FA have learned the square root of nothing from Southgate and stuff like this just tops it. he's not really like Southgate though? |
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Post by scfcnicholas on Sept 9, 2024 10:41:11 GMT
It’s not really the be all and end all but if it’s a permanent appointment (which it looks like it could be) it’s totally uninspiring and shows the FA have learned the square root of nothing from Southgate and stuff like this just tops it. he's not really like Southgate though? In that he’s unproven he is. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Sept 9, 2024 10:53:49 GMT
Wondered when woke would be used as an insult...... Looking at the true meaning, not the right wing definition that's used as a negative towards folk with morals and decency, then I hope my kids and every single person I come into contact with in the future is woke. Indeed,I'm all for branding ie. woke/not woke badges, so that I know who to cross the street to avoid. This a 1000 times. Why the fuck wouldn’t people want to be “woke” and aware of the issues that affect other people? The alternative I assume to “woke” is asleep and ignorant of those issues. I know which “tribe” I’d prefer to spend my life around. |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 9, 2024 11:06:17 GMT
It’s not really the be all and end all but if it’s a permanent appointment (which it looks like it could be) it’s totally uninspiring and shows the FA have learned the square root of nothing from Southgate and stuff like this just tops it. Carsley is a proper coach, Southgate definitely isn't... |
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JudgeMental
Youth Player
Your Iso-Cube is waiting.
Posts: 375
Location: MegastokeCity 1
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Post by JudgeMental on Sept 9, 2024 11:35:20 GMT
Good job there isn't a home game for England around November 11th.
The Daily Heil et al will go full-on poppy police.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 9, 2024 11:55:39 GMT
The only thing that worried me about Carsley is how long it took to bring some subs on when we were clearly struggling. The 1st half was good, the 2nd half poor but subs could have helped that if they were a lot sooner. You react too slow against a top team and you go out
Personally I don't think he should get the job permanently and it should go to someone who has plenty of managerial experience. The England manager should have managed at the highest level, I don't believe can train your own manager because all clubs would be doing it if so
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 9, 2024 12:21:59 GMT
This article gives a good background to what it means to be British en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people. The issue here is more what it is to be English. This article is helpful but reaches no conclusion - perhaps because there isn't one linguapress.com/advanced/english-identity.htm. The problem in part is that the English don't really differentiate between being English and being British and use one or other term interchangeably. You can see this in the national anthem - unlike the Welsh and the Scots the English don't have their own national anthem and we don't have an English assembly. When you look at it England has very few of the trappings of an actual nation - it almost doesn't exist as a real thing. The English assimilate the monarchy's anthem ultimately because the monarchy (for which it is sung) is ostensibly English, and so it creates antipathy outside of England. England is a bastardised nation, the same as any other, so who exactly cares if some people born in or outside of England don't want to sign the monarchy's theme tune? This idea that being English, Scottish, Welsh, British, Irish, German, American, (pick your own identity) turns you into something different (or, worse, better) that anyone from anywhere else is stupid. There can be small cultural differences like language or food preference, but having any amount of pride in the bit of land you happen to have been born on is about as logical as believing your own mythical God is far superior to any other ghost someone else prefers to kill in the name of. If you treat people with kindness, dignity, respect, humour and love it makes you a far better person than being a racist lunatic with no empathy for anyone else outside of your own social circle going around throwing bricks at people who don't believe in the same ghost as you, who aren't the same colour as you, or who don't happen to be born on the same lump of rock as you. Those are the sorts of people who's inferiority complex means they feel the need to build a wall around them to stop people who are different from them coming on to the bit of rock they were born on. Amen to that. |
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Post by sportsman on Sept 9, 2024 12:27:56 GMT
Can’t believe this thread is still open
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 9, 2024 12:28:21 GMT
The only thing that worried me about Carsley is how long it took to bring some subs on when we were clearly struggling. The 1st half was good, the 2nd half poor but subs could have helped that if they were a lot sooner. You react too slow against a top team and you go out Personally I don't think he should get the job permanently and it should go to someone who has plenty of managerial experience. The England manager should have managed at the highest level, I don't believe can train your own manager because all clubs would be doing it if so Managing a national team is very different to running a club team - it's more focused on coaching and very little else. Many aspects of club management experience don't really matter. Its might be an internal appointment but already Carsley looks very different to Southgate. If he does well no reason not to give him the job. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 9, 2024 12:40:05 GMT
The only thing that worried me about Carsley is how long it took to bring some subs on when we were clearly struggling. The 1st half was good, the 2nd half poor but subs could have helped that if they were a lot sooner. You react too slow against a top team and you go out Personally I don't think he should get the job permanently and it should go to someone who has plenty of managerial experience. The England manager should have managed at the highest level, I don't believe can train your own manager because all clubs would be doing it if so Managing a national team is very different to running a club team - it's more focused on coaching and very little else. Many aspects of club management experience don't really matter. Its might be an internal appointment but already Carsley looks very different to Southgate. If he does well no reason not to give him the job. In game management is a vital part of a football match, tactics are too. I believe experience is needed. |
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Post by lordb on Sept 9, 2024 12:41:36 GMT
he's not really like Southgate though? In that he’s unproven he is. that's true, never managed a senior side before except unlike Southgate when he was U21 boss Carsley has won U21 Euro's I can't see an obvious candidate for the England job as Klopp & Pep have said no at this time, Howe is OK but no more, Potter same, Pochetinnho (who has now taken USA job) slaughtered for not winning a trophy, would like Postecoglu myself but he would also get slaughtered for not having won Champions League or Prem League Carsley has at least won an U21 tournament & will typically look to play attacking football(but not second half) as we saw first half v Ireland As such atm stick with Carsley as caretaker |
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 9, 2024 13:04:37 GMT
The only thing that worried me about Carsley is how long it took to bring some subs on when we were clearly struggling. The 1st half was good, the 2nd half poor but subs could have helped that if they were a lot sooner. You react too slow against a top team and you go out Personally I don't think he should get the job permanently and it should go to someone who has plenty of managerial experience. The England manager should have managed at the highest level, I don't believe can train your own manager because all clubs would be doing it if so The Spain appointment definitely questions the idea of it being an established manager? He never managed a club side of any note and he seems to be going fine. |
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Post by Eggybread on Sept 9, 2024 13:29:47 GMT
I cannot remember the last time I sung our pro monarchy national anthem,nust be 40 odd years ago.
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Post by thanksjon on Sept 9, 2024 13:45:38 GMT
Definition of a slow news day.
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 9, 2024 14:27:07 GMT
Wondered when woke would be used as an insult...... Looking at the true meaning, not the right wing definition that's used as a negative towards folk with morals and decency, then I hope my kids and every single person I come into contact with in the future is woke. Indeed,I'm all for branding ie. woke/not woke badges, so that I know who to cross the street to avoid. This a 1000 times. Why the fuck wouldn’t people want to be “woke” and aware of the issues that affect other people? The alternative I assume to “woke” is asleep and ignorant of those issues. I know which “tribe” I’d prefer to spend my life around. In essence, absolutely. You can't argue against woke in it's true sense. The problem I have with it is many woke people I know absolutely hate being questioned and are extremely intolerant of any sort of differing views, however mild. Carsley not singing the national anthem, when he's explained his extremely fair reasoning, is a complete non story. I don't sing Delilah as i dislike the song, but it doesn't make me any less a Stoke fan. |
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Post by Ron on Sept 9, 2024 14:42:31 GMT
I couldn’t care less that he didn’t sing the national anthem, he or any other manager. We’ve had plenty of players that havent sung down the years.. just something else for the flag shagging right winger morons to jump on.
He represented Ireland at international level ffs.
What matters is that the manager, whenever it may be, gets results . Let’s say klopp or pochettino got the England job- would we expect them to sing?? Ffs.
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 9, 2024 14:45:42 GMT
I couldn’t care less that he didn’t sing the national anthem, he or any other manager. We’ve had plenty of players that havent sung down the years.. just something else for the flag shagging right winger morons to jump on. He represented Ireland at international level ffs. What matters is that the manager, whenever it may be, gets results . Let’s say klopp or pochettino got the England job- would we expect them to sing?? Ffs. He's also said it's so he can fully focus on the game. That's fine and makes sense. Some managers may feel singing it would help them, also fine. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 9, 2024 16:47:32 GMT
The only thing that worried me about Carsley is how long it took to bring some subs on when we were clearly struggling. The 1st half was good, the 2nd half poor but subs could have helped that if they were a lot sooner. You react too slow against a top team and you go out Personally I don't think he should get the job permanently and it should go to someone who has plenty of managerial experience. The England manager should have managed at the highest level, I don't believe can train your own manager because all clubs would be doing it if so The Spain appointment definitely questions the idea of it being an established manager? He never managed a club side of any note and he seems to be going fine. Sometimes teams win despite the manager, we made a few finals despite Southgate and very fortunate draws. Roberto Di Matteo won the champions League with Chelsea but quickly got found out. Southgate had the best players on multiple occasions and lost games or played poorly. Carsley could be a conference level manager for all we know, seems a risk to me, one we don't need to make. The players could quickly lose faith in an unproven manager. He would just be easy for players to hide behind |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 9, 2024 16:52:17 GMT
This a 1000 times. Why the fuck wouldn’t people want to be “woke” and aware of the issues that affect other people? The alternative I assume to “woke” is asleep and ignorant of those issues. I know which “tribe” I’d prefer to spend my life around. In essence, absolutely. You can't argue against woke in it's true sense. The problem I have with it is many woke people I know absolutely hate being questioned and are extremely intolerant of any sort of differing views, however mild. Carsley not singing the national anthem, when he's explained his extremely fair reasoning, is a complete non story. I don't sing Delilah as i dislike the song, but it doesn't make me any less a Stoke fan. The Daily Mail wanted him sacked straight after the Ireland game because he said he wouldn't sing it. Nobody knows woke is because nowadays it's just used to dilute someone's view |
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Post by pavel on Sept 9, 2024 16:59:28 GMT
His last match in charge is just after Remembrance Sunday, it could all get a bit feisty.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 9, 2024 17:06:20 GMT
His last match in charge is just after Remembrance Sunday, it could all get a bit feisty. I highly doubt it’ll be his last |
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