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Post by LGH87 on Jun 4, 2024 8:53:45 GMT
This line from the Sentinel piece worries me a bit: It's probably fair to say his role is slightly different under Acun Ilicali's tenure to what it was when the Allams ran the club. Since the takeover in January 2022, City have operated a more continental approach with how they conduct their transfer work and he's opted to move on.It's a hint towards a longer term change in philosophy at Stoke from what was a promising move into foreign markets to a more meat and potatoes British strategy. Not conclusive proof of course but worrying for me personally. I know Jared wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and some of his signings were poor, but the good signings were very good and that strategy would have surely been honed to limit the failures over time? Again, it's not to say you can't be successful looking at the domestic market but the quality players cost serious money at this level, and it is undoubtedly harder to get value for money. Something a non parachute money club simply has to get. The worry is you turn into Preston North End V2.0 quite quickly. I think it means continental approach as in the set up doesn't it, rather than targeting continental players? Although I thought that was the road we were going down with our set up tbh, with a Sporting Director & Head Coach so I'm not sure it makes sense. Let's face it, he's moved to be closer to home and for a pay rise. That's the real reason.
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Post by bolders on Jun 4, 2024 9:04:45 GMT
This line from the Sentinel piece worries me a bit: It's probably fair to say his role is slightly different under Acun Ilicali's tenure to what it was when the Allams ran the club. Since the takeover in January 2022, City have operated a more continental approach with how they conduct their transfer work and he's opted to move on.It's a hint towards a longer term change in philosophy at Stoke from what was a promising move into foreign markets to a more meat and potatoes British strategy. Not conclusive proof of course but worrying for me personally. I know Jared wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and some of his signings were poor, but the good signings were very good and that strategy would have surely been honed to limit the failures over time? Again, it's not to say you can't be successful looking at the domestic market but the quality players cost serious money at this level, and it is undoubtedly harder to get value for money. Something a non parachute money club simply has to get. The worry is you turn into Preston North End V2.0 quite quickly. He might not be comfortable with the continental way, that doesn’t solely translate as he doesn’t shop in the foreign leagues and only buys British. It might be the way operations are run he didn’t like.
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 4, 2024 9:21:44 GMT
This line from the Sentinel piece worries me a bit: It's probably fair to say his role is slightly different under Acun Ilicali's tenure to what it was when the Allams ran the club. Since the takeover in January 2022, City have operated a more continental approach with how they conduct their transfer work and he's opted to move on.It's a hint towards a longer term change in philosophy at Stoke from what was a promising move into foreign markets to a more meat and potatoes British strategy. Not conclusive proof of course but worrying for me personally. I know Jared wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and some of his signings were poor, but the good signings were very good and that strategy would have surely been honed to limit the failures over time? Again, it's not to say you can't be successful looking at the domestic market but the quality players cost serious money at this level, and it is undoubtedly harder to get value for money. Something a non parachute money club simply has to get. The worry is you turn into Preston North End V2.0 quite quickly. He might not be comfortable with the continental way, that doesn’t solely translate as he doesn’t shop in the foreign leagues and only buys British. It might be the way operations are run he didn’t like. I can only assume from stats and history. He joined Hull in time for the 17/18 season and between then and the takeover referred to in the Sentinel article that happened in 2022, he signed 69 players. Out of those 69 players just 7 were signed from abroad, with 2 of those 7 previously based in the UK. The worry is that out of those 7, pretty much all of them were a disaster. Post takeover they've signed 36 players with 13 from abroad - a clear step change. Two of those having previous UK experience. I'll back out of this conversation now because like most things recently I seem to be getting people's backs up (not you) because i'm not overly beaming with blind positivity about what I perceive to be totally unnecessary changes at our club. I genuinely hope he is a success regardless of what pond we end up fishing in, because we just simply need to improve our recruitment further from the green shoots of recovery we saw last season.
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Post by pavel on Jun 4, 2024 9:55:40 GMT
He might not be comfortable with the continental way, that doesn’t solely translate as he doesn’t shop in the foreign leagues and only buys British. It might be the way operations are run he didn’t like. I can only assume from stats and history. He joined Hull in time for the 17/18 season and between then and the takeover referred to in the Sentinel article that happened in 2022, he signed 69 players. Out of those 69 players just 7 were signed from abroad, with 2 of those 7 previously based in the UK. The worry is that out of those 7, pretty much all of them were a disaster. Post takeover they've signed 36 players with 13 from abroad - a clear step change. Two of those having previous UK experience. I'll back out of this conversation now because like most things recently I seem to be getting people's backs up (not you) because i'm not overly beaming with blind positivity about what I perceive to be totally unnecessary changes at our club. I genuinely hope he is a success regardless of what pond we end up fishing in, because we just simply need to improve our recruitment further from the green shoots of recovery we saw last season. I think blind optimism/positivity should be held in check until we see which way the wind is blowing, I was quite positive until this change and now I don’t know what to think. What I do know though is we are very good at shooting ourselves in the foot, I fear another sea change though, which could kill off those few green shoots you talk about. Let’s hope not and in reality we won’t know for quite a while.
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Post by thornestein on Jun 4, 2024 10:01:40 GMT
sounds like he did a decent job under difficult and changing circumstances, add in the high profile loans they managed to recruit too. Hopefully with our budget and data analysis he'll be able to guide a successful recruitment drive. will the high profile loans be down to him as surely the manager would already be aware of them
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 4, 2024 10:15:03 GMT
sounds like he did a decent job under difficult and changing circumstances, add in the high profile loans they managed to recruit too. Hopefully with our budget and data analysis he'll be able to guide a successful recruitment drive. will the high profile loans be down to him as surely the manager would already be aware of them Think it's been alluded that he has good contacts at big clubs.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 4, 2024 10:36:15 GMT
This line from the Sentinel piece worries me a bit: It's probably fair to say his role is slightly different under Acun Ilicali's tenure to what it was when the Allams ran the club. Since the takeover in January 2022, City have operated a more continental approach with how they conduct their transfer work and he's opted to move on.It's a hint towards a longer term change in philosophy at Stoke from what was a promising move into foreign markets to a more meat and potatoes British strategy. Not conclusive proof of course but worrying for me personally. I know Jared wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and some of his signings were poor, but the good signings were very good and that strategy would have surely been honed to limit the failures over time? Again, it's not to say you can't be successful looking at the domestic market but the quality players cost serious money at this level, and it is undoubtedly harder to get value for money. Something a non parachute money club simply has to get. The worry is you turn into Preston North End V2.0 quite quickly. Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off.
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Post by stantheman on Jun 4, 2024 10:42:51 GMT
This line from the Sentinel piece worries me a bit: It's probably fair to say his role is slightly different under Acun Ilicali's tenure to what it was when the Allams ran the club. Since the takeover in January 2022, City have operated a more continental approach with how they conduct their transfer work and he's opted to move on.It's a hint towards a longer term change in philosophy at Stoke from what was a promising move into foreign markets to a more meat and potatoes British strategy. Not conclusive proof of course but worrying for me personally. I know Jared wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and some of his signings were poor, but the good signings were very good and that strategy would have surely been honed to limit the failures over time? Again, it's not to say you can't be successful looking at the domestic market but the quality players cost serious money at this level, and it is undoubtedly harder to get value for money. Something a non parachute money club simply has to get. The worry is you turn into Preston North End V2.0 quite quickly. Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off. You're definitely related to BO
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jun 4, 2024 11:00:39 GMT
Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off. You're definitely related to BO BaconOatcake?
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Post by johan14 on Jun 4, 2024 11:00:48 GMT
Of signings made while Dublin was here about 33% were from foreign clubs, which worked out great timing with the visa change rule. Of Hull’s signings under Darnbrough about 20% were from foreign clubs. Last year we signed a ridiculous number of players and clearly not enough time was spent researching each and everyone in detail that SJW wants. But last year was an anomaly. With a stable model in place we could poss expect 6-7 players to sign in a given summer, so following Dublin’s stats that’s 2-3 from foreign clubs and Darnbrough’s it’s 1-2. Not a big difference and we’ve got to remember we can’t sign huge numbers from foreign clubs each year due to only having a certain number of spaces for players who don’t meet visa points system.
Also the role of Head of Recruitment is to find and recommend players to technical directors/managers to sign. Who knows how many of the Stoke or Hull signings were no 1 recommendations of the recruitment team and how many were ones the td/manager agreed to persue from the recommendations! Ultimately some work out, some won’t. Same for every club in football. The hull journo in Pete smiths article made a great point that clubs should be more transparent about this. It would be great if Pete smith could interview coomber and mama to get a better insight of their roles, how that’s changed during their time at the club and maybe the role they played in us signing a previous player! I really hope they both learned a lot from Dublin as it was exciting and would love us to continue to unearth 1-2 unknown gems each year (unrealistic, I know! But still…🤞) Hopefully the South Korean and Swiss links are signs of this. yes prob players identified by Dublin, but maybe it was coomber and maybe it was mama who recommended manhoef, we don’t know!
The thing with darnbrough is he seems popular and respected within the game; he’s recommended players from abroad and at home; has good contacts and eye for young premier league loans; has the experience that maybe SJW felt Dublin lacks for building recruitment depts and dealing with transfers. I take it that SJW felt that’s where he himself needed more support, so fair play for making a tough call to make a change and bring in someone who could help him.
Basically welcome to Stoke Lee and good luck. Everyone on this board hopes you’ll be a massive success 👍
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 4, 2024 11:00:49 GMT
This line from the Sentinel piece worries me a bit: It's probably fair to say his role is slightly different under Acun Ilicali's tenure to what it was when the Allams ran the club. Since the takeover in January 2022, City have operated a more continental approach with how they conduct their transfer work and he's opted to move on.It's a hint towards a longer term change in philosophy at Stoke from what was a promising move into foreign markets to a more meat and potatoes British strategy. Not conclusive proof of course but worrying for me personally. I know Jared wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and some of his signings were poor, but the good signings were very good and that strategy would have surely been honed to limit the failures over time? Again, it's not to say you can't be successful looking at the domestic market but the quality players cost serious money at this level, and it is undoubtedly harder to get value for money. Something a non parachute money club simply has to get. The worry is you turn into Preston North End V2.0 quite quickly. Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off. We recruited a barrow load of footballers and nearly got relegated. He should have gone with Martin.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 4, 2024 11:09:35 GMT
Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off. We recruited a barrow load of footballers and nearly got relegated. He should have gone with Martin. Many of which had the manager/HC fingerprints all over them. His deals had a much better success rate and were much better investments.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 4, 2024 11:28:17 GMT
Not happy with this.
Where’s TP? Or at least Huth???
SJW out.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 4, 2024 12:15:29 GMT
This line from the Sentinel piece worries me a bit: It's probably fair to say his role is slightly different under Acun Ilicali's tenure to what it was when the Allams ran the club. Since the takeover in January 2022, City have operated a more continental approach with how they conduct their transfer work and he's opted to move on.It's a hint towards a longer term change in philosophy at Stoke from what was a promising move into foreign markets to a more meat and potatoes British strategy. Not conclusive proof of course but worrying for me personally. I know Jared wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and some of his signings were poor, but the good signings were very good and that strategy would have surely been honed to limit the failures over time? Again, it's not to say you can't be successful looking at the domestic market but the quality players cost serious money at this level, and it is undoubtedly harder to get value for money. Something a non parachute money club simply has to get. The worry is you turn into Preston North End V2.0 quite quickly. Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off. While it's difficult to argue with the success rate of Jared's foreign signings, I wonder if his domestic signings were the problem especially our loans. Most of those seemed to be Neil led and we missed out on several good loans who chose to go to clubs who you would consider we should have been able to beat to a player. The prolonged chase of Junior which went on into January was not good and the fact that Hull beat us to Bidace was another failure. I take hope that the tweet about the Korean forward refers to the same scout who watched Bae so perhaps we still retain our foreign scouts.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 4, 2024 12:24:09 GMT
Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off. While it's difficult to argue with the success rate of Jared's foreign signings, I wonder if his domestic signings were the problem especially our loans. Most of those seemed to be Neil led and we missed out on several good loans who chose to go to clubs who you would consider we should have been able to beat to a player. The prolonged chase of Junior which went on into January was not good and the fact that Hull beat us to Bidace was another failure. I take hope that the tweet about the Korean forward refers to the same scout who watched Bae so perhaps we still retain our foreign scouts. Some strange logic going on there. Firstly Junior was a Summer signing at the end of August that seemed to depend on us selling Tymon for some irrational reason. I'm not sure what Bidace would have had to do with Jared, making the deals wasn't his role, identifying the players was. RM was the man who was responsible for tying up the deals, JD was not a negotiator of transfers deals.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 4, 2024 14:38:19 GMT
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jun 4, 2024 14:45:58 GMT
Darnbrough out
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Post by thischarmingmanc on Jun 4, 2024 14:48:13 GMT
Oh if the sentinel is reporting someones saying it must be true ...... Time will tell..... im cynical abut this move, I like Jareds approach and lst summers recruitment seemed the best we have had recently.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jun 4, 2024 14:58:40 GMT
It’s all a bit laughable really, it’s a collective approach from most clubs. These appointments are always seen as though they sit in a room on their own and do everything themselves. He won’t be much different to all the other ‘heads of recruitment’ chasing the same pool of players
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 4, 2024 15:19:10 GMT
While it's difficult to argue with the success rate of Jared's foreign signings, I wonder if his domestic signings were the problem especially our loans. Most of those seemed to be Neil led and we missed out on several good loans who chose to go to clubs who you would consider we should have been able to beat to a player. The prolonged chase of Junior which went on into January was not good and the fact that Hull beat us to Bidace was another failure. I take hope that the tweet about the Korean forward refers to the same scout who watched Bae so perhaps we still retain our foreign scouts. Some strange logic going on there. Firstly Junior was a Summer signing at the end of August that seemed to depend on us selling Tymon for some irrational reason. I'm not sure what Bidace would have had to do with Jared, making the deals wasn't his role, identifying the players was. RM was the man who was responsible for tying up the deals, JD was not a negotiator of transfers deals. Sorry, yes you are right but it did drag on and he was the only young English player brought in and I'm not sure he was a Jared suggestion as he was on the wish list before he started working for us. We also brought in Hoever in his position which seems to indicate that it wasn't going to happen. I fail to see what Tymon had to do with it as they play on different sides and again his replacement, or initially understudy, was another Neil suggestion. I know he wasn't involved in final negotiations or as you say tying things up but I'm sure Jared had a role in trying to persuade them to talk to us. The fact that many of our home bred transfers were ones that appear to be Neil's suggestions, I do wonder if there was a lack of home grown talent on Jared's list and the manager got frustrated by that and sorted it out himself. Also whilst he wouldn't have been involved in the final negotiations I feel part of his remit was to test the water and see how possible it would be for a transfer to happen both with the parent club and the player's agent. I don't think he presents a list of names from his database and then sits back during the transfer window doing nothing. There is plenty of reference to the new guy having good contacts and being successful at bringing players in to Hull. The two loans of Carvalho and Delap were far higher profile than any loans we made. I know we wouldn't have been in for Delap but I'm sure other clubs were and I'm sure there were other names who chose elsewhere rather than Stoke. And to be honest January was a joke. A goal keeper we'd tried to get before and yet again on loan, two of Schumacher's old players and no left back. What was Jared doing from September to December. Some of his players were great I agree but all of that were were foreign.
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Post by J-Roar on Jun 4, 2024 15:23:30 GMT
Not happy with this. Where’s TP? Or at least Huth??? SJW out. You're right. This fucking joker doesn't know the club..
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 4, 2024 15:39:29 GMT
While not averse to the overseas market looks like this guy is going to focus on battle hardened Championship players and prospects from the lower leagues. The problem with Neil and Schumacher is that they were clearly favouring players from the UK market that they already knew which is fishing in a very small pool. Jared brought in some gems but while you could see the potential from day one in the likes of Bae and Burger it took over half a season to fully adapt and consistently deliver. It looks like the plan is to hit the ground running this season with a core of players who know this league and I suspect the HC is going to have fewer of their picks coming through the door which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. So less than 1 year with some notable successes and we’re back to Brexit FC. Fuck me the mentality of this club. Errr...no. Darnborough has a record of bringing in overseas players AND he has a good knowledge of the UK market. You need both - the problem under Dublin was that the UK market was left to Neil and Schumacher who had/have a limited knowledge and tended to go for players they already knew.
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Post by senojbor on Jun 4, 2024 15:43:56 GMT
So less than 1 year with some notable successes and we’re back to Brexit FC. Fuck me the mentality of this club. Errr...no. Darnborough has a record of bringing in overseas players AND he has a good knowledge of the UK market. You need both - the problem under Dublin was that the UK market was left to Neil and Schumacher who had/have a limited knowledge and tended to go for players they already knew. I agree, give him a chance Good luck to him I say
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Post by baconburger on Jun 4, 2024 16:11:47 GMT
Some strange logic going on there. Firstly Junior was a Summer signing at the end of August that seemed to depend on us selling Tymon for some irrational reason. I'm not sure what Bidace would have had to do with Jared, making the deals wasn't his role, identifying the players was. RM was the man who was responsible for tying up the deals, JD was not a negotiator of transfers deals. Sorry, yes you are right but it did drag on and he was the only young English player brought in and I'm not sure he was a Jared suggestion as he was on the wish list before he started working for us. We also brought in Hoever in his position which seems to indicate that it wasn't going to happen. I fail to see what Tymon had to do with it as they play on different sides and again his replacement, or initially understudy, was another Neil suggestion. I know he wasn't involved in final negotiations or as you say tying things up but I'm sure Jared had a role in trying to persuade them to talk to us. The fact that many of our home bred transfers were ones that appear to be Neil's suggestions, I do wonder if there was a lack of home grown talent on Jared's list and the manager got frustrated by that and sorted it out himself. Also whilst he wouldn't have been involved in the final negotiations I feel part of his remit was to test the water and see how possible it would be for a transfer to happen both with the parent club and the player's agent. I don't think he presents a list of names from his database and then sits back during the transfer window doing nothing. There is plenty of reference to the new guy having good contacts and being successful at bringing players in to Hull. The two loans of Carvalho and Delap were far higher profile than any loans we made. I know we wouldn't have been in for Delap but I'm sure other clubs were and I'm sure there were other names who chose elsewhere rather than Stoke. And to be honest January was a joke. A goal keeper we'd tried to get before and yet again on loan, two of Schumacher's old players and no left back. What was Jared x from September to December. Some of his players were great I agree but all of that were were foreign. I really don’t care where they came from the British market is extremely poor value. The loans you speak of what are they doing for Hull moving forward. I’d expect the HoR to provide a list of favourable targets with player and contract situation and whether they’d be interested in a move to Stoke not to do the SD/TD/DoF’s job for him. Manager/HC have been pandered to by bringing in players they know but not usually for any significant outlay. I really don’t know why you’d start out on such a path if you were going to give it up as a bad job after less than a year.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Jun 4, 2024 17:07:05 GMT
You mentioned Patrick Burger twice, he wasn't that bad 😉🤣 ! Paul Williams for me was TP's worst aquasition, it was like we'd signed a heavyweight boxer! Cameron Jerome played his part in our early prem years. Id say Jon Parkin wasnt a bad signing either
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Post by silsdenstokie on Jun 4, 2024 17:09:20 GMT
Jared's recruitment model hasn't been given a fair chance to succeed. Less than a year on with some notable successes and we're returning to a narrow focus that has been maybe coincidentally (I don't think so) very similar to what it had been since we got relegated. This club doesn't half piss me off. You're definitely related to BO Regardless of what he says, harsh to bring personal hygeine into it 😉
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Post by anchorman on Jun 4, 2024 18:46:23 GMT
I agree completely. Solid. You on about Darnbrough? Or Benjis spelling and grammar? Absolutely…a comer or two wouldn’t go amiss tbh!
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 4, 2024 20:07:24 GMT
Seems a good signing to me.
He has the necessary experience and contacts.
He has a good base to build from with a talented core of young players, unlike every other season since relegation.
A key issue for me in signing players is not just talent, but getting players who are committed to the club, which loans aren't, and have the right character/attitude. Pulis was sound when he signed players and signed few wasters, apart from that MF guy we had to buy to get Crouch. Since Pulis we have signed loads of wasters lacking commitment apart from a few we brought in last summer. But if you sign 19 players, odds are you will sign a few good ones!
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Post by J-Roar on Jun 4, 2024 20:20:45 GMT
Errr...no. Darnborough has a record of bringing in overseas players AND he has a good knowledge of the UK market. You need both - the problem under Dublin was that the UK market was left to Neil and Schumacher who had/have a limited knowledge and tended to go for players they already knew. I agree, give him a chance Good luck to him I say Fuck that. Cry like babies and say the end of the world is nigh. Then furiously backtrack.
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Post by clarkeda on Jun 5, 2024 5:57:14 GMT
I agree, give him a chance Good luck to him I say Fuck that. Cry like babies and say the end of the world is nigh. Then furiously backtrack. I’ll say it again, with the amount of focus on reliance on recruitment. I don’t understand how there isn’t a way to keep both him and Jared. Especially when they will be on a fraction of a players wage you’d imagine.
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