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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 8:31:17 GMT
Some sort of cottage industry? Everywhere I ever worked there were more bosses than you could shake a stick at. Were you a drummer? All manner of things and the only one where it seemed there weren’t far too many chiefs and not enough Indians was farming.
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Post by tuum on Aug 26, 2024 8:41:28 GMT
Which is fair enough. That tends to be human nature. In that scenario, JC holds the cards. He can back super Jon or he can back SS. Again, human nature would tend to backing super Jon. Sacking SJW would imply that JC was at fault for appointing super Jon in the first place. Should any of this happen, JC can't win. He is going to get blamed by a significant minority of our support either way. For me, the bulk of any non-performance on the pitch lies with the manager. He selects the team, he chooses the tactics. If hasn't got 1-2 of his preferred players that is no excuse for sulking or spitting the dummy out. He works with what he has...and SS has enough to get us in mid-table for now. p. s. I am not saying SS has spat his dummy out I am just making a general point about all managers. If I had to put a number on it. 80-90% of how we perform is down to the manager. 10-20% (and I am being generous here) is down to the off field decisions. Clearly, this % could be more if the club has told the manager there is no money to buy, or the relationships within are extremely toxic but, as far as I know, this is not the case at Stoke. So, as far as I am concerned our poor performances to date lie at SS's door not SJW or JC. I have more faith in SS than many so I hope to see an upturn in fortunes and then he can bask in all the glory. You don’t seem to see the problem that if there isn’t an alignment of philosophy on the game then the one of the appointments is a bad appointment and he made one two months after the other. Why would you think that he’d done such a weird thing? Because it’s consistent with his previous managerial appointments lurching wildly between management styles and philosophy. Fast to slow, dinosaur to progressive. It’s like the man has no view on the game whatsoever other than wanting to win and challenge for promotion. The one consistent presence shows no consistency of thought or ability to commit to a blueprint and stick to it. I agree that we should have a philosophy/blueprint as to how we operate. I see the "problem" but I just don't perceive it to be as big as others on here believe. Successive managers have had plenty of resources to be competitive (not promotion) on their own terms and have failed miserably...that has very little to do with joined up thinking or long term philosophies. Everyone of them has failed to get a tune out of the players at their disposal. Personally, I think it is the individual manager's who have failed to instill their own philosophies. They have tended to worry too much about the opposition and have tinkered unnecessarily. All of them have over-thought and perhaps not stuck with their beliefs for fear of losing or becoming a figure of hate. There have been signs of recovery in the past only for the manager to abandon his positive approach. Maybe the manager's just haven't been very good or the job is clearly too big for them? People can blame JC for that if they want, although personally I think any managerial appointment always carries a high risk. I also have much lower expectations than most people. I am not that arsed about the Premier League. Of course, I would like us to get promoted but I am ok with a top half finish in the championship. I am not a happy clapper but I am definitely in the 'be careful what you wish for' camp with regards to JC.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 26, 2024 8:51:54 GMT
starting eleven was awful and the finishing eleven is without doubt the worst set up I have ever come across in decades of watching Stoke I've read this exact opinion hundreds of times on here since we came down, you'd think we'd be a national league team by now. It isn’t the same. Saturday was a new low tactically. Clear the set up was wrong after 10 minutes but subs came late and in a bewildering fashion Gibson was the only outfield player who ended in the position he started. That is unprecedented and better defined as chaos. How can we build momentum if we are changing every 5 minutes?
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 9:03:56 GMT
I've read this exact opinion hundreds of times on here since we came down, you'd think we'd be a national league team by now. It isn’t the same. Saturday was a new low tactically. Clear the set up was wrong after 10 minutes but subs came late and in a bewildering fashion Gibson was the only outfield player who ended in the position he started. That is unprecedented and better defined as chaos. How can we build momentum if we are changing every 5 minutes? The subs came too late and changing every 5 minutes seems a little contradictory.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 26, 2024 10:27:49 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 26, 2024 10:30:25 GMT
He says Koumas was making runs and no one was prepared to pass the ball forwards, yet Manhoef did exactly that for his goal as did Laurent when he hit the post......
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Post by Wizbit on Aug 26, 2024 10:33:34 GMT
5 3 2 was definitely a disaster, 4 1 2 3 is what I think we should be doing we look. Much better and much more dynamic when we do that.... We will get beat every now and again doing it but he should push thru the bad ones we have a young squad now and swapping everyother week will not help them at all... Stick with it and I'm convinced we will be rewarded with good performances more often than not
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Post by HarryTheHat on Aug 26, 2024 10:46:45 GMT
SS will get the boot and SJW will step up to take his job. This was a publicity stunt from day one. I don’t blame either bloke for taking the job. We are an old fashioned, unpopular club, under achieving club. That is one of the main reasons we can not attract good players. and probably bring back TP in the Rudge role
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Post by ChesterStokie on Aug 26, 2024 10:51:45 GMT
Not too bad an analysis by Pejic’s usual rather poor standard of punditry. BUT the reality is Schuey tried something different up front, ie Koumas in the middle which no one saw coming at all, and it actually worked a treat. Obviously some teething problems with it but once the players get used to it it could be a game-changer for us. Chill.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Aug 26, 2024 11:00:21 GMT
Pejic was pretty scathing on RS after the match. Pretty much disagreed with everything Schu said in his aftermatch interview.
Says it as he sees it does Pej
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Post by kaney78 on Aug 26, 2024 11:11:28 GMT
Pejic was pretty scathing on RS after the match. Pretty much disagreed with everything Schu said in his aftermatch interview. Says it as he sees it does Pej I listened to praise and grumble for the first time in a long while and did notice that.He doesn't come across as much of a fan of SS to me lol
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2024 11:14:43 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo.
Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie).
Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch.
The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess.
We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI.
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Post by march4 on Aug 26, 2024 11:16:45 GMT
I wish we'd got a 21 year old Pej to play left back now!
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 11:17:43 GMT
SS will get the boot and SJW will step up to take his job. This was a publicity stunt from day one. I don’t blame either bloke for taking the job. We are an old fashioned, unpopular club, under achieving club. That is one of the main reasons we can not attract good players. I agree with the jist of that. I don't expect it to pan out that way. I think Walters will keep his role (maybe stepping in temporarily) then appoint a HC that will reveal far more about his footballing principals than we know at this time. He's (SS) useful cover at the moment.
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Post by thornestein on Aug 26, 2024 11:19:19 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo. Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie). Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch. The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess. We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI. it wasn’t good keeping for their first , a bit of criticism for that is fine , but ppl are going over the top on him
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2024 11:21:41 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo. Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie). Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch. The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess. We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI. it wasn’t good keeping for their first , a bit of criticism for that is fine , but ppl are going over the top on him He did nothing wrong.
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Post by thornestein on Aug 26, 2024 11:22:37 GMT
it wasn’t good keeping for their first , a bit of criticism for that is fine , but ppl are going over the top on him He did nothing wrong. in your opinion, for me he should have done better
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 26, 2024 11:23:23 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo. Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie). Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch. The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess. We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI. The second half shot map said it all. The Koumas post and Baker's 60-yarder, while West Brom basically said 'is that all you've got?' Normally it washes over me after sitting through the last 5 years but I was really angry well into Saturday night as it started to dawn that we may be in for another lost season!
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Post by gcamoutsideboot on Aug 26, 2024 11:24:58 GMT
it wasn’t good keeping for their first , a bit of criticism for that is fine , but ppl are going over the top on him He did nothing wrong. thank you!!! Nothing wrong with our keeper. It's the mess in front of him.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 11:25:45 GMT
in your opinion, for me he should have done better Like being a few inches taller?
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Post by thornestein on Aug 26, 2024 11:26:47 GMT
in your opinion, for me he should have done better Like being a few inches taller? i don’t think height as anything do with it
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2024 11:33:24 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo. Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie). Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch. The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess. We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI. The second half shot map said it all. The Koumas post and Baker's 60-yarder, while West Brom basically said 'is that all you've got?' Normally it washes over me after sitting through the last 5 years but I was really angry well into Saturday night as it started to dawn that we may be in for another lost season! I’ve seen some people say they were fine with the first half too. We were lucky not to be two down and then scored massively against the run of play. It was terrible. We showed nothing bar the goal. And just didn’t lay a glove on them. The spaces between everyone were the most telling thing imo. I know I hate him but the second goal Laurent has to close the ball down but they have it in between where Laurent and Junior should be but neither of them know what the fuck they’re doing. So no one goes to shut it down. They switch and 15 seconds later goal. And not one Stoke player in between Laurent not doing his job and the goal does their job either. So passive. I thought it was an absolute horror show.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 11:38:12 GMT
Like being a few inches taller? i don’t think height as anything do with it Bigger keeper gets something on that assist ball for me.
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Post by mamathestriker on Aug 26, 2024 11:38:53 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo. Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie). Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch. The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess. We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI. As much as Saturday was on SS (it was), we've got 3 or 4 first team coaches, yet apart from Coventry first half, have looked poorly coached. I genuinely think Walters wouldn't waste any time if things don't work out with SS.
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Post by cheadlestokie on Aug 26, 2024 11:39:19 GMT
I have read Pejic's piece in the Sentinel and have to say it largely mirrors my thoughts after the game.I could not understand how we started.
People have been blaming Bocat but his wide man who he would take as a proper left back fell to the responsibility of Gooch. SS said they had worked on that all week and how the winger liked to attack and then dink balls to the far post. How did he ever expect Gooch to cope due to his lack of speed off the mark and his general lack of pace.
Tchamadeu then tried to outmuscle Grant to stop him getting to the ball rather than simply react first to head the ball.
We were still into the game until we hit the post in the second half when the subs were made. I don't criticise SS for making subs but the way they were put on the pitch was so disorganised.
He pulled Gooch from the left to right back for instance and then for the rest of the time Manhoef was on the pitch he had to continually turn to Gooch to tell him where Gooch should be making his runs. Obviously not something they had been working on all week!
W Brom could not handle Koumas so he decide to take him away from where he was playing well and put Mmaee on.I thought Mmaee started ok but quickly that changed and Ennis came on to totally confuse the picture and players did not seem to know what was required from them.
Don't get me started on our midfield which was subbed in a quite shambloic way and whoever had the idea to put Moran wide right?!
When only two players end the match in the position they start it, and one of those being the keeper, you know something is wrong.
I hope SS calms down and plays the system he believes is right, playing those who he believes will do the job he requires and making subs for the right reasons and not just as a throw of the dice.
I hate criticism of Mangers/Coaches and especially after only three games but SS does seem by his actions that he is feeling the pressure and as I say he needs to take a deep breath, decide how he wants to play and live or die by his calm and calculated decisions.
I certainly hope he succeeds.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 11:41:34 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo. Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie). Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch. The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess. We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI. As much as Saturday was on SS (it was), we've got 3 or 4 first team coaches, yet apart from Coventry first half, have looked poorly coached. I genuinely think Walters wouldn't waste any time if things don't work out with SS. He won't be in any rush, having that patsy there keeps the spotlight off his own performance or lack thereof. Soon as he pulls the trigger and employs his own HC there's nowhere left to hide. His HC, his players, his HoR.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2024 11:50:34 GMT
Saturday was as bad a performance as we’ve seen since relegation imo. Totally disjointed mess that only Koumas and the goalie cannot be slated for (apart from people seem to have found away re the goalie). Off the ball no one had a clue where they were meant to be. A total failure of the coach. With the ball we were slow and ponderous. It was so painful to watch. The subs made no impact and they were never going to as they were thrown on in an unorganised mess. We got exactly what we deserved from selecting such a negative XI. As much as Saturday was on SS (it was), we've got 3 or 4 first team coaches, yet apart from Coventry first half, have looked poorly coached. I genuinely think Walters wouldn't waste any time if things don't work out with SS. I’ve said November all along and stick with that. Walters will throw him under the bus for sure. The issue there is that Walters is a clown too.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 11:56:39 GMT
As much as Saturday was on SS (it was), we've got 3 or 4 first team coaches, yet apart from Coventry first half, have looked poorly coached. I genuinely think Walters wouldn't waste any time if things don't work out with SS. I’ve said November all along and stick with that. Walters will throw him under the bus for sure. The issue there is that Walters is a clown too. It will depend where we are. He (JW) will probably ideally like another transfer window without to much scrutiny and criticism and Charlie will have that bit more experience then.
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Post by march4 on Aug 26, 2024 12:13:35 GMT
With managers. there comes a tipping point where it becomes obvious they're heading for the sack. This can happen days, weeks or even months before the axe actually falls but that is just delaying the inevitable. We could all see it happening for TP, Hughes, Rowett, Jones, MON and AN - for all of them it became a matter of when and not if. Our owners are traditionally loyal to their managers and have waited too long to dismiss some of those managers after the tipping point has been reached.
Are we close to the tipping point for our current manager? He might survive for a while yet, but when we look back, will this next few days be the point where we say it was obvious he wouldn't last for the long term? Or will the last week of the transfer window and improved performances at M'boro and Plymouth cement his position for years to come?
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Post by Fred Ferret on Aug 26, 2024 12:15:43 GMT
By his own design, SS made unfathomable choices and deserves criticism.
For me it is unpardonable to lose a home record 2nd game.
However, we were unlucky to end up with 2 goalpost shots. We need a performance and commonsense on Tuesday, to steady the ship.
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