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Post by unknown182 on Aug 25, 2024 9:44:15 GMT
Playing 3 at the back. Every manager since Mark Hughes has tried it and it's shit.
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Post by Gods on Aug 25, 2024 9:45:20 GMT
The more I look at the headline of this thread the more I want to go into the production of red and white striped rubber pants. Can’t help but think I would sell thousands. It’s August. The transfer window is still open. We’ve got several players not played yet. We’ve got 2 important ones back from serious injury yesterday. We’ve got 7 new recruits to settle in and find our best formation. Hysterical is not too strong a word when only 5 teams in the division have won 2 games so far. Trouble is all the time that's going on the season is slipping away. We desperately needed a good start, to build some confidence among the players and belief among the fans. But once again we didn't get one. I can see why folks are angry and frustrated. |
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Post by bojanwonder on Aug 25, 2024 10:03:31 GMT
For me it's just football and luck plays a huge part in getting in right. We're not the first and we certainly won't be the last to get it wrong for several years.
The process is bloody hard and if you don't get it right within the first couple of years of dropping out of the prem, then you are likely to struggle at some point. See Leeds, Forest, Portsmouth, Ipswich, Barnsley, Swansea, Cardiff, Sunderland, and so on.
Like many other clubs we are trying to find that magic formula and I definitely thinks it has to be the manager above everything else. Look at Forest under Hughton. I remember us playing them at home and I was genuinely shocked at how bad they looked. They were near the bottom just before Christmas if I remember correctly. Then along comes Steve Cooper and, with pretty much the same players, he completely turns things around.
If we have to change the manager yet again then so be it. Not just yet though. Football is a funny old game and we could suddenly start winning a few!
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Post by retrostoke on Aug 25, 2024 10:22:35 GMT
The more I look at the headline of this thread the more I want to go into the production of red and white striped rubber pants. Can’t help but think I would sell thousands. It’s August. The transfer window is still open. We’ve got several players not played yet. We’ve got 2 important ones back from serious injury yesterday. We’ve got 7 new recruits to settle in and find our best formation. Hysterical is not too strong a word when only 5 teams in the division have won 2 games so far. Trouble is all the time that's going on the season is slipping away. We desperately needed a good start, to build some confidence among the players and belief among the fans. But once again we didn't get one. I can see why folks are angry and frustrated. Slipping away after 3 games. Blimey. It’s unrealistic expectations that need to slip away and then there might be some sensible discussion |
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Post by Ron on Aug 25, 2024 10:24:20 GMT
FFP. That’s what’s holding us back.
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Post by Ron on Aug 25, 2024 10:25:20 GMT
Playing 3 at the back. Every manager since Mark Hughes has tried it and it's shit. done properly it works. We’ve never done it properly, bar a breif stint under MON |
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Post by bunnyscfc on Aug 25, 2024 10:29:12 GMT
Two words: Jon Coates.
Keeps employing managers unfit for purpose and ex-players. If we had a proper manager, like West Brom, we'd have won yesterday. Simple as that.
I was asked by some high profile SCFC leaders a couple of years ago about how to improve the matchday atmosphere. I said don't worry about fanzones and free events for season ticket holders and the likes - simply stop appointing dickheads and win a few matches.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 25, 2024 11:02:16 GMT
Two words: Jon Coates. Keeps employing managers unfit for purpose and ex-players. If we had a proper manager, like West Brom, we'd have won yesterday. Simple as that. I was asked by some high profile SCFC leaders a couple of years ago about how to improve the matchday atmosphere. I said don't worry about fanzones and free events for season ticket holders and the likes - simply stop appointing dickheads and win a few matches. So you had no real tangible advice then? “Start winning a few games” is just wish washy bollocks with respect. Who would you appoint as manager if/when SS goes then, just out of interest? |
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Post by bunnyscfc on Aug 25, 2024 11:09:07 GMT
Two words: Jon Coates. Keeps employing managers unfit for purpose and ex-players. If we had a proper manager, like West Brom, we'd have won yesterday. Simple as that. I was asked by some high profile SCFC leaders a couple of years ago about how to improve the matchday atmosphere. I said don't worry about fanzones and free events for season ticket holders and the likes - simply stop appointing dickheads and win a few matches. So you had no real tangible advice then? “Start winning a few games” is just wish washy bollocks with respect. Who would you appoint as manager if/when SS goes then, just out of interest? Corboran, someone I've wanted for the last 2 years. I would say that stop employing dickheads is absolutely perfect advice. |
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Post by Waggy on Aug 25, 2024 11:14:20 GMT
Directors of football. Let’s buck the trend and go back to letting the managers sign the players. It simply does not work for teams outside top 10 of the premier league. Unless you’re spending millions upon millions it’s a waste of time.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 25, 2024 11:15:40 GMT
So you had no real tangible advice then? “Start winning a few games” is just wish washy bollocks with respect. Who would you appoint as manager if/when SS goes then, just out of interest? Corboran, someone I've wanted for the last 2 years. I would say that stop employing dickheads is absolutely perfect advice. He’d been sacked by Olympiakos precious to the West Brom job so there’s still no guarantees. He’s now in a job he won’t leave though (certainly not for us) so who would you replace SS with if he was to be sacked? |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 25, 2024 11:17:20 GMT
So you had no real tangible advice then? “Start winning a few games” is just wish washy bollocks with respect. Who would you appoint as manager if/when SS goes then, just out of interest? Corboran, someone I've wanted for the last 2 years. I would say that stop employing dickheads is absolutely perfect advice. So Schumacher is a dickhead then? |
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Post by bunnyscfc on Aug 25, 2024 11:25:54 GMT
Corboran, someone I've wanted for the last 2 years. I would say that stop employing dickheads is absolutely perfect advice. So Schumacher is a dickhead then? Do you think I used that term? Although it does apply to a few that JC has chosen, doesn't it? I like SS as a bloke, but tactically he's been shown up more often than not. Our copy and paste cycle will soon be in operation again. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Aug 25, 2024 11:27:31 GMT
It's not 'just 3 games' though is it, it's 7 seasons now.
I could accept that if we'd have been top half in at least one of those seasons, but we haven't been.
I'd be happy with 12th and then build from there. Hopefully win the next one.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 25, 2024 11:28:24 GMT
So Schumacher is a dickhead then? Do you think I used that term? Although it does apply to a few that JC has chosen, doesn't it? I like SS as a bloke, but tactically he's been shown up more often than not. Our copy and paste cycle will soon be in operation again. Your first sentence makes no sense🤔 |
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Post by bagnallboothen on Aug 25, 2024 11:33:20 GMT
Directors of football. Let’s buck the trend and go back to letting the managers sign the players. It simply does not work for teams outside top 10 of the premier league. Unless you’re spending millions upon millions it’s a waste of time. Worked wonderfully with Gary Rowett |
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Post by greenhoff on Aug 25, 2024 11:38:23 GMT
Our inability to appoint a coach/manager who can take us forward. That comes down to the bloke in overall charge.
You’d think by the law of averages we’d stumble on someone who can turn the shit show that is Stoke City around but alas it doesn’t look like happening any time soon.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 25, 2024 11:38:27 GMT
The reality of the situation we are in. We are no different to other clubs of our size who have got relegated from the Premier League and not got promoted within 2 seasons.
In the first season you can afford to hold on to players, sign some decent Championship players and hope to get promoted. Second season you have to start offloading and hope you still have enough quality to go up. Third season is shit or bust - offload your best players or go for it and risk FFP catching you out.
If you don't go up in those first few seasons you spend two or three seasons offloading what you haven't managed to get rid of and replacing them with inferior players and hope you don't get relegated. That's what happened in the MoN era. You can then start rebuilding - but it will take two or three seasons to build something capable of getting promoted. This started for us last season.
It's where we are in that cycle and we are competing with teams in the same position. We have no more right to go up than anyone else and it can take years to get back into the Premiership - look at Leeds and Firest before they went up and how the likes of Coventry, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday have been no where near.
Everybody seems to be looking inward in answering this question and looking for someone at the club to blame. There may have been mistakes but the real problem is external - its the situation we are in. You can blame Captain Smith all you like for the Titanic sinking but at the end of the day it's the iceberg whats done it.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Aug 25, 2024 11:41:24 GMT
The reality of the situation we are in. We are no different to other clubs of our size who have got relegated from the Premier League and not got promoted within 2 seasons. In the first season you can afford to hold on to players, sign some decent Championship players and hope to get promoted. Second season you have to start offloading and hope you still have enough quality to go up. Third season is shit or bust - offload your best players or go for it and risk FFP catching you out. If you don't go up in those first few seasons you spend two or three seasons offloading what you haven't managed to get rid of and replacing them with inferior players and hope you don't get relegated. That's what happened in the MoN era. You can then start rebuilding - but it will take two or three seasons to build something capable of getting promoted. This started for us last season. It's where we are in that cycle and we are competing with teams in the same position. We have no more right to go up than anyone else and it can take years to get back into the Premiership - look at Leeds and Firest before they went up and how the likes of Coventry, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday have been no where near. Everybody seems to be looking inward in answering this question and looking for someone at the club to blame. There may have been mistakes but the real problem is external - its the situation we are in. You can blame Captain Smith all you like for the Titanic sinking but at the end of the day it's the iceberg whats done it. Why are we the only club to go down since 2018 and not make the Play Offs? Indeed, we've been bottom half each season. Other clubs have made a far better fist of relegation than us |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 25, 2024 11:42:42 GMT
Still not sure about quality of player we attract, Baggies meant to be in some difficulties yet can have players like Wallace and Diangana on their bench and our starting line up still has plenty of question marks with just a few days left in the window, how many tog half Championship level players do we have? . Gibson Junho Million and maybe Koumas on yesterday's level, not a lot else suggesting we can improve much on the past few seasons as far as I can see.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 25, 2024 11:48:09 GMT
Playing 3 at the back. Every manager since Mark Hughes has tried it and it's shit. done properly it works. We’ve never done it properly, bar a breif stint under MON Hi was easily the best manager here since relegation, if they had kept him and given him the money Neil had last season we would be a few places higher, very odd decision to get rid. We were struggling but he had no money and was clearing the excess of Rowett and Jones and generally recruiting better than either of them. |
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Post by Waggy on Aug 25, 2024 11:48:46 GMT
Directors of football. Let’s buck the trend and go back to letting the managers sign the players. It simply does not work for teams outside top 10 of the premier league. Unless you’re spending millions upon millions it’s a waste of time. Worked wonderfully with Gary Rowett I’m talking top top premier money. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 25, 2024 12:45:06 GMT
The reality of the situation we are in. We are no different to other clubs of our size who have got relegated from the Premier League and not got promoted within 2 seasons. In the first season you can afford to hold on to players, sign some decent Championship players and hope to get promoted. Second season you have to start offloading and hope you still have enough quality to go up. Third season is shit or bust - offload your best players or go for it and risk FFP catching you out. If you don't go up in those first few seasons you spend two or three seasons offloading what you haven't managed to get rid of and replacing them with inferior players and hope you don't get relegated. That's what happened in the MoN era. You can then start rebuilding - but it will take two or three seasons to build something capable of getting promoted. This started for us last season. It's where we are in that cycle and we are competing with teams in the same position. We have no more right to go up than anyone else and it can take years to get back into the Premiership - look at Leeds and Firest before they went up and how the likes of Coventry, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday have been no where near. Everybody seems to be looking inward in answering this question and looking for someone at the club to blame. There may have been mistakes but the real problem is external - its the situation we are in. You can blame Captain Smith all you like for the Titanic sinking but at the end of the day it's the iceberg whats done it. Why are we the only club to go down since 2018 and not make the Play Offs? Indeed, we've been bottom half each season. Other clubs have made a far better fist of relegation than us Because the squad that we went down with was a train wreck completely incapable of promotion and we made the mistake of thinking we could spend our parachute payments to support an immediate return to the Premiership and instead just extended the squad demolition period. Had we demolished that squad in the first year we would be 2 or 3 years ahead of where we are. The teams who went down since we gave been there who have down well either had decent squads when they went down or bit the bullet earlier. We hit the iceberg and everything since has been about refloating the ship. We stopped sinking last season but we still aren't sea worthy. |
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Post by bunnyscfc on Aug 25, 2024 12:53:27 GMT
Why are we the only club to go down since 2018 and not make the Play Offs? Indeed, we've been bottom half each season. Other clubs have made a far better fist of relegation than us Because the squad that we went down with was a train wreck completely incapable of promotion and we made the mistake of thinking we could spend our parachute payments to support an immediate return to the Premiership and instead just extended the squad demolition period. Had we demolished that squad in the first year we would be 2 or 3 years ahead of where we are. The teams who went down since we gave been there who have down well either had decent squads when they went down or bit the bullet earlier. We hit the iceberg and everything since has been about refloating the ship. We stopped sinking last season but we still aren't sea worthy. West Brom was one train wreck far greater than our club and still is. There are other examples, too. |
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Post by scfcnicholas on Aug 25, 2024 13:13:21 GMT
FFP. We’re now shopping in exactly the same market as a pool of other mid table clubs so how can we expect different results unless master stroke of amazing management and savvy decisions which is rarer. It doesn’t matter that we’re on of the biggest clubs in the country. As long as ffp is around in its current form the likelyhood is more of the same
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 25, 2024 14:31:22 GMT
FFP. We’re now shopping in exactly the same market as a pool of other mid table clubs so how can we expect different results unless master stroke of amazing management and savvy decisions which is rarer. It doesn’t matter that we’re on of the biggest clubs in the country. As long as ffp is around in its current form the likelyhood is more of the same Get rid of FFP and what happens to all those teams in our position? They all mortgage their future on getting promoted. Some do, some don't, others come down and join the free for all. After 2 or 3 seasons of financial irresponsibility those that gambled and failed go bust. The assumption is the owners have deep pockets and will bail us out. The question is at what point Bet365 cut and run. Assuming that tap remains switched on is very nieve. |
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Post by onepara on Aug 25, 2024 15:33:27 GMT
FFP. We’re now shopping in exactly the same market as a pool of other mid table clubs so how can we expect different results unless master stroke of amazing management and savvy decisions which is rarer. It doesn’t matter that we’re on of the biggest clubs in the country. As long as ffp is around in its current form the likelyhood is more of the same Get rid of FFP and what happens to all those teams in our position? They all mortgage their future on getting promoted. Some do, some don't, others come down and join the free for all. After 2 or 3 seasons of financial irresponsibility those that gambled and failed go bust. The assumption is the owners have deep pockets and will bail us out. The question is at what point Bet365 cut and run. Assuming that tap remains switched on is very nieve. The problem is, that Bet365 has nothing to do with us now. What happens if J.C. gets fed up? |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 25, 2024 15:56:07 GMT
Get rid of FFP and what happens to all those teams in our position? They all mortgage their future on getting promoted. Some do, some don't, others come down and join the free for all. After 2 or 3 seasons of financial irresponsibility those that gambled and failed go bust. The assumption is the owners have deep pockets and will bail us out. The question is at what point Bet365 cut and run. Assuming that tap remains switched on is very nieve. The problem is, that Bet365 has nothing to do with us now. What happens if J.C. gets fed up? JC can sell the club as an independent entity given it us now setup that way. The Bet365 connection gives us a potential money stream providing it can be provided in a way that is FFP compliant. Get rid of FFP and the question is would Bet365 pour money into the money pit and if JC were bought out would the next owners just chuck money in for no financial gain? I doubt it. People assume the Club is loaded and in a free for all we would out spend everyone else. Which isn't how it will pan out. |
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Post by kidcrewbob on Aug 25, 2024 15:57:45 GMT
Our terminal obsession with pedestrian or unknown domestic managers coupled with an unhealthy aversion to any sort of risk - both on and off the pitch.
What worked with Pulis in 2007/8/9 wouldn't work now - the world has moved on and we're still stuck in this time warp.
JC is a decent enough chap and we would.be dead and buried as a club were it not for the family but he needs someone to help us break some moulds and kill some sacred cows....
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 25, 2024 16:00:02 GMT
For me it's the lack of a consistent team shape. It's all well and good setting up differently for different opposition if players can adapt quickly. Far better in my opinion to settle on say 4 4 3 and stick to it.
The main thing is that we start off with a point, if they don't score we finish with at least a point. Great if we get a goal scoring striker but even then we need to defend better.
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