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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 6:45:16 GMT
Seems a good signing to me. He has the necessary experience and contacts. He has a good base to build from with a talented core of young players, unlike every other season since relegation. A key issue for me in signing players is not just talent, but getting players who are committed to the club, which loans aren't, and have the right character/attitude. Pulis was sound when he signed players and signed few wasters, apart from that MF guy we had to buy to get Crouch. Since Pulis we have signed loads of wasters lacking commitment apart from a few we brought in last summer. But if you sign 19 players, odds are you will sign a few good ones! We have a talented pool of young players, unlike every other season because of the recruitment model from last season but hey it’s a great idea to ditch it. Pulis wasted loads of money on shit players and ones he didn’t know what to do with. His idea of football was pretty fucking niche.
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Post by mamathestriker on Jun 5, 2024 7:13:25 GMT
Seems a good signing to me. He has the necessary experience and contacts. He has a good base to build from with a talented core of young players, unlike every other season since relegation. A key issue for me in signing players is not just talent, but getting players who are committed to the club, which loans aren't, and have the right character/attitude. Pulis was sound when he signed players and signed few wasters, apart from that MF guy we had to buy to get Crouch. Since Pulis we have signed loads of wasters lacking commitment apart from a few we brought in last summer. But if you sign 19 players, odds are you will sign a few good ones! We have a talented pool of young players, unlike every other season because of the recruitment model from last season but hey it’s a great idea to ditch it. Pulis wasted loads of money on shit players and ones he didn’t know what to do with. His idea of football was pretty fucking niche. The point is TP got far more right than wrong, his signings overall instilled the right culture. And that niche football you talk about? The niche football that took us to the top flight, easily stayed there, built foundations, got to an FA Cup final and Europe? I'd settle for another version of niche rather than mainstream!
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 8:58:29 GMT
We have a talented pool of young players, unlike every other season because of the recruitment model from last season but hey it’s a great idea to ditch it. Pulis wasted loads of money on shit players and ones he didn’t know what to do with. His idea of football was pretty fucking niche. The point is TP got far more right than wrong, his signings overall instilled the right culture. And that niche football you talk about? The niche football that took us to the top flight, easily stayed there, built foundations, got to an FA Cup final and Europe? I'd settle for another version of niche rather than mainstream! He was Marmite. It doesn’t come as a shock to me that some people liked him. It always seems to come as a shock to them that a lot of people didn’t like him even though it was quite obvious at the time.
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 5, 2024 9:12:40 GMT
I think what's clear is Walter's wanted an experienced head in the role, to help him along given he's basically learning on the job.
Unfortunately because we made Jared the HOR last season, his first crack at the head role he's been collateral damage. If indeed he was a bit of a maverick etc, he'd probably be perfect to work within the set up as a lead analyst/scout but he'd never take a demotion at Stoke, why would he.
It's just unfortunate.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 10:17:37 GMT
I think what's clear is Walter's wanted an experienced head in the role, to help him along given he's basically learning on the job. Unfortunately because we made Jared the HOR last season, his first crack at the head role he's been collateral damage. If indeed he was a bit of a maverick etc, he'd probably be perfect to work within the set up as a lead analyst/scout but he'd never take a demotion at Stoke, why would he. It's just unfortunate. I think what’s clear is that we’ve just got rid of the only bloke who provided us with any positives from last season. Whether that’s because Walter’s needs his hand holding or because of a conflict of views I don’t think is so clear at all. We seem to have moved from the widest possible world wide hunt for players to a primarily domestic focus which had served us so poorly previously. I suppose you either thought the direction of travel was right or wrong and so are either positive or disappointed with the change of personel and market focus doesn’t take much guessing I’m disappointed.
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Post by gingerninja on Jun 5, 2024 10:20:09 GMT
Let's see if we revert to all domestic this window, before we judge. The link to South Korea suggests not, but in good old oatcake fashion, let's decide it's a crap appointment, a regressive step, without any proof.
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 5, 2024 10:22:07 GMT
I think what's clear is Walter's wanted an experienced head in the role, to help him along given he's basically learning on the job. Unfortunately because we made Jared the HOR last season, his first crack at the head role he's been collateral damage. If indeed he was a bit of a maverick etc, he'd probably be perfect to work within the set up as a lead analyst/scout but he'd never take a demotion at Stoke, why would he. It's just unfortunate. I think what’s clear is that we’ve just got rid of the only bloke who provided us with any positives from last season. Whether that’s because Walter’s needs his hand holding or because of a conflict of views I don’t think is so clear at all. We seem to have moved from the widest possible world wide hunt for players to a primarily domestic focus which had served us so poorly previously. I suppose you either thought the direction of travel was right or wrong and so are either positive or disappointed with the change of personel and market focus doesn’t take much guessing I’m disappointed. I'm reserving judgement on our focus until the end of the window. The link to the south korean and the swiss player just yesterday suggest we haven't switched solely to domestic markets but only time will tell. Like I said above, in an ideal world we'd have kept Dublin on, in a lesser role but assuming he'd not have accepted this and rightly so. It's a massive shame he's gone but until the window closes we can't really judge can we. The positive is, the foreign links are still happening and surely Walters, Schuey and Darnborough can see our three most valuable assets right now are Bae, Burger and Million.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 10:37:43 GMT
I think what’s clear is that we’ve just got rid of the only bloke who provided us with any positives from last season. Whether that’s because Walter’s needs his hand holding or because of a conflict of views I don’t think is so clear at all. We seem to have moved from the widest possible world wide hunt for players to a primarily domestic focus which had served us so poorly previously. I suppose you either thought the direction of travel was right or wrong and so are either positive or disappointed with the change of personel and market focus doesn’t take much guessing I’m disappointed. I'm reserving judgement on our focus until the end of the window. The link to the south korean and the swiss player just yesterday suggest we haven't switched solely to domestic markets but only time will tell. Like I said above, in an ideal world we'd have kept Dublin on, in a lesser role but assuming he'd not have accepted this and rightly so. It's a massive shame he's gone but until the window closes we can't really judge can we. The positive is, the foreign links are still happening and surely Walters, Schuey and Darnborough can see our three most valuable assets right now are Bae, Burger and Million. I never said our focus had solely swithched to the domestic market, I chose the word primarily to reflect that. We’ve seen the value in the worldwide market and for some illogical reason decided the domestic market is where our focus should be. Lack of consistent thinking and beliefs is about the only consistent feature of JC tenure.
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Post by mamathestriker on Jun 5, 2024 10:41:45 GMT
I'm reserving judgement on our focus until the end of the window. The link to the south korean and the swiss player just yesterday suggest we haven't switched solely to domestic markets but only time will tell. Like I said above, in an ideal world we'd have kept Dublin on, in a lesser role but assuming he'd not have accepted this and rightly so. It's a massive shame he's gone but until the window closes we can't really judge can we. The positive is, the foreign links are still happening and surely Walters, Schuey and Darnborough can see our three most valuable assets right now are Bae, Burger and Million. I never said our focus had solely swithched to the domestic market, I chose the word primarily to reflect that. We’ve seen the value in the worldwide market and for some illogical reason decided the domestic market is where our focus should be. Lack of consistent thinking and beliefs is about the only consistent feature of JC tenure. Unless you sit in meetings with JW and SS then you won't have a clue what our transfer strategy is. For all we know it's to build on what Dublin "achieved" while having a firmer handle on the domestic market too. The scout who recommended Junho to us is still very prominent at the club apparently, even though some like to portray it that it was solely down to Dublin.
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 5, 2024 10:44:20 GMT
I'm reserving judgement on our focus until the end of the window. The link to the south korean and the swiss player just yesterday suggest we haven't switched solely to domestic markets but only time will tell. Like I said above, in an ideal world we'd have kept Dublin on, in a lesser role but assuming he'd not have accepted this and rightly so. It's a massive shame he's gone but until the window closes we can't really judge can we. The positive is, the foreign links are still happening and surely Walters, Schuey and Darnborough can see our three most valuable assets right now are Bae, Burger and Million. I never said our focus had solely swithched to the domestic market, I chose the word primarily to reflect that. We’ve seen the value in the worldwide market and for some illogical reason decided the domestic market is where our focus should be. Lack of consistent thinking and beliefs is about the only consistent feature of JC tenure. Solely or primarily, you have no evidence at all to back that up.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 10:49:23 GMT
I never said our focus had solely swithched to the domestic market, I chose the word primarily to reflect that. We’ve seen the value in the worldwide market and for some illogical reason decided the domestic market is where our focus should be. Lack of consistent thinking and beliefs is about the only consistent feature of JC tenure. Unless you sit in meetings with JW and SS then you won't have a clue what our transfer strategy is. For all we know it's to build on what Dublin "achieved" while having a firmer handle on the domestic market too. The scout who recommended Junho to us is still very prominent at the club apparently, even though some like to portray it that it was solely down to Dublin. The profile of player we were signing clearly changed significantly after JD’s arrival (once you weed out the transfers that were clearly manager/HC driven) so who is this scout? How long has he been with Stoke?
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 10:52:39 GMT
I never said our focus had solely swithched to the domestic market, I chose the word primarily to reflect that. We’ve seen the value in the worldwide market and for some illogical reason decided the domestic market is where our focus should be. Lack of consistent thinking and beliefs is about the only consistent feature of JC tenure. Solely or primarily, you have no evidence at all to back that up. The links have so far been primarily domestic. The new HoR has been primarily focused on the domestic market in his previous jobs. There is evidence it’s just whether you want to see it or sit on the fence until the transfer window closes.
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Post by questionable on Jun 5, 2024 11:07:05 GMT
At the end of the day he’ll be working with our scouts and not Hulls, possibly he could employ Hulls in the future who knows, networks will still be there raring to go no doubt given the class they’ve added
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 5, 2024 11:15:25 GMT
Solely or primarily, you have no evidence at all to back that up. The links have so far been primarily domestic. The new HoR has been primarily focused on the domestic market in his previous jobs. There is evidence it’s just whether you want to see it or sit on the fence until the transfer window closes. They haven't been primarily domestic at all, I'd say it was close to 50/50. we were linked with two foreign players just yestederday! If you read the article in the Sentinel, Darnborough was focused domestically under the old Hull owners then when the new owners came in there was a shift to a more widespread focus. That direction came from above him though based on the preference of the owners. So the evidence you're choosing to see is being manipulated to fit your narrative and not actually focussing on the facts we've been presented by people more in the know than ourselves.
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Post by lordb on Jun 5, 2024 11:20:55 GMT
Solely or primarily, you have no evidence at all to back that up. The links have so far been primarily domestic. The new HoR has been primarily focused on the domestic market in his previous jobs. There is evidence it’s just whether you want to see it or sit on the fence until the transfer window closes. The links this time last year were primarily domestic for the same reason : it's the time of year where the free agents are being picked up there have been links with players, young seemingly exciting players, from abroad too You appear determined that the transfer policy is being switched from a foreign player utopia to ab old school domestic players only approach I think that's entirely in your head You can carry on though, I'm going to to see what they actually do
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 12:44:27 GMT
The links have so far been primarily domestic. The new HoR has been primarily focused on the domestic market in his previous jobs. There is evidence it’s just whether you want to see it or sit on the fence until the transfer window closes. The links this time last year were primarily domestic for the same reason : it's the time of year where the free agents are being picked up there have been links with players, young seemingly exciting players, from abroad too You appear determined that the transfer policy is being switched from a foreign player utopia to ab old school domestic players only approach I think that's entirely in your head You can carry on though, I'm going to to see what they actually do I’ve never mentioned old school domestic only in fact I went out of my way to avoid it only and primarily don’t mean the same thing. The links and numerous articles have indicated a more domestic focus. The links at this time last year were domestic as JD was still not employed by Stoke this time last year. The majority of European and World football also have players coming out of contract at this time of year it’s not unique to the UK therefore your point doesn’t make any sense. I’m not determined that anything. I’ve already said I’ll judge each action on its merits. Obviously I think there’s enough indication to suggest what I say not how you try to spin what I’ve said. I sense a significant change in direction, I wouldn’t be in favour of it and don’t mind saying so.
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Post by mattador78 on Jun 5, 2024 12:55:06 GMT
What some people aren’t grasping is whatever reports our previous HOR passed over we still have hence the Korean and Swiss links. Also if you look at the new HOR previous emplaoyer and his time there he’s not just a British only guy based on their respective recruitment at the time.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 5, 2024 12:58:37 GMT
I'm reserving judgement on our focus until the end of the window. The link to the south korean and the swiss player just yesterday suggest we haven't switched solely to domestic markets but only time will tell. Like I said above, in an ideal world we'd have kept Dublin on, in a lesser role but assuming he'd not have accepted this and rightly so. It's a massive shame he's gone but until the window closes we can't really judge can we. The positive is, the foreign links are still happening and surely Walters, Schuey and Darnborough can see our three most valuable assets right now are Bae, Burger and Million. I never said our focus had solely swithched to the domestic market, I chose the word primarily to reflect that. We’ve seen the value in the worldwide market and for some illogical reason decided the domestic market is where our focus should be. Lack of consistent thinking and beliefs is about the only consistent feature of JC tenure. Isn’t the optimum to sign the best available players? Irrespective of their nationality. If they’re in our price range and tick the boxes it doesn’t really matter if they’re from Seoul or Stone. Walters strikes me as quite pragmatic. He likes hard workers and character. He’s obviously seen both those characteristics in Jun Ho and Million so I doubt he’ll be averse to signing more like them. Equally alarm bells ring when you hear stories about Mmaee and see the struggles Jojic has had. Balance is usually the best approach. Just get good players in and the rest should be straightforward.
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Post by ceejays on Jun 5, 2024 13:09:51 GMT
My take on a HOR is their performance is measured to an extent by sell on profits . Brighton have sold Caicedo Trossard Cucarella McAllister and others while Mitoma Adingra and others clearly have sell on value. This was where Jared Dublin was headed albeit a couple of duds too . But now we seem to have ditched that strategy. Brentford too had this model and sold Watkins Maupay Hogan That muppet we bought and others . Toney too has sell on value . From what I can see LD in his 7 years at Hull perhaps only Bowen ? It would be interesting for someone to collate his sell on successes. That’s a good barometer to judge him by ? Was that Peacock guy sold to Brentford one of his ?
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 13:29:08 GMT
I never said our focus had solely swithched to the domestic market, I chose the word primarily to reflect that. We’ve seen the value in the worldwide market and for some illogical reason decided the domestic market is where our focus should be. Lack of consistent thinking and beliefs is about the only consistent feature of JC tenure. Isn’t the optimum to sign the best available players? Irrespective of their nationality. If they’re in our price range and tick the boxes it doesn’t really matter if they’re from Seoul or Stone. Walters strikes me as quite pragmatic. He likes hard workers and character. He’s obviously seen both those characteristics in Jun Ho and Million so I doubt he’ll be averse to signing more like them. Equally alarm bells ring when you hear stories about Mmaee and see the struggles Jojic has had. Balance is usually the best approach. Just get good players in and the rest should be straightforward. I’m not adverse to domestic players. The keeper ( I know he’s foreign but domestic too) seems on the face of it a coup and very good value but the domestic market is typically very bad value I just don’t think it should be our main focus. I don’t really get the point about Mmaee and Jojic don’t really know what percentage of transfers you expect to be a rip roaring success. I’m pretty sure Mmaee’s antics would never have come to a head if he was banging them in left right and centre. I guess I look at things differently, if you sign 6 players for £10M and 1 of them ends up being wort £20M that’s successful recruitment I think what we bought in last season is worth considerably more than we spent on it therefore it was successful. I don’t think we finished 17th so it wasn’t successful as such I think last seasons recruitment model deserved at least another two years. I suppose a lot depends on how enthusiastic you are about JW I’d be the first to admit I’m very sceptical.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 5, 2024 13:35:38 GMT
Isn’t the optimum to sign the best available players? Irrespective of their nationality. If they’re in our price range and tick the boxes it doesn’t really matter if they’re from Seoul or Stone. Walters strikes me as quite pragmatic. He likes hard workers and character. He’s obviously seen both those characteristics in Jun Ho and Million so I doubt he’ll be averse to signing more like them. Equally alarm bells ring when you hear stories about Mmaee and see the struggles Jojic has had. Balance is usually the best approach. Just get good players in and the rest should be straightforward. I’m not adverse to domestic players. The keeper ( I know he’s foreign but domestic too) seems on the face of it a coup and very good value but the domestic market is typically very bad value I just don’t think it should be our main focus. I don’t really get the point about Mmaee and Jojic don’t really know what percentage of transfers you expect to be a rip roaring success. I’m pretty sure Mmaee’s antics would never have come to a head if he was banging them in left right and centre. I guess I look at things differently, if you sign 6 players for £10M and 1 of them ends up being wort £20M that’s successful recruitment I think what we bought in last season is worth considerably more than we spent on it therefore it was successful. I don’t think we finished 17th so it wasn’t successful as such I think last seasons recruitment model deserved at least another two years. I suppose a lot depends on how enthusiastic you are about JW I’d be the first to admit I’m very sceptical. You’d be happy with a 1 in 6 strike rate as far as signings go? Surely the point is to improve our league position first and foremost? We’re not exactly short of money. I genuinely don’t care where our players come from providing we improve on the pitch. Interesting if you look at Ipswich and their phenomenal success, I’m not sure they exploited the foreign market at all?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 5, 2024 14:23:35 GMT
Isn’t the optimum to sign the best available players? Irrespective of their nationality. If they’re in our price range and tick the boxes it doesn’t really matter if they’re from Seoul or Stone. Walters strikes me as quite pragmatic. He likes hard workers and character. He’s obviously seen both those characteristics in Jun Ho and Million so I doubt he’ll be averse to signing more like them. Equally alarm bells ring when you hear stories about Mmaee and see the struggles Jojic has had. Balance is usually the best approach. Just get good players in and the rest should be straightforward. I’m not adverse to domestic players. The keeper ( I know he’s foreign but domestic too) seems on the face of it a coup and very good value but the domestic market is typically very bad value I just don’t think it should be our main focus. I don’t really get the point about Mmaee and Jojic don’t really know what percentage of transfers you expect to be a rip roaring success. I’m pretty sure Mmaee’s antics would never have come to a head if he was banging them in left right and centre. I guess I look at things differently, if you sign 6 players for £10M and 1 of them ends up being wort £20M that’s successful recruitment I think what we bought in last season is worth considerably more than we spent on it therefore it was successful. I don’t think we finished 17th so it wasn’t successful as such I think last seasons recruitment model deserved at least another two years. I suppose a lot depends on how enthusiastic you are about JW I’d be the first to admit I’m very sceptical. We exploited both the foreign and the domestic markets last season and we will do the same this season. The domestic signings were relatively poor and seemed to be the choice of the manager/HC so the fact that we have brought in someone with a good understanding of the domestic market is a good thing and widens the pool beyond the set of players who the HC has worked with. There is also a down side to the foreign market. The Championship is very physical and intense and the majority of foreign players take quite a long time to adjust. You could see the potential in the likes of Bae and Burger from day one but it took them half a season for them to really impact games and by the end of the season they were running on empty. Pack the team with a new batch of foreign players and we will have the same issue next season. It looks to me like Walters and Schumacher want to have a tilt at promotion next season and to have any chance of doing that we will have to hit the ground running which means having a core of battle hardened players from day one. Build a squad around a core of foreign players new to this league and we are looking at a mid table finish at best.
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Post by skip on Jun 5, 2024 14:29:06 GMT
I’m not adverse to domestic players. The keeper ( I know he’s foreign but domestic too) seems on the face of it a coup and very good value but the domestic market is typically very bad value I just don’t think it should be our main focus. I don’t really get the point about Mmaee and Jojic don’t really know what percentage of transfers you expect to be a rip roaring success. I’m pretty sure Mmaee’s antics would never have come to a head if he was banging them in left right and centre. I guess I look at things differently, if you sign 6 players for £10M and 1 of them ends up being wort £20M that’s successful recruitment I think what we bought in last season is worth considerably more than we spent on it therefore it was successful. I don’t think we finished 17th so it wasn’t successful as such I think last seasons recruitment model deserved at least another two years. I suppose a lot depends on how enthusiastic you are about JW I’d be the first to admit I’m very sceptical. You’d be happy with a 1 in 6 strike rate as far as signings go? Surely the point is to improve our league position first and foremost? We’re not exactly short of money. I genuinely don’t care where our players come from providing we improve on the pitch. Interesting if you look at Ipswich and their phenomenal success, I’m not sure they exploited the foreign market at all? I recall my nipper saying Ipswich were the only team in the Champo who fielded an all domestic XI this year (not every game, but I think they did at some point).
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Post by anchorman on Jun 5, 2024 14:36:47 GMT
At the end of the day they can come from Stoke On Trent (bonus!) Timbuktu or the moon for all I care as long as they’re good characters and good players. If they happen to all come from overseas or here is completely immaterial.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 5, 2024 14:39:44 GMT
You’d be happy with a 1 in 6 strike rate as far as signings go? Surely the point is to improve our league position first and foremost? We’re not exactly short of money. I genuinely don’t care where our players come from providing we improve on the pitch. Interesting if you look at Ipswich and their phenomenal success, I’m not sure they exploited the foreign market at all? I recall my nipper saying Ipswich were the only team in the Champo who fielded an all domestic XI this year (not every game, but I think they did at some point). Remind me of the Macari team that got promoted and nearly rode the wave into the Prem. And before someone gets on their high horse, yes I know that was before “modern football “ was invented.
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 5, 2024 14:41:28 GMT
I recall my nipper saying Ipswich were the only team in the Champo who fielded an all domestic XI this year (not every game, but I think they did at some point). Remind me of the Macari team that got promoted and nearly rode the wave into the Prem. And before someone gets on their high horse, yes I know that was before “modern football “ was invented. The team that got promoted didn't really nearly ride the wave in to the Prem did it, it was 3 season's later we reached the play offs and we had a stint of Joe Jordan as manager in between too.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 5, 2024 14:42:28 GMT
Remind me of the Macari team that got promoted and nearly rode the wave into the Prem. And before someone gets on their high horse, yes I know that was before “modern football “ was invented. The team that got promoted didn't really nearly ride the wave in to the Prem did it, it was 3 season's later we reached the play offs and we had a stint of Joe Jordan as manager in between too. Apologies. It was. When macari came back.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 5, 2024 14:50:37 GMT
Remind me of the Macari team that got promoted and nearly rode the wave into the Prem. And before someone gets on their high horse, yes I know that was before “modern football “ was invented. The team that got promoted didn't really nearly ride the wave in to the Prem did it, it was 3 season's later we reached the play offs and we had a stint of Joe Jordan as manager in between too. Just had a look and we weren’t far off the play offs….4 points. But yeah I had got a bit confused with his second coming. I do remember beating Forest away early doors though and thinking we might actually do it.
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 5, 2024 14:55:56 GMT
The team that got promoted didn't really nearly ride the wave in to the Prem did it, it was 3 season's later we reached the play offs and we had a stint of Joe Jordan as manager in between too. Just had a look and we weren’t far off the play offs….4 points. But yeah I had got a bit confused with his second coming. I do remember beating Forest away early doors though and thinking we might actually do it. Tbf it's very easy to forget the Jordan era too!
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 15:06:40 GMT
I’m not adverse to domestic players. The keeper ( I know he’s foreign but domestic too) seems on the face of it a coup and very good value but the domestic market is typically very bad value I just don’t think it should be our main focus. I don’t really get the point about Mmaee and Jojic don’t really know what percentage of transfers you expect to be a rip roaring success. I’m pretty sure Mmaee’s antics would never have come to a head if he was banging them in left right and centre. I guess I look at things differently, if you sign 6 players for £10M and 1 of them ends up being wort £20M that’s successful recruitment I think what we bought in last season is worth considerably more than we spent on it therefore it was successful. I don’t think we finished 17th so it wasn’t successful as such I think last seasons recruitment model deserved at least another two years. I suppose a lot depends on how enthusiastic you are about JW I’d be the first to admit I’m very sceptical. You’d be happy with a 1 in 6 strike rate as far as signings go? Surely the point is to improve our league position first and foremost? We’re not exactly short of money. I genuinely don’t care where our players come from providing we improve on the pitch. Interesting if you look at Ipswich and their phenomenal success, I’m not sure they exploited the foreign market at all? I think that attitude of just wanting to challenge for promotion, be higher in the league without any beliefs or commitment to anything more comprehensive and strategic for the longer term is why we have been so unsuccessful just flip flopping from one thing to another with no consistency of thought or approach.
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