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Post by premieraj on Sept 17, 2024 11:51:17 GMT
Well SJW had no skin in the game with Shoey but he certainly will have with Narcis if he’s appointed.
He will have to back him to the hilt and no quick sacking as he would be then questioning his own judgment. I could only see a problem if we are flirting with relegation.
I do think though it is unfair to an HC to just be given players if he doesn’t want them…..there has to be an element of agreement surely?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 17, 2024 11:59:17 GMT
Did JW sack Shue or did he have to have a word with J Coates,even then who sacked him JW or Coates? Walters’ statement very much suggests it was his decision Then it makes you wonder what Coates thinks of it all,is he glad or fecking furious about it?
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Post by baconburger on Sept 17, 2024 12:04:30 GMT
It’s Walters responsibility to take the club forward. That’s his job. For me he has done that with the squad in the summer. Some good signings. Walters clearly doesn’t rate SS and so sees it his responsibility to act quickly for the good of the club. Again that’s his role, that’s his responsibility. I applaud him for taking such a massive decision. He has backed himself. That is what you would want. Whether it was a good call or not will be proved in a couple of months but Walters has clearly decided SS isn’t good enough for Stoke City. Plenty on here agree that without the insight Walters has. I like SS. I like his style of football BUT Walters is the boss. Walters job is to see us in the top 6 at least. He didn’t like what he was seeing so he acted ruthlessly. Fair play to him for that. We shall see whether he becomes an all time legend by this or a complete fuckwit. What I can’t criticise is his personal conviction to the well being of this club It’s possibly the bravest decision made by any Stoke manager, DoF or board member/owner in recent years.
We’ve had people crying out for the manager and Walters to be brave in their approach. He’s just done it. It’s not pretty and I feel sorry for Schumacher but personally I think it’s about fucking time we were a bit ruthless and single minded. We’ve arsed around for a decade. I don’t care who the manager or DoF is so long as we get some consistency and quality in our performances. Is it really? imo it was just entirely predictable. I'm just glad in a way that the politics is over. There were enough indications that it wasn't a good working relationship for anyone who doesn't need things spelling out for them. Nobody left to carry the can for JW.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 17, 2024 13:13:11 GMT
Indeed but listenimg is as big a skill as doing Who should he be listening to? Hes well connected so as many he trusts as possible
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Post by Miles Offside on Sept 17, 2024 17:22:58 GMT
Jon Walters showed his character as a player - highly committed, honest, reliable and tough. He knows football at this level inside out and is well suited to his present role. He's now showed himself to be ruthless as well.
He'll be appointing the next coach with his eyes wide open. He'll know appointing Pelach is a gamble. Pep isn't available, so every other managerial appointment is.
We've tried the solid Championship type (Rowatt), those with recent promotions on their CVs (Jones, Niell and Schumaker) and the wise old head (O'Niell). So he's decided to roll the dice. He'll get blamed if it doesn't work (along with JC) and the new coach will be a star if it does. It's the way of the world.
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Post by RAF on Sept 17, 2024 17:26:24 GMT
It's ok he worked aaaaard! Proper qualification right there! H RAF. You’ve let yourself down with that comment I let myself down daily. Dunna worry 👍 H
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Sept 17, 2024 21:10:13 GMT
I wonder if Walters was the poster on here who kept saying we should follow the Watford model...
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Post by idle on Sept 18, 2024 6:28:04 GMT
I wonder if Walters was the poster on here who kept saying we should follow the Watford model... Yeah, and look where they are. The most optimistic thing I can say about JW is that I didn't like the way TP worked either. I thought he was stubborn, pig-headed, and frankly not very bright, but he showed that hard work can get you places.
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Post by moon on Sept 18, 2024 7:10:01 GMT
I wonder if Walters was the poster on here who kept saying we should follow the Watford model... Yeah, and look where they are. The most optimistic thing I can say about JW is that I didn't like the way TP worked either. I thought he was stubborn, pig-headed, and frankly not very bright, but he showed that hard work can get you place The Watford model is insane, they've had some top quality managers over the years as well with the likes of Jokanovic, Silva, QSF, Ranieri, Hodgson, Bilic, Ishmael, perhaps Pearson and Wilder can make that list too.
They're a complete basket case of a club though, as are we these days, it's not a model anyone should be copying.
TP was stubborn for sure, not the most technical of managers to put it kindly, but he understood people far better than many other managers do, and he managed to connect with the community and to create a special atmosphere in and around the club that we hadn't seen since the days of Macari, and haven't seen since. TP also gave us an identity, not an identity that everyone liked for sure, but you knew what you were getting - and anyone visiting the Brit knew they were in for a tough game (away games not so much, but we were strong at home).
I don't want to see us recreate the days of TP in terms of his style, I'd love us to get some of that hard work and unity back though, and to bring some passion that has been missing for a long time. If SJW can achieve some of that and ensure we also play some great football then he'll go down as a Stoke legend off the pitch as well.
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Post by jay1610 on Sept 18, 2024 7:27:37 GMT
Surprised that people think Walters’ ruthlessness shows he’s qualified for the job.
We’ll be the judge of that.
From where I’m standing he’s under-qualified for the role and had better be right on this call.
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Post by idle on Sept 18, 2024 7:43:14 GMT
Yeah, and look where they are. The most optimistic thing I can say about JW is that I didn't like the way TP worked either. I thought he was stubborn, pig-headed, and frankly not very bright, but he showed that hard work can get you place The Watford model is insane, they've had some top quality managers over the years as well with the likes of Jokanovic, Silva, QSF, Ranieri, Hodgson, Bilic, Ishmael, perhaps Pearson and Wilder can make that list too. They're a complete basket case of a club though, as are we these days, it's not a model anyone should be copying. TP was stubborn for sure, not the most technical of managers to put it kindly, but he understood people far better than many other managers do, and he managed to connect with the community and to create a special atmosphere in and around the club that we hadn't seen since the days of Macari, and haven't seen since. TP also gave us an identity, not an identity that everyone liked for sure, but you knew what you were getting - and anyone visiting the Brit knew they were in for a tough game (away games not so much, but we were strong at home). I don't want to see us recreate the days of TP in terms of his style, I'd love us to get some of that hard work and unity back though, and to bring some passion that has been missing for a long time. If SJW can achieve some of that and ensure we also play some great football then he'll go down as a Stoke legend off the pitch as well.
Sure, but the model is radically different. TP was god-manager. JWs fate (and ours I fear) all hinges on this single appointment of head coach. If they fail and we're bottom three at christmas with a very young squad, chances are we'd end up in League 1.
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 18, 2024 8:03:19 GMT
I hate the DoF/ Head Coach model. It allows the DoF to hide and blame the Head Coach. This time its Walters appointment of an untried unknown that puts him directly in the firing line. I hope it works out for all our sakes but if it doesn't then Walters must accept the blame and either leave or be sacked.
Sounds harsh but I think its only fair
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 18, 2024 8:03:55 GMT
Just to be fair to the owners for a moment, most on here have called for the following:
Sack under performing managers quicker.
Bring in a football man to help JC run the club.
Bring in a foreign manager.
Well they've done all three.
Problem is though have they sacked SS too soon, have they brought in the wrong Sporting Director and have they brought in the wrong foreign manager.
We're about to find out!
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Post by pushon on Sept 18, 2024 8:04:59 GMT
Surprised that people think Walters’ ruthlessness shows he’s qualified for the job. We’ll be the judge of that. From where I’m standing he’s under-qualified for the role and had better be right on this call. I find it surprising that you're surprised, from my perspective he's doing his job and not just allowing 'the grass to grow under his feet'. Time will tell.
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Post by moon on Sept 18, 2024 8:08:02 GMT
The Watford model is insane, they've had some top quality managers over the years as well with the likes of Jokanovic, Silva, QSF, Ranieri, Hodgson, Bilic, Ishmael, perhaps Pearson and Wilder can make that list too. They're a complete basket case of a club though, as are we these days, it's not a model anyone should be copying. TP was stubborn for sure, not the most technical of managers to put it kindly, but he understood people far better than many other managers do, and he managed to connect with the community and to create a special atmosphere in and around the club that we hadn't seen since the days of Macari, and haven't seen since. TP also gave us an identity, not an identity that everyone liked for sure, but you knew what you were getting - and anyone visiting the Brit knew they were in for a tough game (away games not so much, but we were strong at home). I don't want to see us recreate the days of TP in terms of his style, I'd love us to get some of that hard work and unity back though, and to bring some passion that has been missing for a long time. If SJW can achieve some of that and ensure we also play some great football then he'll go down as a Stoke legend off the pitch as well.
Sure, but the model is radically different. TP was god-manager. JWs fate (and ours I fear) all hinges on this single appointment of head coach. If they fail and we're bottom three at christmas with a very young squad, chances are we'd end up in League 1. Time will tell, I think we'll be okay and finish mid table again - I suspect the new guy will do alright (but it's just a hunch, I know nothing about him), it's a massive gamble though and I think it was way too early to sack Schumacher, if it goes badly as you suggest then it'll be league one next season.
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Post by moon on Sept 18, 2024 8:10:52 GMT
Well SJW had no skin in the game with Shoey but he certainly will have with Narcis if he’s appointed. He will have to back him to the hilt and no quick sacking as he would be then questioning his own judgment. I could only see a problem if we are flirting with relegation. I do think though it is unfair to an HC to just be given players if he doesn’t want them…..there has to be an element of agreement surely? It's madness if there isn't some agreement between JW and the HC on the players that are coming in, especially where those players are short term (e.g. a season long loan / a 1-2 year deal).
Sometimes people are just not suited to work together though, and I suspect the situation came to a head and one of them had to go.
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Post by pushon on Sept 18, 2024 8:50:26 GMT
Well SJW had no skin in the game with Shoey but he certainly will have with Narcis if he’s appointed. He will have to back him to the hilt and no quick sacking as he would be then questioning his own judgment. I could only see a problem if we are flirting with relegation. I do think though it is unfair to an HC to just be given players if he doesn’t want them…..there has to be an element of agreement surely? It's madness if there isn't some agreement between JW and the HC on the players that are coming in, especially where those players are short term (e.g. a season long loan / a 1-2 year deal). Sometimes people are just not suited to work together though, and I suspect the situation came to a head and one of them had to go.
Jon Walters is the Director,ie He directs to the HC what type of system/tactical approach that he and the Board wish to see. Primary in this is of course a positive result. They do of course need to have a 'positive' and respectful(ish) working relationship,but don't need to be friends, just professional. As the Director JW is the ultimate decision maker of the two.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 18, 2024 14:19:56 GMT
There is a reason plc and large co baords have non execs to emsure all big decusikns are bakanced and well thouht through . Ceo,s are undertandably notoruously and understandably impatient but i csnt helps feeking ojr boazroom reemins short on balance
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 18, 2024 15:25:18 GMT
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Post by dirtclod on Sept 18, 2024 15:41:48 GMT
Jon Walters showed his character as a player - highly committed, honest, reliable and tough. He knows football at this level inside out and is well suited to his present role. He's now showed himself to be ruthless as well. He'll be appointing the next coach with his eyes wide open. He'll know appointing Pelach is a gamble. Pep isn't available, so every other managerial appointment is. We've tried the solid Championship type (Rowatt), those with recent promotions on their CVs (Jones, Niell and Schumaker) and the wise old head (O'Niell). So he's decided to roll the dice. He'll get blamed if it doesn't work (along with JC) and the new coach will be a star if it does. It's the way of the world. Spot on. For how many years how many posts have said that we "aren't ruthless enough," that we hold onto managers too long etc.? I've even said it. So now Walters as DOF/Manager goes and does his job. Started last year by issuing a rallying call that worked. People on here made fun of that. Now getting labelled as a "bully" an interloper etc. One thing's clear, he has balls. The problem I have with labelling Walters as a "failure" or "bully" is that there are people on here already writing off the new manager with no factual basis even before he even moves his stuff in. Others are already after Walters' scalp. There's nobody on here that is privy to internal conversations/arguments/whatever has gone on. There's few on here with any idea of how the players are or are not responding to direction. It's all taking vague statements and building up conspiracies based on rumor. As soon as we lose a game, it'll turn into Somalia on this message board. If we win - Nirvana. Either way and in reality - we won't know until the season plays out. I liked Schu, still do. Kept thinking that at some point it was going to click. The club thought so too, which is why they didn't make a move in the Summer. But clearly there was some sort of debate/disagreement over club direction once this season started. There could have been a bust-up - well hell, if there WAS, then at least they cared enough to have the bust-up! Oxford was a terrible event. Instead of sitting on their hands, the club made a decision that this wasn't working. And we were told that this decision was made AFTER Walters discussed it with Coates. Could this be a mistake? Sure! Any time you change HC/Managers it's possible, maybe even likely. But I can't call it a success or failure until we get the guy in and he gets a few games under his belt. Then we land our first HC target, going for someone different as opposed to getting in a bidding war on one of the usual retreads and dire football addicts available. So here he is - that "foreign" HC that several have called for. We didn't blow it like we did with QSF then hire "one of the others available." We didn't bring in a dinosaur who will bore us to death. Young players and young coach, mistakes will be made and Pelach doesn't seem to be the type to ignore lessons learned. I'm both excited for this and sympathetic for Steven Schumacher. But I'm not going to go on full warpath calling for the Coates to be drummed out of Stoke and Walters run off. At least they've made a decision - something that the club has been loathe to do for the past several years. It's shown me that the club DOES care how well or poor we do and they're now willing to make hard decisions when necessary. JW received his marching orders and carried them out, admitting that "it was a hard decision." As shocking as that decision was - I have no evidence to be jumping all over Walters or JC at this point. Indeed, it's the way of the world and the way that professional sport goes sometimes.
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Post by jokker on Sept 18, 2024 15:43:26 GMT
I hate the DoF/ Head Coach model. It allows the DoF to hide and blame the Head Coach. This time its Walters appointment of an untried unknown that puts him directly in the firing line. I hope it works out for all our sakes but if it doesn't then Walters must accept the blame and either leave or be sacked. Sounds harsh but I think its only fair DOFs don't tend to get sacked. They're the bosses, holding things together, responsible for long term strategies, the direct line to chairmen who don't know about football. I'll qualify it a little. Some DOFs have been sacked, but it's usually as a result of a business model not working, it's not result based. So even if Pélach loses the next 20 matches and is sacked, by jw of course, it doesn't follow that he has to go as well.
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 18, 2024 15:46:58 GMT
I hate the DoF/ Head Coach model. It allows the DoF to hide and blame the Head Coach. This time its Walters appointment of an untried unknown that puts him directly in the firing line. I hope it works out for all our sakes but if it doesn't then Walters must accept the blame and either leave or be sacked. Sounds harsh but I think its only fair DOFs don't tend to get sacked. They're the bosses, holding things together, responsible for long term strategies, the direct line to chairmen who don't know about football. I'll qualify it a little. Some DOFs have been sacked, but it's usually as a result of a business model not working, it's not result based. So even if Pélach loses the next 20 matches and is sacked, by jw of course, it doesn't follow that he has to go as well. As you say some DoFs do get sacked and like it or not inexperienced Walters has put his job on the line. Its entirely on him
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Post by senojbor on Sept 18, 2024 15:49:31 GMT
Walters has gone though the floor in my estimation.
Stabbed SS in the back before we won 5-0 at Boro and winning at Plymouth.
Stoke fans turn on a sixpence and he will have to hope it improves things.
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Post by HarryTheHat on Sept 18, 2024 15:58:05 GMT
Jon Walters showed his character as a player - highly committed, honest, reliable and tough. He knows football at this level inside out and is well suited to his present role. He's now showed himself to be ruthless as well. He'll be appointing the next coach with his eyes wide open. He'll know appointing Pelach is a gamble. Pep isn't available, so every other managerial appointment is. We've tried the solid Championship type (Rowatt), those with recent promotions on their CVs (Jones, Niell and Schumaker) and the wise old head (O'Niell). So he's decided to roll the dice. He'll get blamed if it doesn't work (along with JC) and the new coach will be a star if it does. It's the way of the world. Spot on. For how many years how many posts have said that we "aren't ruthless enough," that we hold onto managers too long etc.? I've even said it. So now Walters as DOF/Manager goes and does his job. Started last year by issuing a rallying call that worked. People on here made fun of that. Now getting labelled as a "bully" an interloper etc. One thing's clear, he has balls. The problem I have with labelling Walters as a "failure" or "bully" is that there are people on here already writing off the new manager with no factual basis even before he even moves his stuff in. Others are already after Walters' scalp. There's nobody on here that is privy to internal conversations/arguments/whatever has gone on. There's few on here with any idea of how the players are or are not responding to direction. It's all taking vague statements and building up conspiracies based on rumor. As soon as we lose a game, it'll turn into Somalia on this message board. If we win - Nirvana. Either way and in reality - we won't know until the season plays out. I liked Schu, still do. Kept thinking that at some point it was going to click. The club thought so too, which is why they didn't make a move in the Summer. But clearly there was some sort of debate/disagreement over club direction once this season started. There could have been a bust-up - well hell, if there WAS, then at least they cared enough to have the bust-up! Oxford was a terrible event. Instead of sitting on their hands, the club made a decision that this wasn't working. And we were told that this decision was made AFTER Walters discussed it with Coates. Could this be a mistake? Sure! Any time you change HC/Managers it's possible, maybe even likely. But I can't call it a success or failure until we get the guy in and he gets a few games under his belt. Then we land our first HC target, going for someone different as opposed to getting in a bidding war on one of the usual retreads and dire football addicts available. So here he is - that "foreign" HC that several have called for. We didn't blow it like we did with QSF then hire "one of the others available." We didn't bring in a dinosaur who will bore us to death. Young players and young coach, mistakes will be made and Pelach doesn't seem to be the type to ignore lessons learned. I'm both excited for this and sympathetic for Steven Schumacher. But I'm not going to go on full warpath calling for the Coates to be drummed out of Stoke and Walters run off. At least they've made a decision - something that the club has been loathe to do for the past several years. It's shown me that the club DOES care how well or poor we do and they're now willing to make hard decisions when necessary. JW received his marching orders and carried them out, admitting that "it was a hard decision." As shocking as that decision was - I have no evidence to be jumping all over Walters or JC at this point. Indeed, it's the way of the world and the way that professional sport goes sometimes. Say what you like about SJW, he certainly takes no $hit............ Goooarn Jon
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 18, 2024 16:00:12 GMT
There is a reason plc and large co baords have non execs to emsure all big decusikns are bakanced and well thouht through . Ceo,s are undertandably notoruously and understandably impatient but i csnt helps feeking ojr boazroom reemins short on balance Having been in the role of a non-exec and participated in sacking a CEO I am still of the opinion SJW has put his head on the chopping block He and John made the decision but John owns the club so stays regardless
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 18, 2024 16:16:45 GMT
I wonder if Alex Morris was promoted to be a mole in camp when he became a coach for the first team... Alex the mole Morris. Walters moved him up not long after getting into power
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 18, 2024 16:18:06 GMT
There is a reason plc and large co baords have non execs to emsure all big decusikns are bakanced and well thouht through . Ceo,s are undertandably notoruously and understandably impatient but i csnt helps feeking ojr boazroom reemins short on balance Having been in the role of a non-exec and participated in sacking a CEO I am still of the opinion SJW has put his head on the chopping block He and John made the decision but John owns the club so stays regardless Of course he has. It’s called accountability. Whether people agree or not with decisions made by SJW he’ll accept that he might fall on his sword. Credit where credit is due rings a bell. People can’t have it both ways when criticising decisions not made and when decisions are made. My only hope is that it all goes well for Stoke City and us the Supporters.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 18, 2024 16:19:03 GMT
I wonder if Alex Morris was promoted to be a mole in camp when he became a coach for the first team... Alex the mole Morris. Walters moved him up not long after getting into power For crying out loud………🙄🙄
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 18, 2024 16:24:12 GMT
Having been in the role of a non-exec and participated in sacking a CEO I am still of the opinion SJW has put his head on the chopping block He and John made the decision but John owns the club so stays regardless Of course he has. It’s called accountability. Whether people agree or not with decisions made by SJW he’ll accept that he might fall on his sword. Credit where credit is due rings a bell. People can’t have it both ways when criticising decisions not made and when decisions are made. My only hope is that it all goes well for Stoke City and us the Supporters. Same here, I hope its a brilliant decision, can't see that mediocre will suffice so anything less will get panned. Friday is going to be interesting, yes I know it isn't his team and all the quite reasonable excuses but this is Stoke
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Post by dirtclod on Sept 18, 2024 16:34:49 GMT
Spot on. For how many years how many posts have said that we "aren't ruthless enough," that we hold onto managers too long etc.? I've even said it. So now Walters as DOF/Manager goes and does his job. Started last year by issuing a rallying call that worked. People on here made fun of that. Now getting labelled as a "bully" an interloper etc. One thing's clear, he has balls. The problem I have with labelling Walters as a "failure" or "bully" is that there are people on here already writing off the new manager with no factual basis even before he even moves his stuff in. Others are already after Walters' scalp. There's nobody on here that is privy to internal conversations/arguments/whatever has gone on. There's few on here with any idea of how the players are or are not responding to direction. It's all taking vague statements and building up conspiracies based on rumor. As soon as we lose a game, it'll turn into Somalia on this message board. If we win - Nirvana. Either way and in reality - we won't know until the season plays out. I liked Schu, still do. Kept thinking that at some point it was going to click. The club thought so too, which is why they didn't make a move in the Summer. But clearly there was some sort of debate/disagreement over club direction once this season started. There could have been a bust-up - well hell, if there WAS, then at least they cared enough to have the bust-up! Oxford was a terrible event. Instead of sitting on their hands, the club made a decision that this wasn't working. And we were told that this decision was made AFTER Walters discussed it with Coates. Could this be a mistake? Sure! Any time you change HC/Managers it's possible, maybe even likely. But I can't call it a success or failure until we get the guy in and he gets a few games under his belt. Then we land our first HC target, going for someone different as opposed to getting in a bidding war on one of the usual retreads and dire football addicts available. So here he is - that "foreign" HC that several have called for. We didn't blow it like we did with QSF then hire "one of the others available." We didn't bring in a dinosaur who will bore us to death. Young players and young coach, mistakes will be made and Pelach doesn't seem to be the type to ignore lessons learned. I'm both excited for this and sympathetic for Steven Schumacher. But I'm not going to go on full warpath calling for the Coates to be drummed out of Stoke and Walters run off. At least they've made a decision - something that the club has been loathe to do for the past several years. It's shown me that the club DOES care how well or poor we do and they're now willing to make hard decisions when necessary. JW received his marching orders and carried them out, admitting that "it was a hard decision." As shocking as that decision was - I have no evidence to be jumping all over Walters or JC at this point. Indeed, it's the way of the world and the way that professional sport goes sometimes. Say what you like about SJW, he certainly takes no $hit............ Goooarn JonHe showed a LOT more restraint than I would have! But yeah, literally takes no $hit!
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