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Post by emretezzy on Apr 24, 2024 9:29:40 GMT
I have come down on the side of giving him next year.
That does have a caveat of seeing if S.Cooper would be up for coming.
Massive summer incoming.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 24, 2024 9:40:39 GMT
I have come down on the side of giving him next year. That does have a caveat of seeing if S.Cooper would be up for coming. Massive summer incoming. If the timing had fallen right i think I'd have rather had Cooper in all honesty. However asked now I'd actually stick with Schumacher. In hindsight when this season is done and dusted we'll start to view what Schumacher has managed to achieve more favorably. I accept Schumacher has had help and the Walters appointment gave him a massive boost. But Schumacher, with no experience of the situation he walked into has shown great character. He's come through a very tense period and bar a few fuck ups has kept the ship afloat and everything relatively calm. He may well be right appointment moving forward... |
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Apr 24, 2024 9:59:06 GMT
I have come down on the side of giving him next year. That does have a caveat of seeing if S.Cooper would be up for coming. Massive summer incoming. If the timing had fallen right i think I'd have rather had Cooper in all honesty. However asked now I'd actually stick with Schumacher. In hindsight when this season is done and dusted we'll start to view what Schumacher has managed to achieve more favorably. I accept Schumacher has had help and the Walters appointment gave him a massive boost. But Schumacher, with no experience of the situation he walked into has shown great character. He's come through a very tense period and bar a few fuck ups has kept the ship afloat and everything relatively calm. He may well be right appointment moving forward... Agree. No secret we've struggled to score goals for far too long now. However, we have started to create more chances under him in my view. Credit to him, if what he says is true is Mmaee, he's called out bad behaviour, wants us to train with intensity which can only help moving forward. |
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Post by baconburger on Apr 24, 2024 10:16:12 GMT
You might be right in that the people hiring him thought we were just underperforming and a new manager would just get the team performing at the higher level they were capable of. If they thought that they were wrong - both Neil and Schumacher are getting what they can out of this squad and that squad is a bottom half Championship side that is perectly capable of getting relegated - and still could. When we sacked Neil I thought we would be in for a relegation battle and that Schumacher was a high risk appointment for that role. He's actually doing ok and for me, if not others, he will have done his job if we avoid relegation. I suspect those wanting rid of Schumacher also thought we are capable of a top half finish and that a good/better manager would have got us there so in those terms he's failed. I think a good/better manager would have seen us safe earlier but I just don't think this squad is top half material. This squad is what happens when a manager brings his mate in to sign 20 players in a scattergun approach. Said manager then fails to piece it all together and creates a team with no consistent strategy to games that ends up with no confidence. That manager is then sacked. New manager has to come in and try and deal with not only trying to get a tune out of the mess he's inherited but also manage the fallouts, the bad behaviour and the poor morale. As is looking likely, if Schumacher steers us to a 17th place finish, he's done a very decent job. He probably wasn't the right manager for the very difficult situation we were in in all fairness. But this time its starting to look like JC has had a wild punt of his come off for once. I see bright things ahead personally. I reckon we got a good one 🙏 He obviously wasn't the right man if you were trying to employ a firefighter but doing that would have been extremely short-termist. I think they (Coates/Martin) saw what I saw and thought a team that was incapable of scoring goals needed someone who got their team scoring. In hindsight it didn't work as he was not able to get the team scoring at a significantly higher rate than the last bloke. However I think both of them were hampered by a squad bereft of goalscorers and am still keen to see what Schu can do with hopefully some better tools provided. The Plymouth game was the most enjoyable for a long time and I'm hoping for more of that style of football executed by some players with a better instinct and track record of goals to add to the successes of this season which there have been quite a few despite what a god awful season it's been. |
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Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 24, 2024 11:01:07 GMT
How many more of these threads? Getting boring now.BIN BIN
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 24, 2024 11:03:25 GMT
How many more of these threads? Getting boring now.BIN BIN Opinions eh? I find people's thoughts on this quite interesting. Its a pretty important subject |
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Post by stokesupporter on Apr 24, 2024 11:27:30 GMT
So far I'm happy with his contribution. Came during a difficult era and has done a good job considering the team and circumstances he was given. He's also learned a lot during this process and shown that he's not a one trick pony like so many before him.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 24, 2024 11:27:55 GMT
How many more of these threads? Getting boring now.BIN BIN I disagree. I find it interesting to watch people's opinions evolve over time. Which I have noticed a lot in terms of the Schumacher question. Surely this is what we should be discussing on a stoke city message board đź‘Ť |
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Post by thornestein on Apr 24, 2024 11:29:30 GMT
How many more of these threads? Getting boring now.BIN BIN Opinions eh? I find people's thoughts on this quite interesting. Its a pretty important subject the only ones that want it binned just hate others having an opinion on their messiah |
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 24, 2024 21:41:37 GMT
Opinions eh? I find people's thoughts on this quite interesting. Its a pretty important subject the only ones that want it binned just hate others having an opinion on their messiah He’s not the Messiah. He’s a very naughty boy. |
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Post by jebbstuart on Apr 24, 2024 21:46:57 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season.
He has not improved the results or performances to a degree that he can take us forward to challenge for a play off place. SJW appears and then things started improving perhaps we are starting to sort the top of the club out but feel we need a manager with more tactical acumen than what we have. Even if we finish in 17th position its been another woeful underachieving season. nothing to celebrate here, beating Plymouth and getting to 50 points should be a bare minimum, much work to be done.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 25, 2024 7:48:59 GMT
Stoke fans bleating on about tactics... Most should stick to the mints  |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 25, 2024 8:01:09 GMT
AN was sacked because we were in danger of going down,SS was brought in to stop this happening,which looks like he has managed to do.
So it's job done,,now we need to back him so he can get us challenging at the top end of the table.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 25, 2024 8:09:44 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season. He has not improved the results or performances to a degree that he can take us forward to challenge for a play off place. SJW appears and then things started improving perhaps we are starting to sort the top of the club out but feel we need a manager with more tactical acumen than what we have. Even if we finish in 17th position its been another woeful underachieving season. nothing to celebrate here, beating Plymouth and getting to 50 points should be a bare minimum, much work to be done. Managers do not turn poor teams into good ones - the best any manager can do is to get the best out of what they have got. You are damning Schumacher because he's not done what no manager could do - turn a side only just good enough to avoid relegation into one that was capable of a comfortable mid table/top half finish. That was never going to happen. Just about surviving this season would be an achievement, not a failure. Relegation would be a failure. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 25, 2024 8:12:30 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season. He has not improved the results or performances to a degree that he can take us forward to challenge for a play off place. SJW appears and then things started improving perhaps we are starting to sort the top of the club out but feel we need a manager with more tactical acumen than what we have. Even if we finish in 17th position its been another woeful underachieving season. nothing to celebrate here, beating Plymouth and getting to 50 points should be a bare minimum, much work to be done. It has been a terrible season to add to the last 6. Is it Schumachers fault though? Is it reasonable to have expected him to come in to ANs mess, sort it all out in a few weeks and expect a top 10 finish? What other manager should we have brought in to achieve that aim? And if we are to sack him now who would you like to bring in? Personally I think he's shown some character to deal with a very volatile situation with morale on the floor, players kicking off, fans unhappy etc. He looks to have seen us safe and some of the football has been very refreshing. He's made mistakes that he'll hopefully have learnt from which gives him new experience. Experience that moves these young upcoming coaches into a different arena where they now have these experiences under their belts. We should stick with him in my view. He's definitely got something about him đź‘Ť |
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 25, 2024 9:35:37 GMT
I have come down on the side of giving him next year. That does have a caveat of seeing if S.Cooper would be up for coming. Massive summer incoming. That would end well. Sneaking around asking managers if they want to take a job that isn’t vacant. Hopefully the club has more class than that. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 25, 2024 9:37:02 GMT
How many more of these threads? Getting boring now.BIN BIN The title makes the topic pretty clear fella just don't click on it  |
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 25, 2024 9:40:57 GMT
I have come down on the side of giving him next year. That does have a caveat of seeing if S.Cooper would be up for coming. Massive summer incoming. If the timing had fallen right i think I'd have rather had Cooper in all honesty. However asked now I'd actually stick with Schumacher. In hindsight when this season is done and dusted we'll start to view what Schumacher has managed to achieve more favorably. I accept Schumacher has had help and the Walters appointment gave him a massive boost. But Schumacher, with no experience of the situation he walked into has shown great character. He's come through a very tense period and bar a few fuck ups has kept the ship afloat and everything relatively calm. He may well be right appointment moving forward... Cooper wouldn't have come here. Just like Potter he knows there will be a more high profile less risky offer from someone soon. No rush while they are being paid compensation which they will lose once they get employed by another club. |
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Post by thornestein on Apr 25, 2024 9:43:25 GMT
I have come down on the side of giving him next year. That does have a caveat of seeing if S.Cooper would be up for coming. Massive summer incoming. That would end well. Sneaking around asking managers if they want to take a job that isn’t vacant. Hopefully the club has more class than that. happens a lot in football , with players also , no big deal |
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 25, 2024 9:46:02 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season. He has not improved the results or performances to a degree that he can take us forward to challenge for a play off place. SJW appears and then things started improving perhaps we are starting to sort the top of the club out but feel we need a manager with more tactical acumen than what we have. Even if we finish in 17th position its been another woeful underachieving season. nothing to celebrate here, beating Plymouth and getting to 50 points should be a bare minimum, much work to be done. Or you could say he disciplined Mmaee, rode the storm and proved to the players that he was in charge, resulting in a better attitude to training and fitness. Perhaps Walters made that clear to the players too but I think SS set a benchmark over Mmaee and gained respect. Not many managers would suspend probably the best forward at the club when the team are struggling for goals. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 25, 2024 10:12:12 GMT
This squad is what happens when a manager brings his mate in to sign 20 players in a scattergun approach. Said manager then fails to piece it all together and creates a team with no consistent strategy to games that ends up with no confidence. That manager is then sacked. New manager has to come in and try and deal with not only trying to get a tune out of the mess he's inherited but also manage the fallouts, the bad behaviour and the poor morale. As is looking likely, if Schumacher steers us to a 17th place finish, he's done a very decent job. He probably wasn't the right manager for the very difficult situation we were in in all fairness. But this time its starting to look like JC has had a wild punt of his come off for once. I see bright things ahead personally. I reckon we got a good one 🙏 He obviously wasn't the right man if you were trying to employ a firefighter but doing that would have been extremely short-termist. I think they (Coates/Martin) saw what I saw and thought a team that was incapable of scoring goals needed someone who got their team scoring. In hindsight it didn't work as he was not able to get the team scoring at a significantly higher rate than the last bloke. However I think both of them were hampered by a squad bereft of goalscorers and am still keen to see what Schu can do with hopefully some better tools provided. The Plymouth game was the most enjoyable for a long time and I'm hoping for more of that style of football executed by some players with a better instinct and track record of goals to add to the successes of this season which there have been quite a few despite what a god awful season it's been. If you are fighting a fire you worry about putting the fire out, not wasting your time worrying about what curtains will go with your new colour scheme. If you need a firefighter by definition you need a short termist. Schumacher had some initial success building on the pragmatism introduced by Gallagher but when he went whole hog for his more attacking style the wheels fell off and we ended up in the relegation zone so, as you say, he went more pragmatic and as a result we have a decent chance of staying up. Are you saying he should have carried on playing entertaining football for the sake of it even if it increased the odds of us going down? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 10:25:01 GMT
He steadied a sinking ship utilising a pretty shit squad with huge holes in it, that'll do me. We now have (another) summer of clearing dead wood but I look forward to seeing what a true SS squad looks like.
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Post by Eggybread on Apr 25, 2024 11:21:47 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season. He has not improved the results or performances to a degree that he can take us forward to challenge for a play off place. SJW appears and then things started improving perhaps we are starting to sort the top of the club out but feel we need a manager with more tactical acumen than what we have. Even if we finish in 17th position its been another woeful underachieving season. nothing to celebrate here, beating Plymouth and getting to 50 points should be a bare minimum, much work to be done. Get in the sea.Pathetic post imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 11:54:56 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season. He has not improved the results or performances to a degree that he can take us forward to challenge for a play off place. SJW appears and then things started improving perhaps we are starting to sort the top of the club out but feel we need a manager with more tactical acumen than what we have. Even if we finish in 17th position its been another woeful underachieving season. nothing to celebrate here, beating Plymouth and getting to 50 points should be a bare minimum, much work to be done. Finishing 17th or whatever can be attribruted for the most part to his predecessor who built a shite squad with his cockney mate and dragged us into the bottom 3 but don't let that get in the way of your arguement. |
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Post by Block 26 on Apr 25, 2024 12:19:36 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season. He has not improved the results or performances to a degree that he can take us forward to challenge for a play off place. SJW appears and then things started improving perhaps we are starting to sort the top of the club out but feel we need a manager with more tactical acumen than what we have. Even if we finish in 17th position its been another woeful underachieving season. nothing to celebrate here, beating Plymouth and getting to 50 points should be a bare minimum, much work to be done. Managers do not turn poor teams into good ones - the best any manager can do is to get the best out of what they have got. You are damning Schumacher because he's not done what no manager could do - turn a side only just good enough to avoid relegation into one that was capable of a comfortable mid table/top half finish. That was never going to happen. Just about surviving this season would be an achievement, not a failure. Relegation would be a failure. Cooper at Forrest, McCann at Doncaster… |
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Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 12:44:55 GMT
He obviously wasn't the right man if you were trying to employ a firefighter but doing that would have been extremely short-termist. I think they (Coates/Martin) saw what I saw and thought a team that was incapable of scoring goals needed someone who got their team scoring. In hindsight it didn't work as he was not able to get the team scoring at a significantly higher rate than the last bloke. However I think both of them were hampered by a squad bereft of goalscorers and am still keen to see what Schu can do with hopefully some better tools provided. The Plymouth game was the most enjoyable for a long time and I'm hoping for more of that style of football executed by some players with a better instinct and track record of goals to add to the successes of this season which there have been quite a few despite what a god awful season it's been. If you are fighting a fire you worry about putting the fire out, not wasting your time worrying about what curtains will go with your new colour scheme. If you need a firefighter by definition you need a short termist. Schumacher had some initial success building on the pragmatism introduced by Gallagher but when he went whole hog for his more attacking style the wheels fell off and we ended up in the relegation zone so, as you say, he went more pragmatic and as a result we have a decent chance of staying up. Are you saying he should have carried on playing entertaining football for the sake of it even if it increased the odds of us going down? I'm not saying what he should have done I'm saying what he would have done if he'd stuck to his rhetoric when appointed. Whether he went more pragmatic voluntarily or was told to do so I have my doubts. I don't think he was ever in danger of being a convert. There wasn't a lot of pride in our performances in his interviews after we'd picked up points with the attritional brand of football adopted. It's going to be interesting going forward as to whether the philosophies of him and Walters align. I've no idea what Walters' football philosophies are, I can make an assumption they're more pragmatic but it's based on association and could be miles wide of the mark as easily as it could be bob on. I'm glad he reverted to what he believes in vs Plymouth. It gave me some hope that next season might be better and not just an exercise in grinding out points from the offset. It was something you'd never have got from a firefighter. Moving forward he needs some better tools to make what he believes in more effective, the fact that quite a few players we already have improved under his coaching is to me an indication he's good the central purpose of his job. It's upto the recruitment team to get him what he needs, he should have an input into that but not anything close to control. |
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Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 12:49:09 GMT
Managers do not turn poor teams into good ones - the best any manager can do is to get the best out of what they have got. You are damning Schumacher because he's not done what no manager could do - turn a side only just good enough to avoid relegation into one that was capable of a comfortable mid table/top half finish. That was never going to happen. Just about surviving this season would be an achievement, not a failure. Relegation would be a failure. Cooper at Forrest, McCann at Doncaster… Have they only ever managed one season or is it something they do on a consistent basis? |
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 25, 2024 13:22:00 GMT
Managers do not turn poor teams into good ones - the best any manager can do is to get the best out of what they have got. You are damning Schumacher because he's not done what no manager could do - turn a side only just good enough to avoid relegation into one that was capable of a comfortable mid table/top half finish. That was never going to happen. Just about surviving this season would be an achievement, not a failure. Relegation would be a failure. Cooper at Forrest, McCann at Doncaster… The team/squad that Cooper inherited at Forest was a good one that was underachieving under Houghton who had taken over a squad that had had a bad start to the season, having just missed out on the play offs the previous season. That season they finished 17th under Houghton who was sacked after losing the first five matches. Cooper came in and got them promoted via the playoffs in what I consider one of the luckiest runs to the playoffs when lunch just seemed to run with them. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 25, 2024 14:27:40 GMT
The posters all in support and saying they want him to continue. Answer this question:
Do you see Shumacher taking us to the Premier League next season or the season after?
I dont care about whats he's done this past season and just escaping relegation. He did help Plymouth romp to the League 1 title last season so he can get promotion, but I just cant see him doing the same in the Championship based upon what Ive seen.
We have won a few games, playing some nice football along the way - but even if he signed 15 new players in the summer I just cant see him taking us to the promised land.
Most of the games we won playing counter-attacking football away from home with less than 50% possession. We havent dominated, or gone on any long run of 3-4 wins in a row.
I quite like the guy and his brand of football, but we seem destined to be Championship mid-table under him. Unless Im seriously missing something???
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Post by Gob Bluth on Apr 25, 2024 15:12:00 GMT
How much turn over does he want and how much will it cost? He’s not got enough credit for us to go on a big spending spree. If he thinks he can do it on the cheap then he can stay and I’ll let him deliver a MON, tread-water season to meet FFP restrictions.
Blindly backing an underperforming manager in the summer has happened too many times now and if it happens again my patience with Jon Coates will really start to run out. If SS is backed and it fails JC needs to be moved away from making decisions and he needs to pay someone to make these calls.
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